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King of the Narrow Sea

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  1. King of the Narrow Sea

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    Lol no he did not. He went to Summerhall, the place he loved best, all the time. He played his harp, which he loved more than his lance, all the time, and played the songs that he'd composed while in Summerhall. He trained to be a warrior, something I might add that he should have been doing already if he were any other noble as that was neglected, but nowhere does it say that he stopped learning or reading books like he loved to. His best friends were the men who he met through training to be a warrior. The only thing Rhaegar ever sacrificed was marrying Elia in an arranged marriage, and even then he actually liked her and wasn't upset with his marriage. He didn't love her, but he did like his wife, and she happened to give him the Prince that Was Promised. And it's not a sacrifice considering literally 99% of nobles, including his mother and father, did the exact same thing he did and married someone chosen for them. Nor was he even in love prior to the marriage like his mother was or tons of other nobles which would have made going through with the marriage to Elia difficult and testing his dutifulness. Marrying Elia is the only duty he ever did. Everything else was his own choice. He never had a duty to "save" the realm, he just thought that he did. That's not duty, that's personal choice. I really don't understand what I'm supposed to be so sorry that Rhaegar had to endure that warrants him getting a "pass" for having been so incredibly dutiful that he apparently needs one with Lyanna. He had an incredibly easy life and got everything he ever wanted and decided to do one more thing that he wanted to, just as he always had before.
  2. King of the Narrow Sea

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    Exactly what was it that Raegar ever did that was so miserable and such a burden that we should pity him during his life?
  3. King of the Narrow Sea

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    Which occurs 4 years after Lyanna's already dead and not at any point during her life...
  4. King of the Narrow Sea

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    Rhaegar was never trying to do something about his father though. What he actually did was think about doing something and never went through with it. There's a difference and you don't deserve any praise for having just thought that something should have been done. If Rhaegar had actually taken steps to dispose his father than he should get praise for. Instead by Rhaegar's own mouth before he left for the Trident he never took those roads. He didn't do anything. Sorry but that's just not true Robert didn't just do nothing and wasn't offended or didn't care, he vowed to kill Rhaegar for what he did to her. He was absolutely pissed when he found out, enough that he decided that Rhaegar had to die. As to the idea that Robert and Ned did nothing about Lyanna's abduction and didn't care until their own heads were called for, again that's not true, and has unfortunately been spread among the community as a genuine belief, because it's just a huge distortion that completely ignores the context of the situation that Robert and Ned were under when everything went down: Robert and Ned were in the Eyrie. Saying that they did nothing when they weren't in their own lands to do anything about it is just ridiculous. Exactly how do you think that Ned or Robert are supposed to do anything about the affronts done to them, when they have no armies at their disposal to do anything? They are entirely in Jon Arryn's mercy at the moment... which is why the rebellion starts with Jon and not them. Because Jon was in the position that they weren't in to start the war. What did you want them do exactly? Ride in to King's Landing by themselves? They need their armies and that requires them to first go home. Like actually think about that for a second. Jon Arryn calls his banners and starts the war... and what happens to Ned and Robert? They go home and do the same. Not Jon Arryn calls his banners and starts the war and Ned and Robert call their banners from the Eyrie and fight side by side Jon's army until the northern and Stormlands armies can all unite somewhere somehow. Because that can't happen. Ned and Robert need to first get out of the Vale before they can ever do anything. Which is literally exactly what happens. They get out of the Vale and immediately call their banners when they actually can. And even without all that, saying Ned and Robert did nothing first entirely presumes that they ever even knew that anything had happened until the message from Aerys arrived at Jon Arryn's castle asking for their heads. Which is never stated in the books. It's a complete invention to say that they knew that Lyanna had been kidnapped, that Rickard and Brandon had died, etc. and did absolutely nothing about it until their own deaths were called for. All the books actually say is that when Aerys called for their heads, with no mention at all of why, they revolted There is zero mention anywhere that they knew what all the stakes were prior to this, other than that their own heads had been called for. There is no mention of Ned's reaction to learning about Brandon racing to King's Landing or anything. He might and probably did know about all these events before his own head was called for, but it's never mentioned. Which means that treating it like it was is entirely on you and not on anything that GRRM ever wrote. You are entirely presuming he knew about everything and willingly choose to do nothing. He could have, but don't treat it as fact. It's just as much a "fact" that Ned simply learned everything in the message that called for his head. Nothing's mentioned in the books about what they knew prior to that moment, or when they learned anything at all. It's all just your presumption that they had to have known, and you "knowing" that they knew and did nothing with the knowledge makes it look like they didn't care. Why focus on and speak negatively of only those who think negatively of the character? If you were unbiased you should be saying that it's pretty sad that there's also tons of people who love a fictional character that they don't really know seeing as none of us really know Rhaegar as he's been dead for 15 years by the time the books start, and that they should all instead go out and get laid. You can't just say that it's stupid to hate the character without having enough proof to "warrant" it, but not say that it's equally as stupid to love that same character. Everybody has the exact same amount of space in the books dedicated to Rhaegar which is extremely slim. There's not suddenly 200 pages in AGOT or AFFC painting Rhaegar as this guy who deserves nothing but love for everything that he did as he never did anything horribly wrong and was a saint. You come across as a hypocrite, or at worst somebody who's just bullshitting and really just doesn't like that people don't like a character that you personally do. And exactly what did Aerys ever do before he called for Ned and Robert's heads that was so utterly unstable and required the lords of the realm to have attempted to oust him as you seem to think they should have because of it? Like you mention that he was burning people, but left out that he was burning criminals who had lawfully received the death sentence and that was his method of execution. He wasn't burning people who had done nothing wrong, he was killing the criminals of the realm. Same as if he'd just had someone hang them or cut their head off. He was executing people, not murdering anybody. The truth is that there isn't anything. Aerys never did anything before he called for Ned and Robert's heads, which had no justification or warrant, that was terrible for the realm and required action because it was just completely and utterly mad. Which is why nobody ever did anything or wanted to do anything. Because they didn't need to as Aerys was not fucking up the realm in any way. The Mad King earned his nickname at the end of his reign, not across decades of unsupported and completely unreasonable policies and actions which made no sense and couldn't be supported. Maybe he was a little odd and jumped around between ideas, but he wasn't doing anything that wasn't letting the realm run perfectly fine.
  5. King of the Narrow Sea

