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Lord Corlys Velaryon

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  1. Jeyne is 14 in 178, so was born in 164. Thus, conceived after Baelor had sent Aegon to Braavos in 161 or 162. Of course, the playboy prince wasn't in Braavos for all of his cousin's reign thereafter, as he fathered Daemon on Daena in early 170 - nearly a year before Baelor fasted himself to death (or was poisoned, perhaps by Aegon himself). We'll have to wait & see if F&B V2/Blood & Fire says anything about Aegon visiting Westeros in 163-ish; whether KL, Dragonstone, the riverlands, or somewhere else Lucas the Pander could (continue to) earn his moniker. Or possibly even the Lothstons travelling to Braavos, & Aegon hooking up with Falena again there - especially if Bellegere was off on a voyage, or in some other port with her local 'husband'.
  2. It could be the Hightower, but my guess would be the Tower of the Hand. Considering Blood & Cheese's infiltration of it & this being a Targaryen-centric book. And there's even some relevance to the main series, unlike the Hightower really (thus far).
  3. @Loose Bolt My guess is that House Swyft supported the Blackfyres at least once. And so, like the Conningtons & Darrys after Robert's Rebellion, the Swyfts were reduced from lords to landed knights. If perhaps not losing so much land & wealth as those two houses. Plus, with Cornfield's proximity to regionally-powerful Crakehall - assuming Redtusk indeed was from the namesake house, that is - it's not hard to imagine them fighting for the Black Dragon. Redtusk could've been married to a Swyft, counted one as his (grand)mother, been good friends with the lord/heir, or whatever. And as they almost certainly weren't among the most powerful of Lannister vassals anyway, Daeron II would've had more leeway to punish the Swyfts thusly. Compared to the likes of the Brackens to the Tullys, Yronwoods to the Martells, & (possibly) the Crakehalls &/or Reynes to the Lannisters - all of whom retained their lordly status, at least.
  4. Maegor's maternal grandmother was Alys Arryn. So, there's a good chance that the Eyrie, any number of their bannermen, & even, any inter-regional allies of theirs, supported Maegor's claim. Particularly if Alys were still alive, &/or if she was close with Jasper/his lord father. (In friendship &/or relation - she did marry a prince, after all, perhaps as a reward to her house for their loyalty to Daeron II.) The latter is potentially hinted at with Jasper naming his own daughter Alys, possibly for as close of a relation as her aunt. That would make the elder Alys the sister of Jasper, & they could easily be (grand)children of Lord Donnel - whose own name is similar to Jasper's younger son, Ronnel. If, also the name of at least one previous (Lord) Arryn.
  5. The High Septon at the time of the birth of Rhaena, eldest child of Aenys & Alyssa, was the maternal uncle of Lord Manfred Hightower's daughter, Ceryse. (Who was betrothed to Maegor instead of Rhaena, at the behest of Ceryse's holy uncle.) So, he was probably from a house of the Reach. A few decades later, Alfyn's successor was the brother of then recently late Lord Donnel Hightower. (Alfyn & Donnel were both among the victims of the Shivers.) Brother Hightower's naming had effectively been bargained between Jaehaerys & Donnel to allow Alfyn's, so it was (even more) of a political ascension. Another Hightower, or a Tarly, or a guy from a vassal or ally house of either, may have been chosen HS in 143; as he allowed Lord Lyonel & Lady Sam to marry & retroactively legitimised their children. She had briefly been wed to his father, who died in 130 during the Dance, thus making them step-family & their relationship incestuous in the eyes of the previous HS. Hence, the couple maybe ensured that a friendly one was named who would bless their union. Apart from those & possibly a candidate or two - like Mattheus (???) - we don't know the house of origin for any other nobly-born High Septons. At least a couple of lowborn ones have been chosen from just the limited known count, though: possibly Robeson, Alfyn, &/or Pater (almost the same as the common smallfolk name, Pate); & certainly, the stonemason & then the 8yo named at Baelor the Blessed's insistence.
