Lollygag

That doesn't explain the king part. Isaac said that came straight from GRRM. And I understand the logic. The problem is how you actually write that over two books worth of POV chapters.

Yeah, I still disagree. The rest of Bran's POV chapters - almost in their entirety - being images and prophesies? How does he even interact? And unless GRRM distances himself from when he said the endings were going to be very close and that was a very hard statement from him, I'm sticking with that. He's not king in that cave.

Just some very rambly thoughts and fun crackpots which the show might point to... Bran—I think he’ll leave the cave because I don’t know how you even write 2 more books of his POV stuck in a tree in a cave, and all while he's becoming increasingly important. The King thing can only come about from events arising from the fight with the Others. There will be war, but it's not theme consistent that the Others be defeated by war. This is where I think Bran's knowledge comes into play. Because the Wall was built with Other magic, I'm thinking that some compromise is reached as is implied by the past. The Others would have to get far into the South for all of Westeros to see Bran's abilities, so I'm thinking that everything will come to a head at Bran the Builder's other place: (Winter) Storm's End. King might be a rough ending. Maybe he ends up more as an oracle or some religious authority that’s as strong as a king. Bran was always Catelyn’s favorite and Catelyn is very tied to the Game of Thrones, so maybe this is Stoneheart's important role and the basis of GRRM's upset that she wasn't included. She pushed Sansa to the throne, but ends up putting Bran there instead. Beric sat a weirwood throne, and as Beric created Cat and Bran's all about the weirwoods - yep, makes sense to me. Is Bran/3EC good or bad? Probably grey like the rest. The old gods sound nice and naturey - until you hear the entrails hanging from the trees stories and see Whitetree. The Seven with their crystals and rainbows, and mother save us sounds lovely. But then you get the High Sparrow. R'hllor is against the Others and night. Good. But there's also that burning people alive thing. So both positive and negative aspects. Sansa—Queen is a boring end but maybe it’ll happen. But she’s enjoying her time as a bastard and I can’t see her wanting it. She just wants to go home and hasn’t thought much beyond that. I’m more certain that Sansa finally gets some autonomy (Queen of her own world?) and that’s more consistent with her arc at least right now. Don't see her becoming LF junior at 14 years old with no experience. The Starks manage the game well on offense, but it's defense where they falter every time. Guessing Sansa's main role will be to recognize defensive threats which the Starks are just terrible at. Arya—She was always running around and exploring so I can see her ending up wandering. I don’t see her learning Terminator ninja moves or captaining a ship at her age, though. Think I recall GRRM kind of joking about a series of stories about Arya solving mysteries in Braavos or something, and that sounds more consistent with book Arya's age. If she does sail, maybe it'll be part of a FM thing? Reminds me of how she was the center of attention on that ship to Braavos. Rickon—dead somehow. Some crazy dark things around this kid and it’s not that Cool! Badass! crap. Jon— He won’t be a brooding, mouth-breathing, I dun want it, statue-staring idiot. Jon really wants Winterfell. Badly. I’m not sure he’ll want the IT because he’s a homebody, but if he thinks he can use the IT to fight the Others, he might make a play for it. If book Jon's sick of politics, it'll be from being impatient with it like he was in ASOS and ADWD. He'll just want to get things done, and will see politics as bs which is just slowing things down. Dany doesn't get to Westeros until the end of TWOW or early ADOS, so any Jon/Dany thing will only have one book which will be packed with TONS of other stuff, so it seems more likely that Jonerys might be pulled from book Aegon, especially since the course of Jonerys was directed by Westerosi Jesus and not book Jon who are vastly different characters. Jon going back to the NW only makes sense to me if he doesn't die and the Others aren't defeated so much as a truce is reached so he goes back to keep his oath and decides that he's too impatient with the bs of politics to want to deal with it. The show thing that Jon's really a wildling at heart doesn't work for me at this point as he didn't enjoy being a wildling and certainly doesn't miss that life, so if that's gonna happen, it makes more sense that he just gets tired of the bs and comes to realize that his being a bastard wasn't so bad after all. Becoming King Beyond the Wall explains why Mance is such a strong parallel for Rhaegar as Jon is Rhaegar's son and he becomes Mance's successor, but that might be another different form of King as things are going to change significantly. Dany—to be the Others equivalent for fire, Dany needs to get into some serious magic stuff. Maybe Doom of Valyria sized stuff? I really don’t want to read a truly mad POV, so I’m hoping we get some more interesting version of Dany going off the rails than just Hitler Dany. The Dothraki are all about raiding and killing and they wear bells in their hair, so the bells might be from JonCon, or maybe they're about Dany deciding to go full Dothraki instead of just wacko. Tyrion—I’m really not sure at all. He can be really good and also really awful. I think it’s important that Jon, Sansa, Bran and Stoneheart (Cat realized that she falsely accused Tyrion and Jaime recalls that Cat was putting her trust in Tyrion returning her kids, not Jaime) all have a positive relationship with Tyrion, so there will be some important interaction with the Starks happening. Being Hand of the King...eh...boring, but it fits him if Tyrion finds the solutions to things (fixing the drains of Casterly Rock) which would be very in line with book Tyrion. In the show, they elected Bran based on knowledge rather heredity, Arya sails for Planetos America and they dressed Bran in Renaissance-inspired clothing which means Westeros' thousands-years long Middle Ages stagnation is