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Leo of House Cartel

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  1. Leo of House Cartel

    Who is the 3EC?

    Hey, Ser! Agreed 100% - GRRM has given us so many potential avenues to go down with the plot that it helps to have a place you where you can drop in and discuss ideas. I like to think of the forum like an Oldtown alehouse, and we are all the frazzled students, helping each other "earn a few extra links to our Maester's chain" Great quote to pull up especially considering the topic. The basin of water shattering reminds me of the Hammer of The Waves, famously caused by the Children, who themselves are often associated with both the 3EC and dreaming. This event "shattered" the land bridge which connected Essos and Westeros. Also, think about the "shattered" peninsula of post-Doom Valyria. "The seas rising up" was said to be one of many elements of the natural disaster. Steps/Stairs = Stars, and Dany's HOTU vision did have someone warning her to "run!". Quote is so rich with symbolism! Maybe it's because F&B is so fresh in mind, but the black haired woman being near water could be compared to the magic associated Alys Rivers, and the chilly tower room could be one of Harrenhal's.
  2. Leo of House Cartel

    Who is the 3EC?

    Nah, it was EC1, or EC2 To the OP, I'll go with Rivers, as someone else being revealed the 3EC might feel a bit shoe horned in as we head into the final 2 books. Unless the 3EC is actually some "big bad" character who leads the Others, I really couldn't see it being anyone besides Brynden. I do like the idea of a time travelling Bran, but don't know if such elements would really fit with the story. Shiera Seastar, while certainly a character I'd love to see explored further, is another one I'd find odd being revealed as the Three Eyed Crow - always felt that her being behind the red laquered mask of Quiathe was more likely, if we go by the logic that BR's partner in crime followed him into dues ex machina territory, but even that's an idea I'm not yet fully behind. Perhaps the "Him" referenced by Euron? Mr. Greyjoy is the "Crow's Eye", after all, and there is that "tall tower" remark, which certainly hints at a Bran parallel. A cool idea, one which would certainly up the stakes of the Iron Born arc, but I can't go for it just yet, as we really don't have anything solid to sink our teeth into. How about something ridiculous like the Three Eyed Crow being revealed to be an actual crow? Like one of the birds who have a Singer inside of them?
  3. Leo of House Cartel

    Which minor houses do you want to see more of?

