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The Fattest Leech

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About The Fattest Leech

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    Forget "lab safety", I want SUPERPOWERS!

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    Somewhere between the barstool and the floor.
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    Sometimes I wrestle with my demons. Sometimes we just cuddle.

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  1. The Fattest Leech

    The execution of Janos Slynt was personal and it was not justice.

    That was roughly one paragraph that the sword was out, not exactly forever. Janos kept Jon waiting forever The other issue with Slynt (and Thorne) is that Slynt arrived at CB already wanting to kill Jon, and Slynt arrived and buddied up with Thorne over how much they hate Starks, etc. To use the wording from upthread, Slynt arrived with a chip on his shoulder and he antagonized the situation repeatedly, way before this beheading chapter. It’s a long, playful tease of information that the author has given.
  2. The Fattest Leech

    The execution of Janos Slynt was personal and it was not justice.

    Yeah, but Janos was way late, Jon was already doing the blade thing, Jon sheathes his blade!, and Janos is unphased. Tell me, who shows self control at this meeting?
  3. The Fattest Leech

    The execution of Janos Slynt was personal and it was not justice.

    Hah! You think Jon has a "chip on his shoulder"? You can plainly see from this passage below that people like Slynt and Throne have always been against Jon, even plotting three times to kill him, all because Slynt and Thorne cannot leave their past lives behind. Basically, those two started it with Jon and exacerbated the situation greatly. Just adding, this is in the same chapter right after Jon meets Slynt for the first time ever. A Storm of Swords/ Jon XII “I never said that,” Jon insisted. Slynt slammed a fist on the table. “I heard you! Ser Alliser had your measure true enough, it seems. You lie through your bastard’s teeth. Well, I will not suffer it. I will not! You might have fooled this crippled blacksmith, but not Janos Slynt! Oh, no. Janos Slynt does not swallow lies so easily. Did you think my skull was stuffed with cabbage?” “I don’t know what your skull is stuffed with. My lord.” “Lord Snow is nothing if not arrogant,” said Ser Alliser. “He murdered Qhorin just as his fellow turncloaks did Lord Mormont. It would not surprise me to learn that it was all part of the same fell plot. Benjen Stark may well have a hand in all this as well. For all we know, he is sitting in Mance Rayder’s tent even now. You know these Starks, my lord.” “I do,” said Janos Slynt. “I know them too well.” Jon peeled off his glove and showed them his burned hand. “I burned my hand defending Lord Mormont from a wight. And my uncle was a man of honor. He would never have betrayed his vows.” “No more than you?” mocked Ser Alliser. Septon Cellador cleared his throat. “Lord Slynt,” he said, “this boy refused to swear his vows properly in the sept, but went beyond the Wall to say his words before a heart tree. His father’s gods, he said, but they are wildling gods as well.” “They are the gods of the north, Septon.” Maester Aemon was courteous, but firm. “My lords, when Donal Noye was slain, it was this young man Jon Snow who took the Wall and held it, against all the fury of the north. He has proved himself valiant, loyal, and resourceful. Were it not for him, you would have found Mance Rayder sitting here when you arrived, Lord Slynt. You are doing him a great wrong. Jon Snow was Lord Mormont’s own steward and squire. He was chosen for that duty because the Lord Commander saw much promise in him. As do I.” “Promise?” said Slynt. “Well, promise may turn false. Qhorin Halfhand’s blood is on his hands. Mormont trusted him, you say, but what of that? I know what it is to be betrayed by men you trusted. Oh, yes. And I know the ways of wolves as well.” He pointed at Jon’s face. “Your father died a traitor.” “My father was murdered.” Jon was past caring what they did to him, but he would not suffer any more lies about his father. Slynt purpled. “Murder? You insolent pup. King Robert was not even cold when Lord Eddard moved against his son.” He rose to his feet; a shorter man than Mormont, but thick about the chest and arms, with a gut to match. A small gold spear tipped with red enamel pinned his cloak at the shoulder. “Your father died by the sword, but he was highborn, a King’s Hand. For you, a noose will serve. Ser Alliser, take this turncloak to an ice cell.” “My lord is wise.” Ser Alliser seized Jon by the arm. Jon yanked away and grabbed the knight by the throat with such ferocity that he lifted him off the floor. He would have throttled him if the Eastwatch men had not pulled him off. Thorne staggered back, rubbing the marks Jon’s fingers had left on his neck. “You see for yourselves, brothers. The boy is a wildling.” Martin, George R. R.. George R. R. Martin's A Game of Thrones 5-Book Boxed Set (Song of Ice and Fire Series): A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, and A Dance with Dragons (Kindle Locations 45636-45662). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
  4. The Fattest Leech

