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phyrric

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  1. phyrric

    The Frey civil war.

    May I take a moment. To make a truly cogent argument please adhere to the following rules: 1) spell the word correctly 2) make sure your grammar is correct (Thus building credibility) 3) read your opponents post thoroughly not just scan read as you may miss his point entirely. 4) appreciate other opinions and absorb them into your thinking. Now afaic there will be no civil war. Preston makes huge leaps of assumptions (btw stating assumption as fact makes it no less an assumption). Top and bottom of the argument we do not know Baelish's plan. Yes we can make assumptions based on derived knowledge i.e. deduction but that is at best a guess. But his STATED desire is for chaos. I understand order comes from chaos and that may be his overall aim but we do not KNOW that and can only assume. It is my opinion that that the genius of GRRM and his writing is that we are able to interpret and extrapolate from the characters and their actions that whuch we wish to see. For example I thoroughly understand tropes are "subverted" but are they? The elder son perceived as the hero only to fail only for the ostracized/ prodigal son to return? Yeah that aint new amigo. However we all see what we want to see. Some see the hero fail and sigh, some cheer. Some see Jon Snow as a conflicted individual, others as a good 2 shoes, self righteous bastard. One thing that is irrefutable is that GRRM has painted his characters as human. Sometimes good sometimes bad, sometimes correct sometimes not. Now based on thisit is possible to derive that some Frey are good whilst some are not. Some of Baelish's plans work some do not. Simply put apart from the house, there is no black and white. Following this argument to the end, there can be no Frey civil war. Baelish's plan cannot possibly extend that far as, following the info provided by GRRM, he largely capitalised on situations and doesn't plan that far ahead. Furthermore Freys may try to throw each other over the boat but no-one would be stupid enough to hole the boat UNLESS they were able to guarantee benefiting. With Walter in place, LSH and BWB this is not the time to attempt a family coup. Ergo Baelish's plan for a Frey civil war (should he have one) cannot work. But as I stated earlier that is GRRM taking my personality and placing it in the subject matter i.e. careful, methodical and planned
  2. First time poster longtime reader so please go gently gang. After watching season 7 episode 3 (spoiler alert) a little idea started to percolate so I thought I would throw it out there for consideration. I'm sure by now we have all read the theories that Cersei and Jaime are actually the product of Aerys The Mad King having carnal relations with their mother. But I'll summarise anyway. Briefly the theory goes that Aerys, infatuated with Johanne Lannister and to slight Tywin, took advantage of Johanna during the bedding ceremony at her marriage to Tywin. This ties in neatly with time scales but also throws a deeper irony into Cersei and Jamie's assertion of being True Lannisters and also Tywin's insistence that Tyrion is not his son, when in truth he is the only true Lannister. The actions of Cersei appear to support this theory and there are some huge coincidences that have arisen from this. I know this is only the show and that there are several inconsistencies between show and novel but believe that there is some hint to the forthcoming novels, additionally as GRRM has gave the ending to the show runners but not the journey this may be their way of reconciling several issues to reach the planned conclusion. These coincidences are listed briefly but I'm sure that others can think of more. 1) Aerys, prior to his downfall, plotted to blow caches of wild fire under the city. Cersei achieved this. 2) Aerys saw plotters and conspiracies everywhere. Cersei has stated she does on numerous occasions. 3) Both appointed "learned" men i.e. a defrocked maester and a pyromancer as "hand of king/queen" to facilitate in the demise of their enemies. 4) Both become sexually aroused after their horrific actions - Aerys after burning captives alive, Cersie after torturing and killing captives (Ellaria Sand and I think Tyene? Correction gladly accepted) 5) Jaime was a kingsguard to both. It is the 5th point that made me think. What if Aerys was their father and his madness was inherited by Cersiei. History may not just repeat itself here but also in the fact that Jaime realised the danger of Aerys and will repeat his actions i.e. kill the hand of the king (in the latter case Qyburn) then slay Cersei. (Neatly tying in the Valonquar theory). It is my belief that the repetition of history won't end here. As with Roberts Rebellion, Jaime will be found at the Iron Throne and the assumption will be made (as Ned did) that he wants the throne for himself and as his prior actions and inner monologues have indicated, he won't attempt to correct their ill-judgement. The irony being that a twice kingslayer and twice kinslayer (as would be now known) would actually be one of the most honourable men in Westeros (GRRM neatly subverting the trope of reputation and reality again). Apologies if this is a repeat but all feedback is appreciated.
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