    Man, I would also like to see more of the houses you listed. What's the deal with that purple Dondarrion lightning fable? Need to know more. Lightning is a badass sigil in general, and the house's main representative, the zombie rebel Beric, has so many questions surrounding him that I don't know where to start. It would be cool to meet a new Dondarrion in TWOW, and find out more on the family opinions on the "Lightning Lord". I feel we will get a good amount of Blackwood coverage in TWOW. With several interesting new historical figures established in F&B, as well as the ever lingering "Bloodraven's relatives/weird weirwood tree in the yard" dynamic, I feel like George is priming us for something exciting involving the denizens of Raventree Hall. Of course, the main question I have about this exiled Northern family is whether or not they have the ability to skinchange or experience green dreams. The enigmatic Daynes are such genuine crowd pleasers - most readers are fascinated by their lore, myself included. The mystique surrounding their meteor sword, pale stone island castle, purple eyes and silver hair is so tantalising. Most mentioned family members also seem to have their own interesting traits; was Vorian Dayne's "Sword of The Evening" title simply related to Nymeria's victory/Vorian's future in the Night's Watch, or was it like a inverse version of the SOTM station, reserved for darker, less noble Daynes? What did Davos Dayne do to earn the hand of Nymeria? How about Samwell Dayne? Was he called Starfire simply because he tried to burn the Starry Sept during his sack of Oldtown? Or was the handle somehow more related to the Daynes' sword? What was the reason for said invasion and might Oldtown hold any lasting grudges? It's these kind of questions, as well as all the Arthur/Ashara stuff, that makes the Daynes one of my favourites. I fully expect a visit to one of the Dayne keeps in the future books, as well as some cool stuff involving Darkstar and Edric in TWOW. As far as the Whents (and Lothstons too) are concerned I've always been interested in all the bat related stuff. Really hope that tale about Mad Danelle controlling giant bats was true, and that the ability was passed on to the Whents. The big Howland reveal will surely give us more info on the Reeds, the question is whether or not GRRM will make us wait till ADOS. I'd like to see a few other minor houses get more coverage, like the Farwynds, Marbrands, Celtigars, Saans and Royces.
  4. I'm currently of the toying with the idea that Howland Reed, under the guise of TKOTLT, might have went to Harrenhal and made Lyanna aware of certain prophetic information regarding the Others/COTF/PTWP, info which might have further backed up any such future talk from Rhaegar. Whatever the Crannogman learned at the Isle of Faces obviously left a lasting impression on the man, to the point he would turn the events into a tale for his children. Reed's decision - apparently motivated by the "magical" Green Men" - to head to the tourney that Rhaegar would publicly disrespect his wife by crowning Lyanna as QOL&B, seems awfully convenient. I'm not sure what Howland would have to say to make Lyanna believe him, but we have to remember the power of the weirwood net, and how Greenseers like BR or Bran have been shown to project images into other peoples minds. In the roughly year long period that followed the Harrenhal tourney, I assume the Prince of Dragonstone would have spent a long time preaching to Lyanna about the nature of the Prince That Was Promised. Said prophecy seems to be a Targaryen story, but one could imagine the Northern girl perhaps connecting such events with her own family's tales of the Long Night. Should Lyanna has drawn such a comparison, I think there's a solid chance she would have grown invested in Rhaegar's ambitions, maybe even to the point of falling for him. The inhumanly beautiful Dragon Prince, a skilled warrior, mind and musician who wants to save the world from the evil ice monsters - sounds like he could be quite the catch to a 14 year old, doesn't he? Having grown up around family members who were constantly warning her about the dangers of an impending winter, there's a possibility that Stark would be more likely to believe such tales of prophecy and magic. In regards to the OP. If Lyanna did indeed become a PTWP die hard, I could imagine her maybe feeling a sense of pride/duty regarding the Rhaegar situation. This is all speculation, to be fair, but I reckon on her deathbed she might have regretted all the bloodshed and misery caused by RR, but could also have been comforted by the knowledge that she had just birthed the child who would surely grow to defend humanity from the forces of the cold.
  5. I guess one could also ask the question of how Robert's weight gain, self respect and general inability to rule himself was affected by the death of Lyanna and marriage to Cersei, as well as how his choices regarding his physical health might have played into his mental well being. Before claiming the IT, Robert was a thickly muscled warrior who was known for both his skill at arms and the love he had for combat. Standing about 6'4, the future King seemed to have a herculean physique, and knew how to use it, both on the battlefield and in the bed chamber. He also shared his brother Renly's handsome facial features, with Robert's famously deep blue eyes engulfing those who looked upon them. A vibrant personality, who loved to party as much as he loved to fight, one can imagine many soldiers, nobles and small folk alike would consider Lord of Storm's End a lot of fun to be around. With his outgoing nature, wealth, lordship, looks and fighting prowess, he had a the type of gifts that drew people to his company. All of these traits are the things Westerosi people take great pride in, therefore, with so many others being impressed by him, Robert must have been pretty proud of himself. The famously honourable Eddard Stark