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Leo of House Cartel

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  1. Leo of House Cartel

    Prediction: Jon will become a direwolf

    While I do expect around two TWOW chapters with Jon trapped in the mind of Ghost, each perhaps lasting a week or two timeline wise, I don't think it will be a permanent situation. I am open to the idea of Jon getting his regular body back and eventually second lifing Ghost after possibly dying in the War for the Dawn, but as of yet I still think there are too many avenues to explore with human Jon. Perhaps Jon's dead body will be stored down in the cold cellars beneath Castle Black while Mel/whatever healer attends to his remains. The temperature down there might be good for stopping any potential decomposition. We got a glimpse of the cold storage systems and the "wormways" in ADWD; foreshadowing, perhaps?
  2. Leo of House Cartel

    Ranking the best warriors at the start of asoiaf

    *something about stallions"
  3. Leo of House Cartel

    Ranking the best warriors at the start of asoiaf

    Drogo's abilities are often underestimated, mainly due to his battles being waged without armour. I agree with your take that he deserves a place - while we don't get to actually ever see him in action, the size of his braid, his Khalasar, his determination and his body should be evidence enough of the man's skill/gifts. "A head taller than everyone in the room", Drogo sounds about 6'4 - all rippling, lean muscle. Considering his daily routine involves riding for the majority of the time, one would imagine his cardio would also be pretty high level. Your point about Sandoq does bring to mind the idea of Drogo being comparable style wise. If we discount Sandoq's arakh being Valyrian Steel, it's easy to imagine a combat situation where the great Khal's use of the curved blade would overcome armoured knights, as the arakh allows for a greater range of movement, with rolling, circular parries and deep banking angles not usually associated with long/bastard swordplay. An issue might be Drogo's quality of competition. While he probably doesn't have a great deal of time served defeating classically trained, armoured knights, it's probably that he has dealt with a good few armour wearing sellswords who have had Westerosi style combat tuition. We also know most Dothraki are tough, being trained to hunt, ride and fight from an early age - none of them were able to topple the King of the Horselords. Now, don't get me wrong - if this were an unarmed, hand to hand pit fight, I reckon the Khal of Khals would probably defeat the majority of people on the OP list (yes, perhaps even including the Mountain, who Drogo wouldn't be totally dwarved by, would be a lot faster than, and probably would be just as violent as). I always picture an unarmed Drogo to fight in a Muay Thai esque style, with strong use of the eight limbs, his elbow attacks coming in from similar wild angles to those of his arakh. Coming from a travelling, unruly, machismo influenced society, one would also imagine he would have greater time spent grappling/wrestling than the likes of Jaime or Barristan. The great Khal's legs and forearms would be strong as oaks, from the time spent in the saddle/using his arakh, so he would have some serious explosive power with which to initiate a takedown attempt. If Drogo could get his opponent to the ground and mount them, I'd imagine his size, strength experience riding horses would make it a nightmare to try and shake him off. Bron has always impressed me, and I do wonder how much of his skill/ experience he downplays.
  4. Leo of House Cartel

    Ranking the best warriors at the start of asoiaf

    @Ser Dips A lot I like Oberyn's high place on the list. He had a gameplan, which he executed to perfection during his battle with Gregor. Rope-a-dope style, using the big man's size against him, the Viper danced. And he was able to out technique the most impressive physical specimen in the entire text, mano y mano. It was only through his own passion that he put himself in the position to die. Clearly displaying a giant wave of rage during the battle (as seen by "you killed her!") Oberyn was still able to remain calm and execute a successful defence based strategy, utilising his opponents own size and lack of discipline against him. With the Mountain's physique and repute, I think the Viper's showing in the trial by combat is the most impressive display of fighting skill seen anywhere in the main series. A near genius level intellect combined with a real nasty streak, as well as agility and acrobatic skill not seen by standard Westerosi, Martell managed to mortally wound an eight foot tall psycho, dodging the majority of the greatsword weilding brute's attacks while wearing light armour. We have Oberyn's mental and physical gifts to thank for this; his speed and reaction time are arguably just as otherworldly as Gregor's size and strength, while his mental preparation/training was able to overcome whatever power Gregor drew from his own insanity/combat prowess. If we discount the hubris which lead to his death, and compare the Prince to real world martial artists, Oberyn has similarities to some of the greatest - the mental game of Jon Danaher, the explosiveness of Tyson, the accuracy of Spider Silva, the tenacity of Dan Gable, and an Ali like penchant for playing mind games. While I'd rank Jaime higher, and potentially the Loras and the Hound, I reckon that, in a one on one situation, the Viper would have made short work of the rest of the "name" fighters in the country. Technique wise, how would you rank Syrio and Jaquen?
  5. Leo of House Cartel