  6. Exactly. All we know is that the Greyjoy cousins, Quenton & Dagon, were among Asha's captains. Balon may have assigned her/agreed to her taking other longships just from Pyke, or a mix from some/all of the islands. (I think they may have primarily been from Harlaw, helping to explain how few vessels are at Ten Towers from the Reader calling his banners for Asha, but that's besides the point.) I don't have editing privileges though, so you/someone else would have to change this please if it's the agreed upon action. On this topic, I think Drumm & Stonehouse participation in the Stony Shore raids should be removed, too. Just because Balon sent Dagmer to raise Old Wyk, it doesn't necessarily mean that these houses provided a few longships for his, Aeron, & Theon's campaign. (While, perhaps again, ignoring Norne's Goodbrothers.) As Asha is also deployed to raise Great Wyk - yet the houses of that isle aren't listed for her campaign - it seems to me like Balon was sending out his most trusted & prominent Pyke retainers to all the other islands to gather their forces (rather than doing so with ravens, & potentially risking a maester sending a bird to the greenlands warning of ironborn build-up). Presumably Vic, most likely Aeron, & maybe the Greyjoy cousins (or whoever) had already roused the other isles, without specific houses having some of their longships then fighting for whomever Balon sent from Pyke to marshal them.
  7. What's the source that Saltcliffe & Sunderly longships were with Asha for the Taking of Deepwood Motte? Whilst I disagree that their support of her at the kingsmoot can (presumably) be taken as confirmation, at least the various Blacktydes, Goodbrothers, & Merlyns have that going for them here. (By that logic however, why isn't House Harlaw also listed among the combatants?) Unless I'm missing something, the only connection they have with Asha is when she asks the Reader "where are the ships from Saltcliffe, from Orkwood, from the Wyks". That seems far too flimsy to include them. Let alone, ignoring houses from Orkwood & the Wyks, in the process. Unless, the assumption is that the Goodbrothers of these isles were those who shouted for Asha at the moot. But again, that's without evidence - besides, maybe Asha's good sense to beach Black Wind "beneath Norne Goodbrother's castle", so she wouldn't potentially be trapped in Nagga's Cradle should Euron win. Although, any other strands on Old Wyk could/would have served just as well for that, so this can hardly be taken as fact that these Goodbrothers fought for Asha.
  8. Amusingly, the 'History' section on the Mercenaries page mentions Lysa (Arryn) & links to her entry, rather than Lys.
  9. Amusingly, the 'History' section on the Mercenaries page mentions Lysa (Arryn) & links to her entry, rather than Lys.
  10. No, Rickard sends them out after Jaime before doing his (extra) bit of treason: Robb only executes Karstark in the godswood later in the chapter after this discussion.
  11. Why is the Dragonknight listed as the predecessor to Duncan the Tall as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard? Sure, Aemon is the last dated LC before Dunk, but there's 50-odd years & several kings between them. Shouldn't it just be stated as unknown or something? Also, I'm not sure Rohanne Webber should be included as (one of) Dunk's lover(s) when, afawk, they've only shared a kiss (& she's soon enough wed to Gerold Lannister after Eustace Osgrey dies sometime in the 210s).
  12. @Loose Bolt This. I suspect that the initial Frey lands once belonged to Seagard, taken after rebel king Petyr Mallister was put down by the Durrandons. Also, that the Storm Kings supported the early Freys logistically (perhaps even monetarily) with spanning the Green Fork, thereby making it easier to move forces in the northern Riverlands from east to west (e.g. against ironborn or westermen invasion) & vice versa (e.g. against raiding northmen or Vale wildlings in winter). (And against any future rebel lords & even hinder their movements, too.) The Freys would be a loyal buffer against the Mallisters, Charltons, Vyprens, etc (the latter two, interestingly, supporting Harwyn Hoare against Arrec Durrandon); owing their very existence & position to Storm's End, while a share of their toll collections could/would help fund the garrisons & campaigns of the Storm Kings in the Riverlands.