seems like the very opposite type of personality who would be best friends with someone like Robert, yet evidently the Quiet Wolf saw something good in the young Baratheon, as both men grew closer to each other than they ever were to their biological brothers. Ned and Bob seemed to love their time as wards in the Vale, and both saw Jon Arryn as a father figure. Eventually becoming Lord of Storm's End, while also being betrothed to someone he apparently had genuine feelings for, Robert's marriage to Lyanna would have brought Houses Stark and Baratheon closer, furthering his bond with Ned's kin. The future certainly would have looked bright for this young Lord, he was happy. Of course, all was not meant to be. Flash forward to 298AC and Lyanna was dead, while Robert was drinking and eating his sorrow away, hadn't seen his best friend for years, was stuck in a loveless marriage, surrounded by schemers and looking nothing like the Knight who slew Rhaegar at the Trident. These are some pretty big changes for anyone to go through, and while we don't know how much Baratheon ever discussed his problems with Jon Arryn, it's safe to say he wouldn't have had many people he could actually have an real heart to heart conversation with. When your physical and mental health are at a place you don't want them to be, it's very unhealthy to deal with such problems alone. We know Robert still took a lot of pride in his old abilities in later life, judging by his shenanigans regarding entering the melee. Slow, drunk, out of practice and too heavy to fit into his armour, the King was still adamant on entering the battle royal; a multi entrant, last man standing contest that would have been waged in front of half the court. Even though most other competitors in the melee might have "gone easy" on him, on account of his Kingship, Baratheon's willingness to put himself at such potential risk of harm/embarrassment, clearly shows his desire for a return to times gone by, to a time when he would have entered that melee and likely destroyed the competition, whereas now he wouldn't stand a chance against most skilled opponents. That Robert (only half jokingly) also tells Ned his idea of abdicating the Throne and travelling to Essos to become a sellsword shows more of his preference for his old ways. While medieval combat like that of Westeros is clearly barbaric, there as certainly something spiritual about the martial arts. Robert clearly loved the thrill of battle, and was damn good at it. Over the years his weight gain and addiction to the booze would have stripped him of much of what made him a talented warrior, his speed, reflexes, will and even some of his strength. His position as King and mostly peaceful reign also meant he had no battles to take part in, with his last proper campaign being his attack on Pyke during the Greyjoy rebellion. With no wars to wage and a growing list of unhealthy traits, it's not likely that the morbidly obese Baratheon spent much time in the practise yard either; repetition and muscle memory being two other key factors in any fighter's ability. Think how depressed this would have made him. Imagine being a lifelong, world class pianist, who, through some poor choice of their own, damaged their hands to the point of not being able to play any more. Now, imagine having to go through this while being stuck in a toxic marriage, one you can't really end because of the power your wife's family holds. Robert was clearly depressed, and his own sense of self respect must have played a part. We don't know exactly when Robert's weight gain/descent into full on alcoholism started, but it was certainly during his marriage to Cersei, at some point after the Greyjoy rebellion. Whispering the name of Lyanna during the bedding ceremony showed he had more feelings for his deceased former fiance than he did for his new wife, something that would cause great resentment in Cersei, and helped add bricks to the wall that would grow between them. The Queen herself cared more about Jaime/the memory of Rhaegar than she did the King, and is just a cruel person in general. While we don't know if Robert had an inkling about either, this dynamic clearly added to all around miserable marriage, and helped further the King's descent. Would things be different if Robert had married someone else? I think so. While we can't entirely blame Cersei for all of of Bob's prickish tendencies, as evidenced by his whoring during RR, had he married someone who actually wanted to make a go of things, the King may have eventually found happiness. Perhaps he would grow to love them, even have had kids who he showed real affection for, properly raising them to be worthy heirs and honourable individuals, the kind who would make Jon Arryn proud. This new betrothed would obviously have to be cool with Robert's whoring, drinking and lust for battle and love of Lyanna's memory, as well as actually liking Robert's personality and being someone he could grow fond of. Take someone like Asha Greyjoy, for example. While the aspiring Queen of the Iron Islands probably wouldn't appreciate the man who Robert became towards his death, if her opinions on Erik Ironmaker are anything to go by, a warrior like herself might have been pretty into 20 year old Robert's"true form" - the muscular, handsome hardman who could back up his big mouth and drink with the best of them. A relationship with a bride of similar traits could have been good for Robert, perhaps in time he would even grow to fall for them, and finally put his depression over Lyanna to rest. If the power of love was strong enough to help Robert to ruin himself over his memory of Lyanna, who's to say the love he might feel for someone well suited to him wouldn't be strong enough to make him into the best version of himself. Had such events occurred, it's possible the big man wouldn't have had that gap in his heart that he felt he had to fill with whores, hams and hooch.
  6. Leo of House Cartel

