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Lord Corlys Velaryon

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About Lord Corlys Velaryon

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  1. Lord Corlys Velaryon

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    Why does the Battle at the Mander page (& so the Shield Islands one) state that the ironborn won it? At absolute best, it was a draw for them.
  2. Lord Corlys Velaryon

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    I meant is it good policy/necessary to screenshot the author's permission? Say, for as you note, quoting such (with evidence).
  3. Lord Corlys Velaryon

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    Aren't they just! Although I downloaded the app some time ago, I haven't got round to using it yet. How does that go anyway? Get permission from the artist, screenshot that, & all good to upload? Burning bridges?
  4. Lord Corlys Velaryon

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    Sir Heartsalot is great, but this should be on the Battle Above the God's Eye page.
  5. Lord Corlys Velaryon

    Atlas of Ice and Fire

    @The Grey Wolf How do you think the Golden Company could raise such numbers so early in its existence with afawk, higher casualties & more frequent losses than in recent times, though? Primarily from exiles? Aerion & Brynden's urges need not have been public during say court, could easily have been behind closed doors with perhaps the Grand Maester of the time providing us with the account. Aegor's trial may have only followed after this discussion. What do you think happened to Haegon then?
  6. Lord Corlys Velaryon

    Atlas of Ice and Fire

    @Lord Varys The 3rd is certainly a possibility, but makes far less sense than the 4th, imo. For Bittersteel to seek alliance with the ironborn so soon after Dagon's reaving (which was only eventually defeated with royal intervention, possibly as late as 218 after Maekar became Prince of Dragonstone after Aelor's death) ... he doesn't seem to have been desperate enough. The Blackfyres would lose too much support from the Reach & Westerlands, the former definitely their main local support base & the latter arguably second-only, for it to be worth it. Not to mention, the Ironborn strength would be not be high so soon after Dagon. And although it sounds like he prematurely ended his rule Brandon the Shipwright-esque, TWoIaF chronology seems to have Alton at the least sitting the Seastone Chair between Dagon & Torwyn. If there were naval battles in the 3rd & Torwyn was part of that Rebellion, then Aegor probably would've had to have been supported by the Redwynes (or some Reach contingent most likely led by them) for their to have actually been battles. The Velaryons, Lannisters, & Arryns all-but-confirmed stayed loyal to the Targaryens, whilst Kiera of Tyrosh was most like still kept at court by the Crown to ensure Tyrosh wouldn't fully support (if at all) the Golden company with a fleet. And that's if she wasn't already married to Daeron. Despite sacking Qohor, that Bittersteel & his fellows had to sell their swords in the first place, means that money wasn't flowing into the Blackfyre invasion fund from Westerosi or Essosi supporters. Qohor probably only provided the capital to be able to launch the invasion, but not strengthen it with other hirelings, in the first place. Why don't you think it was Aerion who murdered Haegon? His "actions" are contrasted to the heroics of his father & youngest brother, & along with Brynden (the only other prime suspect) he called for Aegor's execution. Not to mention, it does add fittingly to his Monstrous moniker. And if a member of the royal family did such a heinous deed to an unarmed prisoner, it helps to explain Aerys' leniency in sending Bittersteel to the Wall (the very highest sort of traitor - just look at his eacape on the way) & very likely also to the likes of the Yronwoods, etc who fought for the Black Dragon again. ~10000 men as the strength of the Golden Company during the 4th (or the 3rd) is perhaps a little high, especially as they may not have suffered a serious defeat in the 40 years now since the Wot9pK & seemed to have been rather cruisey in recent years besides under Homeless Harry. Whereas it was only 17 years between the 3rd & the 4th, when the Company was likely still growing & diversifying their ranks. Isn't Tion the only Westerman, or indeed non-Crownlander, we know for certain who took part on the royalist side at Wendwater? Particularly given the relationship between the Crown & the Rock at the time, he was more likely just at court when the war was declared than having been home & bringing a Westerlands force.
  7. Lord Corlys Velaryon

