James West

Jon is a bastard regardless of how badly some fans would like to fantasize him legitimate.  If he is even Rhaegar's son.  Rhaegar was already married and had children with Princess Elia.  A more interesting, and more desirable to me, is Jon being just a bastard son of Ned Stark.  Not with Ashara but with the fisherman's daughter.  Jon's fuck up at the Wall will have severe negative outcomes.  I don't think he will come back a whole man.  I think he will come back as one of the White Walkers.  

Seeking revenge is bad but if it were only that she will be less of a villain.  It is bad when she killed the old man.  She killed him to pass an exam.  

On 5/1/2023 at 11:53 AM, The Commentator said:

Dany is very, very capable. The magnitude of the social changes needed at Slaver’s Bay is such that nobody else could do half as well as she has. The Masters and their evil objective to bring slavery back are to blame for the problems. 

On 5/1/2023 at 1:37 PM, Craving Peaches said:

I could. I think I could do better to be honest.

Jon is the comparison.  Dany is more able and more capable.  

Failure is possible.  The mission to give the slaves freedom could fail.  But that has not happened yet.  While Jon already failed at the wall.  Jon failed.  Jon failed the Nights Watch and Westeros.  It's in the past and Jon's tragic time at the wall will be written in the history books for future students to study failure.  Dany can still succeed and help the slaves be free.  

On 2/23/2023 at 12:00 AM, Damsel in Distress said:

While it is possible for Rhaegar to have fathered Jon,  it is very unlikely that he is legitimate.  Consider the other possible parents for Jon and he is still lacking legitimacy. 

Ned Stark + Daughter of a Fisherman = bastard Jon

Ned Stark + Ashara Dayne = bastard Jon

Mance Rayder + Lyanna Stark = wildling bastard Jon

Brandon Stark + Lyanna Stark = bastard Jon

Brandon Stark + Ashara Dayne = bastard Jon

Rhaegar + Lyanna = royal bastard Jon

Ned Stark + Wyla = bastard Jon

Arthur Dayne + Lyanna Stark = bastard Jon

Polygamy is not an accepted practice.  Aegon married both his sisters before the conquest began.  While it is possible for Ned to have married Ashara, he later married Catelyn.  This scenario makes Catelyn's children the bastards.  I doubt this is the case.  It is also possible for Brandon to have married Ashara, in which case Jon would be legitimate but then why would Brandon agree to marry Catelyn.  It doesn't make sense.  I can see Brandon doing something idiotic but too many people would have known and objected.  Rhaegar was already married to Princess Ellia of Dorne.  He cannot legally marry Lyanna even if he wanted to.  Rhaegar was not the king and he doesn't have the authority to approve polygamy nor did he have the power to legitimize a bastard.  Arthur Dayne was a member of the Kingsguard.  He could not marry without first giving up the job.  Rhaegar doesn't have the authority to give a Kingsguard permission to marry. 

Robb Stark can't legally make Jon legitimate.  Robb failed to create an independent North.  The North can only be independent from Westeros if the Starks had been successful in their rebellion.  They failed.  The Starks became landless and without a home after the Ironborn took Winterfell.  Robb was lord of nothing.  They formally lost their castle and land when Roose Bolton was made Warden of the North. 

My verdict?  Jon is a bastard

Bastard son of Lyanna and Mance.  

On 5/1/2023 at 12:21 AM, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Jon is clearly the greatest leader humanity has against the Others.

 It was meant as a joke.  Right?  Jon was a terrible lord commander.  Mild-mannered, reasonable Bowen Marsh was pushed to the limits by Jon's incompetence.  

Rickon was losing himself to Shaggydog because the instincts of the animal overpower his feeble reason.  It wasn't madness but the boy going wild.  He sure has a taste for human flesh with garlic by now but that in itself is not crazy to the Skagos people.  It would look insane to normal people though.  

On 4/30/2023 at 5:36 AM, Bowen 747 said:

A lot of people get subjected to prolonged stress and they do not snap.  The slaves in Meereen suffered more than Catelyn and Lysa.  Madness or the predisposition to become insane do run in the Tullys and their children. 

The plight of the Westeros lower class puts them in consistent state of misery and pain.  They cope and live without going mad.  Arya lost it because of this trait she inherited from Cat. Her personality too is tense and reacts strongly to stress.  

