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"10" 

Is it exactly how I would have written it?  No.

Was it awesome, epic, and hard core?  Yes.

12 minutes ago, hallam said:

If Sansa and Tyrion end up on the Iron Throne, Arya will have to be the Stark in Winterfell. 

I suppose that's possible, but I don't think that will happen.

I believe that Sansa will end up being the Warden of the North in Winterfell (IF Sansa lives, that is, and I think that's a coin flip, at best), and Arya and Gendry will end up at Storm's End.

That's just my gut feeling, though.

10 minutes ago, Ilissa said:

I hope so! Such a nice couple.

Yeah, it's the perfect capstone to Ned and Robert's strong friendship.

Way back in season 1, they (Ned and Robert) talked about joining their houses together (via Sansa and Joffrey), and that was a train wreck, but Arya and Gendry ending up together brings great closure in a lot of ways.

11 minutes ago, LadyBlackwater said:

I just hope Gendry gets to be happy in the end. 

I'm still confidently predicting Arya and Gendry wiil end up together.

She just has to do one final mission, then she'll return to him, I predict (or he'll follow after her, I guess)

1 hour ago, tallTale said:

7

 

Arya leaving without even attempting to tell anyone that she's going to kill Cersei was bullshit.

Are we sure Arya didn't tell anyone?

My assumption is that she did tell, minimally, Jon, Sans and Bran (although telling Bran would be unnecessary,, I think  For that matter even if Arya didn't tell anyone, Bran would soon know anyway, and I'm sure Arya knows that).

20 minutes ago, Table8 said:

Yep, blackwater. Was it perfect? Yep, in my eyes.  Of course I would have “improved” by giving more screen time to certain actors (don’t ask). Blackwater gave everyone something.  From that perspective, it was actually perfect, in a way.

Seems to me that if there were ways that you believe you could have improved it, then it was not perfect to you.

And yet you gave it a 10, because...it gave something to everyone?  Do I have that right?

Because in my opinion, lots of episodes have given something to everyone, but I'm guessing you did not give them all 10's.

By the way, I'd be interested to hear which characters you believe should have gotten more time in Blackwater, but if you don't want to discuss it, that's fine, of course.

Also, do you know whether Blackwater has a "rant and rave without repercussions" thread here at Westeros, or something similar to that, and if so, how many comments have been posted in it?  

20 minutes ago, Table8 said:

do you think blackwater was as good as this episode? Do you think one is better than the other? How can you differentiate when you give 10s Willy nilly.

I don't give 10's willy nilly.  In fact, although I have not kept track of all my grades that I have given to episodes, I don't think I've given more than five 10's.  I do give lots of 8's and 9's, though.  If you've been reading my posts, you know I'm generally very positive and optimistic, and tend to focus on what's good more than on what's bad, especially for GoT where there has been so much that they HAVE gotten right (as I believe I mentioned above)

To answer your question, though:  I give both Blackwater and 803 the same grade, "10," but for different reasons.  Overall, Blackwater was more consistently good, but, as I think I've mentioned, 803 had by far the most awesome 10 minutes of the whole series.  Beyond that, I really cannot easily say which I consider better overall.  Perhaps once I have had more time to digest and consider 803, I will be able to make that decision (about whether I think 803 is better than Blackwater), but right now I cannot easily do that, and I'm not going to sit here pondering it for an hour.

By the way, there was other good stuff in 803, too, besides the last 10 minutes, and although a lot of the criticism of 803 is fair, I'm not sure all of it is fair, for a variety of reasons.  (Here's a simple example:  Lots of people have been complaining about how dark it was.  Uh, okay, turn up the brightness on the t.v. or viewing device, and watch it again. I did that, and it made a big difference. And there are other examples, too.) 

20 minutes ago, Table8 said:

i don’t grade anymore. What’s the point? But I can vocalize and communicate my opinion via words.

So, is it possible that 803 was maybe a "9" to you, then?  Or no?

