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madhikun

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Posts posted by madhikun


  1. On 6/2/2019 at 12:29 PM, Uilliam said:

    Jon is much more sympathetic in the books. The show doesn't do a good job of conveying the stigma of illegitimacy, but the books really do. He also comes across as considerably more intelligent than his show counterpart.

    But honestly, Jon and Sansa are the only living members of the Stark clan I care about. Arya is a loathsome archetype in both versions of the story, and Bran the Broken is tiresome. Whenever I read one of his chapters I wonder why the princely mystic hasn't been killed off yet. Sadly, he never will get the chop.

    Ahaha I had read all the books before starting the show, so I was already not a Snow fan. I thought ADWD was to show how both Dany and Jon weren't great at ruling, but Dany's instinct helped her triumph/survive whereas Jon Snow is murdered. Suuuuuper upset when Jon Snow was resurrected. "No one is safe." my butt!


  2. On 6/1/2019 at 12:33 AM, Tyrion1991 said:

     

    First impressions matter enormously to me.

    When I first saw the show it was on the recommendation that “it’s got girl dovahkiin in with dragons”. So when you are first introduced to the prolific Stark clan I was not really keen on them. They push them as being the good guys you’re meant to root for too much. They pretty much start in the shire. They all start as naive children which I don’t like in stories. So that completely writes off Bran and Rickon. 

    The only Stark I immediately liked was Rob Stark. Particularly because he played off Theon so well. Once he died it really damaged what investment I had in the cause. Which is odd because of course the show really pushes Jon to Rob 2.0 in later seasons but I was never convinced.

    Ned works because he plays off Robert Baratheon. Plus Sean Bean. I watched all the Sharpe episodes growing up so I was sold on him as the indomitable Northern Lord who’s out of his depth. Plus in retrospect I liked that Ned wasn’t this crazy nationalist who buys into independence and who wants to peg a tree. He wants to stay part of the 7 Kingdoms and that should be an enormous source of strength. The break between House Stark and Baratheon is a massive reason for their houses downfall. Which is why I never sympathised with Northern Independence.

    Sansa was alright as it’s the right kind of naive and it compliments the rest of the series exploration of chivalry and love so well. Plus making her clearly a young wide eyed Disney princess in a grim dark world is a great premise and everything just follows from that. However I disagreed with the shows take on her in later seasons. I wasn’t sold on her as the new schemer and her sudden interest in the Northern cause. Indeed I really do believe they only had her become Queen of the North to save face. In the books I think she’s going to be a much, much darker character. I don’t see her being Elizabeth the First and on her own. Never mind that in the show there’s so little to work with that it was never going to be satisfying.

    You can immediately tell what Arya is going to be the moment she’s introduced. This is a Dungeons and Dragons rogue. I despise that archtype. It’s the most edgy and hipster kind of character imaginable. Which the show and George keep playing into all the time. For me that increasingly became cringe worthy. The only saving grace for Arya is when she witnesses the Red Wedding and Neds death. But then, a plank might have went through that situation and it would have been sad.

    Rickon isn’t a person.

    Jon simply isn’t likeable. He is an arrogant self absorbed brat who feels he’s been hard done by because people called him names. I was not convinced and Tyrion pretty much confirms that view. However having done that they then abruptly try to swap him to “oh he’s the man of the people who protects little Sam who’s just like you, see, see”. This was an unearned realisation and set the tone for the rest of his story. No I was not sold on this. Also, him being budget Aragon was annoying. Joins the rangers on the eve of the world and is blatantly King. This undercut all the efforts to make him Rob 2.0 and then Danys lover later on.

    Bran. Oh my god where to begin. You would be hard pressed to come up with a more irritating character. Not just an annoying kid character, but needy, gets himself into trouble and he goes out the window too quick for you to care. Then, they push all of the cryptic spirit magic stuff at you which I am not a fan of. Again, trying to be edgy. I am pretty told “you must care about this kid”.

     

     

     

     

     

    Funny how you get my feelings about the Starks spot-on. 

     

    Unless someone tells me the books do end differently, then I am fine not reading them and forgetting about this series altogether. Sansa hasn't been spoiled yet so I am rooting for her in the books at least. 


  3. 12 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

    I always marvel when people criticize Daenerys for being "entitled" or thinking she's "special" or has a destiny. If you can live her Season 1 story and stand there in front of the kneeling Dothraki at the end with your baby dragons lovin' on you under the brand-new blood-red comet and NOT think you're "special," you're not thinking straight.

    clap clap clap THIS! Ugh I love Dany. She is amazing.


  4. 5 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

    Not at all. Some people understood the hints, some didn't. What does it prove in your eyes? That there were no hints? Really? Get logical now. 

    Some understood the hints and explained them well, in dozens of videos, a long time ago. So there were hints. More than enough. No discussion needed at all. There were hints. Otherwise all the videos were empty.

