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Everything posted by TheNecromancerofMirkwood

  1. I mean, he is STILL King in the North, which is now an independent kingdom. He is STILL a ruling monarch and his people STILL chose him as their leader. He did what he did for the good of The North and it seems rather bizarre that he would have to bow down before a council composed of Southron lords plus Yara Greyjoy. By what right does the Reach, the Crownlands, the Stormlands, the Westerlands, the Vale, the Iron Islands and Dorne have to dictate the fate of the ruler of an independent kingdom? I mean, yes, Jon "Muh Queen!" and "I don't want it!" Snow is honorable enough to accept his punishment. But this is just moronic. It doesn't even make sense from the POV of how Westeros operates!
  2. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    Why didn't Jon simply refuse to accept banishment?

    With what army on the part of The Iron Islands? With what fleet (since Drogon annihilated The Iron Fleet)? They're literally the tiniest "kingdom". The Unsullied are INSIDE the walls of Kings Landing while the Northern army is OUTSIDE with all the baggage train and ships.
  3. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    Did the writers confirm Jon’s ending?

    Tolkien said, in one of his letters, that Frodo's journey to Tol Eressëa was purgatorial but not penal. Jon's ending, on the other hand, is in no uncertain terms penal. He got thrown under the bus while everyone else got at least an ending that wasn't depressing AF. This was literally NOT a bittersweet ending.
  4. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    What were Daenerys's plans for Jon in the long term?

    Yea, that occurred to me too. Her whole Westerosi Hitler speech just made it that much more obvious she was axe-crazy. I for one don't think she wouldn't have eventually gone full bananas and accused Jon or something.....
  5. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    How would you have ended it?

    Sure, she had to come to the final moment where she understood the Gift of Death. Its heartbreaking to read of her leaving Gondor and going to live in Lothlorien, though I am of the opinion there were still Silvan Elves there (and maybe a few Sindar) who simply refused to leave. Of course, an even more bleak version is that she doesn't actually die since, how could we know if she does as The Tale of Arwen & Aragorn is "transmitted" to us via an imperfect Narrator (possibly by finding a copy of The Redbook of Westmarch or via Ælfwine the Mariner finding "the straight road" to Tol Eressëa after milennia and bringing back texts authored by Pengolodh).
  6. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    How would you have ended it?

    Aragorn's marriage to Arwen is the sweet, as is Sam, Pippin, Meriadoc, Gimli and Legolas having good ends to their stories. Its bitter because Frodo has to leave The Shire, the homeland he did everything to save. The High Elves are finally leaving Middle-Earth and those that refuse the final boat (sometime in the 4th Age) as Galadriel says, " We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten". The Ents are doomed as a race since they will never find the Entwives. Dwarves will hang on for a little while, regaining some of their glory after they retake Moria, but they too shall perish eventually to be forgotten. Of course, even Frodo's bittersweet ending is not hopeless. He is traveling to Aman with Bilbo, Galadriel, Elrond and Gandalf (who honor and cherish the two Ring-bearers). His journey is said, by Tolkien, to be purgatorial and not penal. Naturally, this is not the ending style of Game of Thrones since its a Crapsack World to begin with and Benioff & Weiss decided the whole "subvert muh expectashuns!" means Jon gets the bad ending.
  7. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    How would you have ended it?