coming to an end. Cersei—some sort of crash and burn. Her arc has been increasing associated with the magical, so I'm guessing it'll be more related to that. Crackpot for the Valonqar: Cersei has Qyburn bring back dead Tommen and he kills Cersei. Tyrion, Jaime and Cersei get 100% of their genes from Tywin and Joanna. Because of twincest, Joff, Myrcella and Tommen also get 100% of their genes from Tywin and Joanna, making Jaime's and Cersei's kids also their genetic younger siblings. Cersei's twincest creates what kills her. The Fall of the House of Usher and her house of cards falling on her head sounds very GRRM to me. Jaime—Book Jaime having show Jaime's arc is the biggest red flag for me and it's by far the most difficult to reconcile with the show counterpart. If he dies with Cersei, it’ll be mercy, he’ll be trying to save people, or he’ll recognize that Cersei is hopelessly mentally ill and he has sympathy for her. By the time he becomes a POV, that mental break from her is already happening and the symbolism and foreshadowing of the split is right screaming. In the books, Jaime also realizes that Cersei has no real feelings for him and was terrible to him. I like the idea of only a partial redemption arc as Jaime admires honor and what's considered good guy traits, but those things are not exactly natural to him. When he goes back to KL after hearing Joff died, he thinks he never cared for any of his kids, but also that he wants his own kids at the same time. Understandable that Jaime feels nothing for Joff, but how does he not care about Tommen and Myrcella who are sweethearts? It never hits Jaime how odd it is to admit not feeling anything for his kids in conjunction with expressing the desire for kids of his own. Makes sense to me for Jaime to conclude that he's not the guy who throws kids out the window and lets awful things happen, but he's not exactly the stock good guy either. But just don't see him even entertaining becoming romantic with Cersei again unless she really, really changes. Brienne - feel like her role is going to be important, just don't know what it would be. The KG thing might mean she plays a very important role in who becomes king. Makes sense as she's linked to the Kingslayer and she's sworn to Cat's kids with Bran being her fave. In the books, the KG are overwhelmingly linked to snow to the Targ's fire. The KG were supposed to be the most honorable knights in the realm making it difficult for a King to ask them to do anything dishonorable as it forced them to break knightly vows. It looks like the KG was intended to be protection for the King, but also a checks and balances. The still hidden KG oath along with the parallels to the NW make me think the KG has lost their purpose along side the NW and Jaime's Kingslaying was actually him being true to the original intent of the KG like Jon is being true to the original intent of the NW. The NW (I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn) protects from Ice and the snowy, icy-honored KG protects from Fire. Ice runs amok with the decay of the NW and fire runs amok with the breakdown of the KG. I'm not thinking Jon's the one who addresses Dany directly, guessing it'll be a character tied to the KG like Jaime, Brienne or the Hound. Unless Jon swears to Bran becoming a type of KG? If Bran becomes some sort of religious king, that would make sense as the only thing which makes it easy for Jon to reject Winterfell was the condition of burning the hearttree. Or perhaps we get a role swap where Jaime's dreams point to him taking care of ice and Jon in turn takes care of fire further tying the NW and the KG in common goals to just reign in extremes. The Counsel ending makes sense as in GRRM's world, the role of the Counsel is highly elevated whereas in most books and movies it's minimized or non-existent. There's also a pattern of absentee monarchs which allows the Counsel to rule in it's own right for the most part. Aegon the Conqueror was a hand's-off sort, as was Robert, Joff, and Tommen. This would fit Bran as an absentee oracle king. There's also the triad trend. The dragon has three heads. The Triarchs of Essos. Varys' sellsword riddle where he must choose to follow the King, the Gods, or money. When Tyrion arrives in KL, Varys tells him a joke he overheard. Someone went to toast the King, and the reply was that we'd need three cups for that as Joff was King, but a minor, Cersei was regent (Tyrion compares her to a goddess and much of her power comes from seduction which is sort of god-like: cue mention of the Summer Islanders seeing sex as a form of higher worship) and Tyrion who rules in Tywin's stead taking the money role. The three heads thing is also echoed in Aegon being a hands-off leader, Visenya being a strategizer and Rhaenys being a charmer/diplomat. Dany, Jon and Aegon, Robert, Stannis and Renly, Baratheon, Stark and Lannister, Jon, Sansa and Arya and perhaps Bran, Sansa and Arya all fit this pattern. The Lannister kids also fit this pattern with Cersei being a hands-off (incompetent) ruler, Jaime being a charmer/diplomat and Tyrion being a strategizer. The Hound - the top of my list to stop Dany because of his issues with the KG being hypocrites, liars, etc. It points to the Hound, like Jaime, recognizing the true, lost purpose of the KG. He'd also have a vested interest in not seeing the world consumed by fire. It would bring his arc full circle if he was sworn to Joff but abandoned him to fire but if he stayed by Dany to end her fire. I don't see Cleganbowl in the books. It doesn't jive with the Quiet Isle and giving up his Hound helm. And they're books. How good can a book fight be? It also means nothing if that's not even Gregor anymore and the books strongly hint that Gregor's head was sent to Dorne. My personal crackpot which was hinted at in the show but was impossible to carry out in full: He has Joff's head. We never saw what was in Joff's armor and Renly's empty armor was repeatedly brought up at the time. It also helps explain the Hound as a symbolic direwolf/Stark. In the show, the hinge which ends Dany is her being a threat to Sansa and Arya. Jon is especially attached to his sisters, but big Jon parallel the Hound is also very attached to both sisters.

