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TheThreeEyedCow

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  1. But this is the problem with Feudalism. There's no certainty that any plan will work. And I think that this thread has already thought about the succession more than Robert would of. I think Robert tried to do the right thing. But doing the right thing requires a lot of work and Robert didn't take any joy from it. You just have to consider Dany's inner monologue to see how much a ruler needs to consider, and ruminate on things. Robert thought he could sort both of his brothers out with castles and titles of their own. No doubt expecting them to be pleased. And when he discovered that Stannis was dissatisfied, he would of shrugged and switched his attention elsewhere. We see early on in aGoT, when there's an incident with the direwolves, that Robert is a pretty terrible adjudicator. His son was hurt, his wife was wroth and his best friend was beside himself. But Robert just wanted to slink off. It's not the type of fighting that he's good at. I would of given Stannis S.E. He held it against the Reach and displayed some god-tier stalwartness. And I'd have him hold D.S in Joff's name, until the boy became a man in his own right or until a new Lord of the Trident could be found. Stannis won a key victory against the I.B in their own waters. You don't have to like Stannis to see that his brother relied on him in both campaigns. So I'd give Stannis S.E and have him hold DS for a time. But I suspect that this is already too complicated for Robert. He'd have the matter settled in a few minutes. He wasn't one for contemplation. He was generous.... And that's not a good mix. You have to know who to be open-handed with and when, otherwise it's just a waste. I don't think Robert was stupid. But ruling clearly wasn't for him. He almost says as much to Ned. Giving DS to Stannis was actually generous it's just tragic that Stannis was too eager to see the slight and not the huge honour. As for Renly, he needed to make something of himself. I think Robert inadvertently spoiled him. But I am a Mannis man. So I'd give him the whole frickin 7k.
  2. Robert is (was) a physically impressive man. But mentally, there isn't much going on there. A man of simple truths and simple needs. He had a certain appeal, and the right blood. Him becoming king was an agreeable thing for the victorious rebels. But there was no great meeting of minds to decide exactly who would be the best at being a king. Monarchy doesn't work like that. Robert's refusal of the IT could of lead to further bloodshed as all manner of lords would declare for themselves. For the sake of the realm, he had to put his arse in that spiky chair. Small note? He overturned a three hundred year old dynasty. Historians tend to love that stuff. So you're just ignoring the machinations of LF?
  3. I never said nor would I ever say that Theon did nothing to help. What I am saying is that the Washerwomen were the real driving force behind it. Theon helped. But honestly, do you see it as an act of heroism? For me, he didn't have a huge choice. Staying at WF would of been a death sentence for him. He had nothing to lose IMO. I feel as if it's impossible to put that point across; That it is not one extreme or the other. If The Boltons were treating him kindly, I don't think Theon would of done a damn thing. That is to say, he didn't have a huge desire to protect an innocent person. He wanted to save his own skin. Quite literally.
  4. ......I was being playful, and mayhaps I was too dry. Of course, I'd want my skin, my legs, the use of my eyes and ears. I'd want to be able to taste the wine and feel the sun on my face. But we're having a conversation re Sansa wedding Jon. I think that Sansa Stark has a plethora of potential suitors. Once she's free to be herself again, that is. I think that if she does pick someone, she'll pick someone she can rebuild the Stark family with. That's just imo.
  5. If I came back from the dead, it's the first thing I'd check. I saw the Bran one a little while ago. It was rough. I think this is a bit different though.
  6. This pot is empty though; you are stirring thin air. At least wait for the guy to stop being dead before you try to marry him off. I mean, yeah he should come back. But we don't know who or what he'll actually be/become. If he comes back in a similar fashion to LS or Beric then I don't think anyone will want to marry him. Like, will his blood flow? Will he even be able to get an erection? Will he even be compatible with other humans? Will he become too fearsome after being a wolf for X amount of time? Will he even be a Targaryen? There's too big a question mark over Jon's head right now.
  7. And that just wouldn't be the Stannis that we all know and love, would it? As for George, I swear... he must of spent his entire life having his heart broken. And now he's an expert at it.
  8. Well I'm sorry but I flatly disagree. I don't see any real evidence that he's a better man. Have you read the tWow Stannis chapter? From my perspective, he fell off a wall. Escaping the clutches of his captors. Crushing Jeyne as he landed. It was the washerwomen that sacrificed everything to save Jeyne. He spends nearly all of his time at WF feeling sorry for himself. And right at the end there, he's convinced by the washerwomen that he should help. I need him to die. Preferably doing something unselfish. Let me make something clear in case I haven't already. For me, killing two innocent boys, cutting off their heads and sticking them on a wall is punishable by death. I don't agree with the torture. I didn't want him tortured in the first place. I don't want him tortured any further. Ramsey's ways are cruel and only serve his own twisted sense of pleasure. Theon got a taste of what countless other people have almost certainly endured. There's nothing special or unique about his particular suffering. So what I am saying is that Theon sort of died. The Theon we knew, anyway. I care. And I think George will care too. I suppose there is something of an assumption on my part. I just can't see how after first betraying Stark, then murdering those boys, then leading his comrades out of Moat Calin to be flayed alive, then betraying his new masters (the Boltons) could leave him anywhere but stuck as being The Turncloak. The Iron Born are already loathed. It's default. But Theon is special because he was raised by the Ned. This is common knowledge. Theon betrayed Rob. Common knowledge. Theon betrayed the IB at MC. Common knowledge. He's just fled WF with Jeyne. Common knowledge. What friend does Theon have left to him? And how many enemies? He is alone and singled out in a place and at a time where mutual beneficial relations are necessary to survival. The lone wolf dies but the pack survives. Theon is something of a lone wolf, no? So I feel confident in this assumption. The only person on Planetos that could save Theon, is Bran. But that's a whole different subject.