    Will Selyse burn Shireen?

    I'd say it's a strong possibility. Selyse is a pretty hardcore follower of her chosen god. With all her recent religious teachings telling her that Stannis is Azor Ahai, the Lady of Storm's End might have come to view her husband's success as more important than the life of her daughter. If she really believes the Mannis is supposed to be the saviour of humanity, it's possible Selyse would consider sacrificing Shireen, a princess who has king's blood. It's also worth noting how Shireen's greyscale related history might come into play. The illness apparently comes from damp, watery conditions, and water is obviously the natural enemy of fire. Should Selyse's mind become more warped,one could imagine her looking at Shireen's face and seeing something "ungodly", followed by a potential sacrifice to placate the Red God and turn the tides in Stannis' favour.
  6. While we don't really know enough about Dalton to fairly judge, in a hypothetica "best version of Dalton VS best version of Alyn" situation, I'd say Oakenfist, for now. Naval Battle Dalton, while no doubt a fantastic captain of raiders, reavers and rascals, doesn't seem have as much experience commanding larger fleets. Velaryon, meanwhile, has much experience battling pirates and vagabonds in the Stepstones, which one would imagine could be good transferable experience when fighting a fleet of Iron Islanders. Depending on the time of the hypothetical battle and ages of the combatants, there's always a chance that Alyn was actually a better sailor than Dalton. Consider Lord Oakenfist's six great voyages. I imagine these journeys would have hardened his nautical abilities, perhaps exposing him to harder weather and seas than anything Greyjoy had experienced. Then again, the Kraken had sailed as far Ghis by the time he was in his early teens, so perhaps his own journeys were more hazardous/character building. One should also consider the mental conditioning of both combatants. Dalton must have seen some horrible sights in his time, and judging by his IB nature and the stories told of his time, he sounds like he would be extremely well versed in the violence and depravity of war. We don't really know too much else about his character, but it would be interesting to think how his experience and mindset would compete with Alyn's. A survivor of the Dance, the Master of the Tides had also been "in the shit" from a young age. His brother dying, along with half the realm would have been a nightmare to deal with. While the civil war itself certainly hardened the lad into a formidable opponent, I reckon the fact he was able to come away from a dragon attack alive would have also had much to do with his obviously rock hard sense of ambition/determination. Mentored by the Seasnake, himself oft regarded as the greatest seafarer in history, Alyn Velaryon would also have been exposed to a more varied nautical education than the Red Kraken. Single Combat Red Kraken, for me. Dalton wielded Nightfall, a Valyrian sword, and would probably have had more experience fighting duels than Alyn, as the nature of the Iron Born raiders usually involves coming ashore/boarding an enemy ship and getting into the thick of the action. No doubt Velaryon would have had his fair share of one on ones, but I think his position as Master of Ship and Lord of Dragonstone would have meant he would have fought smart more often than not and let his men do the sword stuff. Also, consider Alyn's bastard upbringing. I'd imagine he would have been exposed to far inferior early combat training than the Red Kraken, who was fighting and training with seasoned killers from a younger age, and it's not likely that Alyn's mother Mouse would have had a top quality Master of Arms training the youth, in the Shipyards of Hull.
  7. Leo of House Cartel

    Poll: Is Quentyn, Called 'Frog', Still Alive?

