Jump to content


  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by nyser1

  1. Just now, Winterfell is Burning said:

    Rhaenyra has no birthright to the throne. By birthright, the heir is the first born son, Aegon. That is the conflict, because Viserys chooses to do differently. By the system Viserys sets up- firstborn child inherits- then Rhaenys would the rightful queen in his place. 

    That's why, again, Viserys could have Rhaenyra as heir, he could marry Alicent and have sons with her, but not both. Both in real life and Westeros started for much less (Daemon Blackfyre got half the realm to join him because of a SWORD. A freakin' sword!).

    It's also why posters insisting that Otto is "purely paranoid" for thinking Alicent's sons are in danger  with Rhaenyra on the throne are talking non-sense. Even if Rhaenyra wanted nothing to do with it (and they didn't had much reasons to thrust her at that point), is easy to imagine someone on her side murdering them as a preventive measure or to gain favor, just like Tywin did with Rhaegar's kids without consulting Robert.

    People with that "Green=RIGHT!" mentality miss the point GRRM makes that war is an inevitability in a system where absolute power can be granted or removed just on the whims of one person or by who the parent(s) of said person is, or by, quite simply, murdering everyone else in your way. Both Greens and Blacks do horrible things not just because they're mostly horrible people (though they mostly are), but because they have a system that incentives them to do that to get or remain in power or to simply stay alive. 

    To further illustrate the point, Rhaenyra has three sons who are obviously bastards, so even if by some miracle the Dance of the Dragons didn't happen when Viserys died, it would happen at some point when she dies.

    Also people seem to miss that Jaehaerys, called the Wise not by accident, knowing the potential for conflict, calls for a Great Council because he knows the potential for conflict, so the solution is to give as much people as possible a voice (of course, it's not a democracy, but it's an improvement). Yet Viserys, who won the Iron Throne with a worse claim than Aegon had, never even entertains the thought of doing the same, because he's an idiot.


    Perhaps since they are his own children (was not the case with Jaehaerys) Viserys feels it's less controversial.

  2. 7 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

    I'm a bit surprised how lukewarm a lot of these reviews are.  I really enjoyed last night's episode.  I'm giving it a 9 out of 10.  It was almost a 10 from me, but I had to deduct a point from some of the subpar cgi that distracted from the dragon scenes and the boar scene.

    The show is taking GRRM's world a lot more seriously than the original show did and even without fan favorite characters like Tyrion and Arya, I'm still becoming invested in the characters the show has given us.

    Agreed, I liked the episode a lot too.

  3. On 6/6/2022 at 6:15 PM, Odej said:

    I've always believed that Jon would be too busy involved with his return from the dead, conflicts at the Wall and the succession at Winterfell to turn his eyes to the war between Dany and Aegon, but thinking about it, while Jon is resolving these issues Dany and Aegon also have a lot to sort out before a family reunion.

    Aegon is still campaigning for war against Tommem and even if the Lannisters aren't in the best shape they're not really finished to lose quickly, the boy has a long way to go. Daenerys is across the sea with the Dothraki, her dragons are unpredictable, Meereen is at war, Victarion, Marwyn and Tyrion are on their way to her and she has a lot to fix before she packs up and leaves. Its hard for me to believe she will have significant actions in Westeros in TWOW.

    So when Aegon and Daenerys finally come to blows it is possible Winterfell already has a new stark lord and Jon knows who his parents are, so when his allegally brother and aunt seek allies for the war between them Jon's feeling may not just be "oh shit, another fight for the throne, who do I support" but also "damn, my relatives are fighting, what do I do?"

    Yeah, Jon is a Stark at is heart but we don't know how his mind will come back after a season on the other side/ghost's head. In addition to, being murdered by his companions and having to deal with it after the resurrection, the possible return of a brother who he thought he was dead, the conflict between the freefolk and the North, Winterfell succession issue and finding out that the man he most admired and loved is not actually his father are things the mess with a teenager's head.

    I don't buy the "dark Jon". I can see him having a darker side particularly if resurrected by the Lord of Light. But I think he will retain his memory and be more of a figure of justice and balance than evil or cruelty.

  4. In fairness, nobody "knew" of Joffrey as monstrous outside his inner circle because he had been the pampered, pompous, protected prince all of his life hidden behind Lannister Guardsmen. He did not have any authority, although the few instances where we see him give orders (to Sandor, to Mycah) it's clear who and what he is.

    Once he is crowned, he is still hiding in the Red Keep. The first time he leaves to see Myrcella off - we all know how that went. The incidents afterwards ie with the crossbow don't help. They do see him as a monster.

  5. Come the death of Robert, Renly on the throne was the best option for the longevity of the realm & most of our protagonists. 

    It's amazing how many people are angered by this topic - a Renly lives scenario is quite fascinating.

  6. I always held the opinion that Tyrion was viewed as disposable asset  (or to Tywin/Cersei, perceived/liability) who was a pawn to the real players. Even as he tries to prove them wrong, they still position him as such.


    Ex - for the Targaryens, he could be paraded as a gift to either hold hostage or execute (revenge) or to try to get rally support against his own family.

    For Baelish - scapegoat for his political scheming.

    For Varys - same as for the Targaryens, but also to cover his own behind with the incumbents.

    For Tywin - to stamp his name where useful, to stamp the blame for failures.

  7. 7 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

    I don't think it is more obvious than, say, in ASoIaF where there are also clear villains and clear heroes. Even if not all the Lannisters are thugs, they are mostly villains, especially if you consider the politics of the house as a whole. Then even Tyrion is a villain, considering he faithfully serves Joffrey as Acting Hand and Master of Coin until he is arrested.