    Worst Targaryen King

    I agree that the faith were getting "too big for their boots" and needed to be dealt with, but Maegor seemed to fight his war to exclusively benefit his own self and his reign as King, as opposed to fighting on behalf of the realm or his nephews and nieces. Yeah, if the Faith had successfully disposed of Maegor then I'd imagine Aenys' children, those "abominations," would not be safe, meaning the future of House Targaryen as a whole was in danger. Still, Maegor's highly negative relationship with his brother's children, combined with his never ending attempts to sire an heir of his own, indicates that the man was exclusively focused on destroying the Faith so he could secure his own personal line of succession. (BTW, we don't know how much the Queen Regent Visenya might have actually been pulling her son's strings, so I'm going on the basis that the majority of Maegor's Kingly decisions were his own) Consider how Maegor usurped his nephew Aegon's throne and went on to make enemies of family members like Alyssa, Rhaena and Jaehaerys. What was the need? Imagine how much trouble could have been averted had Maegor not claimed the IT and instead helped Aegon reign? With previous experience as Aenys' Hand, he might have done a commendable job. Also, let's not forget how quickly a unified Balerion, Vhagar, Quicksilver, Dreamfyre and Vermithor could have brought the Faith to heel. As a wise man once said "keep your dragons close". The fact he eventually killed his nephew then forcefully wed the Prince's widow should serve as evidence enough that the Cruel King had no respect for the ideas of family, honour or peace. The whole business with the Black Brides benefited no one, and served as an example of the King's madness, cruelty, and lack of true political skill.
  7. Leo of House Cartel

    A middle lane view of Rhaegar and Elia

    Yeah dude, these are such intriguing points. The nature of paramours in Dorne really does make me wonder if Elia might have been quite relaxed regarding the Lyanna situation. Lewyn Martell was said to have a secret lover, while the Red Viper certainly had many public paramours. Might be that Elia evn had one of her own. While Elia has been somewhat painted as a willowy, fragile person steeped in tragedy, there's certainly a high chance she shares a drop of that "Dornish Spice" seen by pretty much every one of her relatives (perhaps with the exception of Quentyn). Elia would have grown up reading stories of Nymeria, perhaps meaning she would indeed have gained some respect for the wolf girl's will. One should also consider how Elia's own opinion of her "Dragon Blood" might influence her outlook towards Lyanna. Doran and Quentyn both seem to be well read on the tales of the first Danaerys' wedding to Maron Martell. Both Prince's repeatedly bring up their own Targaryen DNA, and seem to be extremely proud of it. I do wonder if this pride extended to Elia. Perhaps she would have considered the Lyanna situation to be merely a modern version of Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya. Elia's Targaryen heritage could also mean she was just as into fulfilling the PTWP prophecy as her husband seemed to be.
  8. Leo of House Cartel

    Worst Targaryen King

    To be sure, but I doubt Maegor paid much mind to that.
  9. Leo of House Cartel

    Worst Targaryen King

    Aegon IV really sounded like a piece of shit. I struggle to think of any positive reforms that can be attributed to him, so if there are any, someone please help me out. A dodgy person since he was a teenager, the man created so many enemies and caused full scale wars due to his own lack of judgement and self control. Also, his wooden dragons were mortifying - one can only imagine what the Conqueror would think. Maegor was a brutal King, who, again, didn't seem to be responsible for anything beneficial to the realm. Did a whole lot to sully the overall reputation of his house, with his successor Jaehaerys and Alysayne having to do a whole heap of PR work to get things back on track. Aerys the Mad King obviously lived up to his title and was a rotten ruler, but at least he is said to have had certain positive - if not ridiculously unrealistic - ambitions in his younger days, like "making the Dornish deserts bloom", if that was not code for something clandestine. He also seemed to have had a few good years with Tywin as Hand. That said, Aerys reign marked the downfall of his house, so there is that.. Hard to choose.
  10. Leo of House Cartel

    Poll: Is Daario actually Euron?

    Fair enough man, I respect your opinion - I remain on the nay list, for now, but it's always interesting to read opinions which differ from my own, variety being the spice of life and all. In any case, I'm in no position to hate on anyone for a Euron Greyjoy based theory, as my ideas regarding the man usually descend into a spaghetti bowl's worth of skinchanged squids, tall tales, taller towers and disappointed tree men, with the odd spooky dark lord thrown in for good measure That's an interesting point you raise about people believing what they want - reminds me of a glamour using the power of an individual's own expectations-and-perceptions.
  11. Leo of House Cartel

    Poll: Is Daario actually Euron?

