Curled Finger

It seems to me somewhere in the recesses of my memory that Wyvern have 4 legs. Could be too much fantasy reading, too. However, those sphinx babies are telling of the blood of the dragon. Of course they were engineered.

I think Doran may have missed the point in his opportunity for revenge and a peaceful outcome. Tywin and Gregor Clegane are dead. Perhaps he should have sent Arianne to Mereen to seduce Dany. That might have gone better. Oberyn was powerful and impressive. Certainly he was the best weapon Dorne had. All else seems to be well, lesser, as Arianne and her cousins are not Oberyn. As opportunity appears in the form of Aegon and Dany, Doran seems to sort of take this as signs. Sending Quentyn wasn't a bad idea at all, though it's clear someone like Oberyn would have been a far more effective choice. Likewise, Arianne appears to be Doran's only candidate for connecting with Aegon though she's already shown herself to be impulsive and a poor judge of character and politics. Still, who else has Doran got but the future ruler of Dorne to entrust with this mission? Poor old guy is really in a tough spot and because his options are so limited to B players this will not turn out well at all for Dorne. Why the deaths of Tywin and Gregor didn't satisfy him I don't understand. Perhaps Doran's is a story about blindness and all his children will have to die before he realizes he had his revenge? I am unclear what the consequences for Dorne with actually be. Civil unrest leading to new management? I can't see any of the powers that be; Lannisters, Tyrells, Stannis or Aegon invading Dorne. What would be the point? Thus, consequences would have to be internal or some catastrophe involving Euron, which all the coastal regions will likely suffer.

Sort of. We know that she is supposed to be the aunt of young Ned Dayne which would make her the sister of Ashara. Insofar as age goes, marrying age could be 12 to 30 for all we know. Arianne, a most eligible bachelorette in Dorne, is 24. Beric Dondarrion is 23 or 24. Gerold Dayne is a little older, late 20s. We have no idea what Allyria's age actually is. She could be 30 for all we know. For all it's worth, I'm unsure what "flowering age" is. Sansa flowers at 13. That would be way too young to be a child of Ashara's. If it simply means child bearing age, well the onset of menses to menopause sometime in middle age, I reckon. Perhaps we should look for other female characters fitting the known appropriate age rather than settling on Allyria as the obvious.

Could be Ashara never slept with either of the Stark brothers and was simply close friends or fast friends with Lyanna. She was a legendary beauty and had many admirers. There is no proof she had a child at all. Likewise, her body was never recovered and like it or not, that does leave an opening for her survival. Why she wouldn't claim her identity could be for many reasons none of which we are privy to. All we can be sure of is Ashara Dayne, Elia Martell's close friend, possibly co conspirator of Rhaegar Targaryen, disappeared very soon after her friends died. Heck of a rash of deaths surrounding Rhaegar, no? Wonder what happened to Jonathor Darry and Richard Lonmouth? Howland Reed? Who else is left from the day?

Far as I know there is only 1 Valyrian Steel greatsword available. It's long been my feeling that Jorah Mormont would wield Heartsbane in the battle for Dawn. A beard covering his tattoos is a neat way to obscure his identity. Whomever this is he does appear to be an old man. Then again, it could be a depiction from the original Long Night. Won't know until we can read the little description at the bottom. Very cool either way.

Cat taking Tyrion to the Vale to stand trial for the attack on Bran was a terrible idea all the way around. Everyone paid for that one.

I don't recall if it was here or in one of the reviews, but somewhere someone said the writing is tailored to things they need to happen rather than things that happen organically in story telling, such as Juliette Lewis wanting to leave the show. The departure scenes at the end stick out in my mind most glaringly. I get Javi being there, but why not have Travis as well? Rumor was that Lewis was unhappy with the character being so centered around Travis in S1 so he was not written into that scene. His spirit absence (and her father's) made no sense because Travis was so central to Natalie! Why not all the other dead Yellowjackets? Javi was the actual turning point of her life? I don't get it. You may be spot on about the writers not knowing what they want to do with the characters. At this point it seems Shauna is safe and Misty has some story in front of her. Do we care after S2? Do we want to go through another 2 seasons of some crisis with Shauna and that stupid cop interfering in her life? Is a great soundtrack worth another senseless death of a character we like a little bit? Do we want to learn that yes, Lottie really is mentally ill and always was or worse, that she wasn't? Do we care where the kids hole up for the remainder for their time in the wilderness?

