WhatAnArtist!

6 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

I also am more worried about fan discourse than the critical reviews. The critics I believe will largely judge Winds on its own merits. It's parts of the fandom who start acting in obnoxious ways on occasion that I am not especially looking forward to. Though as fandoms go, ASOIAF fans are pretty laid back.

In my experience, it's critics that are the ones that will trash something based on its ideological/political undertones, not the regular fans. 

On 11/25/2021 at 4:50 AM, Rondo said:

Ben's prospects were few.  Is Ned okay with having to support his brother beneath his roof?  Ned Stark is not rich like Walder Frey.  Supporting Ben would tax his household.  Ben would have kids eventually and they too will be extra mouths to feed.  

Ned Stark is like.... the last lord that would ever kick out family from his home so long as he was there. 

1 hour ago, Thandros said:

This would leave the Westerlands in the hands of women, distant cousins or Freys if Tywin and Kevan die.

Assuming that in this timeline Ser Stafford Lannister still dies at Oxcross, that still leaves Ser Devan Lannister to take command in the westerlands. Since he was later made the Warden of the West by Cersei in Feast, it's not far-fetched to imagine that he'd be an acceptable choice to take charge of the westerlands should there be no other Lannisters available. He seemed to do a decent enough job in Feast (though granted at that time the war was all but over). 

25 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

But since she's LSH now (not exactly sane fueled by revenge) and the BwB aren't exactly going to be taken at their word, do the general public or at least nobility know?

I think this is what @WhatAnArtist! means, correct me if i'm wrong

Yeah that's what I meant. Obviously the Freys get plenty of hate for their involvement in the Red Wedding, and even the Lannisters to a lesser extent, but I was curious about how the Boltons are viewed, and if it's common knowledge that Roose was involved with it. That'd severely hurt his chances of pacifying the North, if that's the case.

5 hours ago, EggBlue said:

Quentyn was terrible in bringing Dany the marriage proposal. since he had only two knights with him there was no presentation of Dorne's power and since Q was awkward there was no way of some good seduction or persuasion

I just reread the chapter where Dany rejects him, and I really felt bad for Quentyn. I could relate to him somewhat. The fact that Dany even thought how much hotter one of his companions was, and that she wishes he was the prince instead, was both hilarious and pitiable. 

10 minutes ago, SeanF said:

She ought to have burned Yunkai to the ground

I don't know if this would have helped much, since Astapor rose up again after she left. What she needed to was conquer it - take the city, kill or expel the slavers, station some Unsullied and sellswords in the city, and add it to her little empire in Slaver's Bay. If all three cities were controlled by her and her soldiers, she'd be in a much better situation. Dany's problem was that she didn't fully commit - she needed to embrace being a Targaryen and emulate Aegon by conquering enough to make her too powerful to dislodge. Simply taking Meereen wasn't enough, she needed all three cities if she wanted to be self-sustaining.

With my current reread of Dance, I'll put forward the suggestion of Dany's "plan" to rule Meereen, which seems to boil down to "If I'm a really nice person maybe they'll just leave me alone". She receives good advice from several people around her - Barristan urges her to send the army out to fight their enemies in the field because they don't have the food to survive a siege, Daario urges her to massacre the slaver families after luring them in so she has no enemies inside the city, Skahaz urges her not to marry Hizdahr because he is almost certainly one of the Sons of the Harpy; a few people urge her to unleash her dragons on her enemies like a true Targaryen would have, since they're her best tool; even King Cleon urges her to join with him to help take down Yunkai, their common foe who has been plotting against them the whole time.

She ignores all of it, because it would violate her plan on being "a really nice person" and just sitting in her Pyramid and sort of.... hoping it all just goes away...? I don't even know if it can be called a plan. She rejects every single proposed plan that could have put her in a better situation, and her own "plan" seems to be to throw away every possible advantage she has and instead severely expose herself and her people to danger from all sides because she wasn't willing to make the hard choices. Being all nice and diplomatic and patient might work if you're in the shoes of someone like Doran Martell or Rodrik Harlaw, but it doesn't work when you're surrounded by enemies in the most hostile place in the known world as Slaver's Bay is.

Does anyone know that it was Roose Bolton that killed Robb Stark? I know Martin described him as wearing his armour when he did it, but does that mean he was wearing a helmet too, to obscure his face? 

