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MoreOrLess

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  1. MoreOrLess

    Fickle Characters

    A lot of that criticism does I think have its root in the show moving past Martin's books although of course it is still operating with knowledge of elements of his future work. This means its knocking into fans pet theories about how the story/charcters should progress much more than it was previously and disagreement with this can easily be challenged into "fan fiction" like talk. Added to that of course expectation around the show is at record levels now which is more likely to have attention focused on the negative. Its perhaps not as simple as "change = bad" but I think all along there's been this tendency to view elements of the show in the context of the book rather than whether they conform to there own logic. Not that I wouldn't say this season didn't have a few leaps of logic though of course but I do rather see why they did so. I do feel the show is naturally drawing towards its finale, the characters and the actors performances for the most part now run the risk of outstaying there welcome IMHO and are best suited to pushing towards big climaxs. The kind of slower plot progress that could have removed some leaps of logic would potentially have risked bogging things down without the freshness to the characters that allowed them to spend several episodes on the road with the likes of Breinne and Jamie or the Hound and Ayra. I suspect actually that this is part of the struggle Martin has, he's shown no signs of reigning in his story that gets ever more complex and difficult to draw to natural climax's hence the massive delays to the books.
  2. Ned would of course still be Jon's uncle and I think it would be easy for Jon to see why he lied to him due to the threat of Robert coming after him were the truth revealed. As you say I think the setup is much more for Jon NOT to tell Dany, his claim would actually have very little evidence to back it up if made aggressively, very different to LF's trial where those convicting him knew he was guilty personally and trusted Bran. However if we have a situation where Jon has hidden it from Dany and she finds out(maybe from Sam?) then its obviously much easier for her to believe it as he would seemingly not be acting for his own gain. After that point things could I think go two ways, either Jon's background only matters in terms of personal drama and potentially abilities(Dragon control, fire resistance) or his claim is given credibility because Dany herself backs it.
  3. MoreOrLess

    Fickle Characters

    I remember the same being true of Peter Jacksons version of LOTR, yes his adaptation was clearly simplified from Tolkiens just as GOT is simplified from Martins but there was a strong tendency from certain fans of the books(which I am) to not give his storytelling credit. The problem is IMHO that its much easier to fall back on mere knowledge of the book as the only standard to meet rather than engaging in more in-depth analysis, if Martin's version is "correct" and anything that differs is "incorrect" things become much simpler. In both cases I think what we really see is that those adapting the story look more towards its over arching tone where as a lot of fans cannot really see the wood though the trees and cling to details.
  4. That vision could be argued to have been fulfilled by Dany turning up with Dragons in tow to the meeting. You could argue that makes sense dramatically since there was tension this season about whether Dany would attack Kings Landing directly with the vision hinting she would but the reality obviously being very different. My guess is that Jon is told next season and his decision whether to tell Dany or not becomes a major(possible THE major) dramatic thread of the whole thing. As you say there are many reasons not to tell her, potential for conflict damaging the war effort with her forces being loyal to her personally, also if she is pregnant by Jon then looking to save the child from being labelled as incestuous just as he was labelled bastard both for its benefit and for a potentially more stable dynasty. I think you can see both conflict and resolution from this though, Dany potentially being angered at the deception and perhaps breaking alliance but also her shifting purpose successfully. I would argue that really the defining feature of the character thus far has been less her claim to the throne and more viewing herself in a messianic fashion, even in this season I think you see a clear shift in her priorities towards the end towards dealing with the threat of the dead and her becoming totally defined by this instead would I think make sense dramatically. I wonder whether we might see a dramatic shift as well in terms of Jon and Dany reversing roles somewhat, previously he's been mostly defined by selflessness where as she has been defined by empathic leadship, maybe the two switch and Dany's story is to die selflessly and Jon's is to lead morally.
  5. The swords remind me of documentary's I'v seen of Trajan, more specifically those the Dacian's used against him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falx Generally though I'd say there more Mongol than anything else although obviously without generalship as strong as in the era of Genghis Khan. In terms of archery though we've never really see them in a situation where it would have be best for them to focus on it, as with the son of the harpies they caught there opponents with their pants down again.
  6. MoreOrLess

    Why is Bronn so loyal to Jaime?