If Dany gave up her crown or the IT, she wouldn't be going around insisting on being the queen. What's she the queen of? Somehow I don't think she's settling for Queen in the North. She's still set on the IT, she's just taking a detour which landed her part of the 7 Kingdoms.

ASOS Tyrion VI "Be quiet, Cersei. Joffrey, when your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you. And any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king at all. Aerys never understood that, but you will. When I've won your war for you, we will restore the king's peace and the king's justice. The only head that need concern you is Margaery Tyrell's maidenhead." Dany goes about insisting on being treated like the queen. Jon has to keep reminding people that he's not the king. Jon also tells Sansa that Dany isn't her father and in the very next scene, it's revealed to Sam that Aerys Dany killed Ned's Sam's father and brother.

I was wondering when wights started to sound like spider monkeys. Then I took a closer look. He has 8 "legs" which are segmented and composed largely of actual legs. When he was on fire, he reminded me of an insect-type creature from a horror movie. Ice spider? Maybe those were never literal things, but something that got warped in the telling with time. Maybe something like how Old Nan told Robb that the sky was blue because they lived in the blue eye of a giant, but it's really that a blue-eyed Great Other/NK/whatever is able to keep everyone inside his third eye. Like Santa.

This is great! It fits perfectly with the “little bird” persona. Some claim that Sansa will become LF Jr at 14-15 years old which completely unbelievable to me, but what you’ve pointed out here is the true advantage. We saw this with Robb, too. Twyin thought he’d whip Robb no problem but it turns out that because Robb was a complete unknown on the battlefield, that Tywin couldn’t outmaneuver him. It wasn’t until Tywin decided that while he doesn't know battlefield Robb, he does know teenage boys. And that was how he got Robb. There are some parallels between Robb/Jeyne and Tyrion/Tysha if you look at them making me wonder if Tyrion/Tysha didn't inspire the plan. I think this will be the advantage of the Stark kids against the more experienced players in the series. They’re young and unknown. Moreover, they all grew up in unconventional ways making them even more unpredictable. It’s all very Stark in that Ned is described as having a face which gave nothing away.

