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A lot of people do have a problem with the scene. Doran is sending his only heir to the place where both his sister and brother got killed and trusting only the word of the guy who horned his King and killed the other one. Sending Trystane along with Myrcella will give KL back the one important hostage they had and now they won a new one. Look how that end up for Sansa Stark :dunno: If next season, somehow, Dany joins Dorne, they will be neutralized by the fact KL can kill him at any moment. It's a very stupid move specially considering when Arianne asks his father to send her, Doran tells her "no, you're my heir and the future of Dorne. I cannot". He sends her to a very different mission.

The show spent several episodes establishing that Doran was smarter than the average bear and used silent cunning to develop plans over long periods of time. You think he just went "DUY DUY" and let Trystane go for no reason?

#1 Trystane serving on Small Council gives him experience and an inside track.

#2 Trystane will need guards so they will be the Sand Snakes who have had to swear allegiance to Doran. They go to KL and can do stealthy ninja shit at night.

#3 If anyone dares harm Trystane or make threats Doran will more than likely go to war. Trystane might die, but hey, who cares if Doran can claim the Iron Throne when they sack KL....poor...impoverished....undermanned King's Landing.

^^^LOL. It was the best episode ever

Well, that's debatable but seriously it was a really good episode. The pieces are perfectly placed for the internet to get broken next week. I"m honestly surprised that its getting so much hate. I guess producers went a little overboard marketing to women. They accidentally scooped up a bunch of feminists and vegan yoga bloggers. I swear it's like some people go to the ASOIAF wiki page for their reading material.

because they said it. It was ambition vs family love. Not duty vs family love.

When Stannis wanted to burn Gentry he clearly told Davos that the realm was more important than one boy.

Shireen was his moment to prove it.

Stannis is ruthless in his conviction and sense of duty. He will do anything to "protect" Westeros. He is tough as nails.

Why does Shireen's death surprise you?

What are you even talking about? Ramsay rallying the Northern lords? That's good solid crackpottery there.

Why do you think that?

Ramsay never said what he wanted the 20 men for. We just assume its a commando squad to attack Stannis.

Melisandre walked out and looked over at the tent BEFORE it went aflame. Curious she knew where to look.

The camp lit on fire at different points at the same time. Even if you wanted to believe Ramsay had a big barrel labeled "DYNO-MITE" with a thin trail of gunpowder or something then be my guest. Im sure D&D will offer you a writing gig.

Why exactly is this theory crackpottery?

I'm another one who is now officially cheering for Ramsay against TV!Stannis.

Leaving aside questions of character assassination, and the sheer lack of logic involved, how the hell does TV!Stannis expect anyone to fight for him after that? Were I in Stannis' army, I'd grab some horse meat and do a runner for Castle Black (taking the black if necessary).

Not a book reader, huh?

Next episode Stannis and Melisandre wake up to see the sun shining. All is forgiven.

I bet they even show a quick shot of Shireen's burnt body for "shock value"

When the snow clears, all of Stannis' army will bend the knee answer allegiance to him and the red god.

Ramsay's 20-man stealth squad was pretty hilarious. I wonder how many fans Stannis lost after this episode. The Trant-Arya thing was a bit too convenient for my taste, but it's hardly surprising. Uhhh... What else... The SotH stabbing random people was just wonky. Actually kind of impressed they made TV-Mereen an even bigger shithole than book-Mereen. Can't wait to see how her advisers survive without her and her dragon, let alone rule.

There is no stealth squad. The writer's would have made sure to have a shot of Ramsay if it was him. Hate him if you want, but he's pretty much top 3 most popular character.

Ramsay is off to get the northern lords to help overthrow roose

Melisandre burned the camp.

Oh, and Davos knew she would do it. He had thought that Stannis would turn around. Mel saw the 20 riders in her flames and told Davos. Davos agreed to tell Stannis this.

Doesn't mean the 20 riders were heading for Stannis' camp.

Amazing. This inept writers are so stupid that they can't make an ambiguous character and they just turn him into "villain".

How is Stannis a "villain"? Yes, he burned his own daughter but he already wanted to burn his own nephew. He doesn't see himself as evil, he just sees himself as Westeros' last hope.

His men were on the brink of revolt. More than likely Shireen, Selyse, Stannis, Davos, and even Mel would be killed in the onslaught and nobody would care because its Stannis. Stannous didn't laugh or smile. He grit his teeth and did his duty. I know you're a regular watcher, and you're a book enthusiast. You can't tell me you think this is the writer's "fault"

Come see Ramsay "Solid Snake" Bolton and his 20 Delta Force good men destroying one of the greatest commanders and war minds by burning his stocks with surprise "out of his ass" fire...

Come see Jorah "grey scale" Mormont almost die in a pit fighting nobodies, THEN throwing a lance 100 meters aways right in the heart of an assassin...

Come see Dany in a Gucci dress riding a docile flying serpent who spits fire and saves the day with sweet music...

And YES, come see the total, brutal assassination of a greatly written asoiaf character... the child burner, it's 1 - 1 between drogon and Demon Stannis on that one but it seems the dragon is going on a redemption road while the show writers most hated character suffers from biased fan fiction...

HECK YEAH, tune in for the rest of the show... if you like horse manure

Melisandre is the one who burned Stannis' camp. Ramsay is heading to the North Lords for help, but nobody knows that yet because D&D are trolling you. Sorry, bud.

Stannis Baratheon, the man who held Storm's End for the entire length of a war while living off of rats and horses decides to burn his daughter and heir because a few of his supplies were burnt? Yeah, bullshit. I doubt anyone can say that D&D aren't just out to destroy Stannis' as a character now...

Lol, yeah you said it Stannis HELD Storm's End, meaning he was under siege. So were his men. He's on the opposite end now and any day now his men would most likely mutiny or just abandon the mission. Haha.

Sam already told Jon last season that sex doesn't break the night's watch vows

Do you even watch the show? I mean that nicely? I mean like rematch it over and over to ensure you fully understand?

Sam told Jon that taking a wife was breaking vows, but having sex basically falls into a grey area if you really want it to. He never said it was breaking vows, just questioning what the vows really mean. The whole point of my statement was that Gilly is using her body to get Sam to get her away from the wall.

She could have left any time but her and Sam cobbled up some feeble excuse about it being dangerous beyond the wall and all that jazz, and she is afraid to go without him now.

Sam already has been doing whatever she's wanted and places her safety above all else.

I also doubt Gilly even know what the game even is.