    Esta muerto. His whip and hand caught fire. Consider the type of flame. Not just regular old "mom and pop" fire, but dragon flame, to which only the fires of the earth and the sun itself are considered hotter. Now, Quentyn's relative Dany did indeed survive Drogo's funeral pyre, but said fire wasn't dragon flame. "The Unburnt" surviving the fire has been addressed by GRRM, who said Valyrian blooded characters being completely fire proof was not a usual trait (as seen by both Aegon II and Alyn Oakenfist's dragon related wounds). Let's not forget about the "life for a life" blood magic being used during Drogo's pyre, as well as Dany's "chosen one" status, While Quentyn does have Targaryen DNA, there's nothing to indicate that he would be able to survive a blast of dragonflame from essentially point blank range.
  8. Leo of House Cartel

    Who is the 3EC?

    Hey, Ser! Agreed 100% - GRRM has given us so many potential avenues to go down with the plot that it helps to have a place you where you can drop in and discuss ideas. I like to think of the forum like an Oldtown alehouse, and we are all the frazzled students, helping each other "earn a few extra links to our Maester's chain" Great quote to pull up especially considering the topic. The basin of water shattering reminds me of the Hammer of The Waves, famously caused by the Children, who themselves are often associated with both the 3EC and dreaming. This event "shattered" the land bridge which connected Essos and Westeros. Also, think about the "shattered" peninsula of post-Doom Valyria. "The seas rising up" was said to be one of many elements of the natural disaster. Steps/Stairs = Stars, and Dany's HOTU vision did have someone warning her to "run!". Quote is so rich with symbolism! Maybe it's because F&B is so fresh in mind, but the black haired woman being near water could be compared to the magic associated Alys Rivers, and the chilly tower room could be one of Harrenhal's.
  9. Leo of House Cartel

    Who is the 3EC?

    Nah, it was EC1, or EC2 To the OP, I'll go with Rivers, as someone else being revealed the 3EC might feel a bit shoe horned in as we head into the final 2 books. Unless the 3EC is actually some "big bad" character who leads the Others, I really couldn't see it being anyone besides Brynden. I do like the idea of a time travelling Bran, but don't know if such elements would really fit with the story. Shiera Seastar, while certainly a character I'd love to see explored further, is another one I'd find odd being revealed as the Three Eyed Crow - always felt that her being behind the red laquered mask of Quiathe was more likely, if we go by the logic that BR's partner in crime followed him into dues ex machina territory, but even that's an idea I'm not yet fully behind. Perhaps the "Him" referenced by Euron? Mr. Greyjoy is the "Crow's Eye", after all, and there is that "tall tower" remark, which certainly hints at a Bran parallel. A cool idea, one which would certainly up the stakes of the Iron Born arc, but I can't go for it just yet, as we really don't have anything solid to sink our teeth into. How about something ridiculous like the Three Eyed Crow being revealed to be an actual crow? Like one of the birds who have a Singer inside of them?
  10. Leo of House Cartel

    Which minor houses do you want to see more of?