On 11/7/2021 at 9:15 AM, bigdickbaj said:

and Jaime will tell her that Arya is in Winterfell

But Jaime knows that the "Arya" in Winterfell isn't the real Arya. Or do you mean that he'd intentionally mislead Stoneheart?

On 11/7/2021 at 9:15 AM, bigdickbaj said:

Then Jaime and others will be sent to range over the wall and he will stumble onto Bran over the wall and either die protecting him or bring him back.

I don't think the Night's Watch ranges as far north as Bran is. Bran and co. are basically in the Land of Always Winter, unmapped territory; that's too far for the Watch to range, who usually limit themselves to the Haunted Forest.

3 minutes ago, Willam Stark said:

Dany can't expect to win only with them, she needs Westerosi support.

I can't see that happening until she beats Aegon. He seems to be better positioned to gathering Westerosi support; he got there first, and he has a better claim. Dany will need to unleash some fire and blood on him first, but that might make her lose potential supporters. An interesting dilemma. 

Frankly, I think Martin went too far in making the Dothraki so primitive. Even their historical inspirations - the nomadic Turks and the Mongols - used shields, armour and sophisticated tactics because of their proximity to more developed civilisations (e.g. China, Persia). That's how they were able to eventually beat them. They took things from their enemies and adapted them into new and innovative variations. The Dothraki adapt nothing and learn nothing. The history buff inside me desperately wants them to cross the Narrow Sea and be effortlessly exterminated in a single battle by a Westerosi army that actually wears armour and uses spears and shields.

36 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Yes but many people who I've seen on the forum hate essos.

You keep saying this but there's no evidence.

36 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Their real life names sound just as strange to me. 

Well that's on you for not being familiar with the types of names in other countries.

2 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

I really don't understand why people hate essos and it's plotlines, especially meereen

This is a strawman. The majority of people do not "hate Essos and its plotlines"; they might prefer the storylines in Westeros, but that doesn't equate to hating the other ones. It's not a binary situation. People can enjoy both, but prefer one. And just because people have criticisms of one, doesn't mean they hate it. 

2 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

They are well developed and created

They're good, but I don't think they're quite on the same level as the best regions of Westeros (i.e. the North, King's Landing).

2 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

All of the meereenese are complex characters.

Perhaps, but again, I don't think they're on the same level as the characters in the most interesting regions of Westeros. 

2 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

I agree that the names sound strange but so do names like Jaime, bran, robb etc

Not similar at all. A lot of the names in Westeros are directly derived from real-world names, some with only very minor alterations (e.g. Jaime instead of Jamie, Jon instead of John), and others are identical (e.g. Robert, Brandon). I don't see how one could consider most Westerosi names "strange" compared to the Essosi/Meereenese ones. To me they're like night and day.

Marry Viserys I (apparently very kind and easy-going)

Bang Viserys II (apparently attractive in his youth, and otherwise a smart and normal guy)

Kill the Beggar King (a psycho)

Warrior Women Edition:

Brienne of Tarth, Dacey Mormont, Asha Greyjoy

I'm also not worried. Reviewers and redditors can critique the series as much as they want for being "problematic", but the true fans of the series don't care about that. All we want is a great story, and Martin has proved time and time again that he is capable of delivering that, however long it takes. The ASoIaF fanbase is actually one of the least toxic and hostile I've ever seen for such a huge property. Most of that is probably due to it being very far removed from any semblance of modern politics, and that's a good thing.

19 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

There's no way Lady Stoneheart is letting Jaime live.

Yep. The idea that Stoneheart would repeat the exact same mistake she made in Clash by releasing Jaime again is hilarious. The entire point of Stoneheart is that she has none of the mercy or empathy of Catelyn, and does not forgive or forget. If Stoneheart captures Jaime and then trusts him again to fulfil some promise in King's Landing, it will be the dumbest thing Martin has ever written. I have more faith in him than that. 

6 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Margaery Tyrell was weeping in her grandmother's arms as the old lady said, "Be brave, be brave." Most of the musicians had fled, but one last flutist in the gallery was blowing a dirge.

 

That's hysterical. The audacity of this guy! Like, the king was just murdered and this flutist has the nerve strum a little funeral tune. Wasn't he scared that's inappropriate? Or is it the most appropriate thing?

Musicians are crazy 

My head-canon says that this musician had secret Stark sympathies, and was doing this as a tiny bit of personal retribution for the Red Wedding.

