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Unchained

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  1. Unchained

    Songs that Make Us Think of A Song of Ice and Fire

    I am probably not the first to figure this out, but John the Fiddler with his golden fiddle sigil is a direct reference to "The Devil went down to Georgia". In that song a man named Johnny battles the Devil for a golden fiddle, if he loses the Devil gets his soul. I took the trouble to write for your pleasure new lyrics. John the Fiddler couch your lance and ride that warhorse hard Cause hells broke loose in Whitewalls and Brynden Rivers deals the cards If you win you get this shiny crown made of gold But if you lose Bloodraven gets your soooooouuuuuulllllllll
  2. In that case, sense we are seeing things in reverse order, I think the man who is bled out to the tree is probably the man playing the role the man who is killed that the woman emerging from the pool wants to avenge. Not that those people actually knew each other, but in a sense that vision shows us some of the important events in reverse order.
  3. Coming from the water with stretch marks is like Dany coming out of the water pregnant. @LmL talks about an ice moon and a fire moon. More so than anything else his talent, at least relative to me, is avoiding being wrong, he's careful, although I disagree with him that the NQ goes to the NK for help, I think he may be the man she is forced into marrying and later betrays but my manifesto on that is above. Even he admits that he is not sure if there was actually two moons or a fiery one that turned icy with two phases. I think there is enough evidence there were two moons, but I am less sure there were two women on the ground 8,000 years ago causing the LN. Maybe there were, but based on my comparing events Cat and Lysa, a classic fire and ice sisterhood, seem to be playing the same role of the same person. Lysa is angry NQ mad about Petyr being symbolically killed and taken from her, but Cat is the one he fights over when symbolically killed. Maybe the less than pure evenstar women emerging from the pools is like the fire moon Maiden changing icy, the two phases. The archetypal woman seems most likely to me to have had a child, had it and its father taken, become icy with hatred, then gritted her teeth, married her love's killer and had his kids. Then she helps one of the kids betray her husband when she allows one to be taken to be raised and defeat him in a Zeus or Horus manner.
  4. Wait, I thought the NQ exploits her child and the huntsman or whatever you wanna call him liberates him or her. Theon is the one it has to be. She uses him to get into the crypts and bond over how they both wanted to be Starks. I think it may not have been the one who made the NQ hoary that she wants revenge against. I may have already said this, can't remember. Rather, it was the one who killed her first love, a love that was considered to have dishonored her. There are examples of the other way like you said where the woman is blamed for being raped, but on the other hand there is a conflation of adultry for love and rape, examples include the obvious Rhaegar "raping" Lyanna and Daeron the singer being accused of rape for having what he says was consensual sex with a lord's daughter (have you see bluetiger's find concerning him and a LOTR story that sounds very Last Hero like? It gives reason to suspect his story is important at least). Let's go through the list, Lysa had her son with Petyr taken and was not allowed to be with him to motivate her to turn to Petyr for help killing her husband, Petyr betrays her. Cersei never forgives Robert for killing Rhaegar, she turns to Lancel (not sure how he fits the pattern) to kill Robert. She trusts a Rhaegar lookalike who betrays her as does Lancel. Ashara was "dishonored" by a Stark. Idk what she actually does, but Arya says about the song about the woman who jumps off a tower because her prince was killed that she should have killed the men who killed her prince. Lady Dustin isn't mad at Brandon for making her hoary, she is mad at Rickard and his maester for taking him away, also at Ned for taking her husband away. She turns to the Starks most powerful servile House. Would Tysha be angry at Tyrion? If she is the Sailor's wife, she isn't because we know she longs for her husband back. Her fellow prostitute who says her husband is dead is telling us more of an archetypal clue. The NQ's first love is killed and taken from her. Only he is not really dead dead. Then she turns to this dead lover, but like the lady says, it is a bad idea. Dany breaks the world for her first love (a lover that is kinda rapey with her, she does say yes, but before... it really shows us this first love/rape conflation well). Can Cat be thought of as using her son to kill the people who killed her first love? She can be thought of as giving them up in a Rumpelstiltskin-like fashion with her prayers one of which is to summon the Renly killing shadow. Stannis does go fight her husband's murderers after that. Did I forget anyone? Assuming you buy this, would the NK be the now dead first love she turns to? Or is he the killer of the first love who claims her? I have a hard time deciding if the NK is a Little or Big Brother. I think Big and Huntsman who steals the child is like the Little Brother she turns to. Love this quote. Lysa has the Others not with her first love, but with her "legitimate" husband. That's all the evidence I have though. I think the Little Brother (the first love usually but not always) is defeated in round one and made servile, like being forced to join the Watch before betraying his master the Big Brother. That's sounds kinda like the NK was a first love the NQ turns to to birth Others to bring down her husband, the Big Brother. https://theambercompendium.wordpress.com/2017/12/05/the-advent-calendar-5th-dec-2017/ here is a link to BlueTiger's Tolkien Daeron find.
