Bronn Stone

So it is the best episode so far of the best show currently on television and it merits an eight. Yet I am the one being unreasonable. Gotcha. This thing is hideously expensive to film. It has far more exterior shots than would be customary in a television show, far more extras than would be customary on a television show. The sets are amazingly expensive and detailed, especially at Castle Black and in Kings Landing. The use of CGI has been judicious and I can only think of one place where it was truly jarring (exterior shots of the Eyrie). So yes, I get miffed at comments that call for MORE spending. The way to get more is NOT to tear down what they've already done. The way to get a bigger budget down the road is for it to become a smash-hit. Nitpicking the thing to death is NOT the way to get something more elaborate down the road. Including the final scene in a big lump which you describe as 'pretty good' destroys any credibility you had. That scene was damned near perfect. And damned expensive. A huge number of extras, a huge number of principals on set, even if they have no dialogue. An actor weaving through a crowd of extras

Whoever said a 10 must be 'perfect'? The scale may be linear and not logarithmic. 'Ten' may just be shorthand for 'higher than the 90th percentile'

SAG is an American organization and has no effect here. Except that they recognize their British and European equivalents. But there is no fixing it, without creating a labor crisis. Unionised/Unionized labor is a fixture in television production. Go outside the union structure and you lose every actor in the show. Unless they are willing to never work again after this job. Plus you lose all of the trades, unless every cameraperson, lighting person, CG person (etc) is willing to never again work on a union project.

The character's name is Jon, not John. You are pissing about details but can't remember the name of one of the leads. While those names sound identical, their derivations are totally different. Making that mistake whilst nitpicking elsewhere seems a bit out of line.

The inability to show great battles is just as much a characteristic of television as it is on stage. In one case it is physical and in the other case budgetary, but both are steadfast and unbreakable rules. You can either accept it or not watch. Frankly, if you can't accept it, probably best you don't watch. List the great large battle scenes in an ongoing television series between actual people (not spaceships or other graphic elements). I get "Philippi on Rome" and that is it. And even that one was horribly fake looking. And I won't even touch the horrific sense of entitlement that says "I spent my 19.95 a month on HBO and somehow I DESERVE" blah blah blah. DESERVE???? Really. wow.... They gave it a budget of $50M for ten episodes. They producers spent it as best they could. That scene with Tyrion, Shae and Bronn cost 1/1000th of what you wanted would have cost. And there aren't 1000 such scenes to be cut. Talk HBO into $200M and I'm sure you can get more. But I am not willing to pay $100/month for HBO just for that. Well, actually I probably am, but there aren't enough of me to make it work. If it gets better ratings and sales, there may be more budget down the road. But since season two is probably going to start shooting next month, you can expect the Battle of the Blackwater to be less than you've imagined. But thankfully since you've promised not to watch, we won't have to tolerate you pissing on our collective Corn Flakes. All I can say is that I got to see a GREAT rendition of the death of Eddard Stark. An incredibly moving scene. If glossing over the Whispering Woods was what I had to give up to get that, I'll take it every time.

Quite the opposite. HBO's intent (or more correctly D&D's intent) is to capture the spirit of the story, as faithfully as possible within the inherent limits of the medium and the realities of modern television. Anyone who thinks otherwise is setting themselves up for endless disappointment. I thought people here understood that, but apparently not.

The boards will just have to muddle on without contributions of this level of quality. While we are at it, we must condemn that worthless good-for-nothing bastard Shakespeare. How dare he tell the story of Henry V without actually showing Agincourt. I feel robbed. If he actually existed and if not for the fact he's been dead for 500+ years, I'd kick him in the trousers.

Robb's ploy with the scout is made that much more effective by his not having shared his plans with the Greatjon or his mother or his other lords. They are as fooled by him as the scout is. That way the scout will report to the Lannisters that not only was the soft child merciful but that he disregarded the advice of older and wiser men. Extremely well done. Books-Robb would not have come up with this trick this early on, but TV-Robb is older (and doesn't have the Blackfish yet).

Note the difference between the term "these" and "this". Previous incarnations have gotten vitriolic.

emphasis mine Fine. You are welcome to judge on any scale you want. But if people are going to compare the show to their own (mostly unreasonable) expectations, throwing a bone like the highlighted comment out now and then would make these threads a lot less vitriolic.

Maybe just maybe some people are interpreting the scale differently from you. Is the scale linear or logarithmic? Is the show being compared to other television shows or some idealized imagined form of the book? Different judges, using different scales get different results. So far, I am convinced that this is the best bit of speculative fiction ever put on television. Frankly, I don't think there has ever been a well-done fantasy series before this one. The best of sci-fi (B5 and BSG, in that order, IMO) aren't as strong as this. The only two shows I have seen that I am absolutely certain are better are The Wire and the old Shogun mini-series. That makes it a ten in my book. Proudly. It isn't perfect, but television is a medium that seldom allows for the perfect. You say this is an eight. I say that means you think that 20% of the stuff on TV is better than this. Then I'd say you are wrong.

