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Iron Mother

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  1. *this might be an appropriate place for this thread?* It has been mentioned in passing even in the show I think but at least 3 times in the books that Cercei is sending fabulous "tapestries" to the Eyrie to Littlefinger from the King's Landing castle. I cannot think of a logical reason for either one of them to do this or it to be just what it seems. And why would it even be mentioned at all? Maybe it means nothing, but does anyone see an underlying "something" with that? It can't be to replace the tapestry from Sweet Robyn's flying porridge spoon...
  2. Now that we have seen a beginning to the mystery of Rhaegar and Jon's origin, it is certainly appropriate to begin speculation on the yet-to-be-seen circumstances surrounding Jon's birth and Rhaegar's relationships with his wives. The idea that Rhaegar strongly believed he HAD to have more than 2 offspring (specifically 3 - according to his belief "The Dragon Has 3 Heads") Elia Martell (his then current wife) was not able to produce a 3rd offspring. Therefore, Rhaegar may have had ample reason to set her aside (and possibly with her blessing based on his beliefs) to produce a 3rd offspring. He obviously loved Lyanna from what we have known about him naming her Queen of Love & Beauty at the tourney of Harrenhal, and now episode 7 has shown us that to make the 3rd child legitimate, Rhaegar set aside Elia and married her. In the books even, they were trying to maneuver Marjorie to marry ROBERT and Cersei was worried about being "set aside". So, there is precedent for this. Cersei and Robert already had children together. He was King, yes, but Rhaegar was royalty also. He was the Crown Prince. Who knows if "common folk" can do this, but royalty can. A lot of ragging on Rhaegar has happened as if he threw Elia away basically.... but having co-habited with her as a married couple for as many years to produce 2 children (Rhaenys was 3yo when she was killed) Elia was no stranger to Rhaegar... meaning, she was not a new wife of a small period of time. She likely knew him well. While we do not have yet a perspective of how she felt about him. Everyone beside Oberyn Martell basically loved him and all proclaimed him to be a most noble man. I would believe Elia Martell knew and trusted Rhaegar's belief he had to produce another child. If Elia could not, he took another wife to produce the 3rd "head of the Dragon". We will find out soon more perspective on this... maybe not from Elia's POV... however, knowing the little bits from many people who knew Rhaegar this is (like Ned coming home with a bastard child) NOT in his character to flagrantly blow off his wife to get with someone else. The "prophecy" Rhaegar believed in has come to pass in that Jon was hidden in plain sight and survived the slayings of The Mountain and the whole Rebellion. Had Rhaegar not produced Jon, there would be none of his line left to inherit the Throne. OR it could have been a lot more about the 3rd Head not just about the Throne. Look at all Jon has done and accomplished and probably WILL accomplish before everything is done. Jon is a "chosen" figure - a Savior archetype - and his presence in the world may not be just about Rhaegar being the Crown Prince and having an heir in Jon. Rhaegar seems to have gone through, tho, all the right steps to preserve his line (an heir) by making sure the first marriage was annulled and the second was consecrated properly. I said this long long ago that Rhaegar married Lyanna and it was not a bastard situation and everyone just laughed. I believe Jon and Daenerys will produce a child together confirming the Ice and Fire prophecy spoken by Lady Mel.... she has "brought Ice and Fire together". Perhaps THIS was Rhaegar's ultimate goal to resurrect the Targaryen line through them..... because currently, Daenerys has always been reminding people she is THE LAST Targaryen. "Incest" aside, this has been the Targaryen Way for a long, long time to procreate within a close familial proximity. I also think Jon and Daenerys' "union" will occur before they learn Jon's heritage. And she will become With Child from that union before they learn Jon and she are blood related. Less and less do I think Rhaegar was doing all this to place Jon on the Throne but that Jon would be a part of bringing back the Targaryen line. OR that he was not sure...... but he knew the 3rd child was something he MUST produce and he had to do it at all cost. *sidenote: As I write this, I get the feeling the "child" will be more about reviving the Targaryens..... and ultimately, it will be GENDRY who will become legitimized and given the throne as Robert's heir. This, because I think Jon might die at some point and Daenerys will eventually give up her belief to want the Iron Throne. She will realize the Rebellion was right in that the Mad King was not fit to rule and the Rebellion was not a "usurper" but legitimately necessary. And with Rhaegar dead and all his children dead (Jon hidden away) there was no Targaryen heir to take the Throne at that time. And like I said, if Jon dies or rejects the Throne (which is highly likely) Gendry could assume it through being legitimized and Daenerys no longer wanting it either. And as we saw in the show, Joffrey hunted down every single bastard of Robert. Except Gendry slipped past. This is a call back to Jon Arryn singling out Gendry in secret which led to Ned finding him at work as a Smith. What say the Forum?