  5. @Darry Man @ravenous reader this is seems to be where hoary whores are discussed now. This may have already been said, but I just realized it. Lanna and the sailor's wife are probably Tysha and Tyrion's bastard daughter. Just realized Robert's bastard daughter with a whore is named Barra, which is the same thing done to a different name. She is at Chataya's brothel where the mother who owns the place whores out her own daughter, Alayaya, in a parallel to the Sailor's wife doing the same with her daughter. This has has something to do with the image of the NQ figure that walks out of the black water at Winterfell in Bran's retrograde dream. She wishes for a strong son to avenge her. She is whoring out her son in a way, using him for her own goals like a puppet with no concern for his own wellbeing. Dany emerges from the womb of the world in a similar way, and later whores out that baby for black magic. Anyway, that chapter where Ned sees Barra is one of @Kingmonkey's ToJ parallel scenes from the puppets of ice and fire essay. The fight that follows set up by Littlefinger between Ned and his three men, who play the Other/KG role from the ToJ when Ned mounts up it says the "others followed", and Jaime's men mirrors the ToJ where Lyanna is being whored out in some way. Jon too, he never gets his own life, only one of servitude. Ned winds up having his coma dream of the ToJ because of the very important "dolorous stroke" like leg wound he suffers there like the fisher king from Arthurian myth, which is the same mythos that a lot of pre-Bob's rebellion stuff comes from. Arthur Dayne obviously plays into that, and Lancelot's castle is called dolorous guard before being renamed joyous guard after a visit from Guinevere (maybe like queensgate got renamed?). Ned thinks about Lyanna and her promise she asked for, comparing it to Barra's mom's making Ned make a promise. Barra's mom wants Ned to tell Robert about them, Lyanna's was probably to tell Jon who he was or tell someone something. He also thinks about Rhaegar and Jon throughout that whole travel. Ned kills a guy with a "sickening crunch" to the head, which George uses as code for a moon death, Oberyn and Theon at the burning of Winterfell also get one. Jory's sword is a red rain, magic sword words. At the end Ned gets milk of the poppy, which is something like becoming an Other or going through an icy transformation I think, like slipping into a warm bath.
  6. @ravenous reader lots of food for thought here. Concerning Rhaegar's name, I do think the gar in his name is a callous to Garth. Whereas Robert is more outwardly like Garth, Rhaegar is like an inverted version. That may be why it is in the second half of his name. Whether the fish is involved as well, who knows. I do associate him as the same thing as Petyr when fighting Brandon. As you have pointed out he like a crocodile trying to drown his stronger opponent. There is a species of gar known as an alligator gar. I agree with your interpretation of the meaning of "winter is coming". LmL has said he believes the Last Hero was a child taken from the Others, who then defeated them. Rather than the Long Night being caused by someone's ambition, I have thought for awhile that is was an act of love. I think it was a case of the world needing to be destroyed because it was supported by the child sacrifice demanded by Garth. Dany is acting out this idea in Slaver's bay. Yea, it would be nice if she could just govern and fix the place, but she can't and the next best thing is to just destroy the retched place that even Hizdahr says is in need of serious reform so something new can grow. Westeros itself is quickly becoming a cesspool is need of a Ragnarok event. It may be that the betrayal and oath breaking that caused the Long Night was in fact a very just one, such as saving a child meant for the flames or ice or whatever. This would be similar to the Kingslaying Jaime is known for among other examples. The obvious story to look at would be Snow White. She is spared by the Huntsman and a heart of a pig is given in her place in some versions. The Huntsman is another version of the green man and Monster is rescued by Sam the Huntsman. Ned at the Tower of Joy I would think is playing this Huntsman. He is subservient to Robert who I think may be the hungry child-eating Garth that is betrayed by his Huntsman. Ned is I think the King of Winter here. The King of Winter and the King Beyond the Wall seem to be like the same thing as far as I can tell and they fought the Night's King. So was the Night's King the same person as Garth? The hungry god. Or did the Night's King serve the hungry God and feed him. All so confusing. It feels almost confirmed to me to me by now that the Night's Queen was made into a "whore" in some way. Was she wronged, and them turned to making Others, or does she become a 'whore' by making Others. Or both? Was Lady Dustin made into a 'whore' Brandon? The Night's Queen is said in the world book to maybe have been a lady of the barrowlands, making her possibly one of the top people to look at for NQ behavior. She dislikes the Starks, and is using the Boltons and to get revenge on them.
  7. Unchained

