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Everything posted by Crona

  1. We are just going to have to disagree here, I have just a different interpretation of things. I think George had put that line with Tristan Rivers there for the readers to understand Illyrio's movements (and his own). Maybe in AGOT, he did not have all of the plans fleshed out, but by ADWD he definitely wanted us to think this was Illyrio's and Drogo's deal. In AGOT, maybe he was toying with a different idea for Drogo but by ADWD, it appears (to me) the deal between them was 50k dothraki. Your interpretation is that Illyrio lied to the Golden Company and had given Dany (and 3 dragons eggs) for 10k dothraki. If the deal was to give Viserys 10k dothraki, why didn't he give it to Viserys? And when the Golden Company realize this, they would just have to deal with it. This is also for a war that he wants to crown Aegon/Viserys.
  2. I remember now, that makes sense! Illyrio gets a lot of flack but its pretty hard to guess what people do next.
  3. Well then why was the Golden Company expecting 50k dothraki? Was Illyrio planning on the Golden Company to not notice they were short a significant amount of dothraki (Strickland does not seem to be the type to agree on less). There was a deal struck between Drogo and Illyrio. For Drogo, he got an Valyrian wife for his prophecy and for Illyrio, he was promised an army. It could be that Drogo was not intending on fullfilling his end of the bargain, however that was changed when they sent the poisoner. That's the whole issue. Illyrio makes these deals but he underestimates them at every turn. He believes Viserys would agree to allow Aegon to be king because he views Viserys as pathetic and would jump at the chance to go home again. Not knowing how truly mad Viserys was. He did not think Dany would be important, but she ends up hatching dragons. Illyio learns of this, he sends ships to her and bring her back to Pentos. But instead she goes to Slaver's Bay. Now, for some reason he thought Dany would be in Volantis, but she is not. Only Aegon shows up.
  4. I think we are talking about two different things, I am talking about control of the Dothraki. Viserys did not have power over the Dothraki. We do know part of the deal was that Drogo was going to give Illyrio 50k Dothraki screamers, but he only had about 40k or so (it was definitely lower than 50k), he was probably planning to get more dothraki. Which Illyrio in turn was planning to give to Viserys to take command of. So it doesn't necessarily mean Drogo was going to cross the Narrow Sea. When Dany was almost poisoned and Drogo decided to go to the Narrow Sea, this effectively made Viserys useless (although he was dead already). I think you are putting too much importance on Viserys and Dany (Dany did not have any dragons at this point). At the end of the day, Illyrio could simply tell them either they can join them or get lost in Essos and Viserys and Dany would have nothing. If Viserys was really important then Illyrio would have been more adamant for Viserys to stay with him after the marriage. Illyrio did have plans, he said that his plan took years that Viserys messed up. Although, he had a difficult guessing what they would do next. I mean how is he supposed to know that Viserys would be stupid enough to threaten Dany in front of Drogo.
  5. I do not recall this. From the reading, he does not have any "seniority" over Dany or really anyone in the Dothraki. Remember when he tried to attack Dany, one of the Dothraki had grabbed him and asked if Dany wanted to kill him. They had him sit with the old women and men etc...He only sat sometimes in a seat of honor just because he was Dany's brother. Drogo made the deal with Illyrio. That is why he gave Illyrio presents and was following the orders of Illyrio...when he married Dany, Viserys was supposed to stay with Illryio till Drogo and Dany come back from Vaes Dothrak. At the time, Illryio wanted to delay.. He doesn't necessarily need Viserys, he does have Jon Connington the former hand that confirms who he is. He would also have Dany (she is already married to Drogo and I doubt Viserys would be able to take her from Drogo).
  6. That's what I got from the text too: Which plan? The fat man’s plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns? First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki screamers at his back. Then the Beggar King was dead, and it was to be the sister, a pliable young child queen who was on her way to Pentos with three new-hatched dragons. Instead the girl turns up on Slaver's Bay and leaves a string of burning cities in her wake, and the fat man decides we should meet her by Volantis. Now that plan is in ruins as well. I have had enough of Illyrio’s plans. Robert Baratheon won the Iron Throne without the benefit of dragons. We can do the same. Viserys has no allies, not even the Dothraki were his after the wedding. They do not need an elaborate plot to get rid of Viserys, either he agrees to go to Westeros under the Targaryen banner or he stays in Essos as the Beggar King.