    Atlas of Ice and Fire

    @The Grey Wolf In the History of Westeros episode on either Bittersteel or the Golden Company, either Aziz or Steven Attewell (yeah, I need to go back & listen to them again) speculated that the Peake Uprising may have been a Blackfyre plot to kill Maekar, to pave the way for a less challenging invasion sometime afterwards. I've long thought that the Peake Uprising was not just a rebellion from Starpike, but actually a forceful land-grab of Dunstonbury by the Peakes obviously for themselves, but also to secure a landing point for an incoming fleet carrying the Golden Company. (Near the mouth of the Mander, with the intention of sweeping upriver & trying to gain support among the Reachmen as Daemon I had at the start of the 1st - likely with eyes on taking Highgarden, similar to Aegon with Storm's End). Except Bloodraven got wind of it so Maekar was able to put it down quickly - he did have Reynes with him after all, who weren't necessarily at court during winter, unlike Egg's squire Tywald Lannister who would've been. The Targaryens dealt with the Peakes so swiftly that Blackfyre scout ships in say Oldtown learned of the outcome of the Storming of Starpike & Bloodraven calling the Great Council, returning the news to the main fleet before it could even pass through the Redwyne Straits. Without a secure landing point & the gamechanger of Maekar's death & the GC, Bittersteel decided to turn around to put forth Daemon III's claim with the power of the Golden Company behind their back. However, Bloodraven lured Aenys to KL well before his relatives could get back to Tyrosh to resupply, with them learning of his death (along with perhaps Egg's ascension) before they could make it to say Blackwater Bay. So, the Golden Company returned back to Essos to try again & I'm guessing when Bittersteel decides to seek an alliance with the Seastone Chair. That he did at some stage, makes me think that the Velaryons stayed loyal to the Targaryens all throughout the Blackfyre era, especially as Bloodraven was holding back the royal fleet during Aerys' reign too. The Aziz/Steven is more likely, at the very least because of it's comparative simplicity. Although I'm not sure how the Peakes thought they could get away with it without direct Blackfyre support. The timeline isn't especially helpful, particularly with at least some lords of the realm travelling all the way to KL for the GC, although perhaps the Northerners may have been able to send their votes in via raven - it was winter, the Starks were related to Egg through marriage, & Edwyle may not have been +16 yet. And the Golden Company could have easily been delayed with logistics, storms, pirates, etc. Also I think "a warning to any who might still have Blackfyre sympathies" is better explained if there was actually the possibility of Daemon presenting his claim in person, or at least represented by say Bittersteel or another relative, with the Golden Company looming. For the moment, I lean towards my headcanon along with the History of Westeros proposal as part of it (or at the very least, perhaps attempting to hammer & anvil Maekar themselves - Bittersteel & his men - which also would've produced the chance of taking Egg hostage). Anyway, I tend towards the Battle of Wendwater Bridge being the only one between the royal forces led by Egg & the Golden Company, but there was a number of other localised battles across the realm: Yronwoods vs Marcher lords &/or other Dornish (as it seemingly happened in the 1st & 3rd too), likely the Brackens vs the Brackens, possibly something in the Reach (especially if including Hightower vassals &/or some continued fallout from the Peake Uprising) &/or the Three Sisters (the Sunderlands dragged them into two of them, but it was only themselves that were at the 2nd), etc. Yes, the royal losses of <100 men is hard to swallow (though less so than what we're told about the Field of Fire), however this is why I think Torwyn actively fought against Bittersteel, perhaps with his longships sweeping upriver to catch them as they were crossing (along with the Targaryens attacking at the same time). The Ironborn may have suffered more losses than the Crownlanders &/or the details may not be necessarily accurate as towards the royal casualties. We've seen with the Vale mountain clans in ACoK just how well raiders can dispatch scouts in the Kingswood, so the Golden Company could've easily been in the dark essentially. Not to mention, there was the Stormlander ambush of the far larger Targaryen army that killed more than 1000 of Orys' men & he had the scouting advantages of Rhaenys on Meraxes on his side (although I'd guess she was perhaps grounded or watching their rear instead at the time).
  8. Lord Corlys Velaryon