Ah, ah, ahhh!!! I said "(CERSEI'S)" game of thrones. She says that a woman's greatest weapon is between her legs.

But Sam would be willing to help Gilly, but he won't break his vows willingly. By sexing him, Gilly can claim that he already broke one vow, why not break one to save her life? Sam's fucked. Too bad he took his vows by a heart tree with Jon, so he technically is vowing to the old north gods.

I don't see what the issue is with Tyene. Remember the character who was cut. Tyene clearly is taking elements of that character into her own. Furthermore Tyene set out to kill Bronn when they fought, she only changed her mind after when they were conveniently put into cells across from each other than Bronn proving interesting to her (His fighting skills are pretty great too, so he humbled her when he beat her). Thus the poisoning wasn't pointless. Furthermore, Tyene seducing and saving Bronn most likely means she plans to try and get him wrapped into a plot of hers later. As for "never leaving Dorne", well... They never said Bronn had to die. For all we know he is convinced to betray Jaime for a bigger prize by Tyene and then retires into Dorne.

Tyene seducing Bronn had a purpose too, it was meant to force the poison to work faster. Had Bronn not had his blood pumping the poison would have taken much longer to start affecting him.

This is a departure from the books, sure, but it's far more interesting for Bronn's character that's for sure.

I also don't see the point in all the fuss about Sansa. Clearly she's taking another minor characters role and she's desperate, furthermore it would be cheap if Theon turned so easily. Now she knows she's alone and has to take things into her own hands and I'm sure the pay-off will be glorious when the season ends.

My only issue with the episode was the almost rape scene which was followed by the victim immediately bedding her "savior" after tending to his wounds. It simply rubbed me off the wrong way.

-

Long term viewer of the forum, I didn't decide to register till recently.

Gilly wasn't sexing her "savior" she was playing Cerise's game of thrones. Watch carefully, she's not dumb she feels the looks she is getting. Aemon says to get south but she can't do it alone. She needs/wants Sam, so she uses what she can to get him to break his vows and take her away. It's the same thing happening to Tommen when he says he loves Marg who clearly doesn't love him. Are you following? It's not sexist, its real life!

This is the perfect thread to tell a bunch of random strangers what I think about this episode. Too many whiners over at the Nitpick thread and too many tree-hugging liberals over at the positive nitpick thread, I liked and disliked some stuff so Ill list both here:

Opening Credits

Nitpick: I hate that giant snake thingy at the opening credits. It’s just too goofy and Mardi Gras-ish. There’s all these real-life actual sites and monuments like Mereen and The Wall and even Titan of Braavos, then at the end it has this giant snake coiled around a tower? I’ve read the five ASOIAF books twice, and I want to reread in time for WoW, but I don’t remember the big goofy snake thing in Dorne…but I might have just missed the description. Any know-it-all book/Youtube fanatics can clarify this?

Scene 1: The Wall

+ Nitpick: I think it’s awesome how it starts with Jon preparing to ride off to Hardhome. Watch closely and you see him sheath Longclaw on his horse. That was a secretly powerful opening to me, and it has much significance. Long claw is Jeor Mormont’s old sword that he gave to Jon. Jeor also caused a bunch of cataclysmic shit when he did the exact same thing before taking 300 Night’s Watch beyond the wall only to see most of them killed by the White Walkers. It really (silently drives the point (sorry for the pun) home that Jon’s plan, like Jeor’s is stupid and reckless and will likely get a lot of people killed.

Nitpick: Okay, I feel really bad for Lil’ Olly at this point. Sure, I hate it when the kid nods like a fucking retard, but seriously, his dad is laughing ad telling him jokes and then takes an arrow through the eye. His mom is chopped to death with an axe by the very same man who Jon is being buddy buddy with and riding off to find more Wildlings to let through the gate (Notice how Jon also sheathed an axe…). On top of that, Jon delicately carried a dead Wildling (who happened to be the one to kill Olly’s mom) and gave it a little kiss before burning her with full Night’s Watch honors (see Aemon’s death and the random Night’s Watch guy who they burned right before the big non-empowering Craster’s rape scene.

I think this is a Nit-Pick because the show producer’s are too caught up with head nods instead of zooming in on the pain and torture and psychosis that Olly has in his eyes.

Nitpick: I thought when Tormund was brought out it was too cop movie-ish. I think Tormund went overboard a bit with the whole “Fuck the law, I’m outta this bitch, bitches”. Jon pretending not to notice didn’t help, and it made the (probably) impending Ides of March more tragic, and ultimately necessary. The fan girls must be shitting their pants by now. The heroic Jon turning into a hopeless fuckwit. He better get his act together, or else he won’t be able to ride off on the dragon with Dany;) Oh yeah btw, it’s pretty obvious that R+L DOES NOT=J for OBVIOUS reasons. Another post on that later, maybe.

+Nitpick: I love how the producers show how quickly unpopular Jon is getting without going overboard to point it out. Notice how he rides off with nobody to wish him farewell except for Sam. The looks of anger or refusal to look at all. Jon’s days are numbered no matter what, and it shows without an extra word needed. Even the music is oddly bitter. Jon’s exchange with Ser Alliser Thorne was spot-on. You can tell he’s going through all of the formalities because when he betrays Jon and assumes command for himself, the men will still follow the old way. It’s tragic because as weirdly "noble" Alliser is being with the betrayal itself, there can be no more Night’s Watch. It’s over. it’s done. It’s just that nobody realizes it yet.

Scene 2: The Wall/Maester Aemon’s Deathbed.

+Nitpick: It’s brilliant that they were able to bring Unsullied and slow book readers up to speed on who the hell Maester Aemon is and how he’s connected to the Targaryan family by using Gilly’s ignorance.

Nitpick: I know it was supposed to be Maester Aemon’s time to shine in his final moments, but WAAAAAAYYYYYYY too long! It was sad at first, then mildly annoying, then strangely uncomfortable. After a while you just want the old man to die and be out of his misery so we can see some Sand Snakes boobies. The sadness was also taken away a bit because instead of some actual sage advice (DUH! GET THE FUCK OUTTA THERE, GILLY), we get Aemon going out like a senile old coot. As a Targaryan, I think he should have been allowed a little more dignity than that.

+Nitpick: I love the air of mystery that we also get surrounding Aemon’s death, without presenting it as one. Gill tells Sam that he’ll need to speak for Aemon tomorrow…Sam says “You Don’t Know That”… Sure, guy’s on his deathbed but how DID she know that? BUM BUM BUMMMMMMM!!!