46 minutes ago, Table8 said:

Btw, you asked if I ever gave a 10 before.  I did.  You can probably guess the episode.  No, not this one

Was Blackwater "perfect"?

No way it could have been improved, in any way?

And what was your grade for 803?

No 

40 minutes ago, Table8 said:

 

You like bird poop on your steak, enjoy.  I said everything I had to say.  

HAR!

Okay, hope you love the last 3 episodes!

1 hour ago, Table8 said:

A 10/10 means the episode is perfect.  That’s the grade you, and 79 other people, gave it.  You said you hear ME about flaws.  Reread my post.  I didn’t mention flaws - YOU mentioned all the flaws.  And yet, you still gave it a 10.  

As I mentioned above, I think the grading is highly subjective, including how the grades are determined in the grader's mind.  To you, it means "perfect."  Well, very little or nothing is "perfect," so why does the grade of "10" even exist?  Have you ever given an episode a 10?  If so, I'd be curious to know which one(s), and then, I'm guessing, I could nitpick stuff in that episode or episodes too, if I wanted.  (Consider the Star Wars franchise.  MANY people would grade Episode IV, A New Hope, a "10," yet it has fairly major flaws in a variety of areas. And Star Wars is just one other example that I chose among many, many others I could have chosen.)

To me, a single truly excellent moment can make up for other flaws.  To you, I guess it can't.  Part of your point in this thread, as I understand it, is that you can't understand how anyone could give Episode 3 a high grade, much less a "10."  Well, I'm trying to answer your question, and  I think I have, which I'll now summarize:  I believe that not everybody gives grades in the same way, but rather, it is highly subjective, different from person to person.

I do think it's worth noting, though, that last time I checked the grades of "10" for Episode 3 had FAR more votes than any other grade, and as I recall, over 50% gave it a 7 or higher.  I think that means most people disagree with your evaluation (by the way, what IS your grade for Episode 3? If you mentioned it above somewhere, I either missed it or don't recall it.).

1 hour ago, Table8 said:

If I go to a restaurant and the chef grills me a perfect steak, but then a bird takes a dump on it as the waiter brings it to my table, the steak is ruined.  I don’t care how good the mashed potatoes are! It’s not a 10/10.  Yet that’s your reasoning, that the ending erased all the bird poop prior.  That is not perfect.

I don't view the flaws in Episode 3 to be anywhere near as severe as a bird doing what you describe, for reasons I already described at great length above, and won't rehash.  But again, this is highly subjective.  Some people go to restaurants and spend nearly the entire time complaining about the smallest imperfection in their meal (and/or service), and others go and have a different perspective (and therefore a different experience) entirely.  I choose to not be a person who focuses heavily on negativity, as I've also talked about above, I think.

Having said that, I do not deny the flaws in Episode 3.  Oh yeah, they were there, they were real.  As I've said, I had it at a 6 or 7 until the last 10 minutes or so, but then the last 10 minutes were the best 10 minutes of the entire series for me, and that carried a LOT of weight in my final grade.

1 hour ago, Table8 said:

Why are people so willing to give this show such high grades.  It enabled the talentless hacks that are D&D to make the crap they’ve been making over the last 4 seasons.  Why would they even try anymore?  People just eat it up anyway.  Like jangling keys in front of babies, or laser pointer for cats.  Quality doesn’t matter, they make it and people eat it up - bird poop and all.

GoT/ASOIAF is larger than D&D.  The story was here before they arrived on the scene, and it will be here long after they depart the scene (indeed, it's already moving on without them, as D&D head over to Disney to make a Star Wars trilogy, I believe).  D&D do not get the credit for the vast majority of the story (GRRM does, obviously), and to me they can't ruin the series as a whole just by stumbling pretty badly here and there (and they HAVE stumbled, although to be fair to them, D&D have gotten a WHOLE HECKUVA LOT right over the last 9 years, too.  Let's be fair to D&D, without them we probably would never have seen anything remotely like the production we've seen over the last 9 years, and GoT/ASOIAF has been propelled to international popularity well beyond where it was before, bringing in tens and tens of millions (probably even "hundreds of millions," I would guess) of new fans in the process. Isnt't that an incredibly good thing?)