    Where Whores Go

    I love the idea of the "whore" in fact being the victim, at least initially. Indeed prostitutes are often the victims. Cersei is the queen of whores per Jaime, and she is raped and savaged by Robert possibly showing us the early stages of the vengeful hoary Night's queen. She needs to go through an icy transformation like other fiery women who emerge from water like Dany at the Womb of the world, the woman in Bran's vision asking for children to avenge her, and Osha at Winterfell in the same pool. Hers may be her rebirth at the ice moon of the sept of Baelor on Visenya's hill. Indeed if a KG knight she had created Robert Strong fights for her it would all come together nicely. Aegon the Unworthy had a consort whose last name was OTHERys. She had his daughter, and moved to Braavos which seems to be the #1 place whores go. She starts a line of black pearls from his king's blood. They aren't like Others but more like entrapping sirens. Braavos seems to be where Tyrion's "whore" also went after being raped to also give birth to his daughter. Tyrion and fat Aegon both share an "appreciation" for women with Robert that gets into rape at times. They make "whores".
  8. The short and hopefully understandable version is that yes I agree with that. The third round you are talking about is where the child puppet king rebels against his little brother puppet master like the king of Rohan does to Grima and Saruman. Rohan is in a vale after all. It seems to be headed toward Sweetrobin in the books, but he not being important enough was replaced by Bran who is like the literal version of everything Robin is metaphorically. I think all three rounds are decided by a woman. Cat gives her favor to Brandon. It comes full full circle in the sence that the little brother starts out sympathetic and winds up a tyrant like his big brother was. That allows the author to connect and overlap the stories in different ways.
  9. Unchained

    Songs that Make Us Think of A Song of Ice and Fire

    That one fits so well, I cant help but wonder if a direct reference is present. How about Ring of Fire by Johnny Cash? It's all about love destroying by burning everything, which seems to be the tragic message of the whole story. "When hearts like ours meet" make me think of the burning heart of the red god.
  10. Unchained

    Lyanna Stark: A Gift from Old Gods

    I read your miasma essay what seems like a long time ago, but probably was not. In the prologue it looks like a person in a tree calls the Others, so I go with that being a thing. However, if a mind in the trees without a body calls them, what you said could definitely be an aspect of what they are, in fact I think it is a distinct possibility. I lurk on the last hearth from time to time. I am going to throw out a possible root source for a lot of this symbolism. I will say ahead that this is something that I have been trying to connect to ASoIaF for a couple months, so I am not impartial. That being said, I think it fits. It is the the Blood Eagle. The Blood Eagle was a sacrifice to Odin where the lungs were cut out through the back and spread out like wings. What sounds like that... I have seen people say that the bloody hawk sounds like Bloodraven, and, as a fellow Odin impersonator, he could also be a sacrifice to Euron. I do not think we need to go that roundabout way for the horn blower to be a sacrifice to Euron. I think through the blood eagle sacrifice he can be killed for an Odin impersonator like Euron, and rather Bloodraven's name comes from said documented sacifice. Bloodraven is after all a sacifice to the trees with their roots piercing him. Wings coming through a split in the back, I did connect to Dany's dream where her back opens and wings come out. However, I did not connect it to all the people who are opened up from something low to something higher in the front. Fortunately, @ravenous reader did. They are everywhere. Without even looking for them I two more in the last two days. Moments before Catelyn sees that second quote, she thinks of Littlefinger being opened up in the waist by Brandon Stark's sword. In transformational terms, this is Littlefinger's death that turns him into a trickster in the shadows who stays away from fights. @ravenous reader, this is what I was talking about on your thread. I had the name wrong. I am still terrible with names. I said Vance, I think that is the name of a Stark guard a couple chapters later, instead of the name of the guy in the ritual combat in the chapter I was talking about is Vardis Egen. I must make deal with the devil now and summon him. @LmL, can you elaborate on how people, sometimes but not always moon maidens, who are either split open in the back to sprout wing are similar to people opened up in the front, either in ritual combat or to die giving birth to Lightbringer babies?
  11. Unchained