    Man, I would also like to see more of the houses you listed. What's the deal with that purple Dondarrion lightning fable? Need to know more. Lightning is a badass sigil in general, and the house's main representative, the zombie rebel Beric, has so many questions surrounding him that I don't know where to start. It would be cool to meet a new Dondarrion in TWOW, and find out more on the family opinions on the "Lightning Lord". I feel we will get a good amount of Blackwood coverage in TWOW. With several interesting new historical figures established in F&B, as well as the ever lingering "Bloodraven's relatives/weird weirwood tree in the yard" dynamic, I feel like George is priming us for something exciting involving the denizens of Raventree Hall. Of course, the main question I have about this exiled Northern family is whether or not they have the ability to skinchange or experience green dreams. The enigmatic Daynes are such genuine crowd pleasers - most readers are fascinated by their lore, myself included. The mystique surrounding their meteor sword, pale stone island castle, purple eyes and silver hair is so tantalising. Most mentioned family members also seem to have their own interesting traits; was Vorian Dayne's "Sword of The Evening" title simply related to Nymeria's victory/Vorian's future in the Night's Watch, or was it like a inverse version of the SOTM station, reserved for darker, less noble Daynes? What did Davos Dayne do to earn the hand of Nymeria? How about Samwell Dayne? Was he called Starfire simply because he tried to burn the Starry Sept during his sack of Oldtown? Or was the handle somehow more related to the Daynes' sword? What was the reason for said invasion and might Oldtown hold any lasting grudges? It's these kind of questions, as well as all the Arthur/Ashara stuff, that makes the Daynes one of my favourites. I fully expect a visit to one of the Dayne keeps in the future books, as well as some cool stuff involving Darkstar and Edric in TWOW. As far as the Whents (and Lothstons too) are concerned I've always been interested in all the bat related stuff. Really hope that tale about Mad Danelle controlling giant bats was true, and that the ability was passed on to the Whents. The big Howland reveal will surely give us more info on the Reeds, the question is whether or not GRRM will make us wait till ADOS. I'd like to see a few other minor houses get more coverage, like the Farwynds, Marbrands, Celtigars, Saans and Royces.
  11. I'm currently of the toying with the idea that Howland Reed, under the guise of TKOTLT, might have went to Harrenhal and made Lyanna aware of certain prophetic information regarding the Others/COTF/PTWP, info which might have further backed up any such future talk from Rhaegar. Whatever the Crannogman learned at the Isle of Faces obviously left a lasting impression on the man, to the point he would turn the events into a tale for his children. Reed's decision - apparently motivated by the "magical" Green Men" - to head to the tourney that Rhaegar would publicly disrespect his wife by crowning Lyanna as QOL&B, seems awfully convenient. I'm not sure what Howland would have to say to make Lyanna believe him, but we have to remember the power of the weirwood net, and how Greenseers like BR or Bran have been shown to project images into other peoples minds. In the roughly year long period that followed the Harrenhal tourney, I assume the Prince of Dragonstone would have spent a long time preaching to Lyanna about the nature of the Prince That Was Promised. Said prophecy seems to be a Targaryen story, but one could imagine the Northern girl perhaps connecting such events with her own family's tales of the Long Night. Should Lyanna has drawn such a comparison, I think there's a solid chance she would have grown invested in Rhaegar's ambitions, maybe even to the point of falling for him. The inhumanly beautiful Dragon Prince, a skilled warrior, mind and musician who wants to save the world from the evil ice monsters - sounds like he could be quite the catch to a 14 year old, doesn't he? Having grown up around family members who were constantly warning her about the dangers of an impending winter, there's a possibility that Stark would be more likely to believe such tales of prophecy and magic. In regards to the OP. If Lyanna did indeed become a PTWP die hard, I could imagine her maybe feeling a sense of pride/duty regarding the Rhaegar situation. This is all speculation, to be fair, but I reckon on her deathbed she might have regretted all the bloodshed and misery caused by RR, but could also have been comforted by the knowledge that she had just birthed the child who would surely grow to defend humanity from the forces of the cold.
  12. I guess one could also ask the question of how Robert's weight gain, self respect and general inability to rule himself was affected by the death of Lyanna and marriage to Cersei, as well as how his choices regarding his physical health might have played into his mental well being. Before claiming the IT, Robert was a thickly muscled warrior who was known for both his skill at arms and the love he had for combat. Standing about 6'4, the future King seemed to have a herculean physique, and knew how to use it, both on the battlefield and in the bed chamber. He also shared his brother Renly's handsome facial features, with Robert's famously deep blue eyes engulfing those who looked upon them. A vibrant personality, who loved to party as much as he loved to fight, one can imagine many soldiers, nobles and small folk alike would consider Lord of Storm's End a lot of fun to be around. With his outgoing nature, wealth, lordship, looks and fighting prowess, he had a the type of gifts that drew people to his company. All of these traits are the things Westerosi people take great pride in, therefore, with so many others being impressed by him, Robert must have been pretty proud of himself. The famously honourable Eddard Stark