And this MIGHT be the only ending we ever get to the original storyline.  That is a very real possibility (I believes Winds of Winter will be published, but I have little to no confidence that Dream of Spring will be, at least not written primarily by GRRM), and IF this HBO production does end up being the only ending we ever get, I choose to spend my time watching it while focusing heavily on what they DO get right, and savoring every bit of it.

But hey, that's me, and I fully understand other people approach life differently.

26 minutes ago, Table8 said:

You acknowledged so many BIG problems, yet still gave it a 10?  If the problems were not there what would you have rated it?

A “10” is reserved for an episode like “Blackwater”.  You are saying this episode is as good as that.

Please, I’m begging - CAN ALL OF THE PEOPLE THAT RATED THIS EPISODE A “10” PLEASE HAVE SOME PERSPECTIVE AND, MAYBE, A LITTLE MEMORY AS TO HOW GOOD THIS SHOW USED TO BE???

 

FFS

Sure, I hear you about there being flaws.

In fact, I went out of my way to describe them, AND mention that for me the grade was hovering around a 6 or 7 until...KABOOM, the last 10 minutes or so were just flat out awesome.

 In fact, they were SO awesome that for me, the other flaws just melted away, and really didn't much matter for my final grade, especially since:

(1) The darkness was a major gripe I had, but then I turned up the brightness and watched again, and it was much better.  Maybe some of the other people griping about the darkness should...turn up the brightness on whatever device they are watching on and watch it again, too?  Maybe.

(2) Sure, their tactics were terrible, but WHO is supposed to be the great military mind here anyway??  Dany??  She has no background in that.  Sure, she's been in fights, but military tactics and strategy?? Naw.   Jaime?? Nope.  He was a great fighter, but no great military mind, ever.  Tyrion?? Practically zero background in that area.  Jon??  Nope.  Not only does he have no background in that area, but we've seen him make huge tactical mistakes and blunders before, most notably in the very popular "Battle of the Bastards."  Davos?  Naw, not really.   He's called the Onion Knight, but he has no real military background.  Jorah?  Maybe, but again, he's a great fighter with very little if any strategy experience or training, so far as I know.  Varys? Nope.  Missandei?  Nope.  Grey Worm?  Maybe.  We've seen him show some good stuff in this area before, but that doesn't mean he'd be a good pick for planning something like this on such short notice, and even then it's not really clear how much (if any) "command" training he was given., if any.  Lyanna Mormont?  Nope.  Sandor, Arya, Tormund, Brienne????  Nope, nope, nope, nope,  just more great fighters or warriors with little to no background or training in military tactics or strategy, so far as I know.  So, who is the great military genius that I'm overlooking in this group that was supposed to put together a great battle plan, especially on such short notice? Gendry? Nope.  Melisandre? Nooe. Beric? Nope.

(3) Regarding the plot armor for many of them (most notably Brienne, Jaime, Gendry and others).  Did I like the plot armor? NO. Can I accept it? Sure, I basically have no choice, cuz that's the way it's gonna be in fiction (books and movies), and that's how it has already been in this show AND in other ultra-classic fantasy fiction.  (Indeed, Lord of the Rings has PLENTY of this stuff.  Ever see The Two Towers?  Wow.)

So, yeah, these are all flaws, and I acknowledged them, but then that ending of Episode 3 was simply epic and awesome to me, and that took it up to a 10.

Next, I would note that grading episodes is highly subjective and, in my opinion, often reflects the personality and outlook on life of the grader.  Some people are pessimistic by nature, and are going to focus on the stuff they didn't like to the near-exclusion of everything else.  There are people in this world who, if they see something 97% good and 3% bad, are going to lock in on the bad 3% and declare that the whole thing sucks.  I guarantee you that there are such people in this world. 