    Indeed, he's pretty much Jamie's man and if he dies then any future reward goes up in smoke were as Cersei was paying him not to fight for Tyrion.
  7. The mongols that there partly based on conquered half the world mostly via horseback archery. In terms of "what if's" as well in this situation they knew they'd caught an enemy by supprise and that dragonfire was going to help break their lines so a very direct attack was best, you could argue against a more organised force they would use more archery from range and spend more time trying to outflank there opponents.
  8. To be fair though wasn't that a lot of the lesson of the end of the first season? Dany being brought down to earth with a bump about what her alliance with Drogo actually entailed? Generally I'd disagree that her questionable actions aren't dwelt on, in season 5 for example the crucifixions of the masters were referred back to as having killed those who argued against doing the same to the slaves previously. Danys whole story has been a case of walking the line between empathy and pragmatism with the faults of the latter highlighted to her many times by various advisors. What the show was obviously trying to sell in episode 3 as well was I'd say that Dany has narcissistic tendency's with a realistic look about why people develop them. Most of the time narcissists use it as a defence mechanism to deal with trauma and low self worth that comes with it. Just a guess but perhaps the finale climax is going to have Jon and Dany switch roles? that is Jon the character who's always been defined by his willingness to die for others has to live to make tough decisions and Dany the character who's been defined by doing just that has instead to accept a selfless death.
  9. MoreOrLess

    About paintings in the cave

    It might be an over active imagination but if you look at the figures Jon mentions to Dany as representing men and children of the forrest working together doesn't one of the three large ones on the left have something familiar about it? https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/nintchdbpict000344401611.jpg?strip=all&w=960 Is it me or does that look like Jamie? holding the dragonglass dagger left handed and his right hand is pointing straight downwards with an open palm just as Jamie's replacement hand does, you can even see a line on the arm where it attaches.
  10. Again my guess would be that Martin has probably had a firmer grasp of the "end game" for much longer and its more the way in which he moves his pieces into position for that which is more fluid so the show and the books will likely converge again as we get towards the end.
  11. I would point out as well that ASOIAF/GOT already has a very high turnover of characters, there has always been a high degree of "will people carry on watching if there favourite dies?" talk yet they have in ever greater numbers. One big issue for me is that if you make a prequel of something like The Dance of Dragons do you fundamentally change what kind of story your telling? For all the talk about "shades of grey" and for all the complex politics I think the core of ASOIAF is that it is still a moral heroic adventure, characters like Jon and the threat of the walkers cut though the politics and personal ambition/revenge with a higher moral position. You go back to something like the Dance and is the same going to be possible? You have the outline of how the plot might unfold from Martin but you could argue that's all it was ever intended to be, extra detail without the same elements that make ASOIAF what it is. Doesn't mean it cannot be worthwhile I spose just that it would likely be different.
  12. My guess is that the end game on the show will actually be a lot more similar to the books(when/if they ever see the light of day) that what we've seen over the last couple of seasons. It seems very likely that Martin will collapse down his story as well and when he does you'll lose a lot of the need to plot streamlining we've seen recently.
  13. Yeah I'd agree with this, I think the whole point with Roberts Rebellion is that so much of the drama within it remains unresolved and is carried forward to the events were now seeing. In terms of what else they could do I'm not sure following existing characters is a great idea, Martin created characters to tell a specific story and moving beyond that very often presents significant problems plus your potentially undermining the current story and indeed assuming there will be much left to carry on with. Dunk and Egg being short might not be THAT big a negative, especially if the production follows directly on from GoT meaning there aren't the startup costs, half a dozen episodes can still make them a lot of money. For something longer involving the not too distant history thern I think the Dance of Dragons makes a lot more sense that Aegons conquest, the former I think has much more potential for effective drama. One thing they could do I spose is go way back and cover the original long night, especially if the idea that Bran might potentially become Bran the builder himself somehow(maybe Warg into someone elses body)? Of course another alternative for HBO(and maybe D&D) might just be to move onto another story, as mentioned earlier I would love to see Dune given a go and it does seem well placed to tap into the same market.
  14. Honestly I think that's the mind-set that sets you up not to enjoy an adaptation, that any change must somehow be a criticism of the original work. In this case I think the first season/book is definitely the easiest to adapt relatively straight, your dealing with a considerably less complex narrative at that point. Personal opinion as well but I think theres also more of a danger in a TV series outstaying its welcome than there is with a series of books, I think theres likely to be the material there that D&D could have produced 10 seasons or more but would things have remained as fresh during that time? I can think of a lot of exellent show that very clearly peaked well before they actually ended, often for that reason.
  15. Tywins death of course changes the situation as that both removes Roose's direct ally and the most potent military/political leader who could either aid or oppose him. Even prior to that though I think the show plays down the actual aid the Bolton's might expect exactly so that Ramsay marrying Sansa makes more political sense, the Boltons rule more because there the most powerful remaning force in the north. The show definitely tends to put its characters before its politics compared to the books but honestly I think it does a decent job of the latter the vast majority of the time, little stands out to me as distractingly illogical even if its often lacking the same detail or subtlety.
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