  3. 1) You obviously didn't even read the OP if you are saying she stepped down or jeopardized her children or allowed herself or her family [et al] shame............................. 2) Dorne is hardly plain sight when your wife's family rules there. 3) We are talking about my OP which you obviously didn't read. Why are you here? Could his wife of perhaps 5 years have known him enough to trust him/his vision to bear a third child when she could not give him one? Did she believe it was her destiny for her and her children to die anyway? Why did Lyanna name their child Aegon which was already the name of Rhaegar and Elia's son? Could Lyanna ALSO have trusted Rhaegar's vision that Elia and other children were doomed? ▲ major parts of OP extrapolate. Come back when you've read it. I didn't make this thread to WETNURSE to the DragonWolf melodrama.
  4. I do not know if anyone is talking about my OP here which is concerning ELIA, the wife of Rhaegar and if she was complicit. WHY would Rhaegar take a woman from the North (rather, why would she go with him) to hide IN DORNE? Does no one find this telling? He went with her to the place neither of them is from.... and to the lands where Elia is from. Her family did not know he was there? SHE did not know they were there? That is the OP of this thread in case ppl forgot
  5. Missy is an endearing term I say to my niece over having had too much sugar and going spastic (overreacting). I do not come here to fight. And I also shouldn't have to explain myself but I did. I have never insulted or belittled you. If you took a jest wrongly, then put me to ignore. I dislike when people ASSume a motive when they know nothing about the intention behind it. However, every interaction I have had with you has been kind and gentle. I'm not asking for an apology. Just maybe re-think the context of what you said and your reaction. This is a frakking chat forum. I won't walk on eggshells in the hope someone won't have some toxic reaction to a word. Especially when I have never acted negatively toward you. Your post to me was far more aggressive but I took it in stride based on the idea you have not a history toward me being vengeful or mean. Why I cannot have the same courtesy is not even something I wish to explore currently. If you choose to continue to battle, then I will put you to ignore instead. It has been made clear these types of interaction are forbidden in this forum because they don't belong here. I'm not a person to go around reporting others. Just don't argue or choose to ignore me. Thanks so much.
  6. woah missy.................................... slow that up Are you saying: That Bran wasn't told "no" by Ned? That Ned didn't allow the pups after Jon said what he said? That Ned has no idea who Jon is? Seriously, what part do you think didn't happen? All true. DO you feel like Jon perhaps made a better argument as for WHY to keep the pups? You don't have to be royalty to change someone's mind. If you think Ned was "obeying" the true king of Westeros, then I guess Ned would have been obeying Jon throughout all season 1 on anything Jon said. I wonder if Jon ever said something Ned did not obey. And if that's the case, he would have been putting Catelyn in her place for shunning Jon and being like "listen woman, you need to get onboard with this bastard thing". But that was never the case. YES OR NO? YES? NO? YES/NO? Y/N? No other answer will suffice.
  7. Kytheros made the point. Jon pointed out it was maybe an omen for the Stark family.
  8. The idea Ned Stark eschewed the direwolf puppies.............. but "obeyed" Jon's idea to keep them because Ned knew Jon was actually the Heir to the kingdoms. I'm actually lol right now
  9. I would say that's looking into things a little too deeply
  10. I like this post. lol on with the bitchy quips!
  11. That's a very interesting thought I have not heard before. It never seemed tho that Ned was doing this.... but perhaps there were other factors. Such as Catelyn hated AeJon and Ned could never be seemingly treating him "well" in her presence. And Ned never really tried hard to stop him from going to/wanting to go to the Wall.... which would nullify everything he was born to be (with the oath). Ned never seemed to go out of his way to do anything different with AeJon but there could ne a number of logical reasons for it. I do agree with what you said tho. I can't think of it now, there are other shows and maybe a movie(?) that do this same thing where the "chosen one" is given a "normal life" to prepare him/her reasonably for their destiny in abnormality.
