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Jon Snow is a loser

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  1. Jon Snow is a loser

    So how/will that go down in the books?

    Mad Queen Dany will happen in the book, in a different way. Interestingly, I think the turn will be similar to the arguments that many of her fanboys use in trying to defend her action in the show. Many of Dany's fans try to defend her action by pointing the strategic necessity of it. However this argument has be debunked by after episode interview in which the showrunners said that what Dany did was not premeditated but in a fit of rage. She snapped. End of story. Not part of any tactic or strategic thinking. She was just throwing tantrum. Unlike the show, the "mad" in Mad Queen Dany in the books will not mean clinically insane. In the book most likely Dany will commit the same atrocities under a sane & sound mind as part of her calculated strategy after coming to the conclusion at the end of ADWD that being soft doesn't work & she must go full Fire and Blood. The end result is probably the same that she will end up dying and failing in both cases, but unlike in the show, which seems not to have any message behind this & just happen because the plot demand it, in the books the message would be very clear: The world doesn't work this way. GRRM's narrative seems to have the goal of debunking the notion that being ruthless is a necessary trait of a leader. In the world of ASOIAF it seems that being good or being terrible will not save you from horrible death, as can be seen in the cases of Ned & Tywin. However, it is often said by fans that that while being good might cause you to die, it is better for your people and the world in the long term. See how while Ned Stark is dead, people are still fighting for his legacy & his children are setting up to be among some of the major power players. On the other hand Tywin Lannister got his family destroyed & his family's legacy implode. I think GRRM is hammering the same message with Dany that he is doing with Tywin. Both are people who come into conclusion that being nice isn't worth it after some bad experience in their formative years, therefore choosing to play hard ball.The difference between the two is that Tywin's turn happened in the backstory & he is already ruthless when the story started. With Dany we follow her growth & journey & how she turns into the ruthless Mad Queen at the end. GRRM through his writing is trying to show us why this thinking is wrong, therefore he chooses to give bad ending to characters who think that way. This is probably hard to accept for some portion of ASOIAF & GoT fandom, as the books & the show seems to attract people who idolize Machiavellian thinking & like to watch cutthroat power play & think being good or being honorable is being dumb. Just look at the people in this forum who will argue to their last breath to defend Tywin or defending Dany's action in the last episode as something that is out of necessity. Unfortunately for them, ASOIAF is not the series that they think it is. GRRM is a 1970s "make love not war" hippy. If he ever come to end the series, he will not end it with an ending that proves that this kind of thinking is right.
  2. Jon Snow is a loser

    GoT and Feminism: What Happens Now?

    Not going to happen in the show. The showrunners already said in usual after the episode interview that what Dany did was not premeditated but in a fit of rage. She snapped. End of story. Not part of any tactic or strategic thinking. She was just throwing tantrum. However, I do think that the books will take the direction that you suggest here. Mad Queen Dany will happen in the book, but unlike the show "mad" here will not mean clinically insane. In the book most likely Dany will commit the same atrocities under a sane & sound mind as part of her calculated strategy after coming to the conclusion at the end of ADWD that being soft doesn't work & she must go full Fire and Blood. The end result is probably the same that she will end up dying and failing in both cases, but unlike in the show, which seems not to have any message behind this & just happen because the plot demand it, in the books the message would be very clear: The world doesn't work this way. GRRM's narrative seems to have the goal of debunking the notion that being ruthless is a necessary trait of a leader. In the world of ASOIAF it seems that being good or being terrible will not save you from horrible death, as can be seen in the cases of Ned & Tywin. However, it is often said by fans that that while being good might cause you to die, it is better for your people and the world in the long term. See how while Ned Stark is dead, people are still fighting for his legacy & his children are setting up to be among some of the major power players. On the other hand Tywin Lannister got his family destroyed & his family's legacy implode. I think GRRM is hammering the same message with Dany that he is doing with Tywin. Both are people who come into conclusion that being nice isn't worth it after some bad experience in their formative years, therefore choosing to play hard ball.The difference between the two is that Tywin's turn happened in the backstory & he is already ruthless when the story started. With Dany we follow her growth & journey & how she turns into the ruthless Mad Queen at the end. GRRM through his writing is trying to show us why this thinking is wrong, therefore he chooses to give bad ending to characters who think that way. This is probably hard to accept for some portion of ASOIAF & GoT fandom, as the books & the show seems to attract people who idolize Machiavellian thinking & like to watch cutthroat power play & think being good or being honorable is being dumb. Just look at the people in this forum who will argue to their last breath to defend Tywin or defending Dany's action in the last episode as something that is out of necessity. Unfortunately for them, ASOIAF is not the series that they think it is. GRRM is a 1970s "make love not war" hippy. If he ever come to end the series, he will not end it with an ending that proves that this kind of thinking is right.
  3. Jon Snow is a loser

    Protagonist suddenly goes crazy in last chapter of epic

    In the books it is properly built up for a long time that she will be a Mad Queen in the end. In the show they decided to whitewash her character in earlier seasons & then let her turn evil in the end for no good reason & without proper build up. All for the sake of "shocking twist" & "subverting expectation". 
  4. Jon Snow is a loser

    [Spoilers] Episode 805 Discussion

    Difference is that in the books it is properly built up for a long time that she will be a Mad Queen in the end. In the show they decided to whitewash her character in earlier seasons & then let her turn evil in the end for no good reason & without proper build up. All for the sake of "shocking twist" & "subverting expectation".
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