On the other hand, some people tend to be more positive and optimistic in life, and tend to focus on the good things, and I think I'm generally one of those people.  Did I see flaws? Yes, I listed them in my post above this post. But then the ending was just a grand slam, totally knocked it out of the park, and THAT is what left a lasting impression on me, and that is what I'll remember this episode for.

Finally, I would note that some people, in my opinion, are just predisposed to dislike this episode because it was The Big Showdown With The Night King (my words) and their favorite character(s) didn't have the spotlight as they have been predicting and/or fervently hoping for years would happen, and they are deeply disappointed by that.  But how many people do you know who say Arya is their favorite character, yet still hated this episode?  I'm guessing "not many." (For me, Arya is one of my favorite characters, certainly top 3 to 5, but I don't think I could say who would rank #1 for me.)

10.

Was it dark? Yes (but I watched it again with the brightness turned up on my t.v., and that was much better.)  Were the military tactics and strategy abysmal?  Yes, I daresay they were.   Did certain characters have plot armor about 2 feet thick (Brienne, Gendry, Jaime, others)? YES.

But when the music really slowed down, and the Night King was closing in on Bran, and the other characters were so close to getting crossed off, but then ARYA CROSSED OFF THE NIGHT KING, it was the single greatest moment ever on the show for me.  I loved it, and it brought the episode all the way up in my mind from a 6 or 7 (where it had been hovering) to a rock solid 10.

P.S.  The death of Lyanna Mormont was devastating, right up there with what happened to Shireen.  I'll be scarred and traumatized by that forever, I think. 

49 minutes ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

9/10 for me.

A good deal new was learned--Jon's true name, Cersei's plan with Euron, what happens when the NK reanimates a dragon, how The Wall looks tumbling down, what it looks like when KINT and his aunt bump nasties, and how LF dies.  All that coupled with the great Dragon Pitt scene/reunions and you've got a winning episode in my book.

I guess technically now that the Dothraki are on Westeros that's true.

It felt like it came 3 episodes too late. Basically the whole LF/Arya/Sansa plot was drawn out drama that was well telegraphed and led to a very predictable conclusion. The whole dagger plot was just glossed over in the litany of LF's crimes. It felt a bit anticlimactic. It's a subpar scene in terms of writing compared to S1-5; however, in terms of performance, it is on point. And with all that being said, I liked seeing the Starks score a win. 

Yeah, I think you're probably right, it came about 3 episodes later than it should have.

I think it would have been much more realistic for Bran to show up and tell Sansa "Uhhhhh...you know that guy's evil, right??  Oh, no, you didn't know that, not really?  Well, lemme tell you what he's been up to for the last 6 or 7 years..."  After which LF would have been crossed off within about 30 minutes or so of Bran being wheeled into Winterfell.

But they saved it for the finale, and I thought it was worth it when it finally came.

10.

Best scene:  "3 Starks Gang Up on LF and Cross Him Off."

8 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

That didnt seem like filler for me. 

I wont be surprized if something significant and permanent develops from this plotline. Wherever we see LF, it seems a betrayal of some sort soon follows. We know he's not just idily hanging out at WF.  He's plotting and there is plenty of intrigue over how this could play out.

Maybe.

You could be right.

In my mind, I'll judge it by whether, after it is resolved, everyone just basically returns to where they were before the issue arose.

I'll make this prediction, though:  NONE of them (Arya, Sansa, Littlefinger) will die this season.

Perhaps if one of them leaves Winterfell this season b/c of this issue, that will qualify as a significant development, but I honestly don't believe that will happen, either.

Even IF Arya and Sansa discover that LF let Arya find that letter (and I don't see how they could discover that, short of LF admitting it, which he is NOT going to do), he hasn't even told any lie or anything here. The letter IS real, it IS legitimate, Sansa doesn't even deny it.  (Not that I think that makes Arya's reaction reasonable, though)

3 hours ago, direwoofwoof said:

Their scenes seemed like wasted airtime. And I hated Brianne leaving. She seems to be the only voice is reason at WF.