    Atlas of Ice and Fire

    In line with Lord Varys, I'd guess that the Golden Company landed at the base of Massey's Hook, instead of anywhere near Stondance. That said, I think Bittersteel was quite desperate at this stage: The Blackfyres were soundly beaten in the Third Rebellion, if perhaps only towards the end. With Haegon's murder (very likely) at the hands of Aerion, Aerys probably showed leniency to Blackfyre supporters (helps to explain how the Yronwoods are still so powerful, plus the likes of the Reynes & the Peakes decades later if they fought for the Black Dragon again), as he did with Bittersteel. If so, the Blackfyre loyalists would have retained a measure of power they could swear to the Black Dragon in a future campaign, but which wouldn't be for another 17 years - Bittersteel had to regroup, rebuild, wait for Daemon to come of age, & was most like seeing out Maekar's reign (especially if the Peake Uprising was a Blackfyre plot). Support is going to wane over that much time, especially after three defeats, even among some Blackfyre diehards - Bittersteel wasn't able to take proper advantage of anti-Targaryen sentiment (particularly Haegon's murder), especially once Aerys died & Maekar ascended. Meanwhile, those who were more only sympathetic to the Blackfyre cause, were only punished lightly (if they actually fought for the Black Dragon at all). That would embolden some to fight against the Targaryens again if it came out to, but I'd wager it turned more towards them. Despite likely being a better claimant & potential king than his nephew, Aenys was usurping the Blackfyre succession & certainly wouldn't have had the support of Bittersteel & Daemon at the very least. Even with another Blackfyre murdered by a "Targaryen", this time Aenys by Bloodraven, Bittersteel wouldn't have been able to utilise it as much he could've with Haegon's death. Particularly once singularly suitable Egg was crowned & swiftly punished Brynden for his crime with the appropriate sentence. The Golden Company would've already been seen far more as dangerous sellsword invaders (a fair number of them foreigners) than gloriously & justly returned Westerosi heroes. Bittersteel was ever more bitter & kept losing. Daemon was born & raised in Tyrosh/Essos, essentially a foreigner. That's all going to blunt local support for the Blackfyre cause. It's all-but-confirmed imo that this is when Torwyn Greyjoy betrayed Bittersteel: Frankly, any alliance with the Ironborn as a primary ally is desperate - Robb more likely than not wouldn't have sent Theon to his father had Lysa supported him, the Targaryen forces during the Wot9pK were greatly aided by Quellon & his 100 longships, etc. The 1st BfR was virtually only a land war & Daemon was basically winning until the end, Bittersteel wasn't involved in the 2nd, & although also unsuccessful; faired far better in the 3rd than 4th. The Golden Company wouldn't have had the naval strength, most likely only hired ships & crews no less, to take on the combined power of King's Landing, Driftmark, & Dragonstone - perhaps not even any one of them. However, the Ironborn could, perhaps especially if the intention was for them to send a reaving feint to say the Bay of Crabs to lure out the ships of Dragonstone & Driftmark, whilst the main fleet entered Blackwater Bay (whether by sea or portaging their longships from the east) to eventually ferry the Golden Company across the Bay & fight with them. Bittersteel would know their local support had waned since the 3rd & was a shadow of what it was during the 1st - their best chance was a quick & successful strike on King's Landing itself before the Targaryen loyalists could rally to the defense Egg & his royal family. This helps to explain the Massey's Hook landing instead of say at the Yronwood river (or Wyl) where they had strong & certain support, or at the Mander to attempt a 1st-esque rally of the Reach. And an ironborn betrayal certainly helps to explain how the GC were only able to make it to the Wendwater to meet Egg & his army - Torwyn likely tipped him off & may have even fought with him given how amazingly few men that the royal forces lost. If that last is the case, it could have been an inspiration for Quellon to continue military cooperation with the Iron Throne during his own time on the Seastone Chair. As much as he was a reformer with the New Way; Quellon was a warrior & knew the benefits the Old Way could provide if utilised wisely, instead of doing away with it completely, unlike Harmund III. Quellon's men still would've paid the Iron Price to at least some degree against their dead foes, as would Torwyn's. Indeed, the chronology in TWoIaF suggests that the progressive Loron (possibly once a hostage of the Mallisters after Dagon was defeated) was most likely the only other Lord Greyjoy between Torwyn & Quellon, particularly as Dagon was Quellon's grandfather - it's not unlikely at all that Torwyn was even Quellon's father.
  9. Lord Corlys Velaryon

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    Just wondering. What's the source for the "500 other survivors of Robb's army" on the March on Winterfell page? Is it an estimation of Karstarks (only?) among Roose's host at Moat Cailin in Reek II of Dance?
  10. Lord Corlys Velaryon