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    You could do this with Robert too though. For instance he knew that the Lannisters were amassing too much power and knew that he should have done something, but all he did was refuse to abdicate so that Cersei wouldn't rule through Joffrey, and refused to challenge them because they were his kin. That's as far as he was willing to go, but it doesn't change the fact that he should never have let Jaime become Warden of the East, let Cersei kill Lady, etc. Having reasons for inaction doesn't excuse the inaction if you had a duty to see something done properly. Duty isn't supposed to be easy otherwise it wouldn't be a duty. And in both cases we have them not doing their duty to the realm, for whatever reasons they might have had. So for me it's hypocritical for people to say that Rhaegar would have been this amazingly effective king compared to Aerys or Robert. He wouldn't have. He probably would have been a bit better, but we see him shirking his duties just as much as the people he's supposed to be so much better than.
  6. King of the Narrow Sea

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    You can't call Robert a shit king for having known about problems in the realm and not taking care of them, when Rhaegar let his mad and ineffective father rule for years because he just never got around to making the changes that he knew needed to be done and that "oh well let's not talk about that, I'll finally do it when I get back" (and he'd known since Duskendale that he had Tywin's support to be king over Aerys so things go back way further than Harrenhal) Rhaegar was just as lazy and ineffective as Aerys and Robert.
  7. King of the Narrow Sea

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    What exactly is this supposed to mean? Robert was dead by the time word of the Others return reached King's Landing. Joffrey is king during the two major moments when the south learns about the Others, not Robert. Tyrion was Hand when Aliser Thorne shows up saying that the Watch was attacked by wights and Tyrion dismisses it, and Tywin would have been Hand when Aemon's letter about the defeat of the Watch at the Fist by Others and wights arrives (though never see how he reacts, but obviously he never sent them any troops seeing as only Stannis showed up). And Cersei/Kevan never did anything during Tommen's reign despite them knowing that Stannis went north to help the Watch. There's nothing saying that Robert was ignoring the Others. He never knew about them being a threat, but IMO it's one of the reasons that Robert had to die apart from that his death would tear apart the realm: because Robert actually would have marched north unlike Tyrion/Tywin/Cersei/Kevan who did nothing. Robert had been itching for a fight for years. He'd grown bored at how peaceful the realm was and we see him reminiscing about how alive he was during the Rebellion but how dead he is now. He wants another war to feel alive again. If he'd been king when word reached King's Landing that the Watch was being attacked by beings out of legend, and that Mance Rayder had amassed a 100,000 man army and was trying to invade Westoros, Robert would have been the first one there. So I'm not sure what you mean that Rhaegar would have taken action against the Others. Robert would have as well, he was just dead by the time that King's Landing was aware of the threat.
  8. King of the Narrow Sea