  13. Along with Arrax's, it seems like Vhagar's colouring has finally been confirmed! Looks similar enough to TWoIaF piece currently her wiki photo, too. Scroll through the comments for link of artist's comment about it coming from George:
  14. @Thomaerys Velaryon Well, I don't have an editor's account so I was merely suggesting the change for Lyarra's birth range, but yes, such datings solely/mainly dependent on the age of any woman's youngest child really should follow a consistent criteria. That said, Dorna's age has always seemed weird to me. Not because of the wiki editors, but George. Either she was very young when she became a hostage of the Lannisters & pedo Kevan married her while she was still a (young) child - yet they still only had Lancel when she was, at least, in her early 20s (though that could perhaps be explained if Kevan was mostly with Tywin in KL, while she stayed in the west, & they were just unlucky in conception on his occasional visit home, like in 273) - or she was an older child in 261 (still creepy Kevan), but didn't have her first child until her 30s (stretching the long-distance 'excuse' even further) & her youngest possibly in her 40s (not unheard of, by any means, but increasingly dangerous & utterly unnecessary unless they were trying for a daughter - & even then, they could've adopted their niece Joy for that, instead). I know little about fertility, but if the latter, I wonder if Dorna &/or Kevan had such issues in their younger years that somehow(?) improved in their 30s. @Rhaenys_Targaryen Thanks. I've also noticed that the Fighting at Sow's Horn source on the House Karstark page links to Dany III of ASoS (Chapter 27), instead of Jaime III of Feast (also Chapter 27). Additionally, the source for "an unnamed village" possibly attacked by the Karstarks links to Cat II of ASoS (Chapter 14), when the Karstark desertion doesn't occur until Cat III. I'm guessing it's meant to be Brienne III of Feast (Chapter 14, again) when she's travelling with Pod from Duskendale to Maidenpool, but I'm not sure what exactly the quote is that refers to the attacked-by-northmen-village.
  15. Lyarra Stark's birth-range could be brought forward a couple of decades, right? She had Benjen in 267 at the earliest & would've been at most in her 40s when she did, but was likely far younger. The only child of Lord Edwyle, Rickard, wouldn't be matched to a cousin far older than him, let alone possibly choose her himself.
  16. We don't know. One or both of may have died as a child, or married & had children (back into the Blackwoods or rival Brackens are two interesting possibilities, among others), or married but had no children, or joined the Faith (as still Prince Aegon's earlier daughters by Megette had been sent to by their royal grandfather), or lived in exile in Essos (say wed to Blackfyre supporter/s who they followed/& took any kids there - it'd be intriguing if they ended up aligned with Bittersteel & the Blackfyres rather than their full brother & the Targaryens), or mayhaps even been part of the Raven's Teeth. I imagine that Black Aly, Billy Burley, & Red Robb Rivers - with their weirwood arrows, incredible archery skill, & contingents of bowmen - were inspirations for Brynden to use, develop, & form the same. Perhaps Mya &/or Gwenys were similar to both Alysanne & Bloodraven, becoming part of the company's leadership.
  17. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there doesn't seem to a page about the ironborn civil war (& eventual Targaryen invasion) following the Burning of Harrenhal. Nor the one after the Red Kraken's death (& subsequent Lannister invasion). It would be helpful to have these created to be able to refer to, thanks.
  18. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there doesn't seem to a page about the ironborn civil war (& eventual Targaryen invasion) following the Burning of Harrenhal. Nor the one after the Red Kraken's death (& subsequent Lannister invasion). It would be helpful to have these created to be able to refer to, thanks.
  19. Why does the Battle at the Mander page (& so the Shield Islands one) state that the ironborn won it? At absolute best, it was a draw for them.
  20. I meant is it good policy/necessary to screenshot the author's permission? Say, for as you note, quoting such (with evidence).