    Some didn't unterstand the hints, that's true. Some adored Daenerys, to a significant degree due to the very beautiful and charismatic actress. That doesn't mean that we need to discuss whether there were hints. There were. Tyrions explains this in E6 and that is how the show confirms these were hints.

     

    You could say there were hints about every person then, the only difference is that Daenerys had the "mad targ" plot device. If Targaryens were just rulers and did not have this "mad targ" gene, would Dany be any different than any other character? What she does throughout the show is exactly what we cheer other characters for, but we never call that going mad. 

     

    Look at the Lannisters, all of them are crazy mad but we never think of them as so because it was said they were cunning. Arya and Sansa have killed brutally but they are righteous, not mad. The mad targ was a plot device for D&D and GRRM to shoot in case they wanted to. They could have EASILY gone the other way and it would have made even more sense. I don't think anyone would be going "but it doesn't make sense, she HAS to be evil!" because she never was. Up until this point Dany had never targeted innocents. GRRM and D&D decided to pull the trigger. THAT is what makes horrid storytelling. In any other case this was a horrible retcon of her character. 

     

    So go on with your whole "we told you so" bullshit, you're okay with a poor ending since everyone else got rainbows and sunshine. 


  5. 2 minutes ago, sifth said:

    That's so true. Dany needs a Raye Penber. A person who is 100% innocent, but she still has a logical reason from her POV to kill him anyway, just to show us her warped form of a justice and how it doesn't work with anyone who isn't a slaver or overly evil like many of the characters she killed in Essos.

    I hope GRRM gives to us.

    One of my favorite parts of Death Note was when Light had amnesia - and then regained his memories so the audience truly sees how warped he is by his face going from puppy-dog innocent to manipulative-evil. He changed into Kira over time, not with one simple blow out decision. Again, lazy writing and the directors needing a shock factor. 

     

    What would have been cool was Dany to end like Kira did. 


  6. 3 hours ago, sifth said:

    That was the moment it just dawned on me that Dany is basically Light Yamagi. People have been looking away for so long because "Dany only kills bad people", which is fun logic to justify cold blooded murder, which she did pretty often; the nobles of Meereen being the worst case of this, but what she did to Astapor wasn't much better. Naturally going back on your word is fine "when the person your dealing with is evil", by her logic and the supporters of Dany. It's even worse knowing that many of the people she killed aren't even ones who are openly trying to kill her. The slavers in Astapor she basically kills, simply because "they're evil" and for no other reason. The nobles in Meereen she also kills "because they're evil" and no other reason; I wonder if she did any real investigation into which ones were hurting those kids and which weren't. Tyrion's right, there's only so long, before our real world views of what evil is and her warped one can match.

    It's funny because I also thought she was Light Yagami, but the way he descended actually made sense. They showed him killing detectives off that were following him. He knew they were innocent, but to him their deaths were necessary. There was a logical and long series of events that led to his descent into madness. 

     

    Death Note is a perfect example of this idea working, but again he didn't have the lame mad targ excuse. This show/series was just lazy. 


  7. 1 hour ago, AlaerysTargaryen said:

    I never wouldve imagined that I would end up hating the Starks. Never. Im glad Jon left them all behind, they all pushed him in the direction of how badly things turn out. 

    Same. I've never been a huge Arya fan due to her blind love for her family, but I never hated her. Sansa and Arya were the most self-centered characters and they still got a happy ending. 


  8. 12 hours ago, AlaerysTargaryen said:

    I hated that speech that Tyrion gave about how she was really always evil because she killed her enemies in Essos. We just cheered for her and didn't see the truth in the face. She killed them with fire, dragons and with other means. Just because she didn't wield a sword, didnt do it herself and wasn't a man, it doesnt make her a crazy villain. What she did in KL is another story. But trying to make us feel COMPLICIT because we cheered when she crucified child murderers and killed slavers is fucking insane. Why all of the sudden they are aplying modern sensitivities to the story?  In the recent EW interview even Kit agrees, Dany was never a good person we never believed the signs. FFS! Emilia Clarke seems to be heartbroken and very conflicted about the morality of her character even 2 years later. Whatever her undoing in Westeros was and her fast descent into madness/villainy it does not negate her past actions. Daenerys Targaryen was a GOOD PERSON and made the world across the sea a better place despite the doom she caused in her homeland.

    This is perfect. 

     

    As much as I love these books, the one thing that I find annoying is this whole "mad targ" gun. So god flips a coin, but it doesn't pan out until...whenever? Then what is the use of Viserys who is so obviously supposed to be a crazy targ? Why are there no crazy Lannisters? Cersei is crazy, Tywin is the one who taught her, Jamie pushed a child out a window, Tyrion strangled his prostitute, but noooooo it's the targs that are crazy. 

     

    GRRM put the mad queen plot device in there to choose if he wanted to shoot the gun later. He's stated he's a gardener who lets his characters grow, but he always had Dany's end in mind. If this is how she ends in the books then GRRM is purposefully misdirecting the audience just so he can shoot the gun and call it clever. 