    The execution of Janos Slynt was personal and it was not justice.

    You think Jon's arc is finished? Jon addresses the issue with Mance several times in ADWD.
  5. The Fattest Leech

    The execution of Janos Slynt was personal and it was not justice.

    I'm sorry, but no, this is not how the chapter begins. The chapter begins with all sorts of foreshadowing of what's to come. This is how ADWD/Jon chapter 2 chapter begins: Jon Snow read the letter over until the words began to blur and run together. I cannot sign this. I will not sign this. He almost burned the parchment then and there. Instead he took a sip of ale, the dregs of the half cup that remained from his solitary supper the night before. I have to sign it. They chose me to be their lord commander. The Wall is mine, and the Watch as well. The Night’s Watch takes no part. It was a relief when Dolorous Edd Tollett opened the door to tell him that Gilly was without. Jon set Maester Aemon’s letter aside. “I will see her.” He dreaded this. “Find Sam for me. I will want to speak with him next.” “He’ll be down with the books. My old septon used to say that books are dead men talking. Dead men should keep quiet, is what I say. No one wants to hear a dead man’s yabber.” Dolorous Edd went off muttering of worms and spiders. When Gilly entered, she went at once to her knees. Jon came around the table and drew her to her feet. “You don’t need to take a knee for me. That’s just for kings.” Though a wife and mother, Gilly still seemed half a child to him, a slender little thing wrapped up in one of Sam’s old cloaks. The cloak was so big on her that she could have hidden several other girls beneath its folds. “The babes are well?” he asked her. The wildling girl smiled timidly from under her cowl. “Yes, m’lord. I was scared I wouldn’t have milk enough for both, but the more they suck, the more I have. They’re strong.” “I have something hard to tell you.” He almost said ask, but caught himself at the last instant. “Is it Mance? Val begged the king to spare him. She said she’d let some kneeler marry her and never slit his throat if only Mance could live. That Lord o’Bones, he’s to be spared. Craster always swore he’d kill him if he ever showed his face about the keep. Mance never did half the things he done.” All Mance ever did was lead an army down upon the realm he once swore to protect. “Mance said our words, Gilly. Then he turned his cloak, wed Dalla, and crowned himself King-Beyond-the-Wall. His life is in the king’s hands now. It’s not him we need to talk about. It’s his son. Dalla’s boy.” “The babe?” Her voice trembled. “He never broke no oath, m’lord. He sleeps and cries and sucks, is all; he’s never done no harm to no one. Don’t let her burn him. Save him, please.” Martin, George R. R.. George R. R. Martin's A Game of Thrones 5-Book Boxed Set (Song of Ice and Fire Series): A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, and A Dance with Dragons (Kindle Locations 66104-66124). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. And then it ends like this: “If the boy thinks that he can frighten me, he is mistaken,” they heard Lord Janos said. “He would not dare to hang me. Janos Slynt has friends, important friends, you’ll see …” The wind whipped away the rest of his words. This is wrong, Jon thought. “Stop.” Emmett turned back, frowning. “My lord?” “I will not hang him,” said Jon. “Bring him here.” “Oh, Seven save us,” he heard Bowen Marsh cry out. The smile that Lord Janos Slynt smiled then had all the sweetness of rancid butter. Until Jon said, “Edd, fetch me a block,” and unsheathed Longclaw. By the time a suitable chopping block was found, Lord Janos had retreated into the winch cage, but Iron Emmett went in after him and dragged him out. “No,” Slynt cried, as Emmett half-shoved and half-pulled him across the yard. “Unhand me … you cannot … when Tywin Lannister hears of this, you will all rue—” Emmett kicked his legs out from under him. Dolorous Edd planted a foot on his back to keep him on his knees as Emmett shoved the block beneath his head. “This will go easier if you stay still,” Jon Snow promised him. “Move to avoid the cut, and you will still die, but your dying will be uglier. Stretch out your neck, my lord.” The pale morning sunlight ran up and down his blade as Jon clasped the hilt of the bastard sword with both hands and raised it high. “If you have any last words, now is the time to speak them,” he said, expecting one last curse. Janos Slynt twisted his neck around to stare up at him. “Please, my lord. Mercy. I’ll … I’ll go, I will, I …” No, thought Jon. You closed that door. Longclaw descended. “Can I have his boots?” asked Owen the Oaf, as Janos Slynt’s head went rolling across the muddy ground. “They’re almost new, those boots. Lined with fur.” Jon glanced back at Stannis. For an instant their eyes met. Then the king nodded and went back inside his tower. Martin, George R. R.. George R. R. Martin's A Game of Thrones 5-Book Boxed Set (Song of Ice and Fire Series): A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, and A Dance with Dragons (Kindle Locations 66438-66457). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. What you are quoting as the beginning of the chapter is actually about partway through a paragraph that is about 3/4 of the way through the entire chapter. The larger picture of what you quoted shows Janos starting with insubordination, however, you can see that Jon was attempting to both remove Janos from further plotting while also using Janos and whatever skills he brought with him from his time down in King's Landing: “I mean to garrison all of them, in time,” said Jon, “but for the moment, it will just be Icemark and Greyguard.” “And has m’lord decided who’s to command at Greyguard?” “Janos Slynt,” said Jon. Gods save us. “A man does not rise to command of the gold cloaks without ability. Slynt was born a butcher’s son. He was captain of the Iron Gate when Manly Stokeworth died, and Jon Arryn raised him up and put the defense of King’s Landing into his hands. Lord Janos cannot be as great a fool as he seems.” And I want him well away from Alliser Thorne. “Might be that’s so,” said Giant, “but I’d still send him to the kitchens to help Three-Finger Hobb cut up the turnips.” If I did, I’d never dare to eat another turnip. Half the morning passed before Lord Janos reported as commanded. Jon was cleaning Longclaw. Some men would have given that task to a steward or a squire, but Lord Eddard had taught his sons to care for their own weapons. When Kegs and Dolorous Edd arrived with Slynt, Jon thanked them and bid Lord Janos sit. That he did, albeit with poor grace, crossing his arms, scowling, and ignoring the naked steel in his lord commander’s hands. Jon slid the oilcloth down his bastard sword, watching the play of morning light across the ripples, thinking how easily the blade would slide through skin and fat and sinew to part Slynt’s ugly head from his body. All of a man’s crimes were wiped away when he took the black, and all of his allegiances as well, yet he found it hard to think of Janos Slynt as a brother. There is blood between us. This man helped slay my father and did his best to have me killed as well. “Lord Janos.” Jon sheathed his sword. “I am giving you command of Greyguard.” That took Slynt aback. “Greyguard … Greyguard was where you climbed the Wall with your wildling friends …” “It was. The fort is in a sorry state, admittedly. You will restore it as best you can. Start by clearing back the forest. Steal stones from the structures that have collapsed to repair those still standing.” The work will be hard and brutal, he might have added. You’ll sleep on stone, too exhausted to complain or plot, and soon you’ll forget what it was like to be warm, but you might remember what it was to be a man. “You will have thirty men. Ten from here, ten from the Shadow Tower, and ten lent to us by King Stannis.” Slynt’s face had turned the color of a prune. His meaty jowls began to quiver. “Do you think I cannot see what you are doing? Janos Slynt is not a man to be gulled so easily. I was charged with the defense of King’s Landing when you were soiling your swaddling clothes. Keep your ruin, bastard.” I am giving you a chance, my lord. It is more than you ever gave my father. “You mistake me, my lord,” Jon said. “That was a command, not an offer. It is forty leagues to Greyguard. Pack up your arms and armor, say your farewells, and be ready to depart at first light on the morrow.” “No.” Lord Janos lurched to his feet, sending his chair crashing over backwards. “I will not go meekly off to freeze and die. No traitor’s bastard gives commands to Janos Slynt! I am not without friends, I warn you. Martin, George R. R.. George R. R. Martin's A Game of Thrones 5-Book Boxed Set (Song of Ice and Fire Series): A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, and A Dance with Dragons (Kindle Locations 66374-66401). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. It seems you are in great dislike of how the author has structured his own story because you maybe would have done it differently and drawn out this micro-sized subplot to include all of the results you prefer. That's ok because believe it or not there are several people in the fandom that actually openly dislike the way Martin has concluded his sub-plots like the purple wedding poisoner and the cat's paw attempt at Bran... and maybe a few others.
  6. The Fattest Leech