  9. It does. I just draw my own lines rather than let the accumulative ambiguity of it all crush me. Yep. And I actually really like him. So it sucks that he's basically cursed. What else could he of done?
  10. Yep. I really like this. And I completely agree with the bolded part. I think my earlier post caused some confusion. Which is completely understandable. I fully accept that Theon technically saved those Stark boys; By driving them out and scattering them, they avoided a much crueller fate. Where I differ from other readers is that I actually give a shit about those poor lads who had their heads cut off and stuck on a wall. And for what? Theon's pride. I won't forgive it, personally. And then, as you said in the last part of your post, Theon will do something. And maybe then I can feel differently about him. But right now, I don't see that much change in him. It was the washerwomen that saved that girl(Jeyne). Imo.
  11. IMO, yes. I understand what you are poking at but it wasn't as if some hedge knight killed Renly in a battle. Or a sellsword or a treacherous camp follower. Imo, Stannis participated in dark magic for the explicit purposes of killing his brother. And it's nothing to Mel. She's not related to Renly. She's a shadow binder doing her job for her king.
  12. Clearly, you are a more forgiving soul than I could ever be. Let's not trip ourselves up, here. I did say in my original post that I didn't believe he would be executed. So I am not saying GRRM will definitively have him punished (I agree that Ramsey kind of did that already). What I am saying is that thus far, Theon hasn't really changed. He's just weakened. In order to complete his arc, it is my opinion that he has to make a real sacrifice, instead of sacrificing others for his gain. And I don't believe he rescued (f)Arya. This is clearly to work of Mance's washerwomen. Theon is merely a dog who bit his cruel master, so to speak. He had every reason to turn on Bolton and make an escape. It just isn't an act of heroism. And so it has almost no redeeming aspects to it. For me. For one moment, imagine you are a Northman. A Northman who wants justice. Would you allow him to live. Could you? The one thing that every northman can agree on, from Deepwood Motte to White Harbour. A sentiment that would unite all houses, is that Theon Greyjoy must die. The only reason he breaths, is the fact Stannis has a plan for him. Elsewise, he'd be given to the tree, or burned alive. Or he wouldn't even get an execution because the mob of mountain men would tear him apart. You know, like wolves do. Actually, he's betrayed everybody by this point. Stark and their allies, Bolton, and with the stunt he helped pull off at Motte Calin, the IB too. There isn't a suitable punishment for his collective crimes imo. I don't hate Theon. He makes a poor villain. I sort of pity him. As I do Viserys and to some extent Tyrion. These are men who are too wrapped up in perceived slights. So much so that the innocent are made to suffer. So I see him as someone who still has a way to go. I like the idea that Ramsey's bitches will sort of like Theon. He fed them, slept with them. I love the mental imagery of Ramsey trying to use the dogs against him (Theon) and they disobey their master. It would highlight how ruling with tyranny makes your cause weak and susceptible to insurrection. So I think there's a lot of story left for Theon to truly redeem himself. I just don't think it's happened yet. The idea he could take credit for the rescuing of (f)Arya is a bit of a joke. And the idea that his torture/punishment could make him a better man is also very questionable imo. What would that say about humanity if the answer to violence was more violence?
  13. I'm not so sure. He quite literally butchered innocent children. Not for his own survival. He could of taken the silver and some hostages and left WF behind. He did it for greed. He did it because he thought he had a right. And sadly, Theon hasn't really stopped being Theon imo. When he's being confronted by Mance's washerwomen, he daydreams to himself that he'd rape one of them. And.... ...and we the reader know that it was those poor washerwomen that made the sacrifice to get (f)Arya out. NOT Theon. The murder of children is right up there. It's basically the worst thing a person can do. Period. The north is populated by men who hold the belief that when the winter comes, the lives of old men are forfeit. It is the children that must be kept safe. Theon is still thinking only of himself... I'll wager that GRRM kills off every character that hurt/killed a child by series end. I feel very certain.
  14. I think Jeyne might get to stay as Arya. Elsewise the Northmen will feel duped for making a big sacrifice to save what they thought was Arya. And it would mean that the real Arya wouldn't have to return to the nobility. She could go on being no-one, if she prefers it. It could be a well kept secret. But that's just a guess. I mean, nobody really cares about a Jeyne Poole. Her story is sad. And she deserves justice. But a life as Arya Stark would be a better reward considering she had to take the brunt of impersonating her. I suppose I see her as earning her place at WF. Maybe at her best friend's (Sansa's) side. I think Theon has to die. It would be (for me) the only way he could redeem himself. And I don't mean he should be executed. I think he should make the ultimate sacrifice himself. And not because he owes the Starks. But because he needs to qualify. He needs to show the reader that he isn't the same narcissistic, entitled brat that he starts out as.
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