  7. I do have an alternate suggestion, that this means Dorne, Illyrio, Braavos and Tyrosh are in an alliance against the Iron Throne. This means Varys was actually working for Dorne in KL.
  8. I completely agree, I think Ashara had gone back to KL and smuggled Aegon out with the help of Varys. I believe in that House of the Undying vision, Dany is seeing from Ashara's point of view (Barristan remarks that Dany's eyes are like Ashara's, I know it doesn't necessarily connect but I think its a subtle clue about that scene). The Tower of Joy may be inspired by Joyous Gard in Arthurian legend, Lancelot (King Arthur's best knight ever and I think best friend?) had an affair with the queen Guinevere that was driving him nuts and they had run off to this tower. I believe even Lancelot had died was buried there. While I don't think Arthur is Jon's father, could it be that Arthur was the father of Rhaenys? Elia did have Rhaenys the same year she was married to Rhaegar. Could it be that Ned had promised to keep this a secret? Maybe Arthur killed himself because he felt guilt? He could be Aegon's father as well, and if he is and he knows Aegon is alive then yes I can also see why the Daynes would be happy with Ned keeping the secret. But Aegon looks like Rhaegar lol Yea, I agree he could have killed him in the heat of the moment. It just doesn't seem to fit completely in for me. Ned just gets really sad when talking about his death, I feel like his death was more tragic. Of course it could just be nothing and he really was killed by some kind of surprise attack. I also agree with the wording, it seems to be Howland that was one that killed him or his actions that caused the fight to stop.
  9. The more I think about it, the less it makes sense that they fought. The Kingsguard would use their tower if they were outnumbered. Arthur would probably have a helm, which usually stops darts. I don't think Ned would have killed someone dishonorably either. I think they did talk, I always remember in this scene that Arthur had a sad smile, and I always thought it was a hint to something.
  10. I just imagine Howland Reed as Swamp-Man shootings nets out like Spider-Man. I guess your scenario could work and actually there is a lot of ways Arthur could be killed dishonorably. However, another issue I do have is, do you think Ned would kill someone that was distracted or incapacitated? Its hard for me to think Ned would kill someone that was defenseless during a fight. Do I think Howland would kill someone dishonorably? Yes I do think he would, but I am not sure about Ned. The show had it depicted as Howland stabbing him from the back, so maybe that's correct. I am open to all kinds of explanations and I find the theory that they talked interesting. From my perspective, Arthur is a Targaryen loyalist, so he would want to keep living to help Vis/Jon/Aegon and continue Rhaegar's goals. I was thinking that perhaps Howland may have told something to Arthur and he committed suicide, but what could that be? Or perhaps they had done a negotiation, but I don't see any scenario, where Arthur has to die as a deal. He would want to stay alive to protect those kids. Maybe Howland had threatened to reveal something about Arthur.
  11. I just remember before the show ended, a lot of posters believed the ENTIRE story was about either Jon or Dany and suggesting different was heavily criticized. Dorne, Aegon, Bran, and Ironborn being downplayed. When the finale came out, (and it was George's idea), a lot of this died down lol.
