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dsjj251

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  1. My personal theory has always been that Orys is actually the son of Valaena , not Aerion. We get one line of "confirmation" that its Aerion from Jaehaerys, thats it. It also explains the Baratheon name.
  2. The zenith of Durrandon rule was 300 years. The same as the zenith of what we describe as the HRE was about 370 years. I dont necessarily agree with the 8000 year history number, but that doesnt actually have anything to do with the simple fact that the Stormlands were the single largest kingdom that was then broken up in to several minor kingdoms .
  3. Not sure what you are even claiming here. The Stormlands was at one time,the largest of the Seven Kingdoms, ruling from the Neck to the Red Mountains , from the Bay of Crabs to the Golden Tooth. They were then nibbled at both internally and externally. Not sure how you can say that is the Oldtown ot the Citadal, LOL I actually meant to put Venice/Florence here as they were the Banking Center and a Republic that used its forces to not only protect its own boundaries but to put down wars between its neighbors. Volantis is the successor state to Valyria(Rome), its the Eastern Romen Empire, aka Constantinople. Braavos never colonized or expanded, Pentos did just like Venice.
  4. Westeros - North = Scotland Riverlands = Ireland Westerlands = England Reach = France Dorne = Spain Iron Islands = Vikings(or at least what we think of them as) Vale = Switzerland Stormlands = Holy Roman Empire(at one time, containing the crownlands, riverlands, parts of Dorne, Reach, Vale and Westerlands) Crownlands = Confederation of the Rhine Essos Narrow Sea Braavos = Amsterdam Tyrosh = Lisbon Volantis = Constantinople Qohor = ?????? Pentos = Venice Norvos = Budapest Lorath = Copenhagen Lys = Marseille Myr = Florence
  5. But he wasnt replacing anyone or continuing a line, he was in fact starting his own, so it isnt comparable.
  6. Neither the "Coming of the Andals" or the War across the Water lasted more than 100ish years. As I said before, TWOIAF says the invasion of the North and Vale happened at the same time. And Yes, the Andal invasion does indeed involve the relocation of the Andal population, as Andalos became part of the Freehold's colonies. No, it really doesnt, because you also get the successive action of the founding of the Free cities these 2 threads will help, or make it worse, LOL
  7. Not a contradiction at all seeing as I stated no war lasted 1,000 years. My overall point being that all of this happened in a relatively short amount of time, 50 to 100 years or so). I have however argued in the context of the other person I was debating with. i.e. If you believe this one fact, ill concede it to show you the bigger flow. Also, the Andals were still in Andalos until at least 1,836
  8. TWOIAF doesnt say what you claim, and the Wiki specifically splits these events because of that.Again, there are whole threads on this. I already pointed this out. You are assuming they all took place at the same time, but there is no confirmation of that, infact, it seems the opposite. Mathos is only listed as the king the Sistermen knelt to, that could have been on year 1 of this war, or year 1,999, but based on how its worded, Mathos would have had to have had control of the Sisters to claim/rule it, no different than the other wars talked about. So its safe to say Mathos comes at the end, not the beginning. No we arent. Erich's grandson succeeded him as king ,which means he was alive when the Andals invaded the Vale. Since we are told they also took Massey's hook and didnt hold it long. Thats 4 kings and 5 generations in less than 30 years. Then you only have 3 more kings before assimilation. How many kings before the manderlys left is irrelevant to when the Andals invaded. Only when White Harbor existed. No, you are assuming long reigns. I already explained why you are wrong here, if you disagree state why, but dont just keep repeating it without listing an explanation for why you disagree. We know the expansion and contraction of each kingdom after the invasion. So we can make some educated guesses here. So yes, it matters, because it also dates Perceon, it dates the iron islands, and riverlands. So by your own standard, it changes the timeline to be something like 600 years away from when you need it to be to make your argument work. Except, no one here thinks the Teagues ruled that long, not even you, especially since all of the Teague Kings were the First of their names. Of everyone you named, they have the shortest section in the book, even the Andal petty kings got more information listed.