    Lyanna Stark: A Gift from Old Gods

    You know, I read @ravenous reader's amazing post and planed on responding with a post that involved Shakespare, among other things. Then I got to my computer and found you beat me to it. I find myself thinking of his work more and more as I read ASoIaF. I have not read Julius in years, but you are right there are a ton of parallels. Another one that I may be imagining, if Jon skinchanges Ghost, who is symbolically interchangable with the Old Gods, upon death he would be a dish for the gods as well as a carcass fit for hounds per the Rat Cook line of thinking. @Voice, you almost had me convinced Jon was born from a C-section before I got distracted from this post, but now that I am taking a second look at the posts with the last few and thought about it myself, I am 100% on board. In fact I think it is related to a major theme running through the novels. I made that reply about antlers falling off to give you a hard time on behalf of fellow grey sheep of westros.org (although I have issues with your rebuttal involving tropical and maybe desert deer appying to antlers from an animal living in a place known as The North but that is beside the point). Even though we cannot break out of our head canon, I think we can work together. You have certainly found something here. I want to connect this to a few things in the books and one that probably is only in my head. I will start with the one that I am likely dreaming into existence. The first time I read Macbeth, I was stuck by how much he, feeling safe from a prophecy about men who are born from women only to be killed by someone bore from C-section, sounded like a product of another of GRRM's muses, namely the Witch King of Angmar. He had a protective prophecy about not being able to be killed by a man only to be killed by a woman. We have caught the author referencing Macbeth when the trees turned into soldiers to attack Asha in her castle, and Tolkien references are everywhere (see The Hightower or Jon for details). I would love for a statement/prophecy about whatever winds up being the big bad at the end only to killed by a woman (Dany) and a man not born from a woman (Jon). On a side note, Macbeth is a usurper led by a trickster to steal the throne who winds up dead, and the witch king was a power hungry king tricked by a magic user. That fits what we have been discussing Azor Ahai being recently. Is AA being a duped fool heretic enough to satisfy? Now, I am ready for the actual things in the books. In addition to the battle sites for a woman, tents and towers of Joy smelling of death and C-sections, there are other cases that fit aspects of the idea as laid out two posts ago by Ravenous. The obvious one would be Brandon fighting Littlefinger for Catelyn. Afterwards, the loser of the fight rather than the woman gets his navel cut open by a Stark sword in another variation on the theme by our composer/author. Another may be the battle between the dragonknight and Ser Morgil (sounds like a LotR villian name doesn't it?), who was more than likely a representative of Aemon's brother against him in a fight over a woman. Euron and Vic have a sibling fight over Vic's wife. Vic feels he has to kill her over it. If this is in fact a major running theme there is a question that must be asked of it. How did this type of thing happen in the time around the first long night? LmL would probably say that we need to show it happening in the sky, but I am not ready to do that so I am not going to tag him. I may have a clue in one last example, the Dance of Dragons prologue which I think relates to @Crowfood's Daughter family feud stuff. In that chapter, we see a skinchanger fight a father figure instead of a brother type over a wolf in a mind battle. Then he fights a woman in another for her body. Combine the two and you get a psychic battle over a wolf woman with a family member. A running theme in that chapter is that the ones you kill haunt you either by being in your head or watching you through weirwood magic. Apart from being yet another ingenious way to make a literary theme a quality of the universe's magic, that is exactly what is happening to Ned having killed Lyanna through the means of her being in Winterfell's heart tree as Voice las out here.
  12. Unchained

    Lyanna Stark: A Gift from Old Gods

    Not sure what you mean by there not being many tines left after years of fighting. Are you aware antlers are shed every year and new ones are grown?
  13. Unchained

    Daenerys's Fate and the Fire She Must Light to Love

    I really like this! @Lost Melnibonean and @ravenous reader, This is really good stufff. The last thing I read last night was the chapter where Dany reaches Vaes Dothrak, which ends like this The fight between Dany and her brother is covered up with allusions to dragon people, weirwoods, and sacrifices, which is the type of place you would expect to see a reference to a smoky stallion carrying an important soul to the afterlife. It is just like at the dragon hatching where you have a pyre with Dany and Mirri the godswife = greenseer's wife = weirwood tree. I could not figure out what that last line meant, but I think you got it. She is riding to her afterlife as two dragons who are brothers are waiting to be born. The dreaming implies more greenseeing, and of course Bran is an actual greenseer who dreams of home. If either of their dreaming of home helps to end the long night or defeat the Others, then I think it would qualify as a dream of spring. EDIT: I would also connect that chapter to brothers Bran and Rickon being 'born' from the crypts of Winterfell and the their two wolves who are brothers waiting outside. Wolves can fill the same role as smoky stallions.
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