  21. Aren't they just! Although I downloaded the app some time ago, I haven't got round to using it yet. How does that go anyway? Get permission from the artist, screenshot that, & all good to upload? Burning bridges?
  22. Sir Heartsalot is great, but this should be on the Battle Above the God's Eye page.
  23. Just wondering. What's the source for the "500 other survivors of Robb's army" on the March on Winterfell page? Is it an estimation of Karstarks (only?) among Roose's host at Moat Cailin in Reek II of Dance?
  24. @Rhaenys_Targaryen I understand all that, I'm including the info from the extended chapter (vassals augmenting the Lannister force with their own levies before the camp battle with the Reynes) & frankly over TWoIaF published if need be. It's not as biased (I know different section, but it's still Pycelle & Yandel), it fills in missing details (because of course Tywin would be so nice to Rohanne & Cerelle), & even with Tywin's rapid momentum campaign; the four Houses mentioned in TWoIaF wouldn't be the only vassals to respond to Tywin's call. The Westerlings would've been declining before this (indeed, some of the lands & mines they've sold are more likely than not to have been to the Reynes) & were never a top-tier military power (Lannister, Reyne, Crakehall, etc) in the Westerlands anyway. The Stackspears are even more forgettable, not only in the same department. And the Plumms & Baneforts are roughly middle of the pack. There's just no way they are bringing ~7000 men between them, to boost Tywin's then ~6000 to ~13000. Particularly not in 261 & on such a short time-frame. Even in 298 (after almost a decade of summer & peace) with all the extra weeks to gather their men, that would really be a push, if not just outright wrong. Alone, TWoIaF could possibly make ~6500 original & ~13000 final work, but no way with the extended chapter too. Not to mention everything else I addressed with logistics & that the text points far more to ~3000 combined than ~3000 each. It fits far better for it to be ~3500 initial, boosted to ~6000 by the time of the camp battle with levies from 14 Houses (12 of them unnamed lesser lords - Houses that probably can't even martial 500 men each in the very best of conditions, most like only clocking in ~200 or something on average), & finishing at ~7000 at Castamere. Tywin had just about the opposite & ideal circumstances in AGoT in contrast (indeed, his hiring of foreign sellsword companies, likely means he was planning to some degree even before Cat took Tyrion) & yet the Lannisters only field what, 35-40k in invasion forces. The Reyne-Tarbeck revolt only drew active strength from ~1/4 of the Westerlands, with some ~2750 men from the same quadrant in opposition. Casterly Rock & Lannisport certainly help a great deal, but ~13000 men at that time & in that time, just doesn't work. Multiply that by three (perhaps sufficient for factoring in Casterly Rock) & you have the host in ASoIaF - ~39000 men in less than a 1/4 (if not 1/6, perhaps even 1/8) of the time. ~7000 expanding to ~21000 instead, New Ghis fielding a ~36000 men invasion force is far more ridiculous than even the Lannister numbers! What mega fleet abandoned the city for weeks to deliver ~12000 men north of the river? If the Yunkai-led alliance had these numbers from New Ghis, the latter would be in charge, & a storming of Meereen would even be a genuine possibility. ~36000 is more than what the North or Stormlands can marshal & field, from lands possibly as large as half of that of Skagos, because Ghiscar is rekt. That makes sense.