  9. I had a giant long thought out reply, but my computer crashed and its gone, so excuse this shorter reply. No one person is more credible than the other, its the collection of evidence im looking at. Im fine with anything from 1,300 to 900 years ago, all of that makes sense. The problem with your argument is that the length of time a King reigns is different for each king, You are assuming these kings are in order or even that they reigned long. Also, the time when the Manderlys moved north is irrelevant to when the Andals came. in and of itself. It clearly happened after the conquest. What you are actually looking for is the time between Garth VII and Garth IX. The Rape of the Three Sisters The War Across The Waters Theon Stark's Conquest of the Three Sisters. Could all be three separate events. Or at least 2 different point within the larger War Across the Waters. Only the Rape of the 3 sisters is listed as 2,000 years ago, and that is when the Sisters were independent(No House Arryn ), Theon Stark isnt listed as having been apart of that either. In the context of the War, we are only told of its conclusion, which is Mathos II is asked to add the Sisters to his domain and rid it of Stark rule. Because it doesnt make sense. Again, we have a direct timeline for the Vale to the Riverlands, and we can even argue we have a direct timeline of rule from the fall of House Mudd to today. Its roughly 1170 Years. House Hoare 2 BC to roughly 77 BC ( Harwyn Hoare died at 64 and spent "half" his reign in the riverlands, so half his life, 32, would be the max since he died in 45 B.C., and we know his son died in 42, so there is only a 3 year gap from 45-42 and then grandson from 42 to 2 BC. House Durrandon 77 to 377 BC We are told they rule the Riverlands for 300 years. House Teague 377 -??? 9 Teague Kings are mentioned. 5 are crowned or died in the Battle of 6 kings. the other 4 are. Torrance Teague, the founder. 2 unnamed successor kings who are listed as the 2nd and 3rd Teague Kings. Theo Teague, Saddle-Sore , who is listed as the 4th Teague King. All First of their name House Justman "Near" 300 years. Infighting among Andal petty Kings for " Near a century" Andals invade so 1177 years accounted for, when assuming "near" is rounded up. The only way you get to 2000 years, is to have the Teagues rule the Riverlands for 833 years. Which isnt even close to likely. No, we are specifically told there are multiple "Ice" and that the VS one is named after the others, where as we are also specifically told that the Brightroar used by Lancel IV is indeed VS and we are even given the date he wielded it. So we have approximate dates. Note perfect, but it isnt too vague either. Consolidation of the Kingdoms of the Rock, Trident and Reach pretty much show it cant be 2000 years ago.
  10. No, there isnt. Cool, but the Maesters have been wrong. There are entire threads about that, further more, As I already stated, if we can get multiple thousand year increments and inbetween, its reasonable to assume the founding of Riverrun if correct. Andalization didnt take long. The grandson of the first sage king was born into the faith. We are talking 30 years tops. Im fine with that assumption, but not that it somehow took 500+ years. Again, Generations = lineage, not a set number of years. Some of these kings you listed succeeded their grandfathers and great grandfathers. Entire generations get skipped in ruling. So generations can literally mean 1 year in come cases. Gyles III fought Lancel IV Lannister. Lancel IV Lannister used Brightroar to behead a Hoare hereditary King of the Iron Island. The Lannisters only had Brightroar for about 100 or 200 years before the doom(Doom was 102 BC), so 502 to 602 years ago. So Now we are faced with wondering if the Kings are in order or discussed by importance,or if the writers of TWOIAF just screwed up, because if Perceon comes after that, that puts the founding of White Harbor no earlier than 601, 300 years before the earliest previous estimate. Again, you are using "generations" to justify your argument, but it doesnt. Especially with that Gyles II reign being the first one mentioned after the Sage Kings.
  11. Except, we are given time frames of "2,000 years ago" "3,000 years ago" and "300 years ago", "400 years ago" as references of time as well, we even get a couple of "1,500 Years ago " so you cant really say that means "a long time ago" instead of literally 1,000 years ago. Again, The Wiki attached to this forum has timelines that shows the flaw here. The Stormlands where conquered before the The Reach. There is no line in any of the books that says as man as 20 kings (or more) could have ruled. It says generations, but generations could mean 2 or 50, And generations are about linage, not time. Robb Eddard and Rickard are 3 generations,(will touch on this later) So No, it wasnt centuries later after the conquest of the Riverlands, which itself didnt take all that long. To add to this TWOIAF says the conquest of the Stormlands was happening as the Vale was first being attacked. See, clearly, they can date in multiple thousand year increments, so either the founding of Riverrun is wrong, or the Maesters are. Im going with the Maesters. The Wiki puts the Manderlys move north at 900 years ago to 1,300, with quotes from the book, same with Riverun. Im not guessing 1000 years ago, it says 1000 years ago for Riverrun or 900/1,300 for White Harbor, thats the quotes from the books. There was no 600 year Migration/invasion, that is indeed an over exaggeration. If you look at the Wiki, the time between Robb Starks birth and his 3rd great grandfather death is only 62 years, And those Starks werent even at war. The Andals who invaded Westeros likely had shorter lives being at war and So to claim it took 500 to 600 years is absurd.
  12. Again, we are never told that valyrian steel in and of itself is precious, only that it cant be made anymore. There is no reason to believe it was so expensive that others houses couldnt afford it when still being made.
  13. Again, by that logic, House Lannister could have just taken a sword from which ever house p/o'ed them, they didnt.
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