Here's Sansa's own words as to what she wants in romance/marriage and it's not Harry, not Aegon, not the Hound, not anyone. She definitely doesn’t care for being married to Tyrion, but she’s very aware of the fact that the marriage protects her from marriage merry-go-round and keeps her from being used as political pawn. ASOS Sansa VII I will tell my aunt that I don't want to marry Robert. Not even the High Septon himself could declare a woman married if she refused to say the vows. She wasn't a beggar, no matter what her aunt said. She was thirteen, a woman flowered and wed, the heir to Winterfell. Sansa felt sorry for her little cousin sometimes, but she could not imagine ever wanting to be his wife. I would sooner be married to Tyrion again. AFFC Alayne II "A marriage . . ." Her throat tightened. She did not want to wed again, not now, perhaps not ever. "I do not . . . I cannot marry. Father, I . . ." Alayne looked to the door, to make certain it was closed. "I am married," she whispered. "You know." In addition to other reasons listed above as to why LF wouldn't favor a Sansa/Aegon match beyond the fact that he may up and behead her or something, I'll add these reasons and also why it doesn't make sense to me considering the overall story: · LF wouldn’t be willing to hand off control of Sansa to Aegon Varys. · LF’s MO thus far has been to destabilize the realm and plunge it into war. Marrying Aegon and Sansa establishing a Targ Restoration is the opposite of that. LF doesn't personally benefit from any system which promotes the feudal system as LF wasn't born into that class. I don't know what LF is up to, but stabilizing and strengthening the feudal system isn't it. · It seems much more likely that Aegon will marry someone else first. I don't see LF's logic that Sansa could rule the Vale and I think he's bs-ing her on this account. Without the Vale, Sansa has little to offer Aegon especially given that the Starks don't even hold Winterfell. · And I really don’t see Sansa in King’s Landing anytime soon given the Bermuda Square of an even more crazy Cersei/Qyburn vs Tyrells vs the Faith Militant, Aegon’s invasion, Euron’s invasion, and then the new fire-and-blood-dragons-plant-no-trees Dany. Sounds like it’s just going to be a bloody mess and I rather doubt that there will be anyone to annul Sansa’s marriage especially after Euron plays his part. I think that the King’s Landing that the reader knows has its days numbered and I don’t see how it benefits Sansa’s development as a character to put her in the middle of that. To be honest, I rule out a number of characters’ potential to go to KL in the near future for this reason. LF's pattern is to start wars then ride them out safely in the background, not to be in the middle of them. · LF would have to be aware that marrying Aegon and Sansa puts her right in the crosshairs of Dany and her dragons. If I really wanted to kill Sansa and keep my hands clean, I’d send her to KL with all of the armies coming and marry her to Aegon just in time for Dany and her dragons to arrive. Actually the only way I see an Aegon/Sansa match happening is if Aegon is repelled from KL and he's forced to bounce around Westeros seeking support which would make Aegon more desperate and put he and Sansa (LF) on more equal footing.

Sorry, was vague here. Ned was part of Robert's crew which caused the death of Aegon's family and caused Aegon to be raised in exile. The reader knows that Aegon isn't very preoccupied with revenge, but Sansa doesn't know that. For all she knows, he's as angry as Viserys was (usurper's dogs). Too big of a risk IMHO to go near Aegon without some good intel on him first.

If I was Sansa, I wouldn't go anywhere near someone that my Dad screwed over that much.