Can't wait to read all of it!!! Except the Ghost chapters...always hard for me to interpret what the wolves actually see...

That makes a lot more sense to me that trying to bring Jon around. I hope she gets a glimpse of Stannis alive in the flames marching on Winterfell or something. I get the feeling Jon's identity needs to remain hidden for a while longer yet. Rickon hasn't even returned yet. There is a lot of Stark in Winterfell storyline to play out yet before Targaryen supremacy and princes who were promised need to loom large in the north yet.

The cupie doll psycho fell in love with another cupie doll psycho, that's something right? Sorry, your post shook me back to my original reaction: This story doesn't like its protagonists, except maybe Misty. Lottie could have been so interesting in both time lines. Another wasted writing opportunity. I initially thought maybe Lottie was on the chopping block, remote as that seemed. But honestly, I think anyone who was a Yellowjacket is a main character, season 1 characters primarily. Not that Natalie's death wasn't anticipated, it just wasn't the best choice. I don't understand all this addiction and recovery, seeming real change only to have the character die once she appears to make a real connection and break through. Natalie doesn't even take a drink during the last hoorah. There is a hopelessness in killing her off that lacks conscience I think. Her death was a disservice to both characters imho.

I got a lot of the trauma carryover with adult Shauna in the alienation between she and Callie. Shauna is something of a stranger in her own life. It is not well illustrated and it's too bad because Lynskey has a moving range and could have done great things with some well written dialogue and scenes. This telling of this story is leaning into the horror far more than the subtler effects of trauma. It wants to be in your face entertaining you, shocking you. Perhaps it thinks it is provoking you? Then again, Season 2 did give you a miraculous healing of adult Shauna and her family seemingly centered around...a goat and a murder? Somehow, being back in this replica of The Wilderness, even for people who were never part of the original group there, made everything right as rain. Yay Yellowjackets. Everyone gets to go home and live their happy lives. Except the red shirts, 2 of whom were main characters. Is it me in a sub forum of a larger ASOIAF forum or does everyone feel it's a rip off to kill the main character for the simple sake of killing the main character since we met Ned Stark so long ago? There were better characters to kill off than Natalie and Kevin for better reasons that would make more sense in a finale. I just watched The OA. It was cut short in S2 of a planned 5, but it worked brilliantly. It ended, could have gone on, but ended and that was OK, you got the distinct idea. It could be so good if it the writers would just let it be. These mystery box shows need to make sense. Consistently and honestly. Jump scares and gore only take an audience so far.

!!! That's pretty good. He was on his way to deliver the news to Selyse! Exclamation points let you know you are still alive and excited about things. Never cease overusing them!

Yep. But I can see Martin being willing to burn a little girl. He will do it if he really has his mind set on it and it will be horrible regardless how it happens. The idea of a parent killing their own child is so terrible. He's been telling us about it all along with Tyrion and babies being thrown down wells as happenstance. We don't really know much about Selyse. We get what he wants us to see. I don't want to see a parent willingly murder a child. This is where my blood lust stems from.

My money would be on a sure thing with Shireen and Seylse's adamant favor. Gilly's babe? Does Mel know the tale? Of course she knows the tale of Sam the Slayer and the curious circumstances of little monster's birth. *Shudder* But why jump straight to kingsblood? What about being a sacrifice equals kingsblood? Ah, Jon-Stannis bromance. I forgot. It will be difficult for Stannis to deny Jon's awesomeness with that light and fire streaming from his chest, probably hair, too. But it's Stannis, Man, he has to bitch some. He will at least be snide about it or it would not be Stannis who is no man's servant. This would be fun to read. Dany rolling up with 3 dragons? Well I guess we see how Stannis dies then. Jon is described as so plain and we know Dany likes hot young dudes. Hoping the streaming fire light makes him more attractive to her. Where can he get some tattoos to match his cool scars? Maybe his eyes will turn purple? I worry for this kid.