“Poison is a woman’s weapon”

Did Gilly somehow convince Sam to help guide Aemon to the afterlife? The next scene after Aemon clasps Sam’s hands, and Sam looks defeated, we see Aemon dead on the funeral pyre. Hmmmm….

If it did happen, then Gilly would have done it thinking that Sam would be in charge or “speaking for Aemon” and he’d be able to protect her. It’s reasonable, considering her limited knowledge and understanding of Night Watch politics and she’s been there for a while and probably is sensing danger coming. She seemed awful chirpy about watching over Aemon and was pretty confident that Sam would be speaking the very next day. Amends been sick for a while, Sam wasn’t speaking for him then, so why now all of a sudden?

Brilliant fucking move, D&D…simply fucking brilliant.

Scene 3/Scene 4: Sansa/Theon

Nitpick: Whoa, whoa whoa…at this point I’m noticing how DARK things are like everywhere. I know winter is coming eider eider and it symbolically represents how bleak everything is getting for the north yadda yadda…but come on I want to SEE Theon and Sansa…this isn’t a fucking mystery movie here. If this is autumn, are we going to have to “just imagine” what’s going on when winter hits?

Nitpick: Why the fuck is Theon serving Sansa her food? That weird “North Remembers” lady changed like one shit pail and called it a day? Okay, MAYBE Ramsay sent Theon to check Sansa out and see if she’d spill any beans, but how about an explanation or a random question of “what are YOU doing here?”

+Nitpick: Sansa is an empty-headed child, but DAMN that was some pretty good acting, especially when her eye twitches a little when she talks about Ramsay “coming” (heh heh) every night. It’s also too bad that its so dark we don’t see the bruises on her arms that well, but in retrospect make that’s why they made the whole thing so dark anyway post-production. The “Sansa got raped” crowd would go nuts and clog up the boards even worse than before. Seriously, I read like a ten-page essay by a rape victim who wrote a rant on how episode 6 was “not okay”

Nitpick: Sansa: YOU BETRAYED MY FAMILY…but whatever. My family still has friends in the North, light a candle in the Tower and they will come to save me! Please don’t tell Ramsay!!!!

Theon: REEK! My name is REEK!

Sansa: Now THAT’s empowerment!…*puts on retro 80’s shades*…Sansa style!

(Is this the Sansa “manipulation” all the feminists were rooting for? Yeah, okay)

+Nitpick: It’s great how Sansa reminds Theon who he really is and more than likely reminded him of how he hates her. Great job to the writers for making it cool to bash Sansa again!

+Nitpick: AMAZING shot of Theon walking outside and we see the tower. We almost don’t stop to wonder how the fuck is anyone going to see a candle in a snow storm from all the way up there and how the fuck is that candle supposed to NOT go out? Anyway, cue Theon marching right past and up to Ramsay. We truly see just how much Ramsay has tortured Theon past the point of resistance…or has he REALLY? Some guy did what Ramsay did to me, maybe I’d stick around for a while too….just to kill him slowly…

Nitpick: So Brienne isn’t cold at all just standing there staring at a fucking castle? Where the fuck is Pod? POD!!! At least have her walk away or toward the fucking castle. Don’t just stand there looking defeated. That’s not very empowering!!!

Scene 4: Aemon’s funeral

+Nitpick: Awesome how the scene is almost a direct mirror of that fateful night when the Nights Watch MUTINY took place. Sam surrounded by a bunch of angry and very hungry men. A fire burning, and you can feel the evil starting to spread in the air. It doesn’t look good for the Night’s Watch. Internet, prepare to be broken.

Nitpick: Why did they have Alliser make that mean comment right then? Yes, we know he’s a douchbag, but it’s Maester Aemon’s fucking funeral for fucking sake! Have some fucking respect for the fucking man! Show producers, stop this tv-show bullshit. The whole point of GoT is that there are no easy choices. Sure, Alliser wants command for himself for selfish reasons, but you’re overshadowing the fact that they are GOOD reasons. Jon is just like his BROTHER, Robb. Stupid ideas and stupid convictions imagined up by green boys who have never seen war before. We don’t need writers and producers holding our hands and telling us this is a bad guy and he’s a good guy. We’re big boys and girls now, let us go by ourselves to hang out at Grandpa George’s house.

Nitpick: Shot of Night’s Watch standing together to see Aemon off to the afterlife, but one half looks like Night’s Watch battle-hardened men and the other side is made up almost completely of boys who look young than 19. Are we to believe these guys survived and everyone else got killed? Someone should check HBO underage hiring practices.

+Nitpick: “You’re losing all your friends, Tarly.” Cue shot of Night’s Watch member with murder in his eye. BTW, where the fuck is Dolorous Edd for this scene? He knows Sam has no other friends. Brilliant how we see Sam’s face realizing that he’s literally defenseless and surrounded by guys who want to kill him. Haha, way to go Jon. I hope Olly gets you right in the fucking eye.

Scene 6: Ramsay/Sansa?”North Remembers” Lady

+Nitpick: This whole scene is fucking brilliant. How everything just fits. Sansa forced to meet Ramsay at the top of Winterfell, just like she was summoned by Joffrey at KL who giggled as he showed off her dead father’s severed head. The look on his face when she first approaches…Did Theon REALLY tell?

+Nitpick: “Fat, bearded beast” line was genius! I guess they threw in “bearded” so people wouldn’t cry foul on insensitivity to fat Walda. Line of the decade!

Nitpick: When Ramsay walks along the rampart with Sansa, there’s a guy working at drawing up a bucket or something. It really bugs me that he didn’t turn and say “M’lord” or something. What bugs me even more is how Ramsay doesn’t seem to notice the blatant disrespect, highly uncharacteristic for someone so sensitive about his status and title.

Nitpick: Sassy Sansa?? Oh man, maybe those nutty feminists had some kind of effect on the producers! I mean, I could see Joffry gulping like some idiot, but I was a little disappointed that Ramsay didn’t punch her in the face for her use of the term “Bastard” with such a sneer in her voice. It was just weird how he didn’t do anything. Guess he can’t hurt her or all the townspeople would rebel, but he should have at least whispered “You’ll be sorry for that” or SOMETHING! Oh well, if it keeps the bra burners off our backs for a week or so, then I guess its worth it (Yes, I know bras weren’t actually burned and thats a myth, but work with me here)

It’s not about the violence, it’s about staying in character.