  12. After thinking this over, I think the lemon tree significance means there was a conspiracy between Dorne, Braavos and Tyrosh. Dany unrolled the parchment and examined it again. Braavos. This was done in Braavos, while we were living in the house with the red door. Why did that make her feel so strange? When presented with the pact, she says the pact was made when they were both at the house with the red door. Dany and Vis left the house with the red door when she was 5. Doran wrote the letter to Quentyn that he will rule Dorne when Arianne was 14 years old (Viserys is the same age, and Dany would have been 6 when this letter was written, which was after they had been kicked out of the house with the red door). After they left the house with the red door they went to: They had wandered since then, from Braavos to Myr, from Myr to Tyrosh, and on to Qohor and Volantis and Lys, never staying long in any one place. Her brother would not allow it. The Usurper's hired knives were close behind them, he insisted, though Dany had never seen one. At first the magisters and archons and merchant princes were pleased to welcome the last Targaryens to their homes and tables, but as the years passed Doran wanted to send Arianne to Tyrosh to meet Viserys in secret, this didn't go through but there was a green haired girl in the water gardens (did someone else go instead?): "That green-haired girl was the Archon's daughter. I was to have sent you to Tyrosh in her place. You would have served the Archon as a cupbearer and met with your betrothed in secret, but your mother threatened to harm herself if I stole another of her children, and I . . . I could not do that to her." The brother of the Archon did attend Dany's wedding Illyrio whispered to them. "Those three are Drogo's bloodriders, there," he said. "By the pillar is Khal Moro, with his son Rhogoro. The man with the green beard is brother to the Archon of Tyrosh, and the man behind him is Ser Jorah Mormont." What did Doran give or promise to Braavos and Tyrosh?
  13. I think all theories about Arthur Dayne seem kind of silly, I can't really figure out what happened there and none of the theories sounds fitting.
  14. Dawn can cut through things even at rest, he does not even need to swing it. Are you saying the net has stronger material than Dawn? If so, why didn't the Reeds conquer all of the North if its stronger than swords. And Dawn is pretty much a lightsaber, it even lights up.
  15. A very popular theory about how Howland Reed had saved Ned is that Howland trapped Arthur with a net.... But I don't understand how this would work? Arthur had Dawn, a sharp sword in his hands...why wouldn't he just cut through the net? When Dawn is resting on Jaime's shoulder, it is cutting through and Jaime is bleeding. When the net wraps around the sword, wouldn't it cut through? What am I missing? Did Arthur just get surprised and drop his sword? I know the net gets tangled, but I have yet to see it really work on someone who has a blade in hand. Just curious on why its so popular. My own favorite theory is the dart one. Ned: - he would have killed me but for Howland Reed Bran: What did Howland do? Ned: (sadly) He shot him with a poison dart from the bushes
  16. I never looked into the Lemongate stuff, so I have no skin it. But in regards to Dany living with Sealord of Braavos, what would be the point of hiding it? The quote posted by @Frey family reunion, when was that quote made? Q: Dany remembers a lemon tree outside the house with the red door in Braavos, but citrus trees shouldn’t really grow in Braavos’ cold, foggy climate. Is this discrepancy significant? Does it point to future revelations about Dany’s past? Thank you so much. GRRM: Very perceptive of you. Yes, it does point to … well, that would be telling. Was that before ADWD? If so, then he’s probably hiding Arianne and Viserys marriage pact. If that quote is after ADWD then I have no idea why he would hide that. I mean he could also just say those climate limitations are not found in the Sealord of Braavos estate.
  17. 100% agree this story is a game between the author and reader. Btw very good eye! It didn’t occur to me that Lady Stoneheart mirrors Lemore, but it goes well with what I think happened (Lemore’s child was killed instead of Elia’s, just my personal theory). I think this quote really goes the Stoneheart mirroring: Lemore had changed out of her septa's robes into garb more befitting the wife or daughter of a prosperous merchant. Tyrion watched her closely. He had sniffed out the truth beneath the dyed blue hair of Griff and Young Griff easily enough, and Yandry and Ysilla seemed to be no more than they claimed to be, whilst Duck was somewhat less. Lemore, though … Who is she, really? Why is she here? Not for gold, I'd judge. What is this prince to her? Was she ever a true septa? Kind of unrelated but I was also thinking of a connection between Gilly and Septa Lemore. With the crew of the Shy Maid mirroring the crew of the Cinnamon Wind (Griff being Sam, Tyrion as Daeron, Haldon as Maester Aemon, Aemon (baby) is Aegon, Ysilla, yandry, and Duck being the captain, captain’s mate and daughter).