    Yeah, that's an interesting catch, but it looks more like a subtle parallel between Euron and Daario to me, as opposed to thinking that the Red Oarsman and Bloodbeard (two illustrious characters, to be sure) are also one and the same. I take this more as George sneakily placing similarities/connections between the characters, subliminal hints which might make the reader draw comparisons between Greyjoy and Naharis - perhaps with the aim of getting us to question both men's motives. If you put the bit about the Oarsman together with Dany's dream about her blue lipped lover, I can see comparisons being drawn between the Iron King and the Sellsword Captain, but in my eyes this still doesn't seem like enough evidence for the E=D theory. If I could be so bold as to ask; what is it that drives you towards the Euron + Daario idea?
  12. Leo of House Cartel

    Does Asoiaf Have a True Protagonist? *SPOILERS*

    Dany, Tyrion and Jon. While one/all three could eventually become villains/antagonists, as it stands I feel GRRM has clearly written these three to be the main heroes/protagonists of the tale.
  13. Leo of House Cartel

    Poll: Is Daario actually Euron?

    I do agree that the multi question style of argument can often be an obtrusive (if not toxic) way for one to approach a theory they don't believe. I think we've all seen many a creative debate on this forum (and many, many others) turn into an absolute shit show due to a mass of ideas and arguments getting bandied about in a less than polite way - I hope my previous line of questioning didn't come across as abrasive, but these questions are some of the main reasons I don't prescribe to the idea of Euron being Daario in disguise. Now don't get me wrong, while I would be open to E=D being legit, I guess I've just never read a compelling enough list of arguments in favour of the idea. As I said earlier, my own theories on Euron don't currently align with the proposal, but that could certainly change if I were to see a body of evidence which "set my spider sense to tingling".
  14. Leo of House Cartel

    Poll: Is Daario actually Euron?

    For me, I have no issue with the time/distance arguments, I simply haven't seen enough evidence to back the theory up/give me pause. My own views on Euron's motivations also don't really line up with the ideas proposed in the theory. One question I always have is why would Euron leave Mereen for two months if he really was Daario? The relationship with Dany was going well enough, and Naharis was clearly getting in her head. Why then would the disguised Crow's Eye essentially abandon all his good work and sail to Westeros? For the Seastone Chair, perhaps? Doubt it, Greyjoy has already made it clear that it's the Iron Throne he wants, and wouldn't he find it easier to claim said throne if Dany and her Dragons were backing him up? If Crow's Eye really was disguised as the "Wielder of Wantons", why risk the whole operation by sailing back to Westeros and risking the potential wrath of any number of enemies Euron has made. In conjunction with the above, if Euron actually is Daario, how exactly would he break it to Danaerys? Tell Dany "I've been lying to you about everything for months. I'm not this Tyroshi that you might have been falling in love with, I'm actually a slave owning pirate King (cause I know how much you love chains!) who is pushing 50 and plans to conquer the Kingdom which is your's by birthright. How about we get married and you give me a dragon?" Not only that, but consider the Dragonbinder horn. If Euron=Daario/the horn really does bind dragons, why wouldn't he just sail back to Slavers Bay on the Silence and use his Naharis costume and relationship to Dany to gain access to the dragons and have the horn blown/bind a dragon to his will? Again, this would be more beneficial to his lust for the IT than harrying the coasts with his Iron Men and would also avoid the hastle of sending Victarion, who killed his own wife due to Euron's betrayal, thus making him open to screwing the Crow's Eye over and claiming a dragon for himself/dropping the priceless horn overboard.
  15. Leo of House Cartel

    Do you think Victarion Greyjoy is a psycopath?

    For me, I consider it a bit nuts that he didn't find it acceptable to kill Euron and claim the Iron Crown while they were in Lord Hewett's solar, but is cool with the idea of sailing half way around the world on a wild dragon chase - surrounded by Ironborn who might be loyal enough to Euron that they could kill Vic at any moment - just so he can eventually kill Crow's Eye and "steal his bride, as he did Vic's". That's not sound thinking, if you ask me. I don't know if he's currently a psychopath or not, but keeping company with Moqorro could certainly have a serious effect on Victarion's state of mind, if it hasn't already. Considering he's now recognising the "power of the Red God", due to his coal black hand and Moqorro's predictions, I do wonder if Victarion will begin to question his own life long Drowned God based belief system. For a brute like Vic - who has had a pretty traumatic life of acts of murder and rape, watching several brothers die, his Lordly brother's failed rebellion , his other brother impregnating Victarion's wife and the Iron Captain's subsequent bashing in of his brides brains - finding out that the Drowned God isn't the only "true power" could finally be the tipping point. All of this could certainly add up to a highly traumatised mental state
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