Nitpick: Yes the flayed old woman of Winterfell was beautifully horrifying, but "where’s the beef”?! It had too much of a “re-edit” feel to it and it makes me wonder if HBO is second-guessing itself. One word of advice: STOP LISTENING TO THESE PANTY-TWISTED TWIST PANTIES, AND KEEP MAKING RAW, UNFLINCHING SHOWS LIKE YOU USED TO!

Nitpick: Ramsay ushers in his henchmen to take Sansa to her prison without raising his voice. I didn’t even see the Bluetooth headpiece.

+Nitpick: Brilliant fucking acting from Ramsay.

Scene 6: Stannis!!!!!

NitpickL Hey, wait a minute! Didn’t they already use these mountains to introduce us to the Thenns? Hey, these aren’t even mountains! They’re just set pieces covered in dry ice!

+Nitpick: Brilliant fucking exchange between Stannis and Davos. I loved how Davos reluctantly tells Stannis how the Stormcrows rode off in the night. It reminds me of seasons past, when Davos argued that they should use sellswords and Stannis refutes him saying sellswords aren’t trustworthy. With them leaving, all is truly fucked it seems. Also a great “told ya so” moment for Stannis. The guy needs to be right about something for a change. Also great how Mel is there, too. Twice she warned Stannis so far, and twice Davos failed. Plus, the war would have been won if they had just been able to burn Gentry. Oh, well. Thanks, Davos.

Nitpick: Stannis, first of his name, king of the Andals and the First Men, lord of the seven kingdoms, and Protector of the realm can’t even get a piece of ass on a cold day. Way to go, Mel! Show ‘em that you’re empowered! Kissing costs extra!

I guess no fire boobies this week, or shadow demon babies for that matter.

Scene 7: Sam and Gilly

Nitpick: *Yawn* Wow, more Sam and Gilly. Yay. Why are they even still here? Gill should have been sent away a long time ago, but Jon allows her to stay because Sam is his pal. Way to win friends, and influence people, Jonny boy.

+Nitpick: Sam getting his ass kicked is cool. And the way he kind of smiles as he gets punched is hypnotizing. Punch him again.

Nitpick: The Ghost of Night’s Watch saves Sam (with nary a growl). Okay, I know Sam needed a save and Gilly couldn’t possibly be raped so soon after Sansa’s episode, so I guess it’s up to Ghost to save the day. Not a wise-cracking Dolorous Edd or a sneering Ser Alliser, but a CGI dire wolf that disappears just as suddenly as he appears. Okay, I know CGI is expensive, but come on, would it have been to hard to starve an actual dog and record the growls he makes? *Please don’t mistreat animals, folks. It’s sick and NOT funny. I was just joking, honest!*

Nitpick: Would-be rapists run off like some cheesy Disney heist movie or the agents in The Matrix. At least one of them should have been ripped to shreds. Dogs don’t just smell fear and let you run away to rape another day. They get excited and rip your throat out.

Nitpick: Sam gets laid for the first time…like a little bitch! Empowerment time, girls! Ride that horse! Straddle that pony! If he won’t break those vows to save your child’s life, then he better break em when you give him some! It’s so funny, everyone can’t wait to see Sansa manipulate Ramsay, but Sam is getting winger-dingered big time!

+Nitpick: Gilly is a dirty little Wildling…

Scene 8: Tyrion and Jorah

Nitpick: The show is fine at this point, but I’m starting to take issue with people complaining about “black slavers”. I won’t go into too much because there’s such a VAST and WIDE SPANNING history on the subject, but please people, READ A FUCKING HISTORY BOOK.-Sincerely, Random Black Guy on ASOIAF forums.

Nitpick: Where the fuck did they find Anabeesi?

Nitpick: Tyrion bing able to call out and get the slaver’s attention without being punched or kicked is amazing. I noticed this time inconsistency last episode as well, when Tyrion had time to plead his case before almost getting his throat cut. Producers, stop editing in so much time for witty rebuttals and quips from Tyrion, and sum it all up in one frenzied, desperate sentence next time.

+Nitpick: Tyrion: “Yo, so how much o’ dat moolah you finn ta be splittin’ wit da homies mah nig-*SLAP*

Slave Master: There’s your wages , funny man. They should last the rest of your life.

Jorah: Damn, son! You got knocked da fuck out!!!

Nitpick: Just noticed how quiet that lively slave auction was.

Nitpick: Wait, Tyrion has super-strength now? I know some dwarves are supposed to have super upper body strength, but Tyrion hardly moved! The guy was looking at him the whole time, so its not like he just got whammied outta nowhere….oh well, take THAT pirate slaver token non-black guy who’s sole purpose is to promote equality and diversity in the slaver pirate world so audience members watching won’t have much of a leg to stand on when they ignorantly spout how racist such a historically accurate portrayal is in a fantasy epic!

Scene 9: Dany and Daario

Nitpick: Wow, great…a sexless pillow talk scene with Dany and Daario. It’s so hot! Like, totally. It’s like…like…crazy tasteful, and I love how she unrealistically covers her boobs like some old 90’s soap opera. YAWN!

Nitpick: Wait, so, Dany says she won’t round up the Masters and slaughter them because she is not a butcher, but yet two episodes ago she randomly picked one and fed him to her dragons? Ummm…Pick a side Dany! Dario is sounding less and less like an eventual traitor and more and more like an eventual traitor with good reasons to betray Dany. Chick is a friggin lunatic! You already mercilessly crucified one half of the Masters now how about you kill the other half thats more than likely funding the Harpies!

Nitpick: No harpies. Dany is blissfully relaxed and calm and horny mere nights after Barristan was ruthlessly stabbed in a dark, dirty alley. Selfish direwolf.

+Nitpick: Everyone likes meat. Except vegetarians, and crazy people of course.

Scene 10: Olenna and High Sparrow

+Nitpick: Olenna’s back and she’s as snarky as ever! High Sparrow better smarten up or she’ll clip his ear, good! How empowering!

Nitpick: Okay, Olenna is overdoing it, now. At this point, she’s blatantly threatening the man who holds both her granddaughter and grandson in a dirty cell, and she threatens to cut off the food supply. Okay, must be the food supply for the rest of KL and not the prison cells. Way to negotiate, but stay empowered!

+Nitpick: High Sparrow is doing a really good job of keeping up his chuckling grandfather routine. Ive read reviews on top gaming sites talking about how he’s so pure and convicted in his faith. Incorruptible. Haha, great writing and awesome directing. This guy’s got half the ASOIAF fooled! Hope he doesn’t pull any switcheroos or anything by the end of the episode.

