The Fattest Leech

That's the thing, it was the right thing to do as we readers know, and as GRRM tends to favor: not just sitting by and "following orders". That is a place where (unfortunately) Barristan Selmy fails. Also, not sure what you mean by "off screen" because this dilemma and debate happens a lot on page, to me it reads as it's building quite a lot between both the ADWD Jon chapters and Theon's chapters. Heck, I'd go so far myself to say all the way back to earlier books like AGOT when Ramsay is introduced off-page as that existential threat of the monster who is always scariest before seen. However, what Jon has to deal with in his own arc on page is something he struggles with for the reasons listed above. Sometimes it's a very thin fifth wall GRRM is constructing.

Nope. Many things have changed along the way. Jon and any clan-sibling incest is not endgame. There is a chance that Jon and Dany do hook up, but it will not be a romance and such, but rather much more complicated a situation, and it would be a flash in the pan encounter with a dire outcome if it happens at all. He was pretty clear that Jon and Arya are not endgame. Even that outline never gave the ending to the story, but rather details to the first book (of the then planned three). Many changes were made, but more specifically, many things were shifted to another character because of the outcome GRRM wanted and whom he wanted those results associated with. I won't go through all of the changes here (but I have done this before), and one of the shifts in storytelling was adding Ramsay (a character fromm GRRM's writing past) and then giving her a fake Arya. That is all part of the "lesson" that GRRM is avoiding with the Starks and somewhere along the way he decided to scrap it all together for them and gave it to Cercei and Jaime, Targ incest, Ramsay and Jeyne Poole (gene pool), etc.

Prophecy is a powerful drug.

It was a hard test for Jon because it was about a lot more than just "killing Ramsay". This is even part of his questioning to himself when he asks his brothers for help. What Jon is doing is actually tapping back in to what the vows actually mean, saving humanity in any "realm", and the decision to make a preemptive strike to stop Ramsay (killed or captured then trialed), is about Jon acting out a larger duty. It wasn't an easy choice because of him being caught between trying to appease "Kings", Melisandre's tricky words, and stopping an incoming threat from the Others and Ramsay about to add to the wight population if Jon doesn't act. Jon chose the more altruistic act of thwarting these vows, supposed rules of conformity, accepting the stigma, and he acted in a manner that he postulates will do the most good in the immediate situation (not that it will solve everything, but that this battle will be over before THE war begins).

Is this the only mention of Daenerys getting or using/wearing this feathered cloak? I searched a bit more but there's always that chance my search terms are off. Thanks A Game of Thrones - Daenerys VI Dany smiled shyly. It was sweet to laugh. She felt half a girl again. They wandered for half the morning. She saw a beautiful feathered cloak from the Summer Isles, and took it for a gift. In return, she gave the merchant a silver medallion from her belt. That was how it was done among the Dothraki. A birdseller taught a green-and-red parrot to say her name, and Dany laughed again, yet still refused to take him. What would she do with a green-and-red parrot in a khalasar? She did take a dozen flasks of scented oils, the perfumes of her childhood; she had only to close her eyes and sniff them and she could see the big house with the red door once more. When Doreah looked longingly at a fertility charm at a magician's booth, Dany took that too and gave it to the handmaid, thinking that now she should find something for Irri and Jhiqui as well.

Can you see why The Ice Dragon childrens book required a few edits?

The Frog avatar from his blog is Froggy the Gremlin who "plunks his magic twanger". It is from an old show Martin watched as a kid. He talks about it a bit in Dreamsongs and wrote it into his story Armageddon Rag as well (which is roughly what the A Song of Ice and Fire title means, it's an Armageddon Rag/ragged (ADDING this link to rag song info))

