Curled Finger

Ah I like Uncle Blackfish showing up to throw a wrench into everything Little Finger may have planned or perhaps simply get up to his own undercover doings. Fun fun fun.

Brienne was born in 280. The current year is 300. She's 20. Renly's tourney is the only sports event we know of that she's ever participated in, presumably that she's ever been permitted to participate in. She's not a tourney knight.

You just rated this 20 year-old kid in the top 10% without actually being a tourney knight.

Thought it better to just post again than edit. Jamie is roughly 33 years old and as you say, not in top physical shape as well as bound. Brienne is approximately 20 and in fantastic condition. This counts for a great deal. At Harrenhal in the bath Jamie takes basic physical inventory of Brienne's femininity but becomes aroused as he notes her incredible strength, I believe in the shoulders and leg muscles. While she may not be Venus de Milo, she is at the very least a fine physical specimen in Jamie's opinion and he has slept with one of the most beautiful women in Westeros. It's clear you are having fun with the OP and I too, am enjoying the fun. This physical competition is great though I think the deal with Jamie and Brienne transcends that simple level. They play off each other and challenge each other to be better on all levels and that includes physically, bounds and condition be damned. While I maintain that Brienne probably could whip Jamie's ass, I think he could have been a great teacher for her. He is after all, a legendary swordsman and she is not, which may be the point you are making here. This loss of Jamie's sword hand is supposed to balance something in Jamie. Make him a better person I guess but also to do something for Brienne, make her believe in the man under the moniker Kingslayer I guess as well. They will make a far better team than adversaries at any rate. I would still like it all much better if you would just yield.

This section is a book forum. There is an entirely other section for show discussion. Why would the show impact any of our discussions? Brienne is a badass. Just yield.

That right there is the question. Who can Sansa really trust? At least Jeyne sorta had Theon/Reek after the fact. I don't know if Myranda is simply provocative or undercover FBI for her dad. Something is at play with her, just not certain what. It's easier in the North as we see through private conversation that there are conspiracies in the works. We don't really get much of that. Some grain price fixing, some fancy hostage taking, some fanciful word play from Shadrach, but nothing really overt. The Vale has been in stasis for the entire story, contained in it's own private withdrawal eager to join the fray. After all that typing and musing I wonder if it isn't even a matter of trust. Is any information that would come to Sansa a vehicle for her own manipulation of Little Finger?

The point is they are well matched. That's all. Brienne is a contender period. Yield.

Instead she forced him back into the brook again, shouting, "Yield! Throw down the sword!" A slick stone turned under Jaime's foot. As he felt himself falling, he twisted the mischance into a diving lunge. His point scraped past her parry and bit into her upper thigh. A red flower blossomed, and Jaime had an instant to savor the sight of her blood before his knee slammed into a rock. The pain was blinding. Brienne splashed into him and kicked away his sword. "YIELD!" Jaime drove his shoulder into her legs, bringing her down on top of him. They rolled, kicking and punching until finally she was sitting astride him. He managed to jerk her dagger from its sheath, but before he could plunge it into her belly she caught his wrist and slammed his hands back on a rock so hard he thought she'd wrenched an arm from its socket. Her other hand spread across his face. "Yield!" She shoved his head down, held it under, pulled it up. "Yield!" Jaime spit water into her face. A shove, a splash, and he was under again, kicking uselessly, fighting to breathe. Up again. "Yield, or I'll drown you!" And the woods rang with coarse laughter. Brienne lurched to her feet. She was all mud and blood below the waist, her clothing askew, her face red. She looks as if they caught us fucking instead of fighting. Jaime crawled over the rocks to shallow water, wiping the blood from his eye with his chained hands. Armed men lined both sides of the brook. Small wonder, we were making enough noise to wake a dragon. "Well met, friends," he called to them amiably. "My pardons if I disturbed you. You caught me chastising my wife." "Seemed to me she was doing the chastising." The man who spoke was thick and powerful, and the nasal bar of his iron halfhelm did not wholly conceal his lack of a nose. ASOS Jamie III

That's BS. Jamie is awed by Brienne's strength and prowess. I know you are just being provocative with the rest.

Brienne does a pretty good job whipping Jamie's ass.

Oh I live for the few precious posts that light you up!

Thanks for joining in the conversation. I will take a bit, the tiniest bit, of exception with Sansa not knowing half of what LF has done. She's been on the receiving end of his unwanted affections and witnessed the murder of her aunt so I think she is fully aware of what he can do. Or perhaps I mean to say she's frightened of him. I would be. I think that's where she's able to divide her thoughts and retreat into this Alayne persona completely. Gag. Speaking of unwanted affections do you think LF will allow his precious Alayne to wed anyone? He seems to be encouraging her seduce Harry, to seal the deal as it were. I'm not convinced LF would actually allow anything physical here. He's creepy that way, or at least seems to be. As our friend @Hugorfonics says, it is a mindfuck.

Sansa is in a strange place in the Alayne TWOW chapter...if it remains unchanged. Lots of moving parts. So many people coming into her space and lots of drama. This tourney screams for intruders and intrigue. The chapter begins with Sansa thinking about her father Ned but very quickly turns into this Alayne persona who thinks of Baelish as her father. You know I think this is just bizarre. I think it speaks volumes on Sansa's intestinal fortitude and will. She is a lot stronger than she's given credit for so much of the time. As you point out, pretty much any one could show up at this tournament. Shadrach is already there and we should be on the lookout for others in the form of mystery knights in the melee. Whether this is how and when Sansa makes her escape is anyone's guess. Personally I would love to see her get away all quietly right under LF's nose and see the Vale lords just use LF for kindling for a giant bon fire. Still, what do you suppose happens when Sansa is still stuck in the Vale and does find out Arya's married to Ramsay Bolton? Jon Snow is dead? Stannis is marching on Winterfell?

