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watcher of the night

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  1. D&D are not qualified to finish the story of G.R.R. Martin and they were not hired to do it. Instead of that they are acting on a very simple principle that explains the logic of the TV show after they have run out of the source material: surprise. Let’s take the last episode: Melissandre shows up because of surprise. The Dothraki charge because of surprise. The entire “defense” of Winterfell was organised to give the viewers as many shocking event, as many surprise as possible. Arya played hide and seek with the zombies in the library because of surprise. Arya leapt out of thin air because: surprise! There is nothing behind it. There is no deeper meaning, there is no mystery, no prophecy, nothing; it is all about surprise. Stannis were killed because of surprise; the Martells were executed in a brutal way because of surprise; Rose and Ramsay and Littlefinger died the way they died because of surprise; Arya was stabbed by the Waif and survived it because of surprise; etc. They (D&D) do not care about whether it is physically or logistically possible, whether it is reasonable or coherent with the story. If it is not surprising it is not going to be there. They said explicitly after episode 3: Jon and the NK had no duel because it would not be a surprise. The sole measuring stick of storyline building is surprise. This is a TV show, it is about money and interest. Which episodes generated the biggest interest from the early seasons? Ned’s execution and the Red wedding, because of surprise. D&D are not as dumb as many think, they learned the lesson. Episode 4 is directed by the same director who directed the “Rain’s of Castamere” (red wedding). What can we predict from this? There will be plenty of surprises left. What would be the biggest one? If the dead is still “alive”. Everyone thinks that the war with the dead is over, there are dozens of post how disappointing and cheap it was. “As long as I am standing the war is not over” Cersei “Blackfish” Lannister. Cersei is the Night Queen, she is pregneant with the new NK. Qyburn will resurrect the dragons beneath KL, perhaps even Balerion the black dread. There will be a battle at the Trident between the living and the dead (history repeats itself). There will be other surprises as well … (I made the same observation on reddit: surprise)
  2. watcher of the night

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 705?

    The show is succesful despite the storytelling of seasons 5-7 and not because of it.
  3. watcher of the night

    [Spoilers] EP702 Discussion

    The whole show is bereft of logic. They wanted an epic showdown between Jon and Ramsay where the KtoV can ride in the last second and save the day, so they did it. The whole fight was cringeworty from the point of view of both sides; they fought as 6 or 8 year old kid would imagine a "big fight". But it was cinematic, dramatic and it sold out well.
  4. watcher of the night

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 609?

    Well said. I think this is a conscious decision on the part of D&D and I can understand that (though I am not sympathising with their decision!). Once run out of source materials they had a choice to: (a) continue the character drama but they knew they are not upto the task, (b) turn the show into a medieval action hero movie (like Batman vs. Superman) with ice zombies and dragons. They chosed the second option and the ratings show that their move payed off (as people love well coreographed action hero movies). It is just a huge disappointment for those who started to watch the show for the reasons you mentioned (or because of the books) because the storyline also disappeared with the character drama and both were replaced by "ice zombies, dragons, giants and swordfights."
  5. watcher of the night

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 609?

    Please don't take this personal but this statement is bullshit. Please (re)read the battle of Cannae and notice the differences. a, How Hannibal used his cavalry, b, How Ramsay used his cavalry. a, How Hannibal created an encirclement, b, how Ramsay created an encirclement. This battle (BoB) is a plothole galore, it has nothing to do with Cannae.
  6. watcher of the night

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 609?

    It is strawman argument so you can stop it right there. This is an other strawman argument, no one argued that we can do better. Also no one claimed that the show does not have a "passionate group of fans", you are a prime example. The fan base is most likely growing because ice zombies, dragons, tits and fighting. None of these points is a proof that the quality of story telling or writing in the show is high. Reread it. A bit of a reading comprehesion goes a long way. I never called people dumb, I just said that their mind works in a simple way when it comes to rating. It is a fact that episodes with lot of battle/action got the highest rating (ToJ, the door, Bastardbowl, last season Hardhome). This is just that simple. D&D know it and they play up this part. I like the show in general too, the actors as well but the storylines deteriorated or disintegrated in the last season. Even the die-hard fans of the show don't deny a decline in quality of story writing they just brush it aside in favour of dragons, ice zombies giants and swordfights.
  7. watcher of the night

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 609?

    Let's be honest most people are rather simple minded when it comes to high ratings: they want ice zombies, dragons, giants and some badass action scenes and D&D serves them well. This episode is the prime example: many people vote 10 because of the "badass" fights and action scenes and dragons, etc. If heaven forbid someone dares to criticise the writing they come back with the excuse that "OMG a show with ice zombies, dragons, giants and swordfight you worry about X or Y!!! OMG!" So this tells more about the taste of the average viewer and the fact that D&D knows how to cater to this need, rather about the "quality" of the show.
  8. watcher of the night

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 609?