    My ending requires Jorah to have survived The Long Night and that Varys, in a final act before getting crispy-crittered, blabs that Jon is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.. - Eps 6 plays out partly like it did until the throne room scene. - Instead of Jon entering after Daenerys, its she who enters (with Grey Worm and Jorah) to find Jon Snow sitting on The Iron Throne (making her vision from The House of the Undying a literal metaphor instead of an ACTUAL vision). She coldly demands why he's sitting there to which he replies "I am the son of Rhaegar Targaryen, my Queen" before he stands up. She sits down upon the Throne only for it to cut her, which shocks her (basically, it judges her unworthy). - Daenerys begins screaming in a rage at Jon, berating him and sounding completely unhinged. - Jorah tries to calm Daenerys down, so she screams at him too. Jorah calmly points out that Jon is the actual rightful claimant to the Iron Throne by all the laws of the land and that Dany should be his Queen (which, in this version, she has rejected outright). - Daenerys stands and lunges at Jon, drawing his dagger from its scabbard and tries stabbing him. He grabs her to try and keep from being stabbed while Grey Worm tries to stop Jon just in time for Jorah to stab Daenerys, who dies in Jon's arms. - Grey Worm and Jorah battle, but Jorah prevails (Unsullied have a short stabbing sword, whereas Jorah is carrying a longsword) and Grey Worm dies. - Cut to scene weeks later as Jon, now the head of The Great Council pronounces sentence on Jorah for killing his Queen whom he swore to protect. As it was Jeor Mormont's dying wish, transmitted to him by Samwell Tarly, Jon sentences Mormont to The Night's Watch which is to be reformed to act as a peacekeeping force between the 7 Kingdoms. - Jon, as King of the 7 Kingdoms is to marry, his counselors determine that to placate The North, Sansa is to be his wife. Their marriage starts off as a political one (they're cousins) but indicate that maybe they will grow to love one another over time.
  8. While I think Jon has been acting stupidly out of character for a long time on the show, I just cannot imagine that he somehow DOESN'T keep his word to stay in The Night's Watch. No, he was escorting the Free Folk to where ever it was Tormund was taking them as well as ranging to gather information on the state of the North. If he was honorable enough to admit to shanking Daenerys, then he's honorable enough to accept his fate (as f'd up as it it), because he's an honorable fool. And yes, Benioff and Weiss are 2 hacks who cannot even give a decent resolution to a long running storyline. Closure is what the fans wanted, not this muddled "will he/won't he" BS, especially not after they "muh subverted expecatashuns!" all over the story. It would have been fitting had the 2 escorting Jon to the wall be Benioff and Weiss as cameos since they deserve to be sentenced to The Wall for this crapola. At the very least Bran and/or Sansa should have repurposed the Night's Watch to be more like the late Roman Imperial Limitanei at Hadrian's Wall (which they are partially inspired by anyway) or even more modern French Foreign Legion: a stint of service for "the Realm" for a specified period of time (10-20 yrs) before being allowed to settle on The Gift/The New Gift or Beyond the Wall. They would be allowed to take up a family after their service (their debt to society paid, essentially) and would constitute a ready-reserve force to man the wall.
  9. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    All who were vying for the Throne died

    Actually, its not the spectators who won, but those OUTSIDE the tournament who came in at the very last last last LAST second and murdered the Spectators as they were about to claim the crown. It was so far outside of left field that the damn ball went out of the park, bounced through the parking lot, smashed a window on a high rise 10 blocks away, fell down an elevator shaft before rolling to a stop inside some sub-basement broom closet.
  10. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    Was Sansa aiming for Jon?

    Speaking as someone from the southeastern United States, you hit the nail on the head. Moral or immoral, Southerners in the US feel put upon (butt of too many jokes for far too long) because we're kinda insular and backward (but are oddly welcoming to people). Tradition and family tend to be big deals (even if you family throws you under the bus). But yes, the descendants of those who prevailed over the Confederate States cannot fathom why "we can't just get over it" since its been 150 years since the issue was decided. The recent spate of "maybe we should burn/occupy the South again" from those outside the region hasn't helped one iota. The North certainly had every right to demand its independence. In all honesty, I thought the Iron Throne would be abolished and each of the 7 Kingdoms would go back to being independent or at least semi-independent of one another. At the very least, the North, the Iron Islands and Dorne would all either be completely independent of the crown, or at the very least semi-independent Grand Duchies or Principalities (ala The Holy Roman Empire). The writers simply lack of the kind of attention to detail that Martin brings (being a fan of the historical eras where The Holy Roman Empire was a thing) and the ending makes no sense because its muddled in trying to simply wrap up everything with a garishly colored bow simply because "muh subverted expectashuns!"
  11. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    Jon killing Dany doesn’t work for me

    I think the last scene between Jon and Daenerys could have gone a LOT better (and it requires the alternate scenario where Jorah Mormont survived). In fact, I'd almost wager that Jon should have gotten to the throne room FIRST and, after a moment, sat down on the throne. Daenerys and Jorah come in, and she sees him sitting and gets pissed off (literally making her vision in the House of the Undying a metaphor, snow on the Iron Throne). She comes over and Jon stands, before she runs her hands over it and sits, only for it to cut her (signaling she was unworthy to take The Iron Throne). Jon and Dany get into a incredibly heated argument to the point where Daenerys physically lashes out at Jon just in time for Jorah to shank her.
  12. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    Please end these storylines for me, which the show did not...