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    @Rhaenys_Targaryen I understand all that, I'm including the info from the extended chapter (vassals augmenting the Lannister force with their own levies before the camp battle with the Reynes) & frankly over TWoIaF published if need be. It's not as biased (I know different section, but it's still Pycelle & Yandel), it fills in missing details (because of course Tywin would be so nice to Rohanne & Cerelle), & even with Tywin's rapid momentum campaign; the four Houses mentioned in TWoIaF wouldn't be the only vassals to respond to Tywin's call. The Westerlings would've been declining before this (indeed, some of the lands & mines they've sold are more likely than not to have been to the Reynes) & were never a top-tier military power (Lannister, Reyne, Crakehall, etc) in the Westerlands anyway. The Stackspears are even more forgettable, not only in the same department. And the Plumms & Baneforts are roughly middle of the pack. There's just no way they are bringing ~7000 men between them, to boost Tywin's then ~6000 to ~13000. Particularly not in 261 & on such a short time-frame. Even in 298 (after almost a decade of summer & peace) with all the extra weeks to gather their men, that would really be a push, if not just outright wrong. Alone, TWoIaF could possibly make ~6500 original & ~13000 final work, but no way with the extended chapter too. Not to mention everything else I addressed with logistics & that the text points far more to ~3000 combined than ~3000 each. It fits far better for it to be ~3500 initial, boosted to ~6000 by the time of the camp battle with levies from 14 Houses (12 of them unnamed lesser lords - Houses that probably can't even martial 500 men each in the very best of conditions, most like only clocking in ~200 or something on average), & finishing at ~7000 at Castamere. Tywin had just about the opposite & ideal circumstances in AGoT in contrast (indeed, his hiring of foreign sellsword companies, likely means he was planning to some degree even before Cat took Tyrion) & yet the Lannisters only field what, 35-40k in invasion forces. The Reyne-Tarbeck revolt only drew active strength from ~1/4 of the Westerlands, with some ~2750 men from the same quadrant in opposition. Casterly Rock & Lannisport certainly help a great deal, but ~13000 men at that time & in that time, just doesn't work. Multiply that by three (perhaps sufficient for factoring in Casterly Rock) & you have the host in ASoIaF - ~39000 men in less than a 1/4 (if not 1/6, perhaps even 1/8) of the time. ~7000 expanding to ~21000 instead, New Ghis fielding a ~36000 men invasion force is far more ridiculous than even the Lannister numbers! What mega fleet abandoned the city for weeks to deliver ~12000 men north of the river? If the Yunkai-led alliance had these numbers from New Ghis, the latter would be in charge, & a storming of Meereen would even be a genuine possibility. ~36000 is more than what the North or Stormlands can marshal & field, from lands possibly as large as half of that of Skagos, because Ghiscar is rekt. That makes sense.
  11. Lord Corlys Velaryon