Eh, I still give it better odds than you do. The clans were impoverished and starving and it wasn’t even winter yet when Tyrion encountered them. Take the starving and impoverished and add winter on top of it, I don’t think they’ll be in any position to turn up their noses at any possible benefit to helping Sansa Stark Lannister, a prominent member of not one but two major houses, if she shows up on their doorstep wanting help. And Sansa is learning politics and navigating people in general, not exclusively court politics. I disagree that they’ve forgotten Tyrion’s offer of the Vale as it’s too out of character. These aren’t que será será type fellas. These guys are so stubborn that they’ve refused to conform for thousands of years and they’re extremely possessive of what they consider theirs. And as I said, Sansa might be the difference between life or starvation and freezing to death. And after their experience with non-Arryn lords and having spent time in King’s Landing, I’m guessing they aren’t going to be so eager to resign themselves to their former way of living under the Arryn’s shadow especially with winter looming. AGOT Tyrion IV Afterward he knelt by the stream and washed the blood off his face in water cold as ice. As he limped back to the others, he glanced again at the slain. The dead clansmen were thin, ragged men, their horses scrawny and undersized, with every rib showing. What weapons Bronn and Chiggen had left them were none too impressive. Mauls, clubs, a scythe … He remembered the big man in the shadowskin cloak who had dueled Ser Rodrik with a two-handed greatsword, but when he found his corpse sprawled on the stony ground, the man was not so big after all, the cloak was gone, and Tyrion saw that the blade was badly notched, its cheap steel spotted with rust. Small wonder the clansmen had left nine bodies on the ground. AGOT Tyrion VI Tyrion was awake in the blink of an eye. The fire had burned down to embers, and the shadows were creeping in all around them. Bronn had raised himself to one knee, his sword in one hand and his dirk in the other. Tyrion held up a hand: stay still, it said. "Come share our fire, the night is cold," he called out to the creeping shadows. "I fear we've no wine to offer you, but you're welcome to some of our goat." All movement stopped. Tyrion saw the glint of moonlight on metal. "Our mountain," a voice called out from the trees, deep and hard and unfriendly. "Our goat." "When you meet your gods," a different voice replied, "say it was Gunthor son of Gurn of the Stone Crows who sent you to them." A branch cracked underfoot as he stepped into the light; a thin man in a horned helmet, armed with a long knife. "And Shagga son of Dolf." That was the first voice, deep and deadly. A boulder shifted to their left, and stood, and became a man. Massive and slow and strong he seemed, dressed all in skins, with a club in his right hand and an axe in his left. He smashed them together as he lumbered closer. Other voices called other names, Conn and Torrek and Jaggot and more that Tyrion forgot the instant he heard them; ten at least. A few had swords and knives; others brandished pitchforks and scythes and wooden spears. He waited until they were done shouting out their names before he gave them answer. "I am Tyrion son of Tywin, of the Clan Lannister, the Lions of the Rock. We will gladly pay you for the goat we ate." "What do you have to give us, Tyrion son of Tywin?" asked the one who named himself Gunthor, who seemed to be their chief. "There is silver in my purse," Tyrion told them. "This hauberk I wear is large for me, but it should fit Conn nicely, and the battle-axe I carry would suit Shagga's mighty hand far better than that wood-axe he holds." "The half man would pay us with our own coin," said Conn. "Conn speaks truly," Gunthor said. "Your silver is ours. Your horses are ours. Your hauberk and your battle-axe and the knife at your belt, those are ours too. You have nothing to give us but your lives. How would you like to die, Tyrion son of Tywin?" "In my own bed, with a belly full of wine and a maiden's mouth around my cock, at the age of eighty," he replied. The huge one, Shagga, laughed first and loudest. The others seemed less amused. "Conn, take their horses," Gunthor commanded. "Kill the other and seize the halfman. He can milk the goats and make the mothers laugh." Bronn sprang to his feet. "Who dies first?" "No!" Tyrion said sharply. "Gunthor son of Gurn, hear me. My House is rich and powerful. If the Stone Crows will see us safely through these mountains, my lord father will shower you with gold." "The gold of a lowland lord is as worthless as a half man's promises," Gunthor said. "Half a man I may be," Tyrion said, "yet I have the courage to face my enemies. What do the Stone Crows do, but hide behind rocks and shiver with fear as the knights of the Vale ride by?" Shagga gave a roar of anger and clashed club against axe. Jaggot poked at Tyrion's face with the fire-hardened point of a long wooden spear. He did his best not to flinch. "Are these the best weapons you could steal?" he said. "Good enough for killing sheep, perhaps … if the sheep do not fight back. My father's smiths shit better steel." "Little boyman," Shagga roared, "will you mock my axe after I chop off your manhood and feed it to the goats?" But Gunthor raised a hand. "No. I would hear his words. The mothers go hungry, and steel fills more mouths than gold. What would you give us for your lives, Tyrion son of Tywin? Swords? Lances? Mail?" "All that, and more, Gunthor son of Gurn," Tyrion Lannister replied, smiling. "I will give you the Vale of Arryn." As to Sansa and the Wildlings not having a significant interaction yet, I might agree if this was a different series. Due to the number of characters, this rule isn’t really practical to apply here, and sometimes (like with Sansa and the Wildlings) this would be a rather screaming spoiler to the astute reader. Other characters have crossed paths in previous books and not interacted on page yet they became important to each other’s arc in the future. Catelyn/Jaime is a big one, some combinations of Stark kids, more…

Even though Sansa is still technically a maiden, I'm struggling to see her as a maiden figure after this. All the same, I'm inclined to think she'll stay a maiden physically if not mentally/emotionally and not be marrying Harry or anyone else in the foreseeable future. Her role as Tyrion's wife opens the door to the Wildlings helping her to escape the Vale.

I really like this a lot but it still doesn't work in some instances.