Agreed.

The whole Arya/Sansa sub-plot has the feel of "filler" to me, to give those characters something to do while much more important stuff is happening elsewhere.

I'll be surprised if any of it leads to any significant and permanent events for Arya, Sansa, and/or Littlefinger.

11 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I think I'm too irritated to vote. 

Right now I would vote this the lowest episode ever. Maybe after my foul mood has passed I will reconsider. 

This episode was full of BS. 

The whole idea of going to capture a wight to bring to Cersei is idiotic but I tried to let that go & enjoy the show. 

Things I didn't like: 

The whole WF plot. What even is going on here?! Are Sansa & Arya the dumbest people on the planet? Sansa knows exactly what LF is capable of but all the sudden is confiding in him? She asks Arya how she got the letter but when Arya doesn't answer that's it? No more thought is given to where it came from? It would take very little thought for Sansa to figure out it came from LF. And I understand Arya being angry but after everything the both of them have been through they can't even have a normal conversation? Is Sansa trying to get Brienne killed?! Stupid. & where in the hell is Bran?! He can't spew some of that omnipotent knowledge to save his sisters? Ugh. It honestly just left me confused. Why didn't Sansa just say fuck Cersei? She doesnt have to answer her invitation. & why did Arya give her the knife? Hopefully D&D have a masterful plan going on here & I will have to eat my words. 

I'm over worrying about the teleporting so I'll leave that be but the whole beyond the wall scene was stupid too. A big, giant, undead bear attacks them, chews on Thoros' intestines for a few minutes while the Hound stares & everyone else does nothing until Jorah runs up & stabs it with a little tiny knife & *poof* it's dead & a little whiskey & fire & Thoros is up walking again?! No way. Why couldn't the others just swim through the water? Why are they too stupid to know they are getting hit in the face with rocks but smart enough to realize the water has refrozen? Maybe the NK was controlling them then I guess? Jon in subzero water for minutes not only survives but then rides a horse, while wet, clear back to the wall. Impossible. Also Dany & co had already left Jon for dead we didn't need another left for dead scene with Jon & Benjen. Then Dany is soooo worried about Jon after she left him that she almost can't bear to leave the wall BUT doesn't think to go look for him? Fly around & look if u think he may still be alive? 

Why in the world would Dany make Tyrion her hand if she always thinks he is choosing his families side? What is the purpose of a hand if no one listens to them or weighs their advice?

Where the eff is Ghost?! He is bound to Jon & hasn't even been mentioned since last season iirc. 

Things I liked:

Not much. Some of the dialogue from the A-team beyond the wall - not because it helps the plot or because it was written well, mostly because some of it was funny & I enjoy the actors. 

Dany & Jon at the end. Emilia does much better showing emotion & sensitivity than being demanding/commanding. 

The Ice dragon: I guess I liked it. I want to be excited about it but I'm so frustrated over the rest of the episode I just can't be. 

Hey, thanks for typing all that!

You saved me the trouble.

HARR!!!

Ouch.

6.

Lowest rating I've ever given.

Too much that was wildly unrealistic, and I intensely dislike what is developing between Arya and Sansa.

I gave it an "8."

Nothing "bad" about it, but it was an episode to set up the final two, which is fine, and sometimes necessary.

I can't expect every episode to have huge battles and major plot developments, but I can't rate episodes that don't on the same level as episodes that do.

It's a strong season, though, far as I'm concerned (my grades for it are now 9, 9, 9, 10, and 8)

10.

Tremendous episode, especially all the Winterfell stuff with Arya and her various reunions, plus the big battle at the end.

13 hours ago, watcher of the night said:

The whole show is bereft of logic. They wanted an epic showdown between Jon and Ramsay where the KtoV can ride in the last second and save the day, so they did it. The whole fight was cringeworty from the point of view of both sides; they fought as 6 or 8 year old kid would imagine a "big fight". But it was cinematic, dramatic and it sold out well.