All 100% true and right my friend. Still, I am hoping that in the immediate reading of events at the Wall that happen to coincide with speculation in this topic that Selyse does get squashed or cross bowed or just run through. An avid fan can hope! Do you think it has legs at all? She doesn't even know Stannis is dead yet. What do you think it will do to her faith in R'hllor learning AAR is dead? Will she more fervently turn to Melisandre and her mad faith? Will she turn from it as people sometimes do in the face of great loss? Will she cling to Shireen and try to get away? There could be some good story here with Selyse!

She wouldn't dare. Not for Jon Snow. For Stannis, maybe, but not for Jon. I get that Selyse is a fanatic, but she is the fanatic on top, calling shots, arranging marriages. She has no power in Jon Snow.

You know what I LOVE about this? Mel declares Jon AA and Stannis comes strolling up. I can't wait for that. Delicious!

That's actually a good point. Could be she doesn't know at all.

It's a jump, but I can see it as a possibility since death pays for life or some nonsense is all through this thing. Brilliant catch there. My biggest problem with this is not knowing if anyone knows the babies have been switched and not being sold on Selyse being down with burning her only child. I guess Selyse could be killed off in a mercy killing sort of way. I would find it merciful at any rate as she is just awful. Maybe the wet nurses know? Would anyone listen to them? Val maybe? Val would certainly want to get rid of Shireen. Truth be told, I always sort of thought the Wildlings would burn Shireen, not Mel. Because of the greyscale not a sacrifice. Perhaps it all becomes a happy sort of coincidence Mel can take all the credit for and still slide by Davos with?

My thinking too. Wasn't it all about winning wars previously?

Hrm...According to the Pink Letter Stannis is dead and all Melisandre sees when she asks her flames for glimpses of Azor Ahai is Snow. Are you thinking she puts it together that Jon is Azor Ahai finally and this somehow leads to a sacrafice? Does anyone know the babies have been switched?

After all the talk of reclaiming her birthright? I mean to sail to Westeros, and drink the wine of vengeance from the skull of the Usurper." ACOK Daenerys III I am Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, Queen of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros." ACOK Daenerys IV The sun set in a blaze of red. I am still half a world from Westeros, Dany reminded herself, but every hour brings me closer. She tried to imagine what it would feel like, when she first caught sight of the land she was born to rule. ASOS Daenerys I Remind him that I am Daenerys Stormborn, Mother of Dragons, the Unburnt, trueborn queen of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. My blood is the blood of Aegon the Conqueror, and of old Valyria before him." ASOS Daenerys II No, Dany thought, and the Usurper's dogs will learn that, when I return to Westeros. ADWD Daenerys I

Such as? What do you think she will try to change?

I think the whole thing is stupid, but it is there and we do have to consider the possibility. I don't think we get a literal sword out of it so much as some weird Jon as Lightbringer thing out of it. I don't think the idea of Dany going mad is terrible. Not in Martin's capable hands at any rate. I think he would do her right. Dany is a complex and beautiful character. Why wouldn't she suffer what the broken men do in war? Her heart, Jon's heart too, truth told, could easily be moved by those horrors. Take heart, my friend. There are plenty of mad men in ASOIAF. They simply aren't celebrated as the women are. Madness is a matter of course for our beleaguered brothers in this tale.

I did not think you were. I thought the question was whether or not Dany would kill the Others. Sorry if I misunderstood. Insofar as Dany liberating Westeros from the Others or perhaps simply its own politics, perhaps she will or at least play a large role in affecting that end. I find it interesting that Aegon I waged something of the same campaign. Did the Targaryens make Westeros a better place? In some ways yes, but supremacy of one family or group over others isn't necessarily fertile ground for social, individual or cultural growth said the American who has never known a king. I don't know any way other than voting and majority rule, such as it is. There are problems inherent to this way of choosing people, procedures and rules as much as any other. I have yet to find a perfect way to make everyone happy in a society. What Dany can do for Westeros is take out an oppressive and apathetic ruler and bring wholesale elimination to the wights--maybe provide some serious warmth in places. I don't think she has the training, learning or experience to rule Westeros. She is a conqueror, not a ruler. Can she learn to rule while traveling to Westeros then conquering Westeros? So yes, I agree with the premise that Dany can liberate Westeros to an extent from some of its oppressors.