I’m not really sure about the statue. Personally, I’ve always associated it more with Lysa and Catelyn/Stoneheart (Lysa literally breaks later in this chapter while weeping). Interestingly snowflakes are a big part of that scene. I’m really glad you asked this as it led me to dig into the snowflake thing further and it truly deserves it’s own topic as it’s raised some questions for me. Right now, I’m guessing snowflakes on a face (not the kind melting in the hair which I now think need to be treated as a different thing) signal a role change or an identity change which amounts to symbolic death. Theon feels snowflake kisses in ADWD and his next chapter becomes Theon I. Robb has snowflakes on his face as he receives news of Kings Landing which marks the beginning of his Lord of Winterfell arc which leads to him becoming KitN. Alys has snowflakes melting on her cheeks when she marries Sigorn (I think she’s mad at the Starks yet and she bonds awful quickly with Sigorn who HATES Jon so for me this is an identity and an alliance change). Sam feels a snowflake on his nose right before Jon tells him he’s going to be a Maester. Chett is attacked by snowflakes and he becomes a wight. Varamyr feels snow melting on his face and enters his second life as a wolf. A snowflake melts on Cersei’s letter before Jaime burns it. Splitting from Cersei is a big identity change for Jaime and Cersei both. Quotes below. AGOT Bran V The joy Bran had felt at the ride was gone, melted away like the snowflakes on his face. Not so long ago, the thought of Robb calling the banners and riding off to war would have filled him with excitement, but now he felt only dread. "Can we go back now?" he asked. "I'm cold." I found snowflakes on the faces of Jon, Bran and Sansa which include ominous mentions of Robb, though Bran doesn’t specify snowflakes melting in Robb's hair. He hasn't left Robb at this point, so it's not really an appropriate thought for Bran. Like those mentioned above, all of them have identity changes ahead. Bran’s becoming the 3EC. Jon may never be Jon Snow again (Kill the boy, thought Jon). And Sansa may remain Alayne Stone. I’m not sure what to think of the link to Robb for all three. I also can’t find an equivalent incident with Arya, but maybe just need to explore rain since snow is limited to cold areas. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/2764 Why, the Hound is dead, and Sansa may be dead as well. There's only Alayne Stone. AGOT Bran V also has a lot of direct and indirect Vale/Eyrie/LF references. Osha is a parallel to Stonesnake and Mya Stone, the chapter refers to a Stark being captured by Mance which links to Jon’s Stonesnake arc which also has a lot of Vale references, Robb and Bran receive news of Kings Landing which is LF’s doing. Bran runs into wildlings (Vale) and he rides out into the woods for the first time on Dancer much like Robert Arryn’s ride down from the Eyrie. Many have noticed connections between Mya Stone and Stonesnake who are both guides who say something to the effect of “the mountain is your mother/father.” Here we see Osha linked to Mya Stone by description and to Stonesnake as she carries a spear with a serpent on it. Osha would later become a guide figure to Bran and more so Rickon and would try to guide Robb north rather than south. She then will eventually take Rickon to Skagos which means means “Stone” in the old tongue. Both Mya and Osha are wiry, manish looking, and while Mya has a bowl-shaped haircut, Osha wears a bowl helmet on her head. Bran felt a sudden dread. Dark wings, dark words, Old Nan always said, and of late the messenger ravens had been proving the truth of the proverb. When Robb wrote to the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, the bird that came back brought word that Uncle Benjen was still missing. Then a message had arrived from the Eyrie, from Mother, but that had not been good news either. She did not say when she meant to return, only that she had taken the Imp as prisoner. Bran had sort of liked the little man, yet the name Lannister sent cold fingers creeping up his spine. There was something about the Lannisters, something he ought to remember, but when he tried to think what, he felt dizzy and his stomach clenched hard as a stone. (Remember Sansa’s tummy problems). Anyhow, accidently found more Jon-Catelyn-Bran-Sansa Vale stuff.