    Bloodraven, the red priestess, and the black bastsrd

    This is very true, and I love that quote by Jojen. That one, and when Jojen slips in, "by night, all cloaks are black, Your Grace," which could point to the idea that when the long night hits, unity is the only hope. Which could be a tenet of the old gods as well, since the old gods/spirit/consciousness are "in" everything (animism, basically), and it all works together. The counterpoint seems to be, as you mentioned, the dualistic black and white view that the R'hllorits red priests keep. That closed-mindedness could be the downfall. They are interpreting "religion" wrongly, just as we see today with those that twist the word of God/jesus/whoever to meet their political needs. You can have your faith and religion, just don't condemn others for not following your choice- it doesn't have to be bow or burn. Or not, just throwing out some ideas because the "gods" aspect of this story sometimes still gives me headaches Maaaybe... but I would not discount the other talents that are immediately available to Jon as I type
  7. The Fattest Leech

    When characters are winds, masts and ships.

    Seams, you have a great thinkpiece thread here. I don't have the answers to all of your ideas, well, other than GRRM reallly loves his ships and from childhood to almost all of his works he frequently includes ships as interchangeable metaphors for escape, second life, etc. This seems to again go back to his childhood in Bayonne where he describes his "whole world" as being the five block radius he was allowed to go and how he liked to watch the cargo ship on the harbor and would dream about their journeys. Anyway, what currently brought me back to this thread was this idea you mentioned... I can certainly see the connections you are thinking about. As you know, Martin often has his symbols relate to two or three character plot points, and I think this could maybe be another case. Pardon my laziness, but for lack of time I am going to paste something I wrote a while back that I just came across again while looking for something else, and this paste reminded me of your thread: A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion VIII The Selaesori Qhoran was a wallowing tub of five hundred tons, with a deep hold, high castles fore and aft, and a single mast between. At her forecastle stood a grotesque figurehead, some worm-eaten wooden eminence with a constipated look and a scroll tucked up under one arm. Tyrion had never seen an uglier ship. Her crew was no prettier. Her captain, a mean-mouthed, flinty, kettle-bellied man with close-set, greedy eyes, was a bad cyvasse player and a worse loser. Under him served four mates, freedmen all, and fifty slaves bound to the ship, each with a crude version of the cog's figurehead tattooed upon one cheek. No-Nose, the sailors liked to call Tyrion, no matter how many times he told them his name was Hugor Hill. Three of the mates and more than three-quarters of the crew were fervent worshipers of the Lord of Light. Tyrion was less certain about the captain, who always emerged for the evening prayers but took no other part in them. But Moqorro was the true master of the Selaesori Qhoran, at least for this voyage. "Lord of Light, bless your slave Moqorro, and light his way in the dark places of the world," the red priest boomed. "And defend your righteous slave Benerro. Grant him courage. Grant him wisdom. Fill his heart with fire." Wow, I never noticed how this scene is very much like one of Jon's at the wall after Stannis arrives. The captain emerging yet not taking place in prayers is a lot like Stannis and his slow loss of faith in Mel and her visions. The captain also being mean-mouthed and flinty who is bad at playing the game of cyvasse (of Thrones). Selaesori Qhoran = Queen Selyse. This goes right along with my idea that I laid out in my Nymeria thread that Mel uses ships as a euphemism for people/Free Folk. Selyse is definitely the more crazy devout follower of Melisandre R'hollorism than Stannis is. Moqorro is a slave, like Melisandre remembers about herself- Melony Lot 7. That raises some questions, doesn't it? Filling hearts with fire is the sigil of Stannis under the influence of R'hollor/Mel when he changes the Baratheon sigil and puts the stag inside the fiery heart of R'hollor. And Tyrion's description of the Selaesori Qhoran kinda matches how Val and some of the guys at Castle Black, and well, everyone describes Queen Selyse. I think Melisandre and Selyse together is the Jon version of the perfumed seneschal. Mel is known for her spicy scents that accompany her spells, and Selyse is well, Selyse the follower/steward/agent. Soooo, if Daenerys is told to beware the perfumed seneschal- which literally translates to fragrant steward, and the Selaesori Qhoran is called the Stinky Steward, which translates to Queen Selyse, then by reason of foreshadowing () Jon should avoid Queen Selyse because she will bring destruction on him??? Got it! ...HOLD THE CAN OF WORMS.... Wasn't little Dany followed by hired knives as a child? Well, who hired the knives at Castle Black for the mutiny to kill the boy? Remember, half of the stabbers were acting weird and crying and saying, "not me." Were they under a spell? Hired? By whom?
  8. The Fattest Leech

