Shmedricko

46 minutes ago, Lord Aegon The Compromiser said:

Based on this new info I was wrong in the end. They did guess it correctly. Though it wasn't confirmed until 2 weeks ago, in this post you referenced:

 

http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/20/an-ending/

George said back in 2014 that D&D correctly guessed the identity of Jon's mother:

Benioff and Weiss later said that during that meeting you asked them who they think Jon Snow’s mother was, which is one of the earliest — and seemingly one of the central — mysteries in A Song of Ice and Fire.


I did ask that at one point, just to see how closely they’d read the text.

Did they get it right?


They answered correctly.

Some readers, I think, would also ask who Jon Snow’s father truly is, even though Jon was always claimed to be Ned Stark’s bastard son.


[Martin smiles] On this I shall not speak. I shall maintain my enigmatic silence, until I get to it in the books.

-George R.R. Martin: The Complete Rolling Stone Interview, June 13, 2014

A few Reddit posts which I think are pretty insightful:

1) How Bran's chapter sets up a far more compelling conclusion than the show gave us, by /u/feldman10 - Explaining how Bran sentencing Jon to the Night's Watch for murdering Daenerys could be a lot more satisfying in the books, by relating it to Bran's very first chapter in the series. Excerpt:

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Jon — himself a Night's Watch deserter — is brought forward, filling the role of the Night's Watch deserter Ned executes. Bran, now king, is unsure what to do. His beloved brother/cousin is a queenslayer, because he killed Dany, for the good of the realm. Several factions in Westeros are demanding Jon's head.

Bran is unsure what to do. It's his first major decision as king. He thinks of how Jon intervened to save the innocent direwolf pups so long ago. He selflessly omitted himself, to save innocent creatures. Now, he has sacrificed his own honor and killed the woman he loved, to save innocents across the world.

Bran thinks of his father's words: "If you would take a man’s life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die."

So, Bran concludes, Jon does not deserve to die. Instead, he will be sent to the Night's Watch. [...]

Bonus: Jon's fate resembles what Aegon V did to Bloodraven

From TWOIAF. Bloodraven killed a Blackfyre pretender to help Aegon V get the throne. King Aegon then sentenced him — to the Wall.

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The first act of Aegon's reign was the arrest of Brynden Rivers, the King's Hand, for the murder of Aenys Blackfyre. Bloodraven did not deny that he had lured the pretender into his power by the offer of a safe conduct, but contended that he had sacrificed his own personal honor for the good of the realm.

Though many agreed, and were pleased to see another Blackfyre pretender removed, King Aegon felt he had no choice but to condemn the Hand, lest the word of the Iron Throne be seen as worthless. Yet after the sentence of death was pronounced, Aegon offered Bloodraven the chance to take the black and join the Night's Watch. This he did. Ser Brynden Rivers set sail for the Wall late in the year of 233 AC.

2) A certain character's final decision will be much darker in the books, by /u/YezenIRL - Theorizing that Jon will kill Dany primarily to protect his family, fulfilling the treason for love; and that, unbeknownst to Jon, Dany will be pregnant with his child when he does this. Excerpt:

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When it comes to tragedy, GRRM tends to go the whole 9 yards. Shakespeare level shit. Tyrion being made to participate in the gang rape of Tysha. Stannis burning his daughter alive. Bran retroactively crippling Hodor's mind through repeated mental violation. These moments are meant to be gut wrenching. Almost as a rule, we don't get satisfying, heroic kills.

So, here is the twist. Jon will betray Daenerys while she (unbeknownst to him) is pregnant with his child.

Yes, I realize I am careening into misery porn territory here, but there actually is a setup for this. Although Daenerys believes herself unable to have children, this isn't necessarily true, and we have significant reason to believe that Daenerys in fact went through a miscarriage on the Dothraki Sea. You can find evidence for this outlined here.

If true, this would mean that Daenerys can indeed have children.

And upon inspection of season 7, it almost seems as though the show was going to have Daenerys get pregnant in season 8, and then scrapped the storyline. Twice in S7Ep6 Daenerys' inability to have children is brought up. By Tyrion when discussing the issue of succession, then by herself when discussing the loss of her dragon. She brings this up to Jon again in S7E7, at which point Jon calls into question whether Mirri might have been an unreliable source of information. Later in that very episode, Jon and Dany have sex for the first time. Now of course, that could all just be there to clarify Dany's inability to produce an heir right?

Well, during the wight hunt, Jon tries to give Jorah back Longclaw, and he refuses. Telling him this:

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Jorah: I've forfeited the right to claim [Longclaw]. It's yours. May it serve you well. . . and your children after you.

So not only were we getting foreshadowing about Daenerys possibly having children there at the end, but we were also getting foreshadowing that Jon would have children. Red herring? maybe. Or maybe Daenerys was originally going to be pregnant when Jon killed her, but the writers decided it was unnecessarily bleak and controversial, so instead they wrote it out. [...]

Though what Jon does seems to be the right thing in light of Dany's tyranny, Daenerys being pregnant when Jon chooses his family over her would reassert the reality that Daenerys is also Jon's family. And by betraying her, even if for a good reason, is kinslaying in every sense of the word.

tldr 2; When Jon kills Daenerys, she will be (unbeknownst to him) pregnant with his child.