Yeah, I hear you, it's pretty easy to criticize the battle's "tactics' and "strategies," and I've done plenty of that myself.

Still, though, it was a grand spectacle, and I enjoyed watching it.

And the very end was great, when Wun Wun broke the door down, charged in, then Jon came in and took Ramsay down, hard.  That moment was a LONG time coming.

19 hours ago, no_one_... said:

Yeah the ice shield was tongue in cheek along with the iced snow balls.  But, they've already shown him breaking down a door on his own at castle black, he would just need cover to do so.  Not that hard imo.

Also, how many troops would Ramsey really have left?  Other than Bolton and Karstarks weren't most of them killed at the Red Wedding?   They had recently fought Stanis and would have been somewhat depleted from that fight it seemed their numbers held up for show plot reasons more than anything.  It would have been better if Ramsey thought the Vale army was coming to re-enforce him than to have an Army that never seems to run out of troops.

As I strongly recall, last season, Sansa told Jon (and Davos, I think) that she heard (while she was at Winterfell with Ramsay) that he had 5,000 men.  Pretty sure Jon's men were around 2,000 to 3,000.

And Ramsay plainly had plenty of archers. Remember how those arrows were flying at the Battle of the Bastards?  Hundreds and hundreds of arrows in the air at the same time.

Yeah, Wun Wun knocked down the door, but that was with NO resistance whatsoever.  Wun Wun just ran up to the door, battered it down, and as far as I know he took NO damage before he was already inside Winterfell, at which time a few flurries of arrows took him down pretty quickly.

Of course, it's easy for me to come up with other things Ramsay could have done, too, such as fortifying the gate further, with a variety of possible means.

In my opinion, both sides blundered pretty badly, and in the end Ramsay's blunders were worse, so, like I said, Ramsay lost the battle a lot more than Jon won it.

On 7/26/2017 at 11:02 PM, no_one_... said:

This hit's a bit of a nerve w/me indirectly.  

The Wildlings had a "Giant" siege engine walking talking potential artillery all in one.  They just forgot to arm him or give him any armor because if they had that entire battle plan of Ramsey would have went to crap w/the Giant using a tree as a flaming Bo Staff if nothing else to smash the shield wall.  Which they basically already showed  a Giant using during Hardhome.   Any type of scaled armor/decent shield and those arrows would have been pin pricks at best, but they wanted/needed to kill him off.  He could have spent the night make iceballs to chuck and he would have been more effect in that battle on the field.

In your scenario, it's Winter they could have melted snow and made a shield out of ice even for him and use that for cover as he breaks the gate,  assuming they didn't want to take the time to make a full length shield out of trees as planks for him.  But, why break the gate when he could chuck things over the gate to let others scale walls/take out archers.  Really, he was the most underutilized/under-protected resource in that entire battle purely for plot reasons.

Yes, I agree with nearly everything you wrote (only thing I would question is the practicality of making a shield for him out of ice, but it would be easy enough to make one out of wood, for sure)

You make many great points.  Last year, I believe, there was an entire topic thread devoted to ways that Wun Wun could have been used MUCH better than he was, and there were LOTS of great ideas.  (I think one of my favorites, in terms of creativity, was just making giant metal shoes for him, and letting him stomp on enemies.  Yes, that would have been devastating.  There were many suggestions related to armor and weapons, lots of which would have been easy and quick to make, especially with so much man-power available to do it)

Having said all that...I still think Ramsay could have easily defended Winterfell if he had done what I said, even if Wun Wun was used to his maximum potential, and even including the Knights of the Vale (as I mentioned above, the KotV are cavalry which means...useless in assaulting a fortified castle, but devastating in the open field against infantry, as they were actually used b/c Ramsay was extremely foolish and let the safety of Winterfell)

Realistically, the only way I could see Jon winning if Ramsay had holed up in Winterfell (with Jon being as lightly armored and undermanned as he was, and with no real siege weapons, ladders, scaling towers, catapults, trebuchets, et cetera), would be a sneak attack, say, with Jon and a few men sneaking in through some passage or entry that only someone who grew up in Winterfell would know about, then they open the gates, and Jon's army pours in during the middle of the night.