    Supposedly, the fella sitting next to Samwell Tarly in The Great Council at the end was actually Howland Reed according to a Vanity Fair theory. If that is true, its the most damning indictment of Benioff and Weiss throwing canon out the window in favor of "subverting muh expectations!" https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/05/game-of-thrones-series-finale-great-council-howland-reed-edmure-rulers-great-houses-men-vote-king-bran
  13. Not just Arya being a Faceless Man being able to free Jon, freaking BRAN who can warg into people should be able to take control of Grey Worm and set Jon free. There was literally NO REASON for Jon to be banished. Daenerys hadn't become Queen yet, and the fact is that most of Westeros loved Jon instead. The only solace I can find is that Grey Worm and all the Unsullied who are not natives of Naath are doomed to croak from Butterfly Fever.
  14. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    Daenerys should have supported Jon’s claim

    If only the doofuses D&D would have thought of that fact instead of making everyone chug Stupid Juice just to create needless drama. For Game of Thrones to have ended bittersweet, Daernerys and Jon should have married but she dies taking King's Landing instead of Jon having to shank her cause she went insane in the membrane.....
  15. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    Discussing Sansa - The Last One: Queen In The North!!!

    Yep! Sansa is nothing if not courteous. However, once she got to some place she no longer feared being dry gulched, attack of the crazy red-headed woman! Seriously, I cannot imagine that, after all the setup that GRRM has gone through with her character development that Sansa will in any way, shape or form turn out like Sansa on the Tv series. The worst of it all, in my opinion, was how she basically threw Jon under the bus. In fact, her doing so was worse in many ways than Bran's since I think the latter is basically an Old God being filtered through Brynden Rivers/Bloodraven.
  16. If Jon has been all about honor and keeping one's word, there is no reason to think he's anything more than the newest Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. He's going out beyond the Wall to escort Tormund and his people. This makes sense on several levels because under Jon the Night's Watch will have to rely on the Wildlings for information, etc of goings on in The Haunted Forest, Fist of the First Men and so forth. As for his a-hole relatives, no. I don't think any of them visit him. They got what they wanted and he'll die a lonely and bitter but honorable fool.
  17. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    Destiny of Jon Snow

    Years ago I fell in love with the novel Cold Mountain (was a Civil War reenactor for many years) and Inman's fate would at least be preferable to the kick to the nuts the Tv series gave Jon. Personally, I believe he will fall in love with his cousin Sansa (too many plot points seem to add up) and I would like to think if Jon and Sansa have a bittersweet ending, ala Inman and Ada, that I could live with it. It would hurt, but I would praise Martin for delivering his promise of a bittersweet ending.
  18. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    The "council" was simply a rubber stamp

    Ummm...why wasn't The Faith represented at this Great Council? And weren't The Iron Islands already independent by that point? There was no reason for Dorne, the Iron Islands or The North to remain in the 7 Kingdoms. They could have been independent Principalities/Grand Duchies ala The Holy Roman Empire. As to the Unsullied, how were they feeding themselves? If we're talking 4k Unsullied and how many ever Dothraki, how were they eating? Their baggage trains would have all been OUTSIDE THE WALLS with the Northmen. The harbor would have been under the control of the Northmen as well. So please, how the hell could the Unsullied have dictated ANY terms? And isn't Arya a fully trained Faceless Man? Why couldn't she simply sneak in and free Jon (and even Tyrion who could show them the remaining secret passages in/out out of The Red Keep)?
  19. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    Destiny of Jon Snow

