Lady Blackmont

Said no one ever.

They are first men with purple eyes. That's why I don't subscribe to E/B+A=J because Jon would just be Ice, and not Ice and Fire.

No, he had a Blackwood paramour. Bloodraven's mommy. There is very little, if any, first men blood in the Targaryen family tree.

How can he and Dany have blood of the first men?

He's the ice? That's a new one. Most speculate that he is going to be a dragon rider.

Why is this conversation still going? Just agree to disagree, I will never allow a stranger on the internet to dictate my beliefs, and I think most of you feel the same way. The topic is pointless to discuss, much less get irritated about.

Does it really matter how much it makes? If I had never read the books, I would love this show. I would say; "This season is only an aberration, it can only get better." In terms of adult fantasy, you can't get anything better than this, and fantasy as a genre is generally underappreciated by adults, as they seem to think about happy prince and princess fairy tales. GoT is great, because it is opening up the world for another genre that now has a large audience, this is something I am very pleased with. Accepting that, ratings and total viewership does not matter. The Hobbit trilogy made millions of dollars, I disliked it, not because of book deviations (which in this case do not apply) but because of ludicrous action sequences and plot. I was half afraid Michael Bay was involved. I'm not saying that GoT appeals to the lowest common denominator or anything like that, but some shows and film do, and people with poor taste abound. Please note that I am not bashing GoT here in the least, rather applauding it. I'm just saying that both sides need to put down their flags and statistics (many of which are obviously invented) as they do not effect the quality of the show. As we know, quality =/= popularity.

I'm glad we're finding some common ground here. :cheers: The build up in the North was definitely my favorite part of the books.

I completely agree that sending Sansa away from the Vale was a good move, there is enough sitting around elsewhere. But the way it was handled, both traveling and actions when there, was atrocious. A Stark in Winterfell has great potential, but her presence there was out of place, and they didn't make enough changes elsewhere to compensate. It's comparable to Brienne and Jaime in KL before the purple wedding, a nice move, but I don't think they considered the complete picture. There are a host of alterations that must be made in order to bring in new material and keep some of the original things. This is the primary reason why I think they should just write their own work, instead of using book scenes in illogical situations. Using the Shae-Tyrion-Tywin arc as an example, they could have done so many things with the ending, but they decided to stick more or less with book material. I think it would have been a better arc for each of them if they had just written it originally.

And then genius LF tells Cersei that he has Sansa and has married her off to Ramsay. LF has brilliant schemes in motion and then... Fuck it. I guess I'll ditch my wards and run to KL. Oh, and the Boltons are overtly giving you the finger Cersei. They seem to be marrying a criminal wanted by the crown. This is so much better than the books could ever have been.

Someone made a stupid comment, get over it.

She had no agency whatsoever. It's not like anyone (Varys maybe?) would be willing to send her across the narrow sea. She was Tyrion's prisoner and victim. For sure.

I don't think the writers care to give them logical motives. We saw that this year with LF.

I interpreted his facial expression as more along the lines of shock. And he showed no anger when fighting her off or strangling her. Book!Shae had to deal with a very angry Tyrion, and she was totally calm about it. She tried to seduce him.

Yep, Shae is really where I lost faith. I mean, they make her actually love Tyrion, and then they have her testify, okay, I guess she was threatened in the show's world. So why did she pick up the knife? Hell, I was half expecting tyrion to knock her out, followed by Cersei hanging her next season. Tyrion can do no wrong, and thus those around him must make irrational decisions.

The rant and rave thread travels too fast, and it is generally just involves a bunch of people agreeing with each other and ripping on D&D. I don't hate the show, I'm just very disillusioned with the direction GoT is traveling.

Reading comprehension fail, I am refering only to the group that have not read the books. Not that anyone who doesn't like them hasn't read them. I do not think that anyone here is being dishonest, and many here who do not like them have previously claimed to have read the books.

Back when Season 1 was in production, D&D found themselves short in terms of run-time. It was a low-budget operation back then, so they added a lot of scenes of just two or three characters talking in one room as a way to pad their show. Originally, these scenes were thought of as the shining stars of the series (Varys vs. Littlefinger being almost like a spy vs. spy). Then they turned into… Varys: I did what I did for the good of the realm. Yes, good. This is in keeping with what we know of Varys’s characterizations in the book. Except for the part where he’s confronting Littlefinger (LF) but w/e. Baelish: The realm. Do you know what the realm is? It’s the thousand blades of Aegon’s enemies- a story we agree to tell each other over and over, until we forget that it’s a lie. What? LF has always kind of worked within the system and played the political game for his own long-term strategy. Is more opportunistic than nihilistic, but maybe okay, it’s just his way of being like “I’m so above the game the high lords play.” Let’s see where this goes: Varys: But what do we have left, once we abandon the lie? Chaos? A gaping pit waiting to swallow us all. Well Varys and Illyrio are actively working to create chaos within the realm so that it is ripe for the taking, but because they have a plan in mind Varys might be inclined to view chaos in and of itself as a negative? Maybe? image Baelish: Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Yes, that’s what we just said–both Varys and LF need the realm fucked up “Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again.” Um. Because they die trying to turn political strife into opportunity? Okay, we guess that’s a thing. “The fall breaks them.” Oh they’re not dead? Or they’re just done trying to make sense of it? Only some can handle “the climb” aka political machinations that thrive on chaos and despair? “And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse.” Sure. Some people don’t like to be opportunistic dicks or in politics at all (see Aemon). Boy it would be great if we had some imagery of people climbing. Is anyone CLIMBING something this episode? Let’s pan to them. It’d be so thematically awesome and not ham-fisted. image “They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.” Tricks are something a whore does for money. No seriously, people who don’t want to have chaos in the realm because of suffering of others are clinging to illusions? Love is an illusion to LF despite the fact that it’s still blinding him to true “success” in his plot? Actually isn’t that the one thing that we can say for a certainty about LF: his love for Cat? “Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.” But that’s only if you abandon the “lie” of the realm, which you haven’t, and no. Seriously what the fuck is this supposed to be saying? Isn’t the idea that you’re trying to end up on the top of all of this in the end?? We don’t understand why anyone likes this speech. In our opinion, it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. From Gotgifsandmusings. Because I don't need to explain it again.

I don't seem to recall the term "Pussy" ever meaning vagina in Westeros. It's the fact that it doesn't belong in the dialogue. It's tantamount to saying hairdo on screen.

16.38% of this forum thought it was a one. That is roughly as close to 1/9 as it is to 1/3. Do the math next time.

Yeah, that speech about the futility of man or something. Whatever, it was fucking deep. There is no way Martin's text could possibly be better than this epic speech. I mean, it has Lannister bro bonding, remember all of that in the books? It totally exemplifies their relationship, let them mock the handicapped together, the dwarf and the cripple. It was super classy awesome writing.

D&D can write, just not their own material. When they do, we get things like; Chaos is a ladder Smash da beetles Sand Snake patty cake And, "you need a bad pussy." They do very well with book material though.

I think Peter could have done excellent work on the Rhoyne as well. Tyrion didn't have to be in Meereen to see more of Dinklage.

Mostly because him being there changed practically nothing. They could have given his lines to Jorah, or Daario, or anyone for that matter. Basically he was furniture, and I don't see how that is better.