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Rhae_Valarie

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  1. Rhae_Valarie

    Mourning Dany

    Thanks for sharing your opinion so politely! Your insights are helping me come to terms with this, so thank you very much!
  2. Rhae_Valarie

    Mourning Dany

    Another thought... the show runners specifically said that if Dany hadn’t been put through those specific circumstances she probably wouldn’t have snapped. Since it seems unlikely that those exact events will happen in the book, could this be the show runners attempt at covering themselves in case Dany’s arc turns out differently in the books? Or is it wishful thinking on my part?
  3. Rhae_Valarie

    Mourning Dany

    Just to clarify, I think that Dany’s executions of people like the Tarleys or even Mirri are comparable to Ned’s execution of the NW deserter, Robb’s of Karstark, and Jon’s of the traitors in the NW, especially Ollie. They were all for treason, Dany just uses dragon fire. her vengeance on the masters is different, absolutely. It’s a horrific action done in revenge for even more horrific crimes, much like Sansa and Arya’s revenges. My point is that even Dany’s most extreme actions aren’t even that extreme compared to other “heroes”. perhaps you’re right in that Sansa and Arya’s actions were out of character. Maybe the real problem with the show is that they’ve allowed our heroes to indulge in such violence in order to maintain spectacle, that to set Dany apart they had to make such a drastic jump that it feels out of character for some viewers. A lot to think about but thanks for your feedback!
  4. Rhae_Valarie

    Mourning Dany

    For me, I could see that her mind was fragile and the temptation was there but I thought she would rise above. In every other instance, she ultimately did what was right. She abandoned her quest for the throne to save the living. She forgave Jaime and Gendry even though she could have taken out her frustrations on them, due to their pasts. She never lashed out at Sansa, despite her attempts to undermine her authority. She forgave Tyrion over and over. When she did defy her advisors, it was never any worse than what other characters have done. By burning the Tarleys and even Mirri Max Duur she was well within her rights as queen to execute those guilty of treason. When Jon, Robb, and Ned do it with a long sword no one blinks, but I keep seeing people using her executions as foreshadowing of her madness. Why, just because it’s fire and not a noose or sword? Even her more extreme actions, like crucifying the masters, aren’t worse than Arya’s Frey pies/massacre at the twins or Sansa feeding Ramsay to his hounds. But we aren’t expected to question their sanity. Every other time that Dany’s lost everything and had her back against the wall she’s prevailed. She’s never given into madness or done anything that can’t be justified. I wasn’t surprised by this twist, because they teased it so much, but I still don’t feel it fits her character development.
  5. Rhae_Valarie

    Mourning Dany

    I agree that if they are committed to depicting her as truly mad, the surrender was necessary. However, I wonder if the books won’t take a more nuanced view of her psychology. For instance, if she does burn KL will it be because she snapped, as in the show, or will it be for morally questionable strategic reasons? Personally I hope for something a little bit ambiguous. A situation in which it could have been a purely cathartic emotional reaction or it could have been strategic, and the readers are left with the uncomfortable uncertainty of whether Dany killed millions because she wanted to or because she needed to.
  6. Rhae_Valarie

    Mourning Dany

    Yes! And it frustrates me so much that they chose to use her relationship with Jon as the thing that pushed her over the edge... not even Missandei or Jorah, just Jon. I feel like it is such a disservice to Dany’s character.
  7. Rhae_Valarie

    Mourning Dany

    I do think part of it is the way they chose to depict the act, so I have some hope it won’t be so unforgivable in the books, if it happens. The kicker in the show is that it happens after the city surrenders. If KL won’t surrender in the books, perhaps it could be portrayed as Dany having to make some sort of nuclear choice? Like, raze one city and end the war in a day, which will save millions of lives or let the war keep going and kill millions more. I could live with something like that because it keeps Dany’s moral complexity.
  8. Rhae_Valarie

    Mourning Dany

    I never expected for Dany to be mild, exactly. But I think there are examples of Targs that were wonderful and terrible, complex contradictions. Then there were some that crossed the line to purely villainous, like Viserys or Aerys. I thought Dany would be the former, not the latter. I thought she would do terrible but necessary things, like many of the other characters have. I never thought she would create carnage that has no strategic value or moral justification. She’s always had a violent, ruthless streak that should make anyone uncomfortable at times. That’s what made her such a compelling character to me. But I never pictured her arc as a complete descent into madness. just curious, can you picture any scenario in which Dany’s burning of KL is more morally grey than appears in the show? For instance, could it be compared to Aegon the conqueror’s burning of Harrenhall or do you think the civilian population puts them in different categories?
  9. Rhae_Valarie

    Mourning Dany

    I know a lot of people expected the Mad Daenerys twist but personally I was never one of them and this last episode has left me devastated, to say the least. I find myself desperately hoping that this is contrived for the purposes of the show and won’t come to pass in the books, but I have my doubts. Endings to something you love are always hard, but the ruination of one of my favorite characters in all of literature blindsided me. what are your thoughts on Dany’s future and how do you feel about this development?
  10. Rhae_Valarie

    Known Westerosi in Essos?

    So I thought it might be cool to create a list of all the Westerosi that have spent time or lived in Essos. I think we can include characters like the Sailor’s Wife and her daughter who are heavily implied to be Westerosi even though it is never explicitly stated. I’d also like to include characters whose fate is ambiguous but could have made it to Essos, like Elissa Farman. Off the top of my head there’s: Daenerys Targaryen Viserys Targaryen Jorah Mormont Tyrion Lannister The Sailor’s Wife and her daughter Lanna Elissa Farman Gerion Lannister Euron Greyjoy Arya Stark I’m sure there’s many more. Any thoughts?
  11. Rhae_Valarie

    Casting the Characters Who've Been Cut

    I've always imagined Astrid Berges Frisbey as Ashara Dayne. I think Freida Pinto would be an amazing Arianne, as well.
  12. Rhae_Valarie

    [SPOILERS thru S7] Where did the show go wrong?

    I don't think book readers who watch the show are disappointed because they have expectations that are too high to ever be met. Most of the comments on this thread have acknowledged that the first four seasons were masterfully adapted, and have merely commented on what has changed in quality. No one is saying the show needs to be exactly like the books or their vision of the books. I think it's okay for fans to expect the story they invest in to maintain a certain quality and make sense. Unfortunately so many things in the last season did not. At the end of the day, I feel like this is due to the show outpacing the books, as many have said. D&D's job went from adapting an incredible story to having to complete it themselves. They are sprinting to the finish, and though I think the product would be better if they slowed down a little, I understand why certain choices are being made. However, as others have said, so much of what happened last season was just bad writing. The fact that the main characters were sailing/flying/riding all over the continent of Westeros before the WW could make it a few miles from Hardhome to the Wall is ridiculous. I remember reading the plot leak that came out a year before the season aired and I honestly laughed because I thought it had to be fake, there was no way, it just made no sense. And yet it was true. The more I think about this season the more disappointed I get. I can't help but regard pretty much everything after season 4 as beautifully rendered fan fiction. I honestly don't know if I'll even really care about the final season, but we'll see. To repeat, it isn't that they've strayed in content that bothers me, but that they have severely degraded in quality. If the show had continued to do its own thing and do it well, I wouldn't be disappointed. Different media calls for different choices. Not everything that works in a book will work in a show. But whatever version of the story they choose to present, it has to at least be logical. And the last season was not.
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