3) The Curse of Harrenhal: How the location of the Great Council explains the ending in the books, by /u/YezenIRL - Theorizing that the Great Council in the books will be held on the Isle of Faces, and that Bran will take Harrenhal as his seat (which Bran actually has a claim to through Catelyn's mother Minisa Whent). Excerpt:

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"Robb will set aside his crown if you and your brother will do the same," she said, hoping it was true. She would make it true if she must; Robb would listen to her, even if his lords would not. "Let the three of you call for a Great Council, such as the realm has not seen for a hundred years. We will send to Winterfell, so Bran may tell his tale and all men may know the Lannisters for the true usurpers. Let the assembled lords of the Seven Kingdoms choose who shall rule them." ~ Catelyn IV, ACOK

For those who have been wondering how the books would ever get to a scenario where a Great Council is even considering making a crippled boy the king, I have three words for you. Location. Location. Location.

While the show puts the Great Council at the Dragonpit and has Bran as the abdicated little brother of the Lady of Winterfell, the odds will likely be shifted dramatically in Bran's favor in the books. Because if the Great Council is happening just beneath Harrenhal, then Bran holds a claim to the very land on which the council is taking place. And that's not even mentioning the massive Old Gods connection giving Bran the home field advantage.

Sure (assuming he survives) Edmure Tully comes before Bran i the line of succesion, but alas Edmure will probably be passed over in the books just as he was on the show. Poor Edmure never gets a break.

And that really shouldn't come as a big surprise. While Edmure is the Lord of Riverrun, Brandon Stark is the heir to The North and the Riverlands. Which is about half the land in Westeros.

And yes, just as happened in the show, it will likely be Tyrion who gives the speech which gets the Lords of Westeros to put aside their reservations about crowning a crippled boy. This is set up pretty early in the story by Tyrion's soft spot for cripples, bastards, and broken things.

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"Even if the boy does live, he will be a cripple. Worse than a cripple. A grotesque. Give me a good clean death."

Tyrion replied with a shrug that accentuated the twist of his shoulders. "Speaking for the grotesques," he said, "I beg to differ. Death is so terribly final, while life is full of possibilities."

[...]

"Oh, yes," Tyrion admitted. "I hope the boy does wake. I would be most interested to hear what he might have to say."

And yes, the power of stories will probably in some way be a part of Tyron's speech in the books too. D&D failed to set it up, but people have to realize that whenever something feels totally out of left field on the show, it's either because it's complete crowd pleasing fanservice, or because it's from the books and they failed to set it up (for example, that one time they called Jon "The White Wolf" or Bran being called "Bran the Broken.") Tyrion's speech was clearly not fanservice. It's more likely to be conceptually from the books.

Beyond that, this serves as a callback to the Shakespeare line that likely inspired the ending for GRRM.

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"Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious summer by this sun of York." ~ Richard III

This is the famous opening line in Shakespeare's play about Richard III, and the War of the Roses. In this soliloquy, the titular Richard III is proclaiming that the time of hardship is over, and good times are ahead, now that King Edward IV has re-ascended to the throne. Of course, what follows this are revealed to be not so good times, but I digress. We don't know what the future holds for Westeros, and we can assume that peace will not last forever.

GRRM has blatantly acknowledged that Tyrion is in many ways inspired by Richard III. The winter of our discontent seems referenced by the winter of the Long Night, but also the general period of war the story encompasses. "Summer" is the name of Bran's direwolf, and the Yorks are the Starks so King Brandon Stark is the sun/son of York. Thus Martin will likely end his story much like Shakespeare began his. By hailing to the son of Stark.

The rise of the Fischer King Brandon Stark to the throne will also likely represent the breaking of the curse of Harrenhal. Not only because making a greenseer the king makes up for the Weirwoods destroyed in Harrenhal's construction, but also because the establishment of an elective monarchy makes it so that no one House will ever rule over Harrenhal. Instead the Hall of Kings will pass from one ruler to the next, each chosen at the Isle of Faces, in the sight of Gods and Men.

tldr; Bran the Broken will be chosen as King at the Isle of Faces, and he will rule from Harrenhal, thereby breaking the curse and establishing a new seat of power.

Bonus Point!

As a bonus, I wanna throw out that this is already being set up in the books by King Robb's crown, ownership of which the books have been tracking since the Red Wedding. The crown is currently in the position of Lady Stoneheart, who went out of her way to get it back. Robb's crown will likely eventually make it's way to Bran, and will eventually be placed on his head by Sansa or Arya at his coronation.

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"Beyond the castle walls, a roar of sound went up. The foot soldiers and townsfolk were cheering Robb as he rode past, Bran knew; cheering for Lord Stark, for the Lord of Winterfell on his great stallion, with his cloak streaming and Grey Wind racing beside him. They would never cheer for him that way, he realized with a dull ache. He might be the lord in Winterfell while his brother and father were gone, but he was still Bran the Broken. He could not even get off his own horse, except to fall." ~ Bran VI, AGOT

1 hour ago, Lurid Jester said:

Then again, have they ever mentioned any of Rhaegar's kids by name before?

The names of Elia's children with Rhaegar were mentioned once, in S3E4:

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THOROS: House Clegane was built upon dead children. I saw them lay Prince Aegon and Princess Rhaenys before the Iron Throne.

Also, the subtitles say it's Jorah: http://i.imgur.com/wDLQKav.jpg