#teamNightking

Having defended what didn't bother me I will say what did bother me. Especially on rewatch. 

So much so I'd downgrade my rating if I could. 

Bad writing. Way too many "just in time" moments. 

If you did a drinking game and took a drink every time something happened "just in time" to save someone, you'd have no idea how the episode ends cuz you'd be passed out on the floor. 

And the just in time of all just in times Arya saves Bran just in time. And in so doing saves everyone still living just in time. 

It's just hack shock writing taking advantage of the expectation of many heroes dying and stringing together cheap "gotcha" moments. 

So disappointing. 

6/10

11 minutes ago, Ghosts Lunch said:

I can buy the Wights he raised would die but not the WW’s who were living beings

In the show doesn't the Night King create the WW from Craster's sons using some kind of magic? So maybe when he fell they fell. But was that all the white walkers? I'm not sure

2 hours ago, Obsidian Knight said:

The battle strategy was very strange. Dragons could do much more.

I'm pretty sure they were planning to use them to abush the night king and his dragon 2 against 1 when he went for Bran. Holding them back. 

Dany changed the plan when the Dothroki fell. 

Also the plan was for Drogon to light the trench but the blizzard became too strong and she couldn't see. 

At a rough estimate of even 1000 undead burnt per breath attack at 100k zombies it would have required many many strafing runs to make a dent and that's before the second wave was raised. Every run being exposed to surprise attack from NK and undead dragon and or white walker lances potentially. 

Dany really should have tried to hatch more dragons in the preceding years ; )

15 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

While flanking would be less effective against a unit which is unbreakable, it would certainly be better than a head on, uncoordinated frontal charge, which was obviously sucidal

Or it would be like getting hit by a tsunami of undead from the side as they tried to go around. 

1 minute ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

We've already seen the value of trapping the opposition forces in the BotB, so it would have made complete sense for Jon to suggest letting the Unsullied do their thing first to halt the Undead charge and then having the Dothraki attack from each side of the undead forces. Would that have succeeded? Probably not. Would it have been smarter than what they did? Without a shadow of a doubt.

The charge idea they went with was moronic however many bad alternatives you offer.

No matter what they did it would have failed and been seen as moronic. What would have been nice is 5 minutes exposition in the war room discussing strategy and pros and cons. Some arguing. The lack of that annoys me. It would be interesting and very important. But no. We never get that. 

And the show suffers for it. 

7 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Yep right at 1:02. I'm sure she isn't really using him as a shield - it wouldn't make any sense for the writers to write it that way, just appeared that way to me. Probably she has her hand on his shoulder as he uses the same arm to push her out of the way giving the appearance she actually turned him into the sword thrust. I agree though Jorah went out like a boss. 

I watched this several times. I think she's just alerting him to the danger by helping him turn to face the threat from behind as she steps away and the timing was unfortunate. 

4 minutes ago, GilletteMace said:

- the military strategy was just crap. i understand that the showrunners wanted to have danys troops decimated for future reasons, but letting the dothraki sacrifice themselves for no reason at all?

The charge of the Dothroki makes sense all things considered. What else do you do with them?

Take away their horses or put highly effective cavalry inside the castle? (Not to mention I don't think the Dothroki would agree to fight off their horses) No. 

Put them behind infantry? No one does this. 

Excuse them from the fight and save them for fighting Cersei? Pretty sure everyone else fighting would be all, "oh hell no!"

Have them fight defensively from a fixed position? (The Army of the Dead was about to close in and charge) No. 

Send them out in a flanking action? What's the point? They would have been swallowed up. 

Or, use them in a charge (what they do best) and have them retreat back on their horses if necessary? 

Keeping in mind no matter what they do they are all outnumbered about 10/3 and likely to die. 

I don't have a problem with the charge and it provided an awesome visual. 

1 hour ago, Nightwish said:

I wish they offered a better explanation why he had to come down from the clouds and do it himself, at least so we can justify why he lost the war. 

Yeah. Best I can come up with is he was certain he had already won and so why not gloat a little a kill him himself and savor the moment. 

Possibly possessing some humanlike behavior. 