seems like the very opposite type of personality who would be best friends with someone like Robert, yet evidently the Quiet Wolf saw something good in the young Baratheon, as both men grew closer to each other than they ever were to their biological brothers. Ned and Bob seemed to love their time as wards in the Vale, and both saw Jon Arryn as a father figure. Eventually becoming Lord of Storm's End, while also being betrothed to someone he apparently had genuine feelings for, Robert's marriage to Lyanna would have brought Houses Stark and Baratheon closer, furthering his bond with Ned's kin. The future certainly would have looked bright for this young Lord, he was happy. Of course, all was not meant to be. Flash forward to 298AC and Lyanna was dead, while Robert was drinking and eating his sorrow away, hadn't seen his best friend for years, was stuck in a loveless marriage, surrounded by schemers and looking nothing like the Knight who slew Rhaegar at the Trident. These are some pretty big changes for anyone to go through, and while we don't know how much Baratheon ever discussed his problems with Jon Arryn, it's safe to say he wouldn't have had many people he could actually have an real heart to heart conversation with. When your physical and mental health are at a place you don't want them to be, it's very unhealthy to deal with such problems alone. We know Robert still took a lot of pride in his old abilities in later life, judging by his shenanigans regarding entering the melee. Slow, drunk, out of practice and too heavy to fit into his armour, the King was still adamant on entering the battle royal; a multi entrant, last man standing contest that would have been waged in front of half the court. Even though most other competitors in the melee might have "gone easy" on him, on account of his Kingship, Baratheon's willingness to put himself at such potential risk of harm/embarrassment, clearly shows his desire for a return to times gone by, to a time when he would have entered that melee and likely destroyed the competition, whereas now he wouldn't stand a chance against most skilled opponents. That Robert (only half jokingly) also tells Ned his idea of abdicating the Throne and travelling to Essos to become a sellsword shows more of his preference for his old ways. While medieval combat like that of Westeros is clearly barbaric, there as certainly something spiritual about the martial arts. Robert clearly loved the thrill of battle, and was damn good at it. Over the years his weight gain and addiction to the booze would have stripped him of much of what made him a talented warrior, his speed, reflexes, will and even some of his strength. His position as King and mostly peaceful reign also meant he had no battles to take part in, with his last proper campaign being his attack on Pyke during the Greyjoy rebellion. With no wars to wage and a growing list of unhealthy traits, it's not likely that the morbidly obese Baratheon spent much time in the practise yard either; repetition and muscle memory being two other key factors in any fighter's ability. Think how depressed this would have made him. Imagine being a lifelong, world class pianist, who, through some poor choice of their own, damaged their hands to the point of not being able to play any more. Now, imagine having to go through this while being stuck in a toxic marriage, one you can't really end because of the power your wife's family holds. Robert was clearly depressed, and his own sense of self respect must have played a part. We don't know exactly when Robert's weight gain/descent into full on alcoholism started, but it was certainly during his marriage to Cersei, at some point after the Greyjoy rebellion. Whispering the name of Lyanna during the bedding ceremony showed he had more feelings for his deceased former fiance than he did for his new wife, something that would cause great resentment in Cersei, and helped add bricks to the wall that would grow between them. The Queen herself cared more about Jaime/the memory of Rhaegar than she did the King, and is just a cruel person in general. While we don't know if Robert had an inkling about either, this dynamic clearly added to all around miserable marriage, and helped further the King's descent. Would things be different if Robert had married someone else? I think so. While we can't entirely blame Cersei for all of of Bob's prickish tendencies, as evidenced by his whoring during RR, had he married someone who actually wanted to make a go of things, the King may have eventually found happiness. Perhaps he would grow to love them, even have had kids who he showed real affection for, properly raising them to be worthy heirs and honourable individuals, the kind who would make Jon Arryn proud. This new betrothed would obviously have to be cool with Robert's whoring, drinking and lust for battle and love of Lyanna's memory, as well as actually liking Robert's personality and being someone he could grow fond of. Take someone like Asha Greyjoy, for example. While the aspiring Queen of the Iron Islands probably wouldn't appreciate the man who Robert became towards his death, if her opinions on Erik Ironmaker are anything to go by, a warrior like herself might have been pretty into 20 year old Robert's"true form" - the muscular, handsome hardman who could back up his big mouth and drink with the best of them. A relationship with a bride of similar traits could have been good for Robert, perhaps in time he would even grow to fall for them, and finally put his depression over Lyanna to rest. If the power of love was strong enough to help Robert to ruin himself over his memory of Lyanna, who's to say the love he might feel for someone well suited to him wouldn't be strong enough to make him into the best version of himself. Had such events occurred, it's possible the big man wouldn't have had that gap in his heart that he felt he had to fill with whores, hams and hooch.
  13. Leo of House Cartel