Nitpick: Instead of HS using Olenna’s threat to remind her that cutting off the wheat supply would affect Marg and Loras, he wastes precious switcheroo time to give a lecture on class relations and why we need more fiber in our diets. Just admit that you’re an evil fuck and you have a band of fanatical militants under your thumb and that you have just engineered one of the most ingenious hostile usurps in all of Westeros history! You old bastard, you. You terrify us all when you say those spooky “When the many stop fearing the few” lines that you just leave hanging in the air. You old bastard, you.

+Nitpick: Olenna’s fucked, and she knows it.

Nitpick: Or is she? I’m pretty nitpick about this “sequential” show layout the producers have taken to be the standard. What happened to us seeing what happens next in segments? Now its just from Point A to B. I think the show is being dumbed down for Unsullied viewers. How about a trip to the local library instead?

Scene 12: Tommen (BARF) and Cersei (Still Sane)

Nitpick: Tommen is a little bitch. His voice is high like a six-year old and Michael Jackson’s family is suing for defamation of character. Case in point, Tommen is a little bitch. Wow, he gets mad and threatens to kill every last one of the sparrows, but alas, he’s a little bitch. I’m watching and getting excited at the pair growing that I am watching right before my eyes (no home-o) and then snort as Tommen lowers his head and fails to do anything. If you’re not going to be tough at least look suspiciously at your mom who is taking this all surprisingly well. At least evoke some sort of sense. Man, they should have kept 8 year old Tommen because nothing about this Tommen is any different. It’s like this dude actually read the books and was like “Tommen acts like…THIS”. This is the perfect time for people to shout at Tommen through their magic casting glass and shout “TOMMEN, THATS IN THE BOOKS DUMBASS!” Then the day would be saved because Tommen could act without coming across like a little bitch.

+Nitpick: “Any man that must say he is the king is no true king”-Tywin Lannister (Deceased)

“I’M THE KING!!”-Joffrey, First of his Name (Deceased)

“I’M THE KING!…AND THERE’S NOTHING I CAN DO!” *SOB*-Tommen, First of his Name (Truly Fucked)

Nitpick: It’s still obvious Cersei isn’t actually acting in the same shot as her acting mates. They keep using stand-ins to pretend they are actually talking to each other. It’s annoying because you see the lighting changes and the stand-in actors don’t even move like who they are copying. Tome’s stand-in looks like Jamie from behind (is it the Jaime stand in?) an Cersei’s stand-in moves with the grace of an Acme anvil heading towards a city street.

Scene 13: Douchebag Jaime and Myrcella the Spoilt Brat

+Nitpick: Myrcella is pretty hot.

Nitpick: WTF did they do to Jaime!?!? Apart from more stand-in actors, the guy sounds like he woke up in a fucking daze or something. This whole scene is short and pointless. Out of all the things Myrcella could have talked about (you know like the attempted kidnapping and brutal beating of her fiancé, if jaime is hurt, what happened to Bronn etc…) she opts for a tantrum about having to go home too early after the big dance. They don’t discuss the consequences of what just happened, in fact Jaime doesn’t seem to realize he just broke about a dozen peace treaties and that he’s a Lannister who did all of these things, so shit is going to hit the fan. You’re locked up and you’ve just triggered a war that your sister and son will be forced to contend with by themselves, and you’re worried about Myrcella rightfully not being pleased about you being there? Prioritize, man! (said the guy who is ranting on public forum s instead of doing his course projects)

Nitpick: Not enough kicking Jaime in the balls.

Scene 14: Sand Snakes (*sigh*) and Bronn (Okay maybe it won’t all be bad)

Nitpick: You suck at singing, Bronn. And you made it worse by recording that shit in a studio first.

+Nitpick: Bronn not taking any shit. Classic Bronn snark. Looks like he’s escaping with the Sand Snakes and not getting executed after all. I hope this doesn’t make Doran angry and his subjects demanding that someone should pay. Oh, and I hope that someone isn’t Jaime.

+Nitpick: FINALLY! Some boobie action! Yes, sure okay, you’re the most beautiful woman I’ve ever seen, now let’s play Twister (said Bronn;) Great setup by Tyene to save the man she had fallen for. Great exit for producers to keep Bronn after all. Great day for the devil.

Nitpick: I rolled my eyes at the “most beautiful woman in the world” dialogue. I also noticed how editors took great effort to make sure shadows were on her face and how it cut to Bronn when she asked the question (conveniently with the cell bar covering most of her beautiful face). HBO, instead of having the Sand Snakes cast lots to see who has to flash boobies, how about you reinforce their confidence? I think Tyene is attractive. Most beautiful in the world? Well, maybe not, but she could have sold the idea more. But still...boobies!

+Nitpick: Tyene trumped Bronn and showed how empowered she was…AND she did it by actually flashing her boobs! Way to go! Braun’s like “Got Antidote?” (Instead of “Got Milk”….see it’s funny!…HEY!!)

Nitpick: Wait, oh no! HBO didn’t start ANOTHER romance did they? Oh, shit! Hmmm…unless they are getting ready to destroy one…classic HBO…classic D&D.

Scene 15: Littlefinger and Olenna

Nitpick: Wow, more Olenna snarkiness. Okay, we get it. "The bitch is back”. Her threats are pretty cool, though. She kind of looks like the Emperor from Star Wars in some shots. So maybe its not that bad.

+Nitpick: Tommen is fucked.

Scene 16: Jorah and Tyrion meet Dany at the Slave Pits (Oh yeah, and Hizdahr is here, too. Mom made me bring him along)

+Nitpick: Finally, we some BLOOOOOOOD!! KILL! KILL! BUTCHER!!!! Dany looking on in horror is oddly hypocritical and we all know it. There it is, for all the world to see! The fall of Danaerys Targaryan!

Nitpick: Jorah going all beast mode looks dumb and is illogical. I guess they usually kept the pit gates open for cowardly fighters to run through as they please. No need to KILL any of these men, that would be butchery! Then the guards grab him and I half expect him to scream DANNNNNYYYYYYYYYYYYY in agony as he holds a boombox over his head. Tyron strolls out and presents himself, all haughty, the pretentious little shit. Finally, now we can put this silly Greyscale business behind us. …or CAN we???? BUM BUM BUMMMMMM!!!