We know way too little about Bran, the Night King, the motivation and history. 

It's all still a bit mysterious. 

Unfortunately so. 

Before they ended this plotline I'd a really appreciated a full and detailed information dump. 

54 minutes ago, Coffeewiththegods said:

But an episode ago bran said due to the mark on his arm the night king ALWAYS knows where he is.

Yep. I forgot that. So I guess maybe it was more of a hey, don't forget about me! Like a provocation. 

Shrug

6 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

but I didn’t feel like it was something her arc had built towards. 

 

It's funny. I feel like her entire arc makes sense towards this. 

Why else all the time spent spent training to be a super faceless woman assassin? 

And the Chekhov's gun dagger was in her possession. 

10 minutes ago, Arya's Sideboob said:

I think he was trying to find the NK with the crows.

Not just find him. Lure him. It was established in previous episodes the Night King can sense Bran when Bran is warging. 

So in a sense Bran tapped him on the shoulder and said "psst hey, I'm over here".

27 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

That makes no sense, if they wanted NK to come to Bran and kill him they wouldn't be delaying anything, since the sooner they kill NK less people die. So 'buying time to lure NK to Bran' is complete contradiction. Bring Bran to the frontline and wait for NK to come since he wouldn't let the dead kill him and kill NK. But I don't think that was their plan. Also fighting outside and then defending the castle doesn't really buy more time, if they were defending the castle with full force it would take longer. 

They had no control over when the Night King would appear. In the scene where Jon wants to wait but Daenerys says "the dead are already here" shows clearly their plan. (also in the "after the episode" this is discussed) The Night King arrived after the army. After the battle started. If he was smarter he wouldn't have arrived at all..

But for some purpose yet to be revealed he wanted Bran dead ASAP and wanted to be the one to do it. 

This is where the storytelling stumbles but can be saved possibly by exposition later if it is explained. 

Yet to be determined. 

25 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

Stop defending poor writing. Frontal charge with light cavalry is pointless. They should send dothraki to the East or West wait for the dead to hit the infantry and then attack from a side. 

They were vastly outnumbered. To flank the undead would have accomplished nothing and with a front of 100,000 undead they would have had to ride a loooong time. Meanwhile the center smashes Winterfell either way. 

Now, if you want to discuss whether or not the Dothroki would have sacrificed themselves willingly for the Seven Kingdoms' survival, their queen or any other reason, that's something I could consider. 

But just maybe they were arrogant enough to believe they would survive. 

50 minutes ago, Ice Queen said:

It's the Song of Ice and Fire, and it's about the War for the Dawn and the harmony between the forces of ice and the forces of fire. The IT is just a sideshow. 

Subject to interpretation. Jon Snow is ice and fire in a way. 

Or Jon and Daenerys end up with the throne. "Ice and Fire" and have a child. 

What GRRM intended we may never know. 

13 minutes ago, briantw said:

I think the two stories will tie into each other in the books, as I think Euron is pretty obviously serving the Others and will probably be the one to bring the Wall down after using his hellhorn to bind one of Dany's dragons to him.

No idea where the show is going with him since they stripped away basically everything that makes him interesting in the books and just made him a generic prick.

Books? Such optimism. Dance was published almost 9 years ago. 

I fear that if we were getting more books we'd of had at least one by now. 

Sigh. 

1 hour ago, Tygett Lannister said:

Probably didn't have enough space in the castle, only explanation. 

Yeah and with thousands of horses too, yes?

They're cavalry. Cavalry charge. It's what they do. 

All these arm chair generals crack me up like there's a manual on fighting an army of undead. 

If they packed inside the castle shoulder to shoulder and the undead arrived undelayed they would have simply "world war Z'd" the walls in a very short time and the plan would have failed. 

What you are seeing is a series of layered delaying tactics in order for there to be time for the Night King to be lured to Bran and defeated by Jon and Daenerys. 

Killing the Night King was their only hope. They'd never actually win the battle and they knew it. 

 So not standard battle tactics.