@Stormy4400 I think Jon is set up to out of it for some time. He already has a bad temper, and Bran is warned repeatedly to not spend too much time in Summer so it really seems like at least one of the Stark kids will run into this problem. It really looks to be Jon (a few quotes about Jon & Ghost being a bit too close below). I just don't think he's going to be very likable in TWOW. I'm also not sure about events repeating themselves too literally in regards to the Harrenhal Tourney. I strongly suspect Jon is headed for the Vale, but what I'm seeing doesn't allow for any Tourney participation. It also doesn't make sense to me that Jon would leave the NW given what he's seen and then go off and dink around in tourneys. Sheesh, I meant for this be shorter. I’ll say read and reread ADWD Jon II very carefully. This theory mostly stems from this chapter and also from the hunch going back to my first read of AGOT that Jon would be tied to the Vale somehow because his namesake is Jon Arryn and Cat’s Vale chapters figure him so prominently. Later, Sansa’s Vale chapters would have prominent Jon mentions. Sorry so short on quotes. I’d be repeating too much of the chapter. If you re-read the chapter, be especially aware of Vale and LF references. A lot of people noticed that there seemed to be a significant time jump between the last AFFC Alayne chapter and this chapter which I think would be necessary for this to work. The Cliffnotes: Jon is in a coma/believed to be dead: Jon thinks of himself as “Sleepy Jon Snow” yet feels wetness from snowflakes in his hair which is often death foreshadowing. No one actually sees the snowflakes, though. Look for all of the references to how close he and Ghost are now throughout ADWD. Remember that Jon/Ghost are closer at this point than Bran and Summer were then. Tyrion observed that Summer was keeping Bran alive. The smells are stronger in my wolf dreams, he reflected, and food tastes richer too. Ghost is more alive than I am. ADWD Jon VII Jon smelled Tom Barleycorn before he saw him. Or was it Ghost who smelled him? Of late, Jon Snow sometimes felt as if he and the direwolf were one, even awake. · Jon will be sent away secretly like Gilly, Sam, Maester Aemon and Dalla’s baby embarking on his Targ arc. Gilly parallels Lyanna: parting from her child and makes Jon promise her something. Sam parallels Ned: fathering a child who isn’t his to protect him. Jon parallels Maester Aemon (a Targ) and Dalla’s baby who is a king’s son who must be sent into hiding. Jon might enter his Targ arc with strong parallels to how he left it. We’ve also seen through Sam how this journey goes, so no need for anyone’s POV to relate it to the reader if Jon’s in a coma. · Jon will be embarking on his KitN arc: Jon recalls the story Artos Stark who became heir when his brother the heir was beheaded (Robb). Another Vale reference: Artos is really close to Artys which was the name of the Arryn hero. Jon Arryn had just been mentioned right before the Artos Stark story. · Jon will be embarking on something Azor Ahai-ish I’m not convinced that there is an Azor Ahai at all but folks may believe that he is or whatever. This is the chapter where he reads the Jade Compendium. · Jon will be sent away because Marsh doesn’t want Jon there and because there’s no Maester to care for him. The murder was a crime of passion which I expect he will come to regret, or he’s working with LF, or he’ll pin the attempted murder on the wildlings and put up a pubic face of being loyal to Jon, or something. Whatever the reason for Jon being sent away, the no Maester thing seems important. If he’s injured, there’s no one in all of the NW who can care for him competently. Where do you send him if he's in a stabilized coma like Bran and can be moved? No Starks, don’t know who is mother is, no Tullys, LF was married to a Tully, it’s a safe assumption that Marsh is linked to LF, and ships are already headed to the Vale for food. Again, look for Vale and LF references: Janos’ execution, mention of Jon Arryn, Giant uses his little finger to clean out his ear when he’s told to man and rebuild (snow) castles (Icemark), more…. Sam put a hand to his throat. "My lord, the Citadel … they make you cut up corpses there. I cannot wear a chain." "You can. You will. Maester Aemon is old and blind. His strength is leaving him. Who will take his place when he dies? Maester Mullin at the Shadow Tower is more fighter than scholar, and Maester Harmune of Eastwatch is drunk more than he's sober." ADWD Jon XI Cellador would be half-drunk, and Clydas was a poor substitute for a real maester, but they were what he had. Maester Harmune later ends up in Hardhome so Jon couldn’t stay at Eastwatch. · Who puts Jon on the boat secretly at Eastwatch? A crony of Alliser and Slynt is also tight with Bowen Marsh. In ADWD Jon X: Glendon Hewett was a seasoned man and a strong one, a sensible choice to command in Cotter Pyke's absence. But he was also as much a friend as Alliser Thorne could boast, and a crony of sorts with Janos Slynt, however briefly. Jon could still recall how Hewett had dragged him from his bed, and the feel of his boot slamming into his ribs. Not the man I would have chosen. He rolled the parchment up and slipped it into his belt. · Where does the boat go? Lots of Vale and LF references, so maybe there. We know Jon planned to send ships to the Vale for food and Marsh is obsessed with getting more food so we know he’ll be continuing Jon’s order. But there’s a lot of moving parts so the plan might go wrong, too. There’s so much ship traffic cataloged in ADWD which is missing in other Jon chapters, so maybe some important details here. · Yohn really wants to sell his food. Is it to a NW ship when his son Waymar is still lost north of the Wall? · What makes Oswell freak and LF bolt when Harry is about to arrive and it’s imperative to LF that Sansa and Harry hook up? Jon who is comatose a la Bran arrived unexpectedly on a food ship from the NW? There are a number of reason why I like this idea. I like LF as a credible RLJ reveal. The reader knows that LF would lie to you about what he had for breakfast that morning, but the general Westerosi citizen doesn't know that at all. At worst, some think him an ambitious weasel to be tolerated. Those old tapestries might be key to proving it though I can only guess how. I think it’s almost impossible that LF doesn't know or at least strongly suspect RLJ. Ned comes home with a bastard(s?) and there’s a mystery mistress(s?) and LF doesn’t look for more dirt to try to blackmail Ned into a position at Winterfell to be Catelyn’s shoulder to cry on? No way given his off-the-charts level of obsession. There’s a lot of potential to move the story forward very quickly here with a LF RLJ reveal. We know he has some really big move planned soon. LF’s MO is to pit major houses against each other and watch them destroy themselves. When Targs have dragons, that doesn’t work. LF needs his own Targ who will hopefully procure his own dragon. As soon as he’s served his purpose, LF offs Jon. I like the potential for a Stark reunion in moving Jon South. Lots of Bran stuff happening in the Vale with the parallels to Robert Arryn and the prominent mention of weirwoods. Arya is linked to the Riverlands which is nearby. Stoneheart’s in the Riverlands. ADWD Jon V "Now, a dog can herd a flock of sheep," the King-Beyond-the-Wall had said, "but free folk, well, some are shadowcats and some are stones. One kind prowls where they please and will tear your dogs to pieces. The other will not move at all unless you kick them." It’s unbelievable to me that Stoneheart hasn’t pieced together Sansa’s disappearance + LF’s obsession with the Tullys + LF suddenly having a bastard daughter Sansa’s age. Stoneheart is prowling the Riverlands tearing Freys to pieces (dogs in that they’re wannabe Starks). Sansa is Stone which never moves unless kicked. I would be quite amused if Jon sets out to rescue his sister fArya like a knight in shining armor, but ends up needing to be rescued by his frou-frou sister instead. Sansa needing to use her wits to get both her and an incapacitated brother out of a bad situation would definitely be a Stone getting kicked, especially given that she believes Jon is the last of her family and if something happens which makes her fully realize that she’s not near as secure as she thought. I’m rather tired of Sansa being a victim or a damsel in distress. Time for something different for her. Let’s make Jon the damsel In addition to Sansa needing something major to kick her into gear, for Jon’s KitN or secret Targ storyline to happen he needs to get away from the Wall. If he’s to believably survive the Others coming through the Wall, he has to not be there. They don’t take prisoners and it’s been clearly established that Jon won’t run away screaming, not that one can run well in snow anyhow. That said, there’s so many moving parts, that I wouldn’t be surprised if something else happens altogether. When you look carefully, a lot of scenarios have some back up in the text. But you ask if it’s possible for Jon to end up in the Vale, yeah, I think it is.