    And within the setting it is quite clear the Blacks have the moral highground because Rhaenyra is the chosen heir, her family are the attacked party, and many of the people supporting her take up arms to defend her rights ... and not the help the ambitious Green cabal at court to seize power.

    But I'd not say all Greens are bad guys or unsympathetic - Larys Strong is quite an interesting character, Ser Perkin the Flea is fun, Grand Maester Orwyle is sympathetic, and Ser Tyland Lannister is even a tragic hero of sorts.

    And among the Green Targaryens you have Daeron the Daring and Helaena as sympathetic characters - although the former also commands and personally commits atrocities at Bitterbridge.

    I don't think any of the Targaryens during the Dance were 'insane'. Just cruel and stupid. Rhaenyra's sanity never cracks, she just makes some bad choices when appointing/trusting people and she is too weak when she should have been strong (during the riots she should have mounted Syrax to defend the Dragonpit). But she never descends into insanity. And neither do Aegon II or Aemond - although Daemon certainly seems to have a mental breakdown when he throws away his life.

    Rhaenyra is very much based on Catelyn, it seems. She is very much motivated by the desire to protect her sons, just like Cat wants to protect her children. And while Luke's death throws her in the throes of a deep depression, the loss of Jace shakes her out of that - like Bran's fall nearly broke Catelyn but the second attempt on his and her life snapped her out of her depression.

    There is, of course, the difference that Rhaenyra is a pretender and ruler in her own right, but she has nothing in common with Cersei who wants to steal and usurp power and, eventually, to rule in perpetuity in the name of her minor son. We also have no indication that Rhaenyra ever plotted or schemed to destroy or murder the people she may have perceived as rivals prior to the Dance - unlike Cersei who plotted to destroy Robert, Robert's brothers, and Margaery. And even afterwards she didn't kill Alicent and Helaena - Cersei most definitely would have killed Stannis and Shireen and Renly if she had ever gotten hold of them.

    When Rhaenyra rages and commands the arrest of Addam Velaryon and subsequently the execution of Nettles this is very much another version, one assumes, of Aerys II's decision to demand the heads of both Robert and Ned after he had just executed Brandon and Rickard. If that's the case, though, then the Rhaenyra parallel might be seen as foreshadowing to the detailed and complete version of events at Aerys' court - namely, that Aerys II, like Rhaenyra (who acted the way she did because she was pushed by her loyal advisers and, especially, the lies of Mysaria), ended up sending that raven to Jon Arryn not so much because he was 'mad' but rather because certain people at court painted a picture that fueled his paranoia to the extreme - like it was with Rhaenyra.

    In Rhaenyra's case we mustn't forget that the treason of the Two Betrayers caused a massive frenzy. At this time in the war Rhaenyra had been betrayed by her Hightower in-laws and half-siblings, by the Grand Maester, by her in-law/cousin-by-marriage, Borros Baratheon, by the Kingsguard (when the Arryk Cargyll tried to slay either her or her sons), and then, finally, by the Two Betrayers and other turncloaks. She had no reason to believe Addam and Nettles were more or less reliable than all the people she trusted who had already betrayed her.

    And throughout the entire war the spectre of dragons burning entire cities with tens or hundreds of thousands of people inside the walls was a very real danger. It was quite prominent in the minds of the Targaryens as well as the lords and smallfolk. That fear is what causes Rhaenyra and her people to view Nettles and Addam as potential traitors. And if you have the vivid image of a burning KL in your mind - which would have been there after the reports from Tumbleton reached court - it is very easy to overreact.

    In the end, though, it is quite clear that this was stupidity in the highest order. They needed the dragonriders to defend the city against the dragons of the Greens. If Nettles is dead and Addam arrested, who would stop Vermithor and Silverwing and Tessarion if they ever showed up at KL? Not to mention that technically Vhagar could have still teamed up with them.

    I do like Cregan Stark to a point, but he isn't that heroic or good a character. He wants to continue a war when it is already over, and he came rather late to the party, anyway, offering at best token support to Rhaenyra when she could have used his full strength. One also can seriously question his decision to not keep the Handship and run the Regency government of Aegon III. The rise of Unwin Peake certainly can be laid at his feet to a point. If he had stayed at court, that wouldn't have happened.

    Also, his insistence to punish the murderers of Aegon II is very hypocritical in light of the fact that he wanted to do the same thing and then some. Effectively, that's the action of a sulking child who wants to punish the people who 'stole his victory' by removing Aegon II when they did. But that actually saved lives and ended a war, so he should have Larys Strong and Corlys Velaryon rather than attacking them.

    Do you believe characters such as Cregan and his uncle serve a purpose for George in illustrating not only the different cultural of the North, but a “darker” and less Disney hero side than that which way Ned and Robb appear to be? Not saying that they are, but they can be seen in that light.

  8. After Jon kills Dany, Arya rescues Jon. The rest of Westeros heeds the letters Varys sent out (and later Sansa) about Jon and rally to his cause. Jon's forces smash the Unsullied and Dothraki and take King's Landing. Also, no Jaime rescuing Cersei mission. So we have:


    King on the Iron Throne: Jon/Aegon VI Targaryen, the White Wolf.

    His Council: Tyrion (Hand), Davos (Ships), Arya (Whispers), Jaime (LC of Kingsguard), Yohn Royce (War), Some reach lord (Coin), and someone else for Laws.


    Westerlands - Tyrion & Sansa Lannister

    North: Bran. If Bran cannot reproduce - Jon or Sansa/Tyrion's second son to take the Stark name.

    Stormlands - Gendry

    Riverlands - Edmure

    Reach - Introduce a Hightower

    Vale- Robin Arryn

    Dorne - Distant Martell relation.

    Iron Islands - Honestly prefer no Greyjoys but Yara.


  • Create New...