Scene 17: Cersei Separate Scener, Margaery Ty-Smell, High and Mighty Sparrow

Nitpick: Cersei isn’t even remotely suspicious? Well, okay? I guess if that’s how it is in the books…

Nitpick: Still too dark. I want to SEE Marg covered in dirt and her own waste. She doesn’t seem to be too shaken up at being thrown in prison. It comes off like she is having a bad tan day at the salon or something.

Nitpick: LOL @ HS patting a stone podium and it makes a hollow sounding noise.

+Nitpick: Great acting by Cersei as it slowly dawns on her that she’s fucked. Enter Lancel, obviously scared from his encounter with Littlefinger so he preemptively confesses his sins, lest the shrewd bastard rats him out.

+Nitpick: Cersei with the cool line about last thing nuns will see before they die. Who needs The Stranger when Cersei is sneering at you?

+Nitpick: Great ending scene and great ending music. Bittersweet and sad.

Thanks for reading! Now watch this video I made! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRd1Zb7mHEA

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"Game of Thrones Soccer Highlights (Bahamas Vs. Mexico)"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRd1Zb7mHEA

Dorne is important if you have Arianne and Quentin.

​Dorne is still important without them. Aria wanted to follow a plan that could lead to Dorne entering a war, so instead we have Ellaria doing that role. Arianna's appearance, though missed, is unnecessary to achieve the ultimate goal of getting Dorne to enter the war.

Aegon & Co are not on there way. No rep of Dorne has met with Dany... so her going there isn't 100% certain.

​Quentin would be that Dorne rep, right? Well, I think his purpose was different. His true purpose, if you read the books, is to serve as the king's blood needed to aid R'hllor. When he was burned by the dragons, his death effectively served as a royal sacrifice. Notice how magically Dany comes across the Khalasar with Drogo. The Khal won't be able to attack Dany, but he may decide to help attack the youngish army before they can start heaving those dead corpses. The who sacrifice thing makes more sense if you look at the Shireen/Melisandre theories popping up about the show.

They felt only that Doran and the Sandsnakes were important and their mission ultimately takes them to KL and Oldtown. A counsel seat is open at KL so they could have just shown up there and been introduced. And if Dany does show up in Dorne Doran could just use LF's jet pack to get back in time.

I'm not talking about the necessity to include Tysha. I'm talking about the completly unnecessary and unrealistic act of a whore offering Tyrion free sex. If Tyrion was that much of a lady's man he wouldn't need Shae or any other whore.

The complaints certainly aren't baseless. You can love the show despite them if you want, but the show is ruining it's own image.

If Dorne is important then make a coherrent story line of their own or follow the one that is already layed out for them in the books.

I'd love to see this, but it's not possible to fully flesh out coherently as they do in the books. You have no Arianne, Darkstar, and these roles need to be played by already recognizable characters so their value doesn't diminish. This is why they splice storylines. Also, with the way people get very sensitive, they are not going to slash Myrcella's face (thats the way it looks) so there goes the books pretext for war. Think about the end game, Dorme must enter into a war with the Iron Throne at all costs. How is not as important as the why.

I can only laugh at the need to have a terrible Dorne story line so they can have the "necessary and tasteful Sansa rape". Sansa's rape wasn't necessary because her entire marriage wasn't necessary. Boltons lose wardens of the north title and make enemies of the Iron Throne so they can have a figure head Stark wife when there is no one around for this to impress.

​Boltons also don't know Petyr plans to do the switcher with Cersei in KL. Sansa is not a figurehead. She is of noble blood of the only House they pledge fealty to. The Northmen are fiercely honorable, so they will not likely refute Roose's claim or defy him if Sansa is in his clutches. Sure, she legitimizes the claim, but she's really a hostage. Notice, Rose doesn't even care that she is a virgin and is willing to put her to work in a brothel, so long as she bears a child. It's not about impressing the Iron Throne. It's about focusing on the immediate concern of not being destroyed by a vengeful Northern uprising. Even Tywin failed to lift a finger to aid Roose Bolton, so why would he care? In fact, if the Iron Throne wanted to "do something" then that would involve sending armies to the frozen north that has never been conquered by force. With Sansa in Roose and Ramsay's grip, the Northmen would have no choice but to rally behind the Bolton claim because the South isn't very much liked in the North anyway.

Littlefinger sacrifices the heir to Winterfell to justify going to war and claiming Warden of the North for himself, even though Cersei didn't ask for any proof

​Why would she? She has no friends and she is desperate for good news of any kind at this point. She's not likely to demand proof of any kind, but rather act impulsively and without proper reasoning just like her book character.

and it makes no sense that the Vale would go to war for Littlefinger in the first place.

Why not? Little finger is Lord of the Vale until Robin comes of age. They might not go to war just for Littlefinger, but they will go to war if Littlefinger tells them that Sansa was kidnapped and they need to rally the troops. Keep watching the show, it will pan out, for sure. LF shows them the royal decree from the Iron Throne and they are fuel and rallied by a need to protect Sansa. Nice of their beloved Lysa Tully. Sansa is also promised to Robin, so they too will want a strong Stark-Tully-Arryn bond cementing their strength. Remember, they don't have SMS txting in Westeros. Not many people even realize that shit is about to spill over because they are focused on their individual problems.

He couldn't give Cersei any proof of Sansa being there if she asked. If she decided to confirm it with her own spies then they would easily discover that Littlefinger is the one who escorted Sansa to Winterfell and arranged the wedding.

​What spies? Varys, Master of Whispers is gone, remember? Qyburn doesn't have the same sophistication of resources and spiders that Varys spent decades building. Cerise is unlike by pretty much everyone. The idea that someone would travel all the way north to south, braving the bandits and septa raping reavers and wild mountain clans and famine that is plaguing the southern kingdoms, just to warn cerise is beyond believable.

So the wedding makes little sense for either side. Even less for Sansa to agree to it. For revenge?

One of the biggest, most overlooked possible motivation for Sansa to go through all of this is the idea that she can still get POWER. She didn't go to get raped, she went because Petyr promised to rescue her and make her Wardens of the North. Remember, she is an empty-headed child. She can't play the game. That's an insult to players of the game.

I thought she was learning the game and not so naive? How does getting married to a Bolton give her any revenge? They needed to consolidate as many characters as they can in as few locations as they can and this is the best way they could come up with to do it. Unfortunately it's just not very good writing.

I think that it might not necessarily be bad writing, but not enough writing and scenes to make it all fit together. Unfortunately only 10 episodes a season, so...