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    Can someone update Stannis' page? It reads in the ADWD section     Seeing as GRRM has confirmed that Stannis is still alive in the books, the last line is out of date     http://grrm.livejournal.com/438596.html?thread=22329668#t22329668
  9. King of the Narrow Sea

    Errors in the WOIAF

      Ah okay. Many thanks.   Any comment on my other question though about Yandel knowing that Arthur Dayne, Oswell Whent, and Gerold Hightower died fighting Ned? I don't find it odd as there are plenty of characters who mention that those three are dead so it seems to be common knowledge that they had died at some point, but some were wondering how Yandel knows that the 3 KG died. Is it that Ned had admitted to killing them at some point and Yandel's writing based off an historical record of that? Or is this as the user corbon suggested a continuity error that Yandel shouldn't know?
  10. King of the Narrow Sea

    Errors in the WOIAF

      But it's still Edric's sword. He's just not allowed to use it because he's not the Sword of the Morning (and he's only a squire so he's not even eligible to be it). Arthur died, and the sword went back to the Lord of House Dayne's possession. The Lord just gives it to whoever he deems worthy of it. Edric and Edric's father have both just not deemed anybody worthy of wielding it, but it's still their sword to give out to whoever fulfills House Dayne's criteria of what it means to be "worthy" of Dawn.   There's no distinction in my mind. They just give out the sword to who they want for their lifetime, then it goes back to the lord's possession until he decides another is worthy to wield it. The lord can't wield it unless he himself is worthy, but it's still his sword to give out.
  11. King of the Narrow Sea

    Errors in the WOIAF

      If the Lord of House Dayne is the Sword of the Morning he can...
  12. King of the Narrow Sea

    Errors in the WOIAF

      But Edric still has the sword in his possession. It's sitting at Starfall, his keep, according to an SSM. He's just not personally wielding it and no one else is, but he still owns it. The sword returns to the lord of the house upon it's current wielder's death. It just isn't automatically given out to someone new, but it still goes back to the lord. So what's the actual difference? House Dayne is still just giving Dawn to whoever they deem worthy to wield it. They just decide that no one wields it if no one's worthy but they still are a family that gives out that sword based on worthiness, not lineage.
  13. King of the Narrow Sea

    Errors in the WOIAF

    This passage has always bugged me.     What's really the difference here? Dawn is lent to whoever is deemed worthy to carry it within House Dayne, regardless of who is the current lord. How is that not the same thing as the Corbrays just giving Lady Forlorn to whoever they decided should wield it? Same with any family who decides to give a blade to a family member as opposed to who owns it by being the lord of the house. Dawn is given to whoever is deemed most worthy of it, which is really the same thing as Randyll deciding that Dickon gets Heartsbane over Sam, Lord Corbray giving Lyn Lady Forlorn instead of passing it down to his eldest son, Aenys I giving Maegor Blackfyre instead of giving it to his sons, Aegon IV giving Daemon Blackfyre instead of giving it to Daeron etc.   They all just decided to give the blade to whoever they deemed worthy of it. All that seems special is that House Dayne requires that that person be a knight. But otherwise it's not really a special way of passing on the blade compared to anybody else who decides not to just automatically give it to the next lord so I don't really understand the purpose of this passage or what the distinction being made is supposed to be.
  14. King of the Narrow Sea

    Errors in the WOIAF

    Ran: this has been a topic of discussion lately so going to go ahead and ask this for clarification: How does Yandel know that Arthur Dayne, Oswell Whent, and Gerold Hightower died together?     Did Ned tell people that he had killed the 3 KG and thus it's a historical well known fact that Yandel is reporting here, or did Yandel just report this based on rumors that they had been killed by Ned? Or is it a continuity error that Yandel shouldn't know this as Ned kept it to himself that he had battled and killed them?
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