In fact, that's what I THOUGHT was going to happen.  But nope.  The "big plan" was simply...full frontal assault in broad daylight, even though Jon's forces were terribly outmanned.  At the risk of repeating myself, I'm not even sure WHAT Jon's plan would have been if Ramsay had holed up in Winterfell.  A sustained siege was NOT an option, they had NO significant food or food supplies on the way, so far as I know.

Bottom line, in my opinion:  Ramsay LOST the Battle of the Bastards a LOT more than Jon WON it, especially given the fact that despite Ramsay's foolishness, Jon STILL would have lost if the KotV had not shown up to save the day.

But hey, the episode WAS a lot of fun to watch, so I enjoyed it anyway.

On 7/24/2017 at 3:46 AM, dmc515 said:

Aye that's fair.  But by the same token, this is the problem that is playing out (much more deliberately and realistically) in the books.  Ramsay can't just sit in Winterfell with unsure allies.  He must prove his strength - and eradicate any threats.  Again, that's partly (although certainly not all) why Roose sends men out at the end ADWD.

Well, I understand we're both just bouncing ideas around, and that's cool, but...

...there's a reason they used to build castles.  With huge stone walls.  And monstrous drawbridges, doors, moats, battlements, and places and ways for archers to stand up on top and pick off the poor suckers down below all day and all night.

Look how effectively the Night's Watch defended the Wall against a much larger attacking force (even though it was till only a small portion of Mance's army).  If Jon and the NW had gone out and fought the wildlings and giants in the open, they would not have lasted 10 minutes.

I don't claim to be a super expert on medieval style warfare, but I know this:  If you have a choice between defending Winterfell or attacking with a force that has NO siege weapons and NO food supply for a siege, take the defense 10 out of 10 times.  And don't go out in the field, cuz you will be giving up a HUGE advantage in exchange for nothing.

All Ramsay had to do was line the battlements with archers, then mass the rest of his troops near the gate(s) to defend the relatively narrow opening, and even that assumes Wun Wun would have been able to smash it down with about 500 arrows in his body, maybe even 1,000.

Even the Knights of the Vale would have been basically useless.  Uhh..cavalry?  To attack a castle?  No.

But do you know what cavalry ARE really good for?  Annihilating infantry in the open field, which is exactly what they did to Ramsay's forces.

3 minutes ago, Nymeria Stone said:

The episode wasn't bad, minus the last part.

I really don't see why so many people think Euron is awesome. The way I see it, he is just the average bad boy with a leather jacket and poorly written lines. And as many people have pointed out: how did the two largest fleets in Westeros just bumped into one another without no one realizing?

Also, why don't Sansa and Jon do their dirty laundry in private?? Once again they are arguing and contradicting each other in front of all their allies, which is something so dumb I cannot even put into words.

I do agree that the Missandei and Grey Worm scene wasn't very good either. Took a bit too long, the sex was awkward and I don't see how being called "weakness" is romantic in any way. However, it's a bit cruel to mock it the way many are doing here.

Regarding Jon and Sansa, well, Sansa keeps publicly going against him, even though Jon told her last week not to, so ultimately it's on her.

A case can be made that things would go more smoothly if he told her in advance what he was going to do, so they could talk it out BEFORE they get in public, but ultimately...he's the king, and she's not.

1 minute ago, dmc515 said:

To be fair, this was clearly set up by Ramsay killing Rickon - and Sansa warning Jon that Ramsay would do something to make him make a mistake....but yeah.

Well, I hear what you're saying, but in my opinion Ramsay was an utter fool to leave Winterfell AT ALL, the way he did.

Let's say Ramsay had stayed holed up in Winterfell.  What was Jon's plan?  I'm not aware of anything.  Try to get close and make siege weapons before Ramsay's archers annihilated all of Jon's forces?   Dunno.