Thought about the Lyn/Jon/Hound similarities a little more. Sansa suspects that Lyn isn’t really loyal to LF but she doesn’t tell LF this. If Lyn reminds Sansa of both Jon and the Hound (people who have been good to her), if she’s fairly certain that he’s up for betraying LF, she knows he’s not going to be interested in her sexually (he likes boys and the text states that she’s getting rather curvy), then Sansa might take a leap and decide to work with Lyn behind LF’s back.

Sounds very Night's Queenish to me and Sansa has increasingly been connected to and drawn to the cold but I'm not even sure that we'll actually see the mythical Night's King. She might turn rather dark. Actually didn't GRRM say a lot of characters would be going that route? If she does go darker, I don't think it'll be villain level, just making rather uncomfortable choices like giving Robert more sweetsleep going down the mountain because as a respected Lord he couldn't be seen by everyone being a basket case and Robert being stronger undermines LF. With Euron and Cersei, I'm inclined to think that the absolute villain quota has been reached. There are loads of parallels between Jon and the Hound. I'm not sure how it would tie in, but they've both been mentioned in significant ways during her Vale arc. Lyn Corbray kind of sounds similar to both of them to me in some ways and he's most definitely dark and seems to be set up to play a big role in the future.

When Sansa goes underground (think Winterfell crypts?), a lot of wight/Other imagery pops up. This imagery is missing when she is above ground. LF says, "Winter is coming." “Lady Alayne,” Lord Grafton said. “You look bright-eyed this morning.” Wights are described as bright-eyed. “The world is full of horrors, sweet. By now you ought to know that. You’ve seen enough of them.” Reminds one of 'the night is dark and full of terrors'. "Charm him. Entrance him. Bewitch him.” “The night belongs to you, sweetling, Remember that, always.” With these in mind, we have the following possible word play at the end of the chapter. "Until that day, may I wear your favor in the tourney?” “You may not. It is promised to… another (another = An Other?).” She was not sure who as yet, but she knew she would find someone.