58 minutes ago, Anarres said:

I have my gripes with this episode, but the biggest surprise is seeing people complain about the writing of the episode by bigging up the most awful of genre-cliche's... prophecies.

I'm glad this zombie stuff is by all appearances over and done with. It's been one of the weakest parts of the show.

Kind of silly in the books too, to be honest. GRRM had the zombies just wandering around or maybe turning left every time they came to the wall all NASCAR style... for years, while the story ignored them. 

It's the "Game of Thrones" not the "War with the Others"

Honestly has it not always been primarily about the Iron Throne?

I think so, and I'm fine with it. 

1 minute ago, TigerA said:

Yea. Have Jaime send a raven to have Edmure released and I'm sure the riverlands would join in. Have Yohn Royce do the same to Robin Arryn to muster whatever is left of the strength in the Vale. Also the Manderlys at White Harbor and I'd think our buddy Lord Glover might want to chip in or lose his head for not sending forces to Winterfell. Could also pick up Meera and her father and house Reed on the way south. Maybe have Jon/Daenerys legitimize Gendry as a Baratheon and get support of the remaining forces in the Stormlands as well as making Samwell Lord Tarley, Lord Paramount of the Reach and warden of the South.

Yep. The next two episodes will probably be politics and gathering allies. 

Last episode, battle for the throne.  

1 minute ago, srorol said:

eight years of white walkers being unstoppable and a cartoonist low-budget Jackie Chan move does them in. 

But who didn't see it playing out exactly like this as soon as it was mentioned in a previous season and they (the characters) discussed that when a white walker dies all the dead it has raised die with it? 

And the Night King destroyed by the valyrian steel dagger from season one? 

By Arya, after spending all that time training to be a sneaky assassin? 

It was trending this way. 

It appears Cersei won in the Cersei vs. Night King for who the worst bad "guy' is.  

This wasn't the finale so I'll suspend final judgement. 

2 minutes ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

All I am really saying is that its not certain that the same charterer will do the same things in the books. Frankly I would be willing to bet that for some details Martin will write it differently just so its different, if he ever write an ending.

Until such time as GRRM proves otherwise, I'm becoming more and more suspicious that the book series will never be finished. Maybe not even Winds. 

3 hours ago, Stark_in_Winterfell said:

Ghost shrunk. He was a normal sized dog. They forgot to feed him.

Haha yes! I'm surprised this isn't being talked about more. They finally show Ghost after so much time and he's... shrunk to the size of a large Husky. 

Fail.

1 hour ago, Yukle said:

For Dany to have a man come to her is treating her as a person, and that's what she craves most of all.

That and "bend the knee". She seems to want that a lot too. 

20 hours ago, iprayiam said:

Poor Aegon 1. Imagine if your dad divorced your mom, disowned you, and then named his new kid your name on top of it. What a kick in the nuts

Yep, no two ways about it, Rhaegar was kind of an a**hole... 

What I find frustrating about the wrong side of the wall is that it just so blatantly disregards internal consistency and logic. If they couldn't reach Eastwatch due to storms and it being unsafe to sail, which would make sense, they should have just showed that (or at the very least insert some dialogue mentioning that). If they reached Eastwatch and Jon decided he couldn't just let loose the wildling bunch south of the wall yet and keep them under control that's a big decision I would have liked to have seen the discussion. But to assume as the show implied that they landed in Eastwatch and then decided to make their way back to the north side for some unknown reason with a massive undead army not all that terribly far away and they decided to not put the wall between them...just doesn't make sense and makes Jon look like an idiot.

I think if they wanted to sell the 20 men thing better they should have made the storm more visibly worse. Like can't see your hand in front of your face from blowing snow...sell sword sentries are huddled around fires for warmth not paying attention.

Ramsay's Rambos strike just before dawn in white camo with lots of oil and combustibles and in groups of 2. Totally believable? Better than what we got. Or hell, just show that Mel did it, Ramsay got lost on the way. Hmmm maybe thats why the tents burst into flame with no one around?

Oh, it wouldn't have hurt for a couple of them to have been killed or captured either. But hey, it's Ramsay...someday, he shall sit the Iron Throne! Well at this rate of success anyway.