    Truly, where is everyone getting this idea Jon was happiest living among the Wildlings? He was happy being with YGRITTE but she's dead. Every other Wildling leader (The Weeper, Varamyr Six-Skins, The Lord of Bones, Harma Dogshead) save Mance and Tormund wanted him murdered on the spot. He damn near lost his head to Mance at the Fist of the First Men. No, Jon was happiest living (even as a bastard) among his cousins. That's what he wished for, a life with children of his own. A way OUT of the stigma of being a bastard. Jon doesn't get to rule? Fine. He retires as a former King, the new head of House Targaryen settled with Wildlings upon The Gift. They would need to shore up the defenses of the area around Eastwatch since there is a gigantic freaking HOLE where a large section of The Wall was brought down. That would be a bittersweet ending, since the bitter is to be denied his actual birthright (rulership of the 7 Kingdoms), but the sweet is to be fully recognized as a legitimate Targaryen who can father children who will inherit after him. Him being banished to The Night's Watch was a middle finger to fans. It wasn't remotely like Frodo's bittersweet sailing to Tol Eressëa since it was (as Tolkien wrote in one of his letters) purgatorial, not penal. What happened to Jon was plainly bitter. He looked resigned to the world when he arrived at Castle Black and I don't think anything remotely changed with that since he's honor-bound to do his duty. I mean, how the frak else do you explain HOW get got arrested other than he admitted to knifing Daenerys? If he's gonna admit to regicide (a crime for which he cannot be held since he's a RIVAL CLAIMANT) then why the hell would he break with The NIght's Watch? The single WORST aspect of it all was the fact NO ONE mentioned he was a Targaryen and not some bastard. No one put forward that, "oh btw that guy that's accused of killing Daenerys, turns out he was a rival claimant to the Iron Throne with the superior claim to her." Jon's ending sucked.
  20. TheNecromancerofMirkwood


    Not for Jon though and I don't think there was any bitter for Bran. Sansa, maybe, because that last hug she gave Jon...but even then she COULD have freed him since The Wall is in the North and she's Queen....
  21. TheNecromancerofMirkwood


    How is Jon's ending bittersweet? He's EXILED from the very people he loves (his family in Winterfell). Everyone keeps saying he was happiest with the Wildlings. WTF? He was happy with YGRITTE and she's DEAD. He spent most of his time among the Wildlings trying to keep from getting his head chopped off by Mance or his eyes spooned out by The Weeper, Varamyr Six-Skins or The Lord of Bones. No, Jon's ending was entirely bitter. It wasn't Frodo's bittersweet sailing off to Tol Eressëa (since he was sailing away with his uncle Bilbo and promised to be reunited with his best friend Samwise someday). No, Jon just got screwed. It was literally as if Aragorn did all he did only for the people of Gondor to choose Gríma Wormtongue to be king and Aragorn had to return to live out his days as the Last Chieftain of the Dunedain of Arnor...but like in the Trollshaws.....
  22. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    The purpose of R+L=J?

    In all honesty, Jorah should have been the one to kill Daenerys, not Jon. There is literally NO WAY Jon was in love with her. Jorah, having seen her descent into madness is the one who puts her out of her misery and is forced to take The Black (as his father wanted). At least, that is how I think it could end in the books (since its unlikely The Others will actually be destroyed, but merely pushed back beyond The Wall). But, of course, no...Jorah's gotta die by some Wight so we can shove Jon into the plot 2 seconds before crapping on him and his legacy...
  23. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    The purpose of R+L=J?

    Eh, I think Denethor might have been shown the door had he survived. He ruled with the backing of the various nobility like Prince Imrahil. And the people of Gondor may well have demanded he step down because of Aragorn's proof of being the King ("hands of the healer" and all that). I'm not saying it wouldn't have been contentious, but I doubt even Denethor would go all Castamir on Aragorn, since his supporters might have been few and far between considering he hung Pelargir out to dry by leaving them to the Corsairs (not really his fault, per se, but still...).
  24. Absolutely! I cannot fathom why people are grasping onto this idea that Jon's ending was anything other than bitter. It was not remotely bittersweet, let alone this inane notion it was a happy one. He was happy lying in Ygritte's arms, not living amongst the Wildlings.
  25. TheNecromancerofMirkwood

    [Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussion, Final edition

    Yea, there has been too much buildup in Jon and Sansa's arcs for it to all be George simply trolling us. Like I said in my other post, he;'s now got the unenviable task of making sure he doesn't have his legendarium completely hosed by what D&D did...