Not really, my friend, Little Finger is an opportunist before anything. His taking Jeyne Poole has a reason. It's simple deduction that puts her in brothels. She's 12 so where would she best serve his purposes. It's doubtful she's a great money launderer or thief. It's unlikely he was so prescient to know the little girl would play so largely into his future plans with Tywin. 'Twas only luck that he had her at all. Right time, right girl. It was simply a good move to take Jeyne at the time and I haven't the imagination to see what else he might have done with her. Oh yes, quite right about home. I think I posted and headed off to reality. I thought about your being a romantic and wondered what you might think of Sansa and Harry rushing off like foolish Young Turks, Northbound and alone. Of course Harry would die some horrible death but Sansa would be beyond LF's grasp and have the ability to get home finally (though not the way we anticipated). That older guy with Brienne would be Hyle Hunt, not Jamie. Jamie would be really busy at this point! Not necessarily a romantic, I just like the idea of Little Finger's carefully laid plans blowing up in his face and Sansa being able to grow a pair of cajones.

I would think that a young northern girl would be great for Little Finger's brothel business. Wouldn't that be sort of exotic offerings in Kings Landing? I'm not sure what Sansa can do for Arya or anyone she thinks may be Arya, but I think the thought of Arya could light a fire in her. Not armies and all that, but really stir a longing for home in Sansa, change her somehow. Perhaps make her amenable to a big goofy blonde chick with a little boy and older knight who come looking for her? Something. Then she gets the story this is not really Arya and she's gone any way, but your Mom, on the other hand...This could be a lot of fun. Can't wait to see where Martin takes it.

Why? Who does this help? Just curious. I never thought about Jeyne coming clean on her real identity.

I can't wait to see this blow up in his face. This is going to be very interesting when Sansa finds out her sister is alive and at Winterfell as I doubt the whole story will reach her regarding escape and Stannis and all that. Will she want to go? Will she write? She hasn't written to Jon and she could have at any time. I made a big deal about Sansa subverting herself but the Alayne chapter nearly opens with her thinking about Ned as her father. Yes, I've been doing some rereading lately. Sansa is deep undercover. Her life depends on staying that way for a while yet. Little Finger says she will have a coming out party soon though I'm unsure why exactly or what needs take place in order for that to happen. Nothing is easily guessed with Little Finger.

"I don't want to leav "I don't want to leave. You promised you'd move me into a manse again after the battle." ASOS Tyrion II She wasn't in the kitchens long. Above is just one of many of Tyrion's plans for ridding himself of Shae. After this he wonders if he can arrange a marriage between Shae and Bronn or some dude named Ser Tallad or if perhaps he can secure her a place in Chataya's Palace of Delights. I have to go back into ACOK to find the rest and will if you need the quotes. Tyrion had no intention of leaving her high and dry. She had no intention of leaving at all.

Didn't Barbary Dustin give a clue that she's on to the game in this?

@Hugorfonicsand @LongRider I actually reread Tyrion's ACOK & ASOS chapters for this article. He is constantly telling himself he's wrong to be doing all the things he does with regard to Shae. Maybe that is 2nd guessing and I just didn't pick up on it. He does think of her fondly but it's more along the lines of just not wanting to be doing what he is doing which is bothersome and wanting to be in an easy place. My take exclusively. He does tell Shae Tysha's story so why doesn't she just bail? Methinks for the same reason she doesn't leave or take the serious caution both Tyrion and Varys throw at her. I think @Nevetsabove mentioned Shae was just relieved to have a serious sugar daddy. Tyrion has offered Shae a virtual retirement package complete with a home and what sounded like a lifetime stipend to just leave a place that was to be sacked very shortly. Still she will not go and prefers to work in the kitchen? I think this is where my greatest stumbling block lies. Shae positions herself contrary to her own well being and common sense. A professional prostitute would take the money and run I would think. She knew she was causing a lot of trouble staying yet became that immoveable object.

Let me remove my stoned reporter persona and just address this as me for a sec. You know full well I am a sap and I love that there. I don't buy it, but it's sweet. What then are you making of old Tyrion's reactions to his circumstances? He hits Penny when he thinks of Shae, twice I think. Tyrion is a wreck. I'm a Tyrion fan and I like his whole falling apart and having to pull himself back together bit. I am particularly fond of Penny as a dwarf and mirror to himself as a dwarf and bit of reality. Don't get the big people angry. I enjoy Tyrion doing tumbling and jousting acts with her. He claims a piece of himself he was never permitted with Penny and these little mummeries. No, I don't go THERE with Penny and Tyrion, but I like their weird little communion. Penny is a nice kid and she sees the good in Tyrion without having to be paid to do so. I hope that's what she leaves him with and he can pull his act together before she's gone. Or soon thereafter. Tyrion never really thought he was really in love with Shae. He knew this all along but kept trying to play by his own rules and thumb his nose at his dad. Tyrion believes he has to buy love, that he is unworthy of any other kind. In striking Penny I see a man who feels used and duped. I don't see love, just anger and self recrimination. What do you see?

Ok, I get it now. Believe you love crazy kid. Someone should. Better you than me this time around.

Timeline says the nuptials were held 6/14/99. Not giving me anything for Alayne TWOW. It's a great point, though. I am guessing that with all the incoming visitors at the Vale for the Tourney that news could just pop right there. You've given us a great idea for next week's edition, though, Thankee, Sai.

@LongRider & @Nevets, nice speculation. All this and she still ends up in the Hand's bed wearing the Hand's necklace. Hope it was a grand few days for her as they were her last. Loyalty is cheap in Westeros.

Oh of course, sorry about that.