Submitted By: Les Dabel [Note: The following is a mail sent to Les Dabel, of Dabel Brothers Productions, as part of their preparation for adapting an excerpt from "The Sworn Sword" in the second edition of the Hedge Knight graphic novel. Included at the end is a follow-up.] Do you have LEGENDS II? There's a detailed description of Bloodraven, aka Lord Brynden Rivers, in "The Sworn Sword." He is the most distinctive of the three, an albino with a red winestain birthmark on his neck and cheek that looks (vaguely) like a raven in flight. The Great Bastards [Note: The following continues GRRM's series of descriptions of notable Targaryens (and Targaryen bastards) for Amoka. Added to it is a correction related to the arms of Bittersteel, which GRRM had changed since his original conception.] BLOODRAVEN Bloodraven first, since I've already described him in "The Sworn Sword." The natural son of King Aegon IV by his sixth mistress, Lady Mylessa ('Missy') Blackwood, Brynden Rivers is an albino, with milk white skin and white hair, worn long. His eye is red -- the one he still has, the right. At the Battle of the Redgrass Field, his left eye was put out by Bittersteel when they dueled. He seldom wears an eye patch, but prefers to display his scar and empty socket to the world. The cliche is thinking Brienne can't be tall and muscular. Martin does follow a general outline for kingship, but even in that, even in creating sigils, even in creating the Citadel, the Red Wedding/Black Dinner, etc, he says he uses his own rules when needed. I believe the term he uses is "loosely based", not rigidly based to a T. Again, you keep making the point, that despite what a real world albino should or should not be able to do, GRRM has them do it anyway. His world, his rules. Also, Martin even clarifies to people like Amok that Bloodraven is exceptional in his looks because he is an albino. I highly doubt GRRM made an entire race pf people clinically/physically/genetically albino by mistake- by 40 year mistake. Even in his past stories he has numerous otherwordly, inhumanly beautiful people but they are not albinos. He does have an actual named and described albino in his story Armageddon Rag. It's not that difficult to see the difference in his fantasy archetypes, and real ones. GRRM even makes the distinction with the raven that signifies fall: A Clash of Kings - Prologue "It will," Cressen said. But not for years yet, I pray, and then not for long. "Ah, here is Pylos with the bird." Shireen gave a cry of delight. Even Cressen had to admit the bird made an impressive sight, white as snow and larger than any hawk, with the bright black eyes that meant it was no mere albino, but a truebred white raven of the Citadel. "Here," he called. The raven spread its wings, leapt into the air, and flapped noisily across the room to land on the table beside him. If an author hung the gun on the wall and no one ever used it, then yes, it would be meaningless. That isn't the case here. That Valyrians/Targaryens are not albino, but rather inhumanly beautiful as the books say, and there is a reason for that.

They are like some other "spider people" equivalent, in a (not literal) related way. There was a good theory with lots of text added that I will have to find and post. Something a little closer to a type of story that he likes to read and write about; a mixed bag of "extraterrestrial" races, but in a human-fantasy way rather than scifi. That's the simplest way I can describe it with just a few minutes before I have to drive off...

Or, it could be more “natural” with dragon blood when you consider places of dragon origins like Asshai, and Asshai by the Shadow. Again, another The Glass Flower/Cyrain of Lilith and Ash reference point.

Uh, that's what I keep saying. Also, it literally can't be the other-other way around Pfffft! And what and who caused the Double War? The Prometheans in the way that they mess with genetic manipulation, sure. That's what I've been saying. Except Maekar has purple eyes and not the same build as BR, so, just pale gold hair (not BR's white) Really? Ummm, no, Melisandre comes almost exactly directly from Morgan Full of Magic and Lies from Bitterblooms, down to her red robe, red hair, fire brazier, visions, lies about magics, etc, etc, etc. He's been 'dropping the ball' for 40ish years?!?! What the hell are we doing reading his stories then if he can't keep details straight!?!?! I guess this means we'll never see Ghost juggle Right, exactly, but Martin is following his own rules. The same with the multi-generational (and controlling) incest. NOOOO, I'm not falling for any more of this particular discussion with you... unless you buy a few more rounds first Ummm, because they are different in archetype and have different narrative purposes (as partially noted above).