  25. How certain are the numbers of the Lannister forces on the Reyne-Tarbeck revolt wiki page? Both sources say "3000 men-at-arms & crossbowmen", not "3000 men-at-arms AND 3000 crossbowmen", for the original host from Casterly Rock. Bowmen of any sort are generally in the minority of infantrymen (& to an even lesser extent among men on horses, which I think Tywin's initial host all may have been, helping to explain the sheer mobility advantages they had against their foes) in Westeros, let alone crossbowmen specifically, particularly for a host that was on the attack & not defending a castle or city. Among ~6500 men total, ~3000 crossbowmen seems quite impractical, tbh: The garrison of Dragonstone is traditionally ~30 knights, ~100 crossbowmen, & ~300 men-at-arms. The Golden Company only has ~1000 bowmen among ~10000 men, & only ~333 crossbowmen specifically. The escort of Tywin's body back to the Westerlands only had ~100 crossbowmen, with ~300 additional men-at-arms, & ~lords of the west (sidenote: are the men that would be sworn to those lords, escorting & defending them, among those ~400?) In the Second Siege of Meereen, the Yunkai-led alliance only has ~300 crossbowmen (from Elyria) mentioned specifically. The New Ghis legions are Unsullied-lite (although the war elephants would certainly have crossbowmen upon them), I think the Qartheen camelry are meant to be more like heavy Westerosi cavalry than say Dothraki archers, I don't see even the "Wise" Masters giving their slave "soldiers" ranged weapons (besides perhaps spears) besides possibly a very low number of bowmen, & the Long Lances (completely?) & Windblown at least have high percentages of cavalry. Among a pre-Volantene fleet inclusion (which'll be the Targaryen alliance's before it even gets to Meereen, anyway) Yunkai host1 of ~20000 absolute minimum, perhaps ~30-35000, I'd be very surprised if more than 20% are crossbowmen (I'd guess perhaps 10%, 15% max); let alone +25% ... 1 I'm rather skeptical that New Ghis, even though it would surely flog Astapor at least in prosperity (particularly per citizen), could field an invasion force anywhere near ~36000 being smaller than even Astapor. It just doesn't have the lands to draw from like the other Ghiscari cities do, which we know they all have extensive hinterlands, indeed being the only plausible explanation for how the hell the Yunkish were able to have so many slave soldiers so fast (being from their hinterland estates that Dany neglected). I think Qarth could, certainly with the inclusion of its fleets, as it could draw from its vassal towns/cities & I'd be very surprised if it didn't control a good deal of northern Great Moraq (if not, even more of the island to that vast forest in the south). And it sits on an even more prosperous naval trade route, anyway. We don't even know if New Ghis bothers to exercise great control over Ghaen - it doesn't look particularly fertile - & we know Ghiscar isn't exactly a foodbowl & population centre. Two of the Ghiscari legions are north of the city & Skahazadhan, I'm guessing the ones that arrived later by ship. It makes more sense imo if the ~6000 legionnaires that Barristan notes at the Harridan are at least two of the legions that marched to Meereen combined, if not all four. The two legions across the river could certainly be larger than those that marched, particularly coming by ship (if the New Ghis ships were large enough, which they certainly could be for such a comparatively prosperous port city). New Ghis' six legions totaling roughly ~9000 men, ~12500 maximum, sounds more apt I think. As a sidenote, I'd have to imagine that the various cities of Slaver's Bay fought over the Isle of Cedars after the Doom - there has to be a treaty in place to explain why it's basically uninhabited & untouched during ASoIaF (& presumably for decades at least before). It should be riddled with pirates, reavers & corsairs; unless the various fleets work in unison to prevent such & really crack down hard on their own who set-up as such, in stark contrast to say the Three Daughters (where even state-sanctioned piracy is rampant at times). Back to the actual topic at hand ... Although Tywin marshaled his men before ("with all his preparations complete" plus he would've needed to have taken control of the household & maester/s so say Tytos couldn't interfere - he had overrode him eventually just ~1 year before, after all) sending the treason bait summons to the Reynes & Tarbecks, 6500 men just from Casterly Rock & Lannisport is really a long stretch, whilst keeping sufficient defenses in place, & in haste (there's only so long Tywin could control & hold his advantage). He only called the banners after receiving the "defiance" of both Castamere & Tarbeck Hall, even an already tyrant like Tywin would