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dsjj251

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About dsjj251

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  1. dsjj251

    Renly winning would have been a disaster.

    Thats not even close to true since atleast 5 Targaryen kings picked multiple heirs after their first born sons died. Maegor was by definition a usurper, again his claim to Aerea was never my point, it was Jaeherys, Why are you pretending you dont understand ? You are talking yourself into circles here trying to avoid my point , LOL Not moot at all. If the line is as concrete as you claim, then there should be no debate, thats your entire point. And yes, I asked all of them. I have named at least 4 already. 6 of the 9 regions recognized her as Queen. She was queen. GRRM states his characters are biased and are wrong a lot. His own fictional histories stating that positive accounts of some characters were wiped from history by later monarchs for some reason or another, Rhaenyra being one of the key figures that happened to. Multple groups also being against women in power. so. legitimate heir, controlled majority of the kingdom, ruled dragonstone. Your Stannis quote is laughable. It was never Aegon's crown. so she is no usurper or traitor.
  2. dsjj251

    How powerful are the Royces?

    Dude, you are trolling at this point.
  3. dsjj251

    How powerful are the Royces?

    Rodrik says he took the castle to protect it and it's lands . So he took the lands by taking the castle . I believe that is Bran 2 in a flash of Kings , not 100% on that one . Again in Davos 2 , it says they are fleeing the bastard of Bolton and not only that, it says Wyman best answer his new liege Lord by sending troops. You clearly read this passage since your previous quote only stops 2 sentences away from that line.
  4. dsjj251

    Renly winning would have been a disaster.

    1.The King choosing to abide by a council he called is his pick. 2. My mistake on Aerea age. Still, her mother chose her own brother over her child. Aerea had no on to press her claim, but Rogar was willing to later on. And there was the fact that Meagor wasn't liked and was deemed a usurper by Jaehaerys' Court , so who he picked didn't matter . My point there was that Jaehaerys' then named her his heir even though technically Rhaeyna had the best claim even over Jaeherys in some eyes. Everyone was fine with it either way . His daughter then replaced her, and his 2 sons after that . 3. It was successful every time except one , but even that was a success as history sees the blacks as the victors. 4.Rhaenyera sat the iron throne and ruled all or most of 6 of the 9 regions . Again she was more Queen than Aegon ever was King. 5. he didn't because he needed Tywin
  5. dsjj251

    How powerful are the Royces?

    1. Nope . Same argument , you are just playing coy. "Still fighting " means nothing . Manderly had control of the castle and it's lands . Does Rodrik not say that ? 2. Manderly gave up control when Roose was named Warden, Making Bolton his liege Lord . Manderly followed commands 3. If you want to say they were losing instead of lost, that's fine. 4.All your arguments about troops assume the Manderlys don't have more men. And that they sent everyone they had to winterfell. 5. Citation - Davos II ADWD. The rest of that page that you seem to pretend doesn't exist lol.
  6. dsjj251

    Renly winning would have been a disaster.

    My argument is fine. Your response is flawed. 1. The King chose to abide by the decision of the council each time , so he chose as he could have easily said no. 2. Aerea's pick wasn't successful because because her own mother didn't support her claim and she was like 10 months old and couldn't support her own claim. 3. Being an heir has to do with right of succession, not the actual act. Plenty of crown princes died before becoming Kings. We're they not heirs ??? Your logic is flawed. 4. Rhaenyra controlled the North, the Vale, Iron Islands , most of the Riverlands and most of the Crownlands and part of the Reach( house Rowen, Tarly and others ). She was more "Queen" than Aegon II ever was "King"
  7. dsjj251

    Renly winning would have been a disaster.

    Again, you are arguing your perspective . 1. All those Kings agreed to abide by their great council , they didn't have to and they chose to allow them to happen. 2. In Fire and Blood Jaeharys names Aerea his heir, then his daughter Daenarys , then his son then Aemon while Dany is still alive . 3. Rhaenyra was betrayed , no one told her father no to his face, negating your point that a King "can't " do it, because he clearly can. It's a matter of follow up.
  8. dsjj251

    How powerful are the Royces?