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    How certain are the numbers of the Lannister forces on the Reyne-Tarbeck revolt wiki page? Both sources say "3000 men-at-arms & crossbowmen", not "3000 men-at-arms AND 3000 crossbowmen", for the original host from Casterly Rock. Bowmen of any sort are generally in the minority of infantrymen (& to an even lesser extent among men on horses, which I think Tywin's initial host all may have been, helping to explain the sheer mobility advantages they had against their foes) in Westeros, let alone crossbowmen specifically, particularly for a host that was on the attack & not defending a castle or city. Among ~6500 men total, ~3000 crossbowmen seems quite impractical, tbh: The garrison of Dragonstone is traditionally ~30 knights, ~100 crossbowmen, & ~300 men-at-arms. The Golden Company only has ~1000 bowmen among ~10000 men, & only ~333 crossbowmen specifically. The escort of Tywin's body back to the Westerlands only had ~100 crossbowmen, with ~300 additional men-at-arms, & ~lords of the west (sidenote: are the men that would be sworn to those lords, escorting & defending them, among those ~400?) In the Second Siege of Meereen, the Yunkai-led alliance only has ~300 crossbowmen (from Elyria) mentioned specifically. The New Ghis legions are Unsullied-lite (although the war elephants would certainly have crossbowmen upon them), I think the Qartheen camelry are meant to be more like heavy Westerosi cavalry than say Dothraki archers, I don't see even the "Wise" Masters giving their slave "soldiers" ranged weapons (besides perhaps spears) besides possibly a very low number of bowmen, & the Long Lances (completely?) & Windblown at least have high percentages of cavalry. Among a pre-Volantene fleet inclusion (which'll be the Targaryen alliance's before it even gets to Meereen, anyway) Yunkai host1 of ~20000 absolute minimum, perhaps ~30-35000, I'd be very surprised if more than 20% are crossbowmen (I'd guess perhaps 10%, 15% max); let alone +25% ... 1 I'm rather skeptical that New Ghis, even though it would surely flog Astapor at least in prosperity (particularly per citizen), could field an invasion force anywhere near ~36000 being smaller than even Astapor. It just doesn't have the lands to draw from like the other Ghiscari cities do, which we know they all have extensive hinterlands, indeed being the only plausible explanation for how the hell the Yunkish were able to have so many slave soldiers so fast (being from their hinterland estates that Dany neglected). I think Qarth could, certainly with the inclusion of its fleets, as it could draw from its vassal towns/cities & I'd be very surprised if it didn't control a good deal of northern Great Moraq (if not, even more of the island to that vast forest in the south). And it sits on an even more prosperous naval trade route, anyway. We don't even know if New Ghis bothers to exercise great control over Ghaen - it doesn't look particularly fertile - & we know Ghiscar isn't exactly a foodbowl & population centre. Two of the Ghiscari legions are north of the city & Skahazadhan, I'm guessing the ones that arrived later by ship. It makes more sense imo if the ~6000 legionnaires that Barristan notes at the Harridan are at least two of the legions that marched to Meereen combined, if not all four. The two legions across the river could certainly be larger than those that marched, particularly coming by ship (if the New Ghis ships were large enough, which they certainly could be for such a comparatively prosperous port city). New Ghis' six legions totaling roughly ~9000 men, ~12500 maximum, sounds more apt I think. As a sidenote, I'd have to imagine that the various cities of Slaver's Bay fought over the Isle of Cedars after the Doom - there has to be a treaty in place to explain why it's basically uninhabited & untouched during ASoIaF (& presumably for decades at least before). It should be riddled with pirates, reavers & corsairs; unless the various fleets work in unison to prevent such & really crack down hard on their own who set-up as such, in stark contrast to say the Three Daughters (where even state-sanctioned piracy is rampant at times). Back to the actual topic at hand ... Although Tywin marshaled his men before ("with all his preparations complete" plus he would've needed to have taken control of the household & maester/s so say Tytos couldn't interfere - he had overrode him eventually just ~1 year before, after all) sending the treason bait summons to the Reynes & Tarbecks, 6500 men just from Casterly Rock & Lannisport is really a long stretch, whilst keeping sufficient defenses in place, & in haste (there's only so long Tywin could control & hold his advantage). He only called the banners after receiving the "defiance" of both Castamere & Tarbeck Hall, even an already tyrant like Tywin would know he needed to "legitimise" his imminent brutality against them. And he very likely left within a day of sending out the ravens to other vassals - Tywin couldn't afford for Roger to be able to marshal up to ~8000 men with himself (though I think this includes not only his vassals, but the Tarbecks also, & certain other allies), or even half that. I think it would've taken Kenning, Prester, whoever else lives on that peninsula (if Tywin could trust), & Sarsfield levies at the very to make up the ~6500 quota, perhaps even the Leffords &/or Marbrands too - & it'd be quite the stretch I think that the Tarbecks or the Reynes wouldn't learn of their neighbours marshaling their forces. And even with the Lann's Point (?) vassals, Ellyn was able to send her own knights down there to seize Stafford & the other two Lannisters, rather no worries considering they got back to Tarbeck Hall fine (afawk). Assuming that Tywin only left the Rock with ~3500 men, he'd possibly be down to ~3000 after the battle against Walderan & his ~500 knights/cavalry (I wonder how many squires counted among/also with them) & the Storming of Tarbeck Hall. Though of course by the time the Red Lion attacked the Lannister encampment, they'd been augmented by the forces of the Marbrands & Presters, along with "a dozen lesser lords"; to have ~3 times the men he did. If Tywin had ~6500 men when he left the Rock, it completely clashes with the ~6000 he's only meant to have against Roger's ~2000. That is unless the rumours that Tywin had Roger outnumbered 5:1 are actually true (though I'm inclined to believe that was just one among many of the pro-Lannister manipulations of the historical record). Even with the addition of the forces of two middling lords & a dozen lesser, ~3000 men between them combined (~200 men each, many/all mounted) seems apt to me: Out of ~11000 Westermen, there would've been a couple/several thousand casualties (battles, non-combat deaths, serious injury, missing/deserters), just the year before with the Wot9pK in the Stepstones. All Houses in the Westerlands would've been affected by that, Lannister loyalists perhaps even more so by fronting higher percentages. The Westerlands had been rather chaotic & bloody for 10-15 years before that, for what was technically peacetime. That's going to have an extra negative influence on gathering men. The Lannister supporters probably only had say a week to get there, from Tywin calling the banners, before the Reynes. And if Tywin's initial force was fully mounted, it could've been as little as say four days. Even the Westerlings could only join the Lannister host after the Reynes had retreated into Castamere. The Lannister supporters would've been vassals of the Rock rather close to the Tarbecks or the Reynes/the line of march, with some (certainly the Marbrands at least, & not among the "14", I'd guess the Westerlings) having been preyed upon in various ways by Ellyn, Roger, & Reynard. So, the ~13000 Lannister men at Castamere comes from the additions of Banefort, Plumm, Stackspear, & Westerling men ("swollen to twice its original size"); but I personally find two middling & two minor lords at best, fielding 750-1000 men (Tywin likely having ~9500 men, give or take ~500, after Roger's attack in this scenario) each with only a couple of days extra at most, a bit hard to believe. Perhaps even more than 1000 men each ("the battle that ensued was a closer thing than might have been expected"), though I very much doubt the Reynes were able to cause casualties of more than half their own number, most like not even a quarter. If Tywin had ~6000 men at the "battle of the camp", then I'd imagine he only had ~7000 at Castamere (double original). Furthermore, a host of ~13000 men is probably going to have even more difficulty keeping itself fed (Castamere's food stores were seemingly vast majority/all, underground) within a few days (which it took to make it Reyne) & marshaled so fast, without some serious foraging &/or importation. Unless of course Tywin had Tarbeck Hall's stores cleared out before putting it to the torch, but I'm leaning towards he didn't. Admittedly, I only questioned this after reading Race for the Iron Throne's latest (historical) essay (& "commandeered" the alternative figures from there). I'd looked over the figures on the wiki many moons ago & agreed (without digging deeper into it as the former caused me to). TL;DR: Original Lannister host = ~3500 men, instead of ~6500? The latter is too high, has far too many crossbowmen, & so ~13000 men at Castamere is also too many - ~7000 there seems more like - all (sort of) imo, of course. Oh, wiki New Ghis is OP as fuck, & Slaver's Bay & surrounds needs far more world-building in future ASoIaF/world books.
  12. Lord Corlys Velaryon