Jon Snow's parents both have dark hair.  Lyanna + Mance = Jon.  The closest alternative are Lyanna and Brandon = Jon.  

Bailor's hair was such because he was part Targaryen.  Darkstar, not Jon Snow, is the Haff-Targ.

On 4/6/2023 at 4:17 PM, The Commentator said:

Arya might be young but her crimes are many times worse than most adults in her world. 

true

On 4/16/2023 at 5:01 AM, Aline de Gavrillac said:

House Stark has a bad reputation in the South.  They are known for treason and rebellion.  Eddard confessed to treason and the people reacted with hostility.  The public may not have liked their mercurial King Joffrey but they also condemn treason.  We the readers are privileged to know the reason why Eddard tried to take control of the kingdom away from Cersei and Joffrey.  But the commoners and the nobility are not.  They only know what they heard and what they witnessed.   It is also very much in doubt whether the Starks will be able to prove that Joffrey was not a Baratheon and thus was not the legal heir.  Catelyn Stark is known as the Lady who drew the lion into battle when she ordered the arrest of Tyrion.  She also murdered an innocent boy at the Red Wedding.  Sansa is forever tainted as an accomplice to King Joffrey's murder.   The Starks will never be able to prove that Jaime Lannister had tried to kill Bran.  

There are only two people alive who can salvage *some* of the Stark reputation and honor.  Jaime and Cersei Lannister.  Cersei has not done so for understandable if not selfish reasons.  Jaime has had many opportunities to help salvage the Starks' public image and reputation but he has not done it.  Will Jaime confess the needed information to redeem the Starks?

*Some of the reputation can be salvaged.  Perhaps Eddard was right to displace Cersei and Joffrey.  Jaime tried to kill Bran Stark and that was an insult to guest rights.  Let me repeat, Jaime broke guest rights.  Sansa knew nothing about the assassination of Joffrey until it happened.  But the fact that Robb rebelled and Jon broke his vows at the Wall, those are not redeemable. * 

Jon Snow and Bran Stark are never going to be accepted by the remaining people.  But there is hope for Rickon Stark.  The battle of ice will lead to the demise of Stannis and Roose.  Both sides will be weakened.  The Wildlings will bring in more of their own from the other side of the wall and take control of the north.  The Skagosi might get involved in this conflict.  The North will become very, very primitive and that is just the venue for savages like Rickon Cannibal, Jon Wight, Bran Tree, and Arya Faceless to survive in.  

The negative public image of House Stark is not undeserved.  And the words coming out of Jaime Lannister has the same value as the contents of his chamber pot.  In other words, the public opinion of the Starks south of the Neck will remain negative.  But those things do not matter to the Wildlings and the Skagosi cannibals who will come to dominate the North.  

On 4/4/2023 at 4:05 AM, Craving Peaches said:

No he didn't.

Yes he did.  Robb did not consider the source of his authority.  Robb lacked the intelligence and the discipline to handle even that power.  The source of his authority was coming from the support of the lesser lords below him.  Robb failed his try to become king and he was too ignorant to realize where his authority was coming from.  He let power get to his mind and he was careless with it because he thought it was always going to be there.  Robb let himself believe he was truly a king with more power and authority than reality proved.

On 2/4/2023 at 10:49 PM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

Some talk farther down the forum are trashing the loyal steward of the Nights Watch, Bowen Marsh.  The attacks are not fair.  Marsh was not an ambitious man.  He was not looking for political advancement or personal material gain.  He and his Brothers assassinated Lord Commander Jon Snow because they had a duty to.  Jon Snow put them all in danger.  They needed to end his disastrous leadership before more damage is done. 

I found this very interesting debate on Reddit.  I like what the user Feldman had to say.

 

 

 

The discussion has meandered from the main topic.  Jon got the Night's Watch involved in a conflict with the Boltons over Arya.  It was illegal to do it.  Jon was going to attack the Boltons.  Those are the reasons why Bowen Marsh cancelled Jon Snow.  

8 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Listen, everyone and their aunts already know this type of stupid and shallow comment is all you lot ever do. But since we have to read this shite several times a day everyday, can't you at least be a little more creative? Or perhaps somewhat witty? Because as it is, these comments are not only moronic, but they're repetitive and boring ag. *YAWN*

'have to read" 

Is anyone forcing you to read my post?  No. You chose to read.  If you don't like an opinion you are free to ignore it.  You are not being forced to read opinions you don't like.  Your insults and complaints are not going to stop people from expressing their opinions.  

A sword without a hilt is a blade that can cut the wielder.  Magic is one example, sure.  But people are as well.  Robert Strong is a weapon that can cut Cersei and Qyburn.  Arya is a weapon that has already cut the Faceless Men because she's too wild to handle.  Power cut down Robb Stark.  He let the allure of kingship get in his head but that power, a power he lacked adequate discipline to wield, cut his head.  

Arya Stark is not going to stop killing until she dies or she murders everyone on her list.  Then she will kill people who cross her in some fashion.  She will become more wicked than the people on her list.  

I was reading those chapters at Harrenhal to get more information on Roose and he was the star of those chapters.  I have never found Arya herself interesting.  But Roose made things mysterious.  He was weird.   

Arya has an unusual look.  The face of the north.  The long head shape is what earned her the nickname "horseface."  It is almost impossible for Roose Bolton to fail to recognize her strange appearance because it is out of place in the heart of the river lands.  So it begs the question why he didn't take her prisoner and gift her to Lord Walder Frey.  I might believe Roose was not thinking clearly due to excess blood loss and he thought she was an orphan who was displaced by the Stark Rebellion.  

On 2/16/2023 at 10:40 PM, The Gizzard of Oz said:

Robb Stark's worst sin is not the murder of Rickard Karstark.  It was his betrayal of House Frey.  He broke his oath to the Freys because he wanted Jeyne Westerling.  He followed the calling of his heart instead of doing what he had sworn to do.  This is far from a minor sin.  Robb broke what is the equivalent of a contract and the other party is entitled to compensation.  The cheated party is also entitled to inflict Robb with punitive damages. 

https://slate.com/business/2013/06/game-of-thrones-economics-red-wedding-robb-stark-and-breach-of-trust-in-marriage-alliances.html

 

Robb Stark was the stronger party and punishing him was beyond the capabilities of the Freys.  An ambush like the red wedding was the only means the Freys had to punish Robb.  It was also the price requested by Lord Tywin before he allows the rebel lords Walder and Roose to win their way back to peace with King Joffrey.  Seen from this view, what Walder decided is perfectly understandable.  Roose had his own reason and even they can be justified. 

The Starks put the Freys in a very difficult situation.  I can understand Walder wanting to avoid getting the same thing the Goodbrooks got from Hoster Tully.  The Freys were forced to pick a side.  They honored the pact with the Starks.  The Starks did not. 

On 2/28/2023 at 5:04 PM, Bowen 747 said:

 

They were in the middle of the forty ruling families of the freehold.  While not at the top they were far from the bottom.  Even the lowest ranking of the forty families of Valyria is far greater than the strongest of Westerosi families. 

Far greater.  And the Targaryens are the rightful rulers of all because they are the descendants of the Empresses and Emperors of the Great Empire Of The Dawn.  

On 3/22/2023 at 3:34 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

A lot of talk on the appropriate punishment for Arya Stark for the crimes of foul murder.  Specifically, the murders of Dareon and the Insurance Underwriter.  She is guilty of many more murders but some are claiming those others acts of self-defense.  The old witch saw many more murders in Arya's short future but we can only judge and sentence for crimes already committed.  There is no justice in punishing somebody for what they might do or what they are predicted to do.  And this is about justice. 

Arya has no objections to handing the dead.  A fair punishment for crimes already committed is a life time of servitude to the Silent Sisters.  There obviously has to be a method to keep Arya from running away.  And we can further speculate on how that might be accomplished.  Perhaps a magic binder that will keep Arya bound to the Silent sisters or something of the like. 

This is fair in my opinion.  At least she is given a chance for redemption even though she feels no guilt. 

Comment below and let me know if you consider this too light of a sentence.  Too light or just right? 

Just right if her only crimes are what she has done so far.  Much too light if she continues to murder.  I am predicting Arya will commit the mass murder of King's Landing to get to her enemies.  There is no punishment stiff enough for that level of crime against life.  

The most evil of the families, and I think the series will slowly reveal them, are the Stark family.  Not only because of the millions they have sacrificed to their trees for thousands of years but of what Theon Stark (brutality), Robb (rebellion), Rickard (he was planning to take power from the Targaryens), Jon Snow (betray the watch), Arya (mass murderer) have done.  Ned and Catelny's kids are skinchangers.  Bran ate rotten flesh through his wolf and he is the Dark Prince.  It was Catelyn who provoked the Lannisters.  (Yes, Jaime tried to kill Bran.  Jaime is an evil thing.  But that does not give Catelyn the right to arrest Tyrion.)   

Most objections to Randyll are coming from people who disapprove of how he pushed Samwell to the Night's Watch.  It was harsh but also necessary because Samwell would have made for an incompetent leader for the people he will inherit from his father.  Randyll was mostly serving the interests of the people of his land.  Partially also because of his own vanity and his inflated sense of family glory.  He deserves some grief but not too much.  Too much pride is a trait shared by Lannisters, Starks, and others as well.

We do no know if he will take the side of Aegon the Blackfyre.  Randyll and the Tyrells are getting their breads buttered by the Lannisters.  Aegon has nothing of comparable value to offer at the moment.  The legitimate monarch and ruler of Westeros is Daenerys Targaryen.  Randyll would be foolish to oppose her.  Randyll is deserving of fatal karma if he were to be so foolish as to oppose a real Targaryen whose identity is proven by her dragons.  

Sansa is a pawn but even a pawn can murder a helpless child.  

On 2/20/2023 at 9:44 PM, Quoth the raven, said:

Bringing that awful show into the discussion does not really prove a point.  But fine, let us continue.  The situations are different.  Queen Daenerys is the ruler of the city.  She is Khaleesi, Azor Ahai, rightful Queen of Westeros, a Targaryen, and Mother of Dragons.  She has authority and privileges which Robb Stark does not have.  Daenerys rescued the slaves from a situation worse than death.  His life belonged to her.  Karstark's did not belong to Robb. 

This is a question of judgment more than authority.  Daenerys could afford the displeasure of the slaves.  Robb Stark could not afford to piss off the Karstarks.  Daenerys is more shrewd, more calculating, more intelligent.  Robb might be better on the battle field but Daenerys is the better ruler. 

That scene was created by the fertile minds of HBO.  It is irrelevant to the novels.  

Robb broke an oath to the Freys, the Freys get angry, Tywin makes an offer in return for service, the Freys delivered.  And probably delivered Robb's tarred head to the Red Keep.  

On 2/16/2023 at 2:48 PM, Craving Peaches said:

Why was he such a pathetic coward?

It can't just be due to his lifestyle, because Daenerys was subject to exactly the same lifestyle (from a younger age as well) and is quite brave, and nowhere near as pathetic. Could it be the loss of his privileged position? Was he just innately pathetic and cowardly? He only ever picks on those weaker than himself, he abuses perhaps the only person who loved him and actually cared for him, he threatens his sisters innocent unborn child along with her...this is interestingly one of the few instances were he was showing some sort of bravery, despite his cowardly choice of target, by drawing steel where it was forbidden in a room full of Dothraki...but it all could have just been the drink.

Prince Viserys or King Viserys III has been compared to Rhaegar and their little sister, Princess Daenerys.  It's not fair to him.  In my opinion, Viserys was an average guy.  A true coward would forget the Iron Throne instead of persistently trying to find allies to help him continue the war.  You cannot blame a guy who does not know how to handle a sword for being afraid.  Take Joffrey away from his guards and drop him off in the Free Cities to make it on his own and the boy would have PTSD before too long.  How about Samwell before he joined the Watch.  Dump his considerable bulk in the Free Cities to make it on his own and he would crawl into a ball and waste away.  Viserys was not a coward.  He was weak and afraid because he never got the training to defend himself.  

Hey @Bendric Dayne  you can present a good case for Lord Walder having insecurities leading to vindictiveness.  But I don't think there is anything in the books which would lead most fans to arrive at the conclusion that Lord Walder is an idiot.  An idiot he is not.  Quite the opposite.  The idiot in that part of Westeros was Robb Stark.