know he needed to "legitimise" his imminent brutality against them. And he very likely left within a day of sending out the ravens to other vassals - Tywin couldn't afford for Roger to be able to marshal up to ~8000 men with himself (though I think this includes not only his vassals, but the Tarbecks also, & certain other allies), or even half that. I think it would've taken Kenning, Prester, whoever else lives on that peninsula (if Tywin could trust), & Sarsfield levies at the very to make up the ~6500 quota, perhaps even the Leffords &/or Marbrands too - & it'd be quite the stretch I think that the Tarbecks or the Reynes wouldn't learn of their neighbours marshaling their forces. And even with the Lann's Point (?) vassals, Ellyn was able to send her own knights down there to seize Stafford & the other two Lannisters, rather no worries considering they got back to Tarbeck Hall fine (afawk). Assuming that Tywin only left the Rock with ~3500 men, he'd possibly be down to ~3000 after the battle against Walderan & his ~500 knights/cavalry (I wonder how many squires counted among/also with them) & the Storming of Tarbeck Hall. Though of course by the time the Red Lion attacked the Lannister encampment, they'd been augmented by the forces of the Marbrands & Presters, along with "a dozen lesser lords"; to have ~3 times the men he did. If Tywin had ~6500 men when he left the Rock, it completely clashes with the ~6000 he's only meant to have against Roger's ~2000. That is unless the rumours that Tywin had Roger outnumbered 5:1 are actually true (though I'm inclined to believe that was just one among many of the pro-Lannister manipulations of the historical record). Even with the addition of the forces of two middling lords & a dozen lesser, ~3000 men between them combined (~200 men each, many/all mounted) seems apt to me: Out of ~11000 Westermen, there would've been a couple/several thousand casualties (battles, non-combat deaths, serious injury, missing/deserters), just the year before with the Wot9pK in the Stepstones. All Houses in the Westerlands would've been affected by that, Lannister loyalists perhaps even more so by fronting higher percentages. The Westerlands had been rather chaotic & bloody for 10-15 years before that, for what was technically peacetime. That's going to have an extra negative influence on gathering men. The Lannister supporters probably only had say a week to get there, from Tywin calling the banners, before the Reynes. And if Tywin's initial force was fully mounted, it could've been as little as say four days. Even the Westerlings could only join the Lannister host after the Reynes had retreated into Castamere. The Lannister supporters would've been vassals of the Rock rather close to the Tarbecks or the Reynes/the line of march, with some (certainly the Marbrands at least, & not among the "14", I'd guess the Westerlings) having been preyed upon in various ways by Ellyn, Roger, & Reynard. So, the ~13000 Lannister men at Castamere comes from the additions of Banefort, Plumm, Stackspear, & Westerling men ("swollen to twice its original size"); but I personally find two middling & two minor lords at best, fielding 750-1000 men (Tywin likely having ~9500 men, give or take ~500, after Roger's attack in this scenario) each with only a couple of days extra at most, a bit hard to believe. Perhaps even more than 1000 men each ("the battle that ensued was a closer thing than might have been expected"), though I very much doubt the Reynes were able to cause casualties of more than half their own number, most like not even a quarter. If Tywin had ~6000 men at the "battle of the camp", then I'd imagine he only had ~7000 at Castamere (double original). Furthermore, a host of ~13000 men is probably going to have even more difficulty keeping itself fed (Castamere's food stores were seemingly vast majority/all, underground) within a few days (which it took to make it Reyne) & marshaled so fast, without some serious foraging &/or importation. Unless of course Tywin had Tarbeck Hall's stores cleared out before putting it to the torch, but I'm leaning towards he didn't. Admittedly, I only questioned this after reading Race for the Iron Throne's latest (historical) essay (& "commandeered" the alternative figures from there). I'd looked over the figures on the wiki many moons ago & agreed (without digging deeper into it as the former caused me to). TL;DR: Original Lannister host = ~3500 men, instead of ~6500? The latter is too high, has far too many crossbowmen, & so ~13000 men at Castamere is also too many - ~7000 there seems more like - all (sort of) imo, of course. Oh, wiki New Ghis is OP as fuck, & Slaver's Bay & surrounds needs far more world-building in future ASoIaF/world books.
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