     

    I rooted for Dany, I still stand by her. That last 8.5 - 8.6 was NOT Daenerys Targaryen. That was the original destination GRRM had in mind. Two very different things. The creators of How I Met Your Mother learned this hard lesson as well, as their once-great ongoing series ended in disappointment (so much that no one mentions it when talking about LOST and Dexter) and everyone forgot about it. 

     

    I'm not looking forward to the books if this is how it plays out. I will forget this, but I will always remember Daenerys Targaryen as how she is, not what she originally was meant to be. 


  9. 5 hours ago, Nami said:

    Is this really the ending we're going to get? Are you ok with that?
    I look at the books on my shelf now and think: Dany is my favorite character. I relate to her in a sense. I've rooted for her and cried with her. Is this really where all her struggles and pain are gonna lead her to? Turning mad and being killed by her boyfriend? What was the point of it all?

    I legit cried when she died - and started bawling when Drogon pushed her corpse trying to wake her up. 

     

    I wanted Drogon to blow Jon Snow to smithereens. But no, bitter is fuck you to all Dany fans, and sweet is for literally everyone else. 


  10. 1 hour ago, Tyrion1991 said:

    I don’t care.

    Fundamentally if you’ve invested in the character then all of that has been only to serve a hack heel switch. Jorah saving Dany sure looks very foolish now. I can never watch or read those scenes without this event colouring it.

    The only people who think it’s great are the Stark and Stannis fanboys who have always hated Daenerys and have wanted her to amount to nothing for the entire series. Well you have your wish. The writers and George have sure hell made me look a fool. Clap clap. Bravo. 

    Am I supposed to feel anything? Is there a moral point to all this? No, it’s a pointless setup just so the Starks get the ultimate win and we have Jon or some Stark on the Iron Throne. Now I have to wait for Arya or Jon to kill her (with Jorahs sword to add insult to injury). Great, your budget Aragorn gets to be King. Clap clap.

    Omg I love this so much. Budget Aragorn ahaha. 

     

    I'm going to ride this last episode out enjoying Dany as much as possible before the very predictable and boring  ending inevitably happens. Fire and Blood? Bring it. 


  11. 3 hours ago, LearnToBeNoOne said:

    Exactly, Davos is one of the more senior members so him saying that carries a lot of importance because he's literally talking from experience. Tyrion was acting Hand of the King in that battle and leading KL's defence. Tyrion was obviously aware of the bells in that battle so why would it now suddenly mean to surrender when it didn't back then?

    Probably means something along the lines of we will not surrender you have to take it by force - which Dany played right inot.

    That could be the next big thing, it would make sense. We saw how much Jaime means to him so he maybe it shows he wouldn't hurt Cersei because it would mean hurting Jaime.

    Bran could reveal something about Tyrion and Cersei that causes Jon to change his mind about her or something like that. Tyrion being exposed as a traitor would change things a lot. Got to mention Bran once more, last chance for him to get involved haha.

    See, now THIS would be a great twist. Tyrion has never done right by Dany. I don't blame her for not following his awful advice again. 


  12. 47 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

    I agree. She was.

    She snapped when sitting with Drogon on the wall and listens to the bell ringing. Having achieved it, even more frustrated then about it all.

    I read somewhere that she was frustrated by how easy it all was. She had let her advisors convince her when she had a full army and 3 dragons to go help Jon Snow with his wight capturing and white walker war BEFORE going for kings landing. She lost two dragons, Jorah, half her army, and Missandei because of it. 

     

    Even after rude af Sansa told her that her troops needed more rest (try to tell me Sansa wasn't stalling to play more politics TRY ME!!) Dany still EASILY took KL. She wanted this to be the fight of her life and she just took it. &&&&& Jon Snow was any day going to come in and take her throne (because let's be honest he lets his sisters rule him way too much and already "for the people" Varys had tried to poison her) so why give mercy? Why not rule in absolute fear? 

     

    Dany has come in and conquered. She tried to peacefully in Mereen and that taught her fire and blood.

     

    Is she a Ned Stark? No. But she's certainly not mad. Throughout the show they proved how she wasn't mad, Targaryens don't flip a switch. They are born mad or not. Dany developed into this. Which I think is a little deserved lol. 

     

    Also I think this is himym 2.0. Did GRRM/DD know how this was going to end all along? Yes, they did. But as the story has evolved and what it has become, was it the best route? Probably not. There are going to be a lot of angry fans because the writers didn't realize how liked Dany was going to be. How especially in this political day and age, a strong, confident woman (since day 1 I might add, none of this "my rapers are the reason I'm strong" Sansa bullshit) is what the people want. && now because of predetermined storyline, her reputation is going to be decimated. Well I for one as a Dany fan say FIRE AND BLOOD BITCHES!!! 

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