    First of all, idiots can be very popular espacially with other idiots. So this popularity contest idea can be very dangerous. Second, they butchered everything, including the story, characters, personalities, logic and common sense in order to serve up the most boring and most predictable "plot twist". How on earth is this "Emmy winning" story writing? Third, they have no idea how to tell a good strory; they move from plot twist to lot twist, and character personalities an motivations are determined by the need of future plot twists. This is very evident with Davos, Jamie and Jon.
  9. watcher of the night

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 609?

    This is a fat one, I wish there would be a zero option. Idiots, blithering fools. They turned Jon into an idiot, Sansa into a psychopat. They are butchering the story left, right and center.
  10. watcher of the night

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 608?

    Do you really want to argue that bad writingg in other movies and TV shows justifies bad writing in GoT? If not why bring it up? This show is full of plotholes and inconsistencies, it is very difficult to consider it as "good show" any more. Yes, it was good till they had the source material, and that why most of us is still watching. Also, this is a public forum created for the discussion of the show, including plotholes and such, so what is wrong with that?
  11. watcher of the night

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 604?

    Ok, so we have a thought police bot. That is new to me. Oh, a fast demeaning riposte from the thought police!!! Pal, these are your toys.
  12. watcher of the night

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 604?

    We have some stubbon forumites here, right? You guys, yes both of you -apparently the highest authorities on public polls and voting- tell them repeatedly that they shooooould nooooooot vote 1 under any conditions, yet they still dare to express their personal opinions! How dare they do this? Who will stop this heresy?!!?!? It seems that your " Any particular reason why you aren't understanding" bulgeon is not very efficent any longer; you have to take harsher measures!!! ps. since when do we have thougth police on these forums?
  13. watcher of the night

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 603?

    Unfortunately Dany's storyline is utterly predictable: They will take her to the council to judge her. Drogon shows up and fries some of the foolhardy khals. They agree to follow Dany. In the meantime 'wise maesters' of slaver cities lay siege to Mereen. Volanteen fleet shows up. Dany arrives back just in time to break the siege. Yara shows up with the ironfleet. At the end of season 6 Dany has everything in place to sail back to Westeros: dragons, dothraki, ironborn, big fleets.
  14. watcher of the night

    How would you rate episode 602?

    I liked this episode, I think it was much better than the previous one. It had less numerous plot holes and bad jokes. I gave it 7. I liked the Lannister scenes, both Jamie and Tommen was good, I loved the stand off between Jamie and the High Sparrow. Tyrion stole the show from everyone, except you know who ... I am in the camp of people who loved the low key nature of his resurection. When he took that deep breath I laughed out loud, it was both funny and a big relief at the same time. Kind of "so this was all the fuss about ...". Unfortunately it had a few plot holes, I just mention the two major ones. 1, Assasination of Roose. I am in the camp of people who think that it is completely out of character for Roose not to prepare for this option. He is known as cruel, calculating and cunning, there is no way he did not know that a baby boy would put Ramsay in a desperate situation. Also he had to know better than anyone else how egoistic and dangerous is Ramsay. 2, Lack of fight in CB. For me this was a huge, huge let down. I mean after all the great build up, Davos vs. Thorne discussion, epic lines from Davos (“I am not much of a fighter ...”), increasing tensions (hammering of the door, Ghost growling louder with every hit) the NW just surrenders without any fight? WTF?!? It is a huge let down. It is also highly unbeliavable. Not just the timing of the arrival of Tormund and the gang (ofc just before the bad guys break the door) but the fact that not a single arrow was fired at the charging wildlings. The NW had roughly to dozen archers and crossbowmen ready to fire and none of released an arrow at the charging wildlings?!?! WTF? They support Thorne because they hate the wildlings; the hated enemy just chargning through the gates and none of them fires? Simple survival instinct should have made them fire those arrows, how the hell did they know that Tormund will stop just in front of them? This was like a pacifist’s dream sans flowers and beat music ... at least they should have let Tormund punch Thorne in the face; cmon Thorne killed Jon and Tormund just takes it without any emotion? No “I will kill you for this” threats not even an angry glare? This part was very, very anti-climatic but I liked the rest.
  15. watcher of the night

    How would you rate episode 601?

    First of all I do not care about other shows. I watched GoT because of GoT and so far I loved it: the music, the actors, the storyline everything. That is why the sharp drop of quality in storywriting is so obvious and frustrating. Second, you can call it childish or attention grabbing, but no amount of name calling and belittleing analogies will change the fact that there are a lot of people disapponted with the story and with the dialoges. Third, feel free to ignore the problems with the show and focus on our "over-reaction" but your ignorance won't turn a bad story into a good one. No amount visual effects, good music and talented actors (the presence of each of these I am happy to acknowledge) will save a bad story at the end. It is just an empty eye-candy. I am not watching this show because it 'looks nice', I want a good story with engaging caraters. So far I got it from the story of G.R.R.M but it seems severly lacking from the new season.
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