  18. I honestly don’t know. The dance of the dragons had both sides with dragons, could this mean Aegon’s side will have a dragon? Who would ride it? Arianne or Aegon? There has to be a reason for the 3 heads of the dragon, it may have something to do with Aegon, since when he was born Rhaegar says he that needed one more. Dany even thinks there are two others out there that will ride her dragons. I know people think it’s Tyrion as the third dragon rider, but in Moqurro’s vision, he saw him snarling in between the dragons. The Toland girl saw dragon(s) dancing and people dying. Tyrion will go to the side that gives him the most power and a ruler he would be able to manipulate. He can manipulate Aegon pretty good but can he manipulate Dany? Can he manipulate Aegon with Varys, Illyrio and Jon Con present? Or is Tyrion going to play both sides (Moqurro’s vision). Who’s left in Westeros? Stannis/Roose, Euron, LF, Mace, Doran, Varys, Illyrio, and Cersei. They might instigate the entire war to get rid of both Aegon and Dany…and they will probably succeed therefore destroying the Targaryen lineage. Maybe Jon was supposed to be the Lord Commander that Dany and Aegon meet to bring them all together against the Others…but since he’s incapacitated, it won’t work. And this why we are getting THAT ending..
  19. @sweetsunray Hey, I really like your analysis! I believe Varys had killed Kevan brutally as a personal vendetta against the Lannisters. You bring up a really good parallel, makes me think the Others (the leader) also has some sort of personal vendetta against the Starks, did the Starks/NW in the past kill all of the spider’s children? If it is an lovecraft entity I doubt we will see it in the story, most likely it will stay in the shadows. It does fit with the below passage though: Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. And he looked past the Wall, past endless forests cloaked in snow, past the frozen shore and the great blue-white rivers of ice and the dead plains where nothing grew or lived. North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks. Now you know, the crow whispered as it sat on his shoulder. Now you know why you must live.
  20. Oh yes I agree that she shouldn’t have kids in the first place anyway especially if she has moon tea. But this is the plot point George made. Apparently, only the Hightowers had an issue with it, not half the realm. I mean Daeron was suspected as a bastard and there was a rebellion to put a more targ like king, Daemon on the throne. I find Corlys’ excuse for wanting Luc to inherit driftmark pretty unbelievable due to this. The show tried to make sense of it lol
  21. We have to keep giving him positive energy folks it’s the only thing that will motivate to write more, whatever comes out from him just say it’s fantastic till the books are done.
  22. I thought the show was fine and entertaining, not great but I enjoy the parts they adapt from the books. What can I say, I’m a huge fan of these books lol…Edit: I’m a big fan of how they are portraying the dragons. I feel like most people think of them as some kind of pets but no they are more than just animals. Also, I found it amusing talking to people about this show. I had asked one of my friends if she thought Aemond stole Vhagar and she was like ‘“well he didn’t steal her, but Rhaena had first dibs on riding Vaghar and Vaghar liked Aemond because he had a good heart” lmao I know this is going to be unpopular but my original issue with Rhaenyra is that kings and princes have bastards all the time and they are not legitimate. When Rhaenyra had her children, they should have been acknowledged as bastards instead of being in line of the throne.
  23. I really didn’t like the ending then realized it wasn’t that bad. I have to take my book reader glasses off. Criston getting away with this? Joffrey posed a danger to Rhaenyra and the Velaryons are ok with it because it covers Laenor.
  24. Isn’t this the same director for both episodes? It was very similar to this episode.
  25. I think this was the weakest episode so far. Viserys getting the idea of marrying Laenor to Rhaenyra just now does not seem like an organic idea, he should have thought of this in the previous episode to appease Corlys. It feels like manufactured drama and angst. Also the crab feeder was totally underwhelming which he should be, idk how Daemon was losing to him with two dragons. They said that he ran into tunnels, he barely went into the tunnels and stared out like Bran. He didn’t do anything at all. Daemon having a whole bunch of people around him and not attacking him just for a setup for a dragon…there are so many things that I just didn’t like. On a positive note though, really happy to see the Strongs, Lannisters, Hightowers, and Joffrey Edit: how could I forget the PUG! All is forgiven!
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