    1. My point never changed. The Bolton's lost. Ramsey doesn't hold that tower mentioned, he fled remember. And even if he did still hold it, I refer you back to my Riverlands argument which you keep ignoring . Continuing to fight means nothing if you are being slaughtered. 2. When Hornwood people are fleeing to White Harbor and Hornwood men are fighting under Ramsey , it is because Roose has been named Warden and Ramsey legitimized , all of that is in the other half of the Davos II paragraph you quoted earlier from Dance . It's like you are either forgetting context , or purposefully leaving it out. Your quote from Clash of Kings with the original kidnapping and fighting is 2 and a half books back and even there it only mentions Ramsey locking her in a tower. It doesn't say which one or on who's lands it is in. 3. The Boltons lost . it's that simple, just like the Riverlord's lost. One does not need a declaration of surrender to be defined as having lost . 4. I'm not arguing that the people can't ignore an appointment , I'm arguing this based on the way Roose was received ( which he maybe over thrown in the next book).Even Baelish is followed after meeting with the Lord Declarant . You can debate all you want about what " could" happen, but you asked me what I thought , and Roose is a traitor and they are following him now, so..... 5. Roose doesn't have to be in the North to exert force. Clearly they are following his commands from South of the neck already, so why do you keep saying " he isnt in the North yet" as if that matters. Again in the very chapter you quoted , it talks about people answering to both Roose and Ramsey .
  9. dsjj251

    Renly winning would have been a disaster.

    1.You didn't point out a flaw. Your argument is "how much your prospective matters ". I never argues the degree in which my prospective matters . But seeing how large Renly's support is..... 2. King's have successful chosen their own heirs multiple times, or allowed a great council to do it for them . The only time it didn't work was Rhaenyra , and she technically had more support than Aegon II did. ( She had the North, The Vale, Most of the Crownlands and most of the Riverlands) When Jaehery l took the crown, he chose his eldest niece as his heir, not either of his sister's. Jaeherys heir wasn't Aemon's kids, Vaegon, or his own younger daughters . It was the first born son of Baelon . And in the great council of 233, the Crown was given to Egg, even though he had 3 family members ahead of him in the line of succession. 3. Robert can pick his own heir. 4. Robert is dead, he can't be the most powerful Baratheon lol.
  10. dsjj251

    How powerful are the Royces?

    I'm on my phone and it will take forever to do individual quotes so bare with me 1. Your quote only mentions Ramsey capturing Lady Hornwood, and her being found in a tower. Not a second castle . Castles and towers aren't the same thing in the context of Ice and Fire. Only one castle is ever mentioned and it is referred to as Hornwood Castle . And it is indeed held by Lord Manderly at the time. 2. As with my examples in the river lands, Roose/Ramsey's people continuing to fight means nothing . 3. Hornwood or Manderly, it seems everyone follows their liege Lord . Bolton has the backing of King Tommen and the Lannister forces . That was my point; again your own quote actually ends on that line , but you only quoted half the paragraph from Davos II. 4. Your point wasn't really igored, I just genuinely didn't understand what you were trying to say. It's obvious most of the North hates Lannisters , but Roose isn't one and helped kill many of them and they still follow him, so the answer is we don't know, but if they follow Roose, it doesn't seem to far out the way for them to follow Lancel. Is that what you were looking for ?
  11. dsjj251

    Renly winning would have been a disaster.

    You didnt point out a flaw, you are arguing from a different perspective . Thats not the same thing. Thats like me saying my favorite color is blue and you saying " it should be yellow". We arent debating the legal line of succession. The legal line of succession is clear. Joffery > Tommen >Stannis> Renly My post is basically why people even chose to follow who they did in the first place. Clearly there was a thought process for those who chose Renly. Im simply stating why. Lord of Storms End, most powerful Baratheon. You responded to me, it has to do with my original argument which is why individuals chose to support who they did. Joffery, with the best legal claim, had little support outside his own mothers house.
  12. dsjj251

    How powerful are the Royces?

    Lot to unpack here. Only one castle is ever mentioned. Again, I think you are conflating the separate chapters which mention multiple actions, but they are all talking about the same castle. Further more, there still being fighting does not mean no one has the upperhand. thats like claiming the riverlords werent losing to Tywin/Jamie because they were "still fighting". We dont know the exact moment he starts following him, but it does happen. That isnt in dispute. And while Warden is indeed "just a title", the Manderlys respect it(at least in public) . And when Roose is named so, they follow his commands. Ugh. Your above quote is from Clash of Kings I believe. Roose is not Warden at that time, he has no authority over Wyman or any of the other Northern Lords for that matter at that point. The war raged on because even with Ramsey dead, his bastard lands would still belong to his House.
  13. dsjj251

    Renly winning would have been a disaster.

    Im not making a legal argument here man, LOL This is purely about status. Holding Storm's End is better than holding Dragonstone, which is far better than simply being a crown prince in the eyes of all the lords in the Stormlands and Reach. Joffery's only supporters were the Houses of the Westerlands and maybe a few crownlanders.
  14. dsjj251

    Renly winning would have been a disaster.

    Prince of Dragonstone is a title of the heir to House Targaryen, not Baratheon.
  15. dsjj251

    Renly winning would have been a disaster.

    Kings choose their own heirs. And Robert never truly named one. Thats Renly's loophole. He holds Storms End, making him the highest ranking Baratheon either way.
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