    Bloodraven, the red priestess, and the black bastsrd

    It's not thaaat crackpot I like the cyvasse metaphor, and I agree with Jon having to be (symbolically) reborn as an agent of the old gods and Jon Snow, King of Winter is a nice note in the song. I do, however, see more of an ice "rebirth", and that might not necessarily involve Melisandre as often assumed. My idea follows the cup of ice- cup of fire idea, and Jon (Bran and/after Bloodraven) are drinking from that cup of ice. It seems to me that Mel is also drinking from that cup of fire, and that maybe she was sent to Jon to thrust the hungry, jealous, fiery hand of R'hllor down on Jon to remove him from the path of "fire", as those two are at odds with each other (and Mel maybe using Marsh as a pawn as well (not me, not me)). Storm god vs Drowned/sea god all over again moving their dragons across the cyvasse board. Jon being put out by fire to be reborn in ice still allows him to be the song of ice and fire (all symbolically speaking, of course).
  9. The Fattest Leech

    Bloodraven, the red priestess, and the black bastsrd

    The old gods? Interesting idea. How do you see that working out?
  10. The Fattest Leech

    Bloodraven, the red priestess, and the black bastsrd

    Just remember that Mel makes many admitted mistakes. She is (more or less) being shown the right image, but she always jumps to conclusions of the meaning, and in doing so, she is manipulating those around her, she shenis probably being manipulated herself (ruby). She is a classic GRRM zealot charlatain. And I also think that we readers should note that Mel essentially is absent from the Nights Watch part of the plot at only about halfway through ADWD. She has been doing A LOT of flame reading until that book ends. In general, I also don’t think she is Bloodraven’s daughter. I know the theories and I can see the temptation to assign characters as hidden babies of someone else because of the whole Ned hiding Jon deal, but I also think there are more than five characters in the books. It doesn’t really seem to add much to the story to have Melisandre be the child of BR, but who knows? If we follow this rabbit down the hole, then that means Mel and Craster are brother and sister (according to some who think Craster is BR’s son), which I guess that means they will automatically start banging
  11. The Fattest Leech

    R+L=J vs N+A=J (GRRM looses either way)

    I seem to remember knowing straight away that Jon was not Eddard’s child. And then maybe on the first and half AGOT reread I think is when it started to click for me, or at least make me wonder greatly and fiend for more story (it’s been a long g time. Can’t remember for sure anymore). What happened is in the first reread I noticed the reveal pattern a little more overtly this time around, and then then I noticed right after we got the Eddard chapters about Jon and/or Lyanna, they were almost always followed by a Dany Chapter talking about Rhaegar in some way. I would read a chapter, get to some line about something, brain synapses would snap, and I would start flipping back and forth between chapters to double check my info. And then that’s when the highlighters and post-it flags notes started to happen
  12. The Fattest Leech

    Question regarding Mad King !!