We have actual albinos in the story and ones that are called as such. The "pale" peoples of Valyria are something different for reasons that are different. Simply put because this is a weird-ass discussion we are having, the ASOIAF albinos are more related to natural-tree-old gods "magics", whereas the Dany and Valyrians are more related to the (mad) scientist-genetic splicing-Hrangans. I'm taking a quick look now, and are you suggesting that this blonde guy from A Peripheral Affair is an albino? You mentioned something about this story a few posts back and I am curious to make sure we're talking about the same dude: There was a color photograph of Hollander on the file cover, showing a young man of medium height with a dark sun tan that spoke of birth under a sun harsher than Earth’s. His hair, so blond that it was almost white, was worn long and combed forward so it fell across his forehead to his eyebrows. His eyes were bright blue, and he was grinning crookedly at the camera, which was rather unusual for a fleet mug shot. Yes, it can, especially in Martin's own writing style. So back in the late 60's-early 70's GRRM was googling what "true albinos" are rather than say, use purple in a fantastical creative way because it's his stated favorite color (his Tesla is purple), and Liz Taylor (another va-va-va-voom favorite) had 'purple' eyes? The what about the Daynes? And what about the Targ bastards that inherit nothing but purple eyes? And those monkeys in Essos? There are only two "entities" that GRRM has said are "inhumanly beautiful" in ASOIAF and they happen to both be the ones with blood-tinkered genes that signify they are not entirely of the same blood as other humans, and both are the major dragons of the title of the series- the ice dragon and then the fire dragon. It's the same with hair color. Silver and gold hair has a narrative purpose. As does Mel's red eyes and red hair... but her hair isn't plain ol'red. It is redder than anything else and is like fire. Sansa doesn't just have plain ol'red hair, she has auburn hair- browny red, and that is important. Lannisters don't have boring ol'blonde hair, they have gold hair. The white hair of Ghost, Ghost of High Heart, Bloodraven is specifically NOT related to the fire-blooded Targaryens (something BR rejected being). It makes PERFECT narrative sense. Brynden Bloodraven Rivers rejected being a Targaryen, he rejected the name which rejects that personal identity. It's the psychology of give a thing a name and it becomes that. ADDING because I just refound it: Give a thing a name and it will somehow come to be. George R. R. Martin from Dying of the Light BINGO! ...in a way. It means that Martin has his own rules and real world rules be damned. It's not just fantasy, it's GRRM Don't worry, I am adding all of this to the beer tab you will owe me once TWOW and Winds is out. I think you now are up to owing me (3,45,8,92,66, divided by 9...) 42 pints

Just answering this for the moment, but the real world science has little to nothing to do with ASOIAF. This has been shown over and over and over again. And everyone of his past pale characters have not been albino specifically. There is a narrative importance with difference between them. What's the real world way to hatch dragons and not get burnt by fire?

To me, Jon's supposed sacrifice at the end of ADWD still does follow (to a T) GRRM's style. And I don't think it is going to be how many mythy readers assume. Agree, very much so. I do agree that other GRRM stories, Meathouse Man in particular, are very personal to GRRM. He once described that story as being like a page from his diary... only set in a fantasy world x1000. Meathouse Man is in the blood ASOIAF. GRRM said that he knew his wife was "the one" because when they met, she told him how she cried when she read A Song for Lya. A Storm of Swords - Bran II "Under Harren's roof he ate and drank with the wolves, and many of their sworn swords besides, barrowdown men and moose and bears and mermen. The dragon prince sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid sniffle, but when her pup brother teased her for crying she poured wine over his head. A black brother spoke, asking the knights to join the Night's Watch. The storm lord drank down the knight of skulls and kisses in a wine-cup war. The crannogman saw a maid with laughing purple eyes dance with a white sword, a red snake, and the lord of griffins, and lastly with the quiet wolf . . . but only after the wild wolf spoke to her on behalf of a brother too shy to leave his bench. Where I see the other part a little differently is that ASOIAF is a weaving, of sorts, of all of his work together. There are major and minor elements from all of his work that make up ASOIAF. Yes, plenty of new, but still very Martinworld-like. And in doing so, all of that personal introspective from GRRM's past is still there, just matured and polished. Fair enough idea

Because in the literary world of ASOIAF, Daenerys Targaryen is the first and the "ultimate", all of the rest are just there to lead up to Dany. It is George reverse engineering the ASOIAF world after he had already written Daenerys (mainly), Viserys and other Targaryens in the main (canon) books. The physical looks and behaviors of Dany herself come from his character Cyrain of Lilith and Ash in his story The Glass Flower. There is also quite a bit, physical and archetypal, of Goldenboy from the story Starlady in Dany and Valyrians. Both of these character-types also have the proximity telepathy/mind control powers such as George planned (and kept) for Daenerys and the Targaryens. Pyrokenisis in the case of the Targs and Pyro and mental persuasion for Dany as being able to "bend to her will" the people around her (per GRRM). Also, pale and silver/gold with purple eyes is not the same as albino. Superficially they seem the same, but to readers who decode the details, they function quite differently from each other. Also, GRRM's worlds follow his own "scientific" rules. Latitude and geography have little to do with the results we see in real life. Characters are the way GRRM needs them to be.