  12. ACTUALLY if you want to get in the mud and mix it up, the "Christian thing" is actually Vampirism. "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and will be saved from Death." - John 6:54 And not to mention a reanimated corpse -- with the same wounds (like AeJon and Baeric) and a lot more hmm
  13. HOW is this now drifting into the realm of real-life religion? wow it's a fantasy fiction book with dragons and undead.
  14. That's putting it lightly. It will be some Bran vision and explanation to the whole Great Hall in Winterfell in one fell swoop. Bran has become simply a tool of extrapolation lol If you need something clarified, you just go get Bran and he goes into greensight to explain it. I wouldn't doubt if Bran in S08 will be in the vision and explaining what he sees simultaneously. Less screen time to waste. Less script. Everybody believes Bran. Win/Win. Question: WHY do they believe Bran anyway? He's telling all these things no one else knows, how can it be confirmed?
  15. Yes... lol if you look there are all these news stories asking if the actor from Viserys appeared in episode 7 finale. I was dying! But I was saying the books have to be aside for this conversation -- the show has now totally diverged from Martin's story. https://i.redd.it/kax4ssbv4q3y.png The actor DOES look a lot like Viserys tho. Makes sense since they were brothers. I think it was good casting.
  16. Really? The show never barely explore any characters from Dorne, we never saw Elia.... but you think they are going to pull THIS out at the last moment to explain the motivations of Rhaegar - a character who we also have NEVER seen before except for a 10-second murky glance through the wig of Viserys from season 1?
  17. There could be a few reasons - the one I believe to fit the overall story better is he knew his first family was going to die, therefore, he had to make sure his second bride (but especially the child) was "authentic" (through marriage) and was a legitimate heir to the throne. Does no one think they discussed what to name the child? She named him AEGON. That means Rhaegar already had a child named Aegon and AeJon was basically a replacement for Aegon (who was or would be killed). I really believe there was divine prophecy involved.
  18. You may be right, however, I initially thought it was secret because Rhaegar had some kind of foreknowledge of the slayings to come and that the child would have to be a secret. It would have to be kept hidden (Dorne is a great place to hide something like that) in order to protect the child. AKA Luke Skywalker theory. Dorne=Tatooine?
  19. I agree it would be... except, they have already introduced these items of annulment and marriage to the second wife and IS AeJon really a bastard (no he isn't) and so on. So, I'm just going by what the writers have introduced. If they don't plan to make use of it, why is it there? If it was just a fling for love, why are they bringing out all these little pieces of information about possible legitimacy and all that. Didn't Bran say in plain words "he is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne" after that brief interaction with Sam?
  20. I've seen this coming for a while. I thought Daenerys would no longer desire the throne and re-think her whole life ambitions up until this point. I think it is symbolic it was VISERYION to turn dead.... because afterall, the "conquer Westeros" was his ambition which she took up. Then it became all she ever knew.
  21. Do you think you're special? I've already addressed your concern to others in this thread. I can't make personal engraved responses to every random individual.
  22. How do we know any of this tho ? We don't know all these laws of westeros do we?
  23. They died. Maybe he knew that was going to happen. And no one knows the "laws" of Westeros whether the children are then labeled "bastards" after annulment.
  24. It could be. With the lazy and quick writing that has been of late, they could be making this all out to be a battle in the end between AeJon and Daenerys about WHO really has the right claim to the Iron Throne. That would be a really vapid way to go with the show.
  25. Not really. Because there has to be a reason Rhaegar went to the extraordinary lengths to legally stop one marriage and legally start another legally. From this we can infer there were far greater reasons than a Springtime love affair. And using those reasons from the book, we can make the connection.