    Well LV, here we are again. We haven't chatted in a while. This is kinda what I was saying, and there is no need to split hairs to appear seemingly more "correct". George once said that the two things he wanted his maesters to be was clean and have a good knowledge of flowers. Maesters know no more or less than a wood's witch, and both can heal a number of physical illnesses. Mental illness is another case all together, and Martin has given us the reason why for certain people/families. Maesters do not have the prescription chemical-type meds that we have now, nor do we ever see any mental aptitude tests being performed or discussed. The maester diagnosis is still related to superstition and prescribing elixirs to treat the "off balance humours", bad diet/too many sweets, etc as maester Toman shows us readers (as just one example). If you read my post again, you will see how I explained I did not have enough time to dig up all of the book quotes to my references. They are there. And the entire point of the comparison between Aerys and his son is not an exact age to age, month to month comparison. No, there isn't time or necessity in the books to do that. Instead, Martin hits every single beat to show the reader that Viserys is his father's son. To claim otherwise (in general, not necessarily you, LV) or maybe to claim that Viserys "would grow out of it" as is often seen around this current upside-down forum is treading deeply in to "What IF" thread territory = fan fiction. I know you don't because you have said and demonstrated time and again that you like your stories linear. However, the words I chose for the iron throne and such come from the author, so If one chooses to ignore these bits, then they are missing an amazing amount of subtext that has been written in to the story. As to the racism, I am not going to include the modern day tests that have shown a pattern of dysfunction in those that are racist, because this is a fantasy story and the author uses his own rules. That said, you completely missed the point of the "beasts of the field" comment by Viserys and myself. Honestly, if I even start to go down this road with you here it would be rather off-topic, but don't kid yourself if you think George is making a master race to take over as the "rightful" anything. Once again we disagree on many points, which is fine, but I am no longer in the habit of creating 5-mile long quote/requote posts. People ask questions, get an answer, hate that answer, so prod again for something more to their personal liking. By the way, have you read Closing Time? Just found it and received on old copy in the mail the other day. TONS of Bloodraven/ice magic imagery prototype stuff in there, and this goes back to 1975. Good stuff. Thought you might find it interesting. Peace out
  13. The Fattest Leech

    Question regarding Mad King !!