You should have quit when you were merely way behind. Now you are approaching 'expressing irredeemably stupid opinions' This thread has a ten point scale. That scale isn't really defined, so each of us is applying our own definitions, all of which are equally valid. I have chosen to define a 'ten' as 'in the top ten percent of all television shows ever produced'. I don't see any logical flaw in giving this episode that rating. So much of it was absolutely brilliant. I can't see how anyone using my definition could rate it below seven. But I don't whine at the 2's, because I know they are using different definitions. As best I can tell, your scale is "on a scale of one to ten, how much does this meet my fanwank expectations". It isn't perfect. In some cases it isn't what I would have done. But they have captured the essence of the story, with the possible exception of the direwolves. They didn't get Renly right. But out of dozens of characters, he's the only one I think they got indefensibly wrong. That is a well over 90% score in my book. I am happy.

That scene took it from an 11 to a 10 in my book. I thought it was otherwise just about perfect.

If Bronn's relationship with Catelyn is ever formalized, we aren't privy to that fact. As far as we know, he is a sellsword who has fallen in with her. It may be she does 'hire' him, but it may be like the freeriders who attach themselves to the Royal Train, he's just going along hoping for a reward. At the bottom of the route up to the Eyrie, she specifically notes that he has not acknowledged her authority, so I suspect the latter is more likely.

This was how I felt about ConJose, back in the day (2002). I eventually decided not to go, despite it being an hour drive. One of the worst decisions I ever made. Figured that out the next year and flew to Toronto and had a great time. Our parties are not to be missed. If you have to drive home after the party, make sure to tell the bartender BEFORE he/she starts feeding you drinks. And welcome to everyone else in the thread!

That is great to hear. I hope you get similar enjoyment on the twists and turns yet to come.

Dinklage is 41 - 18 years older than Tyrion but you are okay with that? In the books, Catelyn estimates that Ser Vardis Egen to be about fifteen years older than Bronn. So if this Bronn is 15 years older than the one in the books (truth is he's closer to 20), that would mean Brendan McCormack should be about sixty. I can't find his actual age, but he's clearly not sixty. Probably a good bit younger than Jerome Flynn.

I thought the episode had the single clunkiest bit of poorly constructed exposition in the series to date. There HAD to be a better way for Littlefinger to remind the audience that Catelyn's family sigil is a 'fish' than pretending to be confused about it. It doesn't make sense in the context of a ploy either. Of course LF knows, the little twit grew up there. And Eddard knows he knows. Genuinely painful on the ears. Could have been much more effective with "A slap in the face of your wife's father - mocking his very sigil". For that and poor direction, I can only go as high as 8. The wolves issue and the hunt issue could have and should have been resolved with a glimpse of the wolves chasing someone into the brush and sound effects handling the rest. If you HEAR the sounds of the hunt in the distance, you haven't spent much money but you make the scene bigger all the same. If you hear the wolves savaging wildlings, you know it happened and you understand later when Osha is so damned afraid of the things.

Shooting in rain is expensive and many times more complicated, especially if you have to make it artificially. That decision was almost certainly budgetary. Both Robert and Cersei are sufficiently politicians that they can put on their friendly public faces. That scene starts out with them doing exactly that. Only as it progresses do we get a bit of truth and the friendliness fades. I thought it was well done. I agree with your objection about LF knowing about Varys' visitor IF he knows the whole story. LF only says that Varys had a foreign visitor, leaving it open whether or not he knew who it was or why they were meeting. If all LF knows is "Varys met with a fat foreigner", then I am fine with it AND it explains why LF mentioned it - he is probing for more info, or at least a reaction (which he gets). But if LF knew "Varys met with Illyrio Mopatis, Magister of Pentos and didn't mention it to the King or Small Council", then I'd agree. But I really think it is the former.

Having read those books between 50 and 100 times each, I have a pretty good idea what is coming. I don't mind the big battles at all. Strategy and planning are interesting. It is only sword-banging that leaves me yawning. I'd rather gouge my eyes out than try to watch 300 again. But I can watch I, Claudius over and over again. Because it is better.

7. Too heavy on combat. Tournament got short-shrifted. Trip to Eyrie far too rushed.

Yipes. Just yipes. No more.

straight from the books - From AGOT

In the books, the tournament takes place over two days. In the adaptation, the tournament crosses two episodes. I kinda wish that HBO-GO had set #5 as their insta-watch. Because a lot of the action payoff from Ep. 4 is coming in #5.

Randyll Tarly. Harsh, but fair. It is known.