    Board Issues 4

    Quite trivial, however I was wondering if it's possible to have a size 13 font option? - Somebody who dislikes scrolling, but also squinting at their excessively long writings. Thanks!
  13. Lord Corlys Velaryon

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    @Rhaenys_Targaryen - I'm (extremely slowly) working on a known & speculative timeline of Terros & I have a (perhaps too round, but it makes it easier) date of c.400BC for when Arlan III Durrandon overthrew the Teague dynasty & added the Riverlands to the Kingdom of the Storm: The World of Ice & Fire mentions once that the Durrandons held the Riverlands for "three centuries" & twice that it was more than that. I'm taking that as Harwyn Hoare defeating Arrec & his Stormlanders to add the Riverlands to his own realm as occurring c.96BC. Let's say Harwyn is born in c.120BC & is "sent to sea" (I'm guessing was effectively a soft exile so that he didn't threaten Qhorwyn's peace policy) to the Stepstones at ~14 (c.106BC). He then spends the next 8 years doing all of his international stuff to return to the Iron Islands at ~22 (c.98BC), immediately succeeding his father (because ailing health, greyscale & a Faceless Man killing his old man & elder brothers respectively). Then Harwyn spends 2 years organising, beginning & completing his Riverlands conquest (c.96BC), & then consolidating his rule ~6 months later in defeating Lothar Bracken (c.95BC). Harwyn dies in c.56BC at 64 having ruled the Iron Islands & Riverlands for ~30 years. He's succeeded by his (eldest?) son, Halleck, who spends ~14 years trying his best to be become Westeros' Worst Ever Military Commander, who dies in c.42BC (likely on the battlefield, say his third unsuccessful attempt to take the Bloody Gate). Halleck is succeeded by his eldest son, Harren, who immediately begins construction of his dream home, Harrenhal, which takes 40 years to complete whilst bloodying & beggaring the Riverlands in the process. The Targaryens land at the mouth of the Blackwater around the same time it's completed in 2BC. Obviously this is all (besides Halleck's death-Harren's ascension which is already in the wiki) far too speculative to be included for the wiki, but it makes more sense imo than the c.350BC dating from the RPG guide (from 2005, IIRC, & so far less information to estimate from).
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