What happened to the bodies of the dead Targaryens after the Rebellion? Were they given a proper burial? Cremated? I'm sure it's been mentioned in the books, but if so I've forgotten what was said. 

41 minutes ago, Hugor_Hill said:

I am very sorry to report that I completely agree.  It's hard for me to understand how anyone can think he will at this point.  

A lot of people are still - understandably - in the "denial" stage. It'll take a long time before everyone gets to "acceptance".

10 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

You don't think that Jamie and Cersei have unfinished business? I sort of see Cersei as Jamie's Darth Vader. Jamie can't be truly redeemed without confronting Cersei one way or the other. Just ditching out on her and dying in the field in my mind leaves him somewhat untested and as such unredeemed.  He wouldn't be the first character to die with that lack though.

 

I understand the thematic reasons of why there "needs" to be a confrontation between Jaime and Cersei, from a traditional storytelling perspective, but at the same time I feel that if Martin were to end every storyline with the most obvious conclusion because it's what fits thematically, there'd be no surprises left in the story. Catelyn and Robb's storylines ended very abruptly and without any closure; they never even encountered any of the people that wanted to defeat - Cersei, Tywin, Joffrey - and were unceremoniously murdered by a minor character who had only showed up once before. 

I don't expect the storyline to actually end the way I said - I was merely outlining what the most purely realistic and logical way it would end based on the events as they currently are, not what fans predict. But I'm sure that if Jaime was going to be killed by Stoneheart it would have been included at the end of Dance, so.... yeah, I wouldn't worry about that happening, I'm sure he'll go to King's Landing and confront Cersei and it'll either end with him killing her, as every fan predicts, or them dying together, as the show had things happen. I can't say either conclusion particularly interests me, but I'm not the writer so it's not up to me.

If Martin was intent on having a realistic and logical conclusion to Jaime's arc, based on what we've seen on Stoneheart and the aDwD chapter, he'll be brought before Stoneheart, found guilty of his crimes, and hanged from a tree. An extremely bleak and nihilistic ending, to be sure, but it would have a certain poetic feel to it - hanged just as he was starting to truly turn his life around and be a better man, and hanged not for any of the crimes he really did commit, but for the one he actually did not. As much as I truly love Jaime as a character, I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with this ending. It would certainly be more unexpected and impactful than him going back to King's Landing and killing Cersei. Everyone and their cat is predicting this will happen, and it's never seemed particularly interesting or original to me. 

3 hours ago, Bobby B's Hamma said:

George made a post last night with a picture of a hand with multiple fingers and the mood of "busy"... I had my hopes up until I read the tags were "HBO" and "television" 

I would have thought that Martin would have an instinctive aversion to collaborating on projects with HBO after GoT, but apparently not. Very disappointing.

It should be released in whatever format is necessary for the book to actually be released. I don't care how it's released, I just want it to be released. But all of this is pointless theorising, because we don't even know when it will be released. For all we know it could be another five years.

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m also curious about where Brienne is heading. She didn’t do much the last three seasons. This could mean a lot of things: her book plot was cut, she dies in TWOW, she pulls a Theon and disappears for a while, etc.

I think her story will conclude with whatever happens with Stoneheart and the Brotherhood in tWoW. If I had to guess, and I was being optimistic, she'll kill Stoneheart in an attempt to save Jaime at the last minute, and possibly die while doing so. It would be a sad but satisfying end to her character-arc and relationship with Jaime. Worst case scenario, she was really hanged by Stoneheart at the end of Feast and is another resurrected... thing, doing the vengeful bidding of Stoneheart. I really hope that isn't the case, since I love Brienne and don't want her to have such a horrible fate. It would be a final gut punch after her already depressing storyline of Feast.

I don't want Brienne to kill Stannis like the show. That wasn't satisfying in the slightest from either a character or thematic perspective. No one cares about Brienne's desire for """"justice"""" for her murdered husbandfu Renly, a traitor and fool. Brienne's character arc will be completed with Jaime and Catelyn/Stoneheart, not Stannis. Plus, I feel like Brienne's worldview and attitude changed a lot from ACoK to AFfC - in the former, she's entirely obsessed with serving and worshipping Renly, a spoiled, arrogant brat with a huge ego, but by the end of Feast she seems to have realised that the true path of honour wasn't serving a (false) king, but defending the common folk, a far more respectable goal.