The other problem that hasn't really been discussed regarding Tyrion being offered free sex by a whore is if he can do that, why does he need whores in the first place? If women want him even when he has no money, shouldn't he be charming normal women of westeros? At least as many as any other noble? It works against the fact that in the books he isn't an attractive man even before losing his nose. He might be charismatic and witty, but he feels like the only way a woman is going to want him is if he pays for her. That's part of why learning the truth about Tysha was so devestating.

Ramsay raping Sansa is "realisitic" to the situation they put her in, but it's just funny that a whore who just met Tyrion offering him free sex doesn't matter whether it's realistic or not.

Because it's unnecessary. Tyron's character and the way he views the world is built heavily on his experience with Tysha. The show doesn't have the luxury of Tyrion finding himself or some Dawson's Creek inner struggle because he would need to interact with someone in order to vocally present what he thinks so the audience can understand. This guy's gotta get to Meereen, so better to have him unable to bang prostitutes because he feels bad about shooting his father to death with a crossbow quarrel. Oh, and his dad banged the same prostitute he fell in love with, so he had to kill that hoe with his bare hands right before killing his dad so it ties in nicely and cements Tyrion as a figure we shouldn't be too quick to raise to hero status.

It's called "walking away" Tyrion. Way to set an example for the people on these forums.

Okay, here's my other post about Dorne :drool:

I can't believe I'm writing in defense of this mess, but here goes:


I think that both show watchers and book watchers need to have more of an appreciation for how even a basic local television show is produced. The amount of collaboration, coordination, and precise timing of marketing and post-production promotion is key to generating the millions of viewers that HBO gets every week for GoT. Having worked in the field, I can tell you that it ain't no picnic.

GoT got millions of dollars for additional budget of the show, we know that. But all we have seen of Dorne is a few rolling hills and drab scenery. Then we get punk'd reading about how they had enough money to make Areo's sword really intricate and they made a bunch of realistic face masks. Also, Dorne was filmed in Spain, so that meant that cast and crew had to be split in order to film in all locations. So yes, it is reasonable to assume that some hack writers and hack directors were used for the Dornish parts, because with Walk of Shame, Battle for Winterfell, Ides of march, Faceless training etc... D&D and maybe even RR Martin had to focus at home base.

This can only mean that Dorne, though neglected, is important to the overall storyline and MUST be included. So if that means bad acting, horrible casting, and wacky hi jinx with Jaime and bronn, then so be it. The ends will justify the means.

The whole story is about how the Seven Kingdoms are falling and heading into chaos. Would you rather Cersei and others just casually mention that Dorne is going to shit too for whatever reason? No, I don't think we have time to read snarky complaints how D&D are stupid for not including the lush and beautiful Water Gardens because they "hate" the books.

Instead of criticizing work that takes years of planning just to get started, how about you compliment them for sacrificing their pride and allowing the show to go through a slight bump in plot, continuity, and pacing so they can focus their attention on making Sansa's very necessary (see a previous post in this thread I made explaining why) "rape" as tasteful as possible.

Please, everyone. Your complaints are ruining the show's image and it's not cool to be forced to sift through baseless complaints made on the fly as people rush to be the first to make comments during real-time airings of the show: "Oh shit, is Tommen just gonna sit there!?!?! Where dry army at?!"

Reading the way some posters are bashing this episode based purely on shocking visual elements, I find it to be bizarre to say the least.


1. Personally, I wouldn't call Sansa's first sexual experience with Ramsay to be "rape" per say, but it was unsavory and nothing to defend as noble or praiseworthy. However, lots of people on this forum seem to be intent on calling it a "rape", so if there is going to be some mass movement to redefine the word, then please just say that is what the agenda is. As for the act itself, producers D&D would be wise to ignore these accusations and continue to produce the best show for what GoT is intended to be.

One of the most unfortunate repercussions of the show being such a global sensation is the fact that too many liberal, Hollywood types want to step in and push Martin to the side while infusing the same, boring formulaic tv scripts that lead to shows being canceled. The Wire was great, but it did lag a bit in the story for a rather odd period during the middle of the series. And at least House had the writer's strike to blame bad writing on.

Sansa's..."rape", was supposed to represent the total destruction of innocence in Westeros. Don't get me wrong, she is a spoiled brat and she caused the death of her father, but she had dreams that were pure and good. The dashing prince coming to sweep her off her feet and take her away to a castle. Lemon cakes and tea served for her and her handmaidens. A strong son born to her lord and king, her line continuing on for ages to come.

We are quick to forget that Westeros history points to there being a time like that in ages past, but as society slowly crumbled, such ideas became dreams dreamt by empty-headed children, just like Sansa.

How far has Westeros fallen, when people now ridicule those with dreams of songs and flowers and lemon cakes at midday? Sansa, though a moron, represented innocence. Ramsay's brutality, and his ability to marry her and lawfully carry out his brutality on a member of the most noble house in the north, with no resistance, is symbolic of the decline and fall of House Stark, and the North in general. Theon, an Ironborn, the bringer of Winterfell's destruction, himself humbled and emasculated at the hands of Ramsay Bolton. The scene is awful, terrible, tragic, heartbreaking, and disgusting. That is the story of Winterfell. This is the heralding of the end of the north.

Wow, but some posters had to go out of their way to force their views down the throats of others, screaming sexism and making barely legal public statements about D&D's sexual proclivities and reasoning for including this scene. To make judgments without really thinking about the complex world which has been painstakingly planned and expanded for more than a decade, calling a still in progress manifestation a blatant and intentional declaration of sexism and silly made up terms like "empowerment through rape" is a disgusting practice that I feel should also be carefully watched by mods.


2. Yes, the writing is downright goofy at times, but please stop complaining about how Lady Olenna and the Tyrells "did nothing" about Loras and Margaery being taken away. The events happening at King's Landing are a series of highly complex, politically relevant moves made between different Houses vying for power. Lady Olenna can;t just say "Guards, seize them!!!" or something out of a Saturday morning cartoon, because they are literally surrounded by maybe fifty or sixty Faith Militant, hanging out outside the room, in the hallways, and outside guarding the entranceway. The Kingsguard and soldiers present could probably cut their way through a few dozen or so no problem, but then they would also have to contend with the crowd of supporters outside who would form up into another angry mob.

Also, you must remember that the place of Inquisition is more than likely at a holy space, so the guards having weapons at all would most likely be a sign of respect or a false sense of security for the nobles who would refuse to show up if they thought they would be in danger too.

