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Vaegon the dragonless

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About Vaegon the dragonless

  • Birthday February 28

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  1. Was it even really a alliance ? I get that people see it that way but to me it just does not look like a real alliance. Sure marrying into a family technically means that you are allied, but that did not stop the Frey's to go to the Stark when they were married to the Lannister's, so the idea that just by being married to a house you where bound to hit completely is not exactly true (but maybe mostly). But even then, when you look a it, before the death of half the Starks, they are to be allied with the Tully's and the Baratheon's in mariaged and that is all. The Arryn are only in the picture du to personnal affinity between the Jon, Ned and Robert. Ned is not suppose to inherit and Jon is already quit old, we dont know how the relations where with Jon's heir but most likely not that close, so the Arryn's would be out (since Jon only marries Lysa after the events in King's Landing). So in reality it is more of a STB alliance originaly, but then again, the Tully's and Baratheon are not suppose to have any link between the two of them, exept that they are both "allied" with the Stark's. So it is really just after the fact that the STAB alliance seems to happen, you know when Jon refuse to kill both Ned and Robert because the paranoid tyran on the thrones decided that killing (ok technically "executing") on of is main lords and heir was not enougth, and that he should also have the next in line and the fiance of the girl is son kidnapped who also happen to be one of the main lords of the realm. At that point a SAB alliance is de facto created, only latter the Tully are added by a double mariage. Only the ineptitude of the ruling king created the alliance, it was just a bunch of mariage before that, sure the mariages could be dangerous but since they could have been balanced by a Lannister/Targaryen/Martell bloc with the Tully's actually being in both bloc's well all of a sudden it is no longuer a major threat. So to answer the question, I dont even think the STAB alliance was even a real thing until the war started, so it was not benevolent or malicious, and marriage or not the mad king would have add most of the realm against him anyway.
  2. I'm pretty sure this is just another Stark hate thread, or at least a attempt to one but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. The first part of your first sentence is the important part here. He is a deserter, penalty for deserting is death, it does not matter the reason, he deserted there for he forfeited the rigth to life in this universe. Furthermore Ned action are backed by Benjen who does say that somethong is going on past the Wall but he does not know what. Saying that Ned should have listen to a man basically pleading for is life and most likely to say anything to save it is just stupid (and from what I remember it is not how we are presented with the fact in the books but in the Show). So Ned was in is full rigth and any other lord would have done the same. Again the first part is important, Jon is the Lord commander of the nigth watch, wich means he has the rigth of life and death over every member of the watch, including Slynt. Slynt was not sent on a suicide mission, tho you could argue that Thorne was, he was given command of a outpost, so a place of leadership for a guy that is been in the watch for what ? A couple of months ? So far from a suicide mission he give Slynt a commanding role that he rudely and publicly refused. Jon gived him a chance to back off and go but he refused, this public disobedience in a military order is treason and their for is punished by death. Sure not alway and some leanience is most of the time given but here two things go against Slynt, first Jon is knew, young and somewhat contested, if he backs down at the first conflict is leadership is as good as dead so harsh punishement send the message that he migth be young but he is not a pushover, and add to that the fact that Slynt is one of the reason is father is dead, well that is just a bonus. So Slynt execution is justified by the laws of the watch, sure it is a harsh and to the letter interpretation of them but still it is justified. I will give that one to you, what Arya does is unjust and unwarrented, sure Daeron is a dick and a deserter but he is out of Westeros so the laws of Westeros dont apply. His story is tragic, but only if it is true, after all we only have is version, and im not sure he would just go "Yeah I tried to rape the daugther of a lord" to people if that was the truth, im inclined to believe him but it is not a absolute truth, and the way he then treats Sam and Aemon is very dickish, but again not to the point of deserving death. But we are talking about Arya, I dont think they're is a more broken character in the series then her, she at the age of 11 seen as much murder and rape then a WW2 red army veteran, she is going to be completely fucked up. Since she as been seperated from her family murder has been her most effective tool to survive, so it would be her go to reaction if somebody wronged her or the last family she has. So Yeah Daeron's murder was that, a murder but I can see why she did it. So to recap, 1 was justified and a normal legal action, 2 was a harsh but still legal and logical action and 3 was a murder for sure but from a rogue completely traumatised little girl who as seen more shit that (I hope) we will ever see in our life times. Yeah hard disagree on the deserved fall, especially since 2 and 3 are consequence of that fall more then causes of them. Slynt would be at the watch if he sided with Ned and even if he ended at the Wall Jon would have anything against him making it so is execution would be a harder choise for him, and Arya would even be in Braavos if her family had not been murdered, her forced to flee and go thrue a actual war zone in hopes to find her family only to find them the moment they are being massacred. If anything the Stark becoming more and more ruthless and savage is a consequence of they're fall, they played honorably and by the rules, and they got destroyed, but now Winter is Coming and the Starks come with it.
  3. I agree with the first part but I just think that Laenor and Rhaenyra just ended agreeing that they would be married in the eyes of the realm but that they could each have their own love life seperated. With the understanding that any child of Rhaenyra would be declared a son of Laenor, and Laenor "could not possibly be gay" because he had kids. They just lucked out that all the kids looked like their dad.
  4. The main problem is that even if to everyone Rhaenyra's 3 eldest are bastard, well both the King (and grandfather) and her husband declared them true born. And they have Dragons to back it up. So in the eyes of the law they are true born sons of Laenor and Rhaenyra.
  5. Well in Tywin's mind he would have to demonstrate some power at least by marching army's near or in the Riverlands, at the same time asking Robert to deal with this or the return of all the loans would make sure Tyrion was returned quickly. The army would be a show of force proving that the Lannister would go to war even for the less respected of them all, but he would not break the Kings peace. Because I completely agree taht breaking the Kings peace by attacking the Riverlands is utterly stupid since both the North and Vale would likely come to aid, Tywin was lucky that Robert die and Lysa was completely out of her mind because he would have been crushed other wise.
  6. For me that question depends on 2 thing, status and geography. If Im anything other then a Lord I would simply follow my liege, but Im assuming that question is asked has if we were lords. And that is where geography comes into play, no sense of being a greens supporter if your are a Northern or Valemen lord since those region were united behind the blacks and being the one outlier is never a good idea. Kind of the same for the Westerlands but for the greens, a bit more wiggle room if you're lands are on the edge of the region but not exactly easy to pull off. In the end it would depend on family, friends and neighbours choises since for me both claim are equal, Rhaenyra is the chosen heir and groomed to be, her first 3 sons are most likely bastards but her last 2 have Targaryen blood on both sides. Aegon has tradition and the great council for him. Both are not great or horrible (at least before the music started and Dragon danced). Not joining side or adopting the the Swann tactic of sending sons to both side would be the best choice for me but both are also dangerous.
  7. It could be that Tywin was just not sure of the loyalty of the men from the Crownlands and King's Landing in particular, the Lannister had just brutally sacked the city not long ago after all, he then just never bothered to call them back, since they added the benefit of showing the power of house Lannister. And for Robert he has the Gold Cloaks, a force of 2 000 men including at least a few knights and they are supposed to be loyal directly to him, sure they are disloyal in Agot but that does seem that it is because the succession is not clear, I would assume that the Gold Cloaks were kingmen's. And just to add a bit, Renly seems to have a hundred men in King's Landing, it would most likely not just is own guards but it would seem that any one of importance has its own retinue even in the capital.
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