    Well, no one really is a "real" physician in this world. Even the maesters are relegated to just basic means and methods not unlike the woods witches and such for most all cases of anything. Genetics in this world is simplified greatly and that is all necessary to keep the story moving instead of stagnating on unnecessary side plots (not much question there). One thing that Selmy is, though, is a devout Targ loyalist. Every time Daenerys goes to him for information, he always stops short of describing how mad her father was or how Rhaegar did not win every tourney/battle/etc. It is Dany who pushes for more information. Selmy is delicate with his information which means that him just saying about Vis what he did really implies he was also being delicate. Also, Viserys was like his father in many ways. I don't have time to list them all here now (I have a movie to get to), but here are a few: Viserys is obsessed with fire in the form of the iron throne- which was built on blood and fire, bow or burn. Taking that throne is like a madness in him, the same way that GRRM describes a "bloodlust" in his other stories. GRRM has already said that throne is a twisted sign of oppression, so taking from that those who crave and desire the throne are not in their right minds themselves (think A Song for Lya, among a few other tales ) Vis is also a racist the way his father was Daenerys said nothing. She had always assumed that she would wed Viserys when she came of age. For centuries the Targaryens had married brother to sister, since Aegon the Conqueror had taken his sisters to bride. The line must be kept pure, Viserys had told her a thousand times; theirs was the kingsblood, the golden blood of old Valyria, the blood of the dragon. Dragons did not mate with the beasts of the field, and Targaryens did not mingle their blood with that of lesser men. Yet now Viserys schemed to sell her to a stranger, a barbarian. just incase anyone is not sure, but the phrase "beast of the field", or similary referring to humans as such, is a bit of racists rhetoric that was used in the biblical times. Too much to go in to about that now. "The princess must be presented to the dosh khaleen …" "The crones, yes," her brother interrupted, "and there's to be some mummer's show of a prophecy for the whelp in her belly, you told me. What is that to me? I'm tired of eating horsemeat and I'm sick of the stink of these savages." He sniffed at the wide, floppy sleeve of his tunic, where it was his custom to keep a sachet. It could not have helped much. The tunic was filthy. All the silk and heavy wools that Viserys had worn out of Pentos were stained by hard travel and rotted from sweat. When Prince Rhaegar and his new wife chose to take up residence on Dragonstone instead of the Red Keep, rumors flew thick and fast across the Seven Kingdoms. Some claimed that the crown prince was planning to depose his father and seize the Iron Throne for himself, whilst others said that King Aerys meant to disinherit Rhaegar and name Viserys heir in his place. Nor did the birth of King Aerys's first grandchild, a girl named Rhaenys, born on Dragonstone in 280 AC, do aught to reconcile father and son. When Prince Rhaegar returned to the Red Keep to present his daughter to his own mother and father, Queen Rhaella embraced the babe warmly, but King Aerys refused to touch or hold the child and complained that she "smells Dornish." And Vis also starts to physically hurt Dany as Aerys does to Rhaella when he torture-rapes her after he does his burnings. Whether that was "allowed" in this world is irrelevant, the "king" was physically hurting his sister... sister-wife almost as Dany once assumed she would be to Viserys. Once on a voyage to Braavos, as she'd watched the crew wrestle down a great green sail in a rising gale, she had even thought how fine it would be to be a sailor. But when she told her brother, Viserys had twisted her hair until she cried. "You are blood of the dragon," he had screamed at her. "A dragon, not some smelly fish." And they did both share paranoia. Aerys for the variety of reasons being discussed, and ironically Aerys was paranoid over the life of Viserys himself as a baby, and Vis and his "usurpers knives" paranoia. Just going to add part of the convo about Vis below for others to re-read if they want. A Storm of Swords - Daenerys VI "You helped win this city," she repeated stubbornly. "And you have served me well in the past. Ser Barristan saved me from the Titan's Bastard, and from the Sorrowful Man in Qarth. Ser Jorah saved me from the poisoner in Vaes Dothrak, and again from Drogo's bloodriders after my sun-and-stars had died." So many people wanted her dead, sometimes she lost count. "And yet you lied, deceived me, betrayed me." She turned to Ser Barristan. "You protected my father for many years, fought beside my brother on the Trident, but you abandoned Viserys in his exile and bent your knee to the Usurper instead. Why? And tell it true." "Some truths are hard to hear. Robert was a . . . a good knight . . . chivalrous, brave . . . he spared my life, and the lives of many others . . . Prince Viserys was only a boy, it would have been years before he was fit to rule, and . . . forgive me, my queen, but you asked for truth . . . even as a child, your brother Viserys oft seemed to be his father's son, in ways that Rhaegar never did." "His father's son?" Dany frowned. "What does that mean?" The old knight did not blink. "Your father is called 'the Mad King' in Westeros. Has no one ever told you?" "Viserys did." The Mad King. "The Usurper called him that, the Usurper and his dogs." The Mad King. "It was a lie." (<- denial) "Why ask for truth," Ser Barristan said softly, "if you close your ears to it?" He hesitated, then continued. "I told you before that I used a false name so the Lannisters would not know that I'd joined you. That was less than half of it, Your Grace. The truth is, I wanted to watch you for a time before pledging you my sword. To make certain that you were not . . ."
  14. The Fattest Leech

    Division of the Kingsguard of Aerys II

    That spreadsheet sounds... sexy
  15. The Fattest Leech

    Division of the Kingsguard of Aerys II

    Just to add to what other posters have already mentioned, this is a link to a screenshot from the app (iffin’ it works): https://imgur.com/gallery/d4wsN1V And I see @Widow's Watch ‘d me in the process of my pic
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