    Worst Targaryen King

    I agree that the faith were getting "too big for their boots" and needed to be dealt with, but Maegor seemed to fight his war to exclusively benefit his own self and his reign as King, as opposed to fighting on behalf of the realm or his nephews and nieces. Yeah, if the Faith had successfully disposed of Maegor then I'd imagine Aenys' children, those "abominations," would not be safe, meaning the future of House Targaryen as a whole was in danger. Still, Maegor's highly negative relationship with his brother's children, combined with his never ending attempts to sire an heir of his own, indicates that the man was exclusively focused on destroying the Faith so he could secure his own personal line of succession. (BTW, we don't know how much the Queen Regent Visenya might have actually been pulling her son's strings, so I'm going on the basis that the majority of Maegor's Kingly decisions were his own) Consider how Maegor usurped his nephew Aegon's throne and went on to make enemies of family members like Alyssa, Rhaena and Jaehaerys. What was the need? Imagine how much trouble could have been averted had Maegor not claimed the IT and instead helped Aegon reign? With previous experience as Aenys' Hand, he might have done a commendable job. Also, let's not forget how quickly a unified Balerion, Vhagar, Quicksilver, Dreamfyre and Vermithor could have brought the Faith to heel. As a wise man once said "keep your dragons close". The fact he eventually killed his nephew then forcefully wed the Prince's widow should serve as evidence enough that the Cruel King had no respect for the ideas of family, honour or peace. The whole business with the Black Brides benefited no one, and served as an example of the King's madness, cruelty, and lack of true political skill.
  14. Leo of House Cartel

    A middle lane view of Rhaegar and Elia

    Yeah dude, these are such intriguing points. The nature of paramours in Dorne really does make me wonder if Elia might have been quite relaxed regarding the Lyanna situation. Lewyn Martell was said to have a secret lover, while the Red Viper certainly had many public paramours. Might be that Elia evn had one of her own. While Elia has been somewhat painted as a willowy, fragile person steeped in tragedy, there's certainly a high chance she shares a drop of that "Dornish Spice" seen by pretty much every one of her relatives (perhaps with the exception of Quentyn). Elia would have grown up reading stories of Nymeria, perhaps meaning she would indeed have gained some respect for the wolf girl's will. One should also consider how Elia's own opinion of her "Dragon Blood" might influence her outlook towards Lyanna. Doran and Quentyn both seem to be well read on the tales of the first Danaerys' wedding to Maron Martell. Both Prince's repeatedly bring up their own Targaryen DNA, and seem to be extremely proud of it. I do wonder if this pride extended to Elia. Perhaps she would have considered the Lyanna situation to be merely a modern version of Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya. Elia's Targaryen heritage could also mean she was just as into fulfilling the PTWP prophecy as her husband seemed to be.
  15. Leo of House Cartel

    Worst Targaryen King

    To be sure, but I doubt Maegor paid much mind to that.
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