As for the ridiculous "WHERZ DA TY-RELL ARMEE?" question, Olenna is not the head of the Tyrell command. She wields heavy influence, yes. But that bumbling bumblefuck (or is he?) Mace Tyrell holds that honor. Oh yeah, and remember how Cersei managed to have him "escorted" by Ser Meryn supposedly on a sensitive diplomatic mission to the Iron Bank? Well, I guess a lot of people have forgotten about Cerise's penchant for having people randomly locked away in cells. She conspired to have Marg and Loras thrown in jail, and it's reasonable to assume she conspired to have Mace secretly locked up and held hostage, so if the Tyrell army decided to attack, they would be stopped from doing so? I wonder how in depth people even bother to watch this series. I imagine for some people it involves staring at the screen with a glazed look in their eye, followed by a sudden spark of interest if Jaimie's sword glints in the Dornish sun just right.

As for the Tyrell army itself, Olenna nor Mace can just waltz up to the gates of king's Landing and demand they open up. Remember, these people got sacked by the current ruling class a few years ago, and if the Tyrells were to attack, it would be high treason, unless they were to take the throne.

If they take the throne, its not like every House and kingdom will recognize their claim. They will be called usurpers and most will rebel and refuse to obey. Westeros would sink into chaos, which is the reason the Tyrell's need to use Tommen to sire a male heir so that the Tyrells can get the throne through years of patience and without bloodshed, which has always been their way. Like seriously, I read about people accusing D&D not reading the books, but how about posters with negative comments read a history book or watch robin hood or something to get an understanding of how a situation like that would work. You don't just sit on the Iron Throne like some game of musical chairs and then you "win" the Seven Kingdoms.


As for Dorne...well...another post perhaps. :frown5:

Reading the way some posters are bashing this episode based purely on shocking visual elements, I find it to be bizarre to say the least.


1. Personally, I wouldn't call Sansa's first sexual experience with Ramsay to be "rape" per say, but it was unsavory and nothing to defend as noble or praiseworthy. However, lots of people on this forum seem to be intent on calling it a "rape", so if there is going to be some mass movement to redefine the word, then please just say that is what the agenda is. As for the act itself, producers D&D would be wise to ignore these accusations and continue to produce the best show for what GoT is intended to be.

One of the most unfortunate repercussions of the show being such a global sensation is the fact that too many liberal, Hollywood types want to step in and push Martin to the side while infusing the same, boring formulaic tv scripts that lead to shows being canceled. The Wire was great, but it did lag a bit in the story for a rather odd period during the middle of the series. And at least House had the writer's strike to blame bad writing on.

Sansa's..."rape", was supposed to represent the total destruction of innocence in Westeros. Don't get me wrong, she is a spoiled brat and she caused the death of her father, but she had dreams that were pure and good. The dashing prince coming to sweep her off her feet and take her away to a castle. Lemon cakes and tea served for her and her handmaidens. A strong son born to her lord and king, her line continuing on for ages to come.

We are quick to forget that Westeros history points to there being a time like that in ages past, but as society slowly crumbled, such ideas became dreams dreamt by empty-headed children, just like Sansa.

How far has Westeros fallen, when people now ridicule those with dreams of songs and flowers and lemon cakes at midday? Sansa, though a moron, represented innocence. Ramsay's brutality, and his ability to marry her and lawfully carry out his brutality on a member of the most noble house in the north, with no resistance, is symbolic of the decline and fall of House Stark, and the North in general. Theon, an Ironborn, the bringer of Winterfell's destruction, himself humbled and emasculated at the hands of Ramsay Bolton. The scene is awful, terrible, tragic, heartbreaking, and disgusting. That is the story of Winterfell. This is the heralding of the end of the north.

Wow, but some posters had to go out of their way to force their views down the throats of others, screaming sexism and making barely legal public statements about D&D's sexual proclivities and reasoning for including this scene. To make judgments without really thinking about the complex world which has been painstakingly planned and expanded for more than a decade, calling a still in progress manifestation a blatant and intentional declaration of sexism and silly made up terms like "empowerment through rape" is a disgusting practice that I feel should also be carefully watched by mods.


2. Yes, the writing is downright goofy at times, but please stop complaining about how Lady Olenna and the Tyrells "did nothing" about Loras and Margaery being taken away. The events happening at King's Landing are a series of highly complex, politically relevant moves made between different Houses vying for power. Lady Olenna can;t just say "Guards, seize them!!!" or something out of a Saturday morning cartoon, because they are literally surrounded by maybe fifty or sixty Faith Militant, hanging out outside the room, in the hallways, and outside guarding the entranceway. The Kingsguard and soldiers present could probably cut their way through a few dozen or so no problem, but then they would also have to contend with the crowd of supporters outside who would form up into another angry mob.

Also, you must remember that the place of Inquisition is more than likely at a holy space, so the guards having weapons at all would most likely be a sign of respect or a false sense of security for the nobles who would refuse to show up if they thought they would be in danger too.

As for the ridiculous "WHERZ DA TY-RELL ARMEE?" question, Olenna is not the head of the Tyrell command. She wields heavy influence, yes. But that bumbling bumblefuck (or is he?) Mace Tyrell holds that honor. Oh yeah, and remember how Cersei managed to have him "escorted" by Ser Meryn supposedly on a sensitive diplomatic mission to the Iron Bank? Well, I guess a lot of people have forgotten about Cerise's penchant for having people randomly locked away in cells. She conspired to have Marg and Loras thrown in jail, and it's reasonable to assume she conspired to have Mace secretly locked up and held hostage, so if the Tyrell army decided to attack, they would be stopped from doing so? I wonder how in depth people even bother to watch this series. I imagine for some people it involves staring at the screen with a glazed look in their eye, followed by a sudden spark of interest if Jaimie's sword glints in the Dornish sun just right.

As for the Tyrell army itself, Olenna nor Mace can just waltz up to the gates of king's Landing and demand they open up. Remember, these people got sacked by the current ruling class a few years ago, and if the Tyrells were to attack, it would be high treason, unless they were to take the throne.

If they take the throne, its not like every House and kingdom will recognize their claim. They will be called usurpers and most will rebel and refuse to obey. Westeros would sink into chaos, which is the reason the Tyrell's need to use Tommen to sire a male heir so that the Tyrells can get the throne through years of patience and without bloodshed, which has always been their way. Like seriously, I read about people accusing D&D not reading the books, but how about posters with negative comments read a history book or watch robin hood or something to get an understanding of how a situation like that would work. You don't just sit on the Iron Throne like some game of musical chairs and then you "win" the Seven Kingdoms.


As for Dorne...well...another post perhaps. :frown5: