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The Hidden Dragon

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  1. I agree 100%. agree with all 3 sentences. I disagree here. It's quite possible that we, the readers, do not know all the information that the Westeros public know. It would be quite the conceit to think otherwise. Just because a topic hasn't been discussed or thought of yet by a POV character(s) doesn't mean they don't know about it. So it's possible that information from the app, which has not been verified by the text of the main series, is actually true. To be fair, given GRRM's writing style of subterfuge and unreliable narrators, even new information from the app may not actually be true but, as you say, may represent what the westeros public believe to be true. We simply don't know yet, and even at the end of books we may not "know" all the answers to the questions and mysteries that GRRM has littered throughout this story. That is an excellent question! The Stark family tree in TWOIAF does show Jon as Ned's bastard, although it lists the mother as Unknown. I wonder if Ran could comment on whether the family tree he saw lists Jon as Ned's bastard and the name of Jon's mother. I suspect not.
  2. yes, we definitely need the next novel or two! One small point, whether the family tree is canon or semi-canon is irrelevant to this discussion (it was relevant in the wiki thread because of the need to cite it in the wiki). Canon, to my understanding, does not mean true or false. i think canon refers to work written by the author. It is canon that Cat tells Ned that Lysa tells her that the Lannister had Jon Arya killed. We later learn that Lysa killed Jon Aryn at Littlefinger's direction. Both are canon, I believe, but it is untrue that the Lannister killed Jon. Likewise TWOIAF contains mainy family trees, making them canon, but not necessarily true...I think.
  3. Except for a few things 1) the in-world Stark family tree found in ASOIAF does not show when or where anybody died, 2) Ran's description of the Stark family tree he saw sounds like that family tree is reference for George only, i.e. NOT in-world
  4. Actually, the appendix to ADWD lists Joffrey, Tommen and Mrycella as children of Robert and Cersie. I just checked.
  5. I think I found where Ran talked about the Stark family tree showing that Lyanna died at the TOJ. See the attached link. I hope I did it right, i'm crappy at linking. it's entry 985. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/34958-the-asoiaf-wiki-thread/?p=7061843
  6. I agree that Harwin is likely the hooded man. I will add one thing. People ask how the HM could recognize Theon, but Theon not recognize the HM. Well, in ASOS, Arya also did not recognize Harwin, at first. Why? Because he was thinner than before AND he now had a beard that Arya noted he never wore at Winterfell.
  7. Apparently, Lyanna died soon after childbirth. Ned arrived to claim her before she died. Lyanna was defended by three of the Kingsguard, ser Arthur Dayne called the Sword of the Morning, Ser Oswell Whent, and the Lord Commander Ser Gerold Hightower called the White Bull. Arthur had a sad smile, suggesting the confrontation would be bittersweet. A question remains as to the vow Gerold mentioned. Was he referring to the vow of the Kingsguard to defend the king and their duty to protect the king's family, or was it a specific vow sworn to Rhaegar at the Tower of Joy? If it was the first, that would suggest either Lyanna or the babe were of the king's family. In other words, that Rhaegar had taken Lyanna as a second wife, and/or that Rhaegar was the father of the baby. And now we see that Lyanna's roses were blue. On the topic of Ned's dream, just as a reminder, there is an SSM where GRRM indicates that this is a fever dream and, as such, should not be taken literally. Given that, I have a hard time deciding which parts of the Ned's dream to rely upon. Is the order of events correct? Are the quotes between Ned and the KG correct or not? Does it make sense that Lyanna is calling out to Ned using "Eddard" and "Lord Eddard", especially when we have Ned recalling that she called him "Dearest Ned" in an earlier memory? And why does Ned name all his friends except for Lord Dustin? Why would he list a friend by title only? I'm not trying to interfere with the premise of the OP, just trying to point out that, IMO at least, there are some valid questions as to which information in this dream can be relied upon and which cannot, especially given the SSM. Keep up the good work!
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