Crona

I never looked into the Lemongate stuff, so I have no skin it.

But in regards to Dany living with Sealord of Braavos, what would be the point of hiding it? The quote posted by @Frey family reunion, when was that quote made?

Q: Dany remembers a lemon tree outside the house with the red door in Braavos, but citrus trees shouldn’t really grow in Braavos’ cold, foggy climate.  Is this discrepancy significant?  Does it point to future revelations about Dany’s past?  Thank you so much.

GRRM: Very perceptive of you.

Yes, it does point to … well, that would be telling.

Was that before ADWD? If so, then he’s probably hiding Arianne and Viserys marriage pact. If that quote is after ADWD then I have no idea why he would hide that. I mean he could also just say those climate limitations are not found in the Sealord of Braavos estate. 

On 3/19/2023 at 5:35 AM, Sandy Clegg said:

Connotations are not necessarily relevant in wordplay. A crystal = a mineral = a stone. If it's a good enough synonym to be used in a crossword, then it should be good enough for George. Also, I don't think we should expect him to be anything other than subtle in his games. He's on the record as saying as much himself.  So unless you want a character to hang a literal stone or pebble between their breasts, then this is the most plausible in-world representation of having a character with a 'stone' near their 'heart'.

I suspect the deeper issue here is a refusal to see that a game is in fact being played between author and reader.

100% agree this story is a game between the author and reader. Btw very good eye! It didn’t occur to me that Lady Stoneheart mirrors Lemore, but it goes well with what I think happened (Lemore’s child was killed instead of Elia’s, just my personal theory). I think this quote really goes the Stoneheart mirroring: 

Lemore had changed out of her septa's robes into garb more befitting the wife or daughter of a prosperous merchant. Tyrion watched her closely. He had sniffed out the truth beneath the dyed blue hair of Griff and Young Griff easily enough, and Yandry and Ysilla seemed to be no more than they claimed to be, whilst Duck was somewhat less. Lemore, though … Who is she, really? Why is she here? Not for gold, I'd judge. What is this prince to her? Was she ever a true septa?

Kind of unrelated but I was also thinking of a connection between Gilly and Septa Lemore. With the crew of the Shy Maid mirroring the crew of the Cinnamon Wind (Griff being Sam, Tyrion as Daeron, Haldon as Maester Aemon, Aemon (baby) is Aegon, Ysilla, yandry, and Duck being the captain, captain’s mate and daughter).

I honestly don’t know.
The dance of the dragons had both sides with dragons, could this mean Aegon’s side will have a dragon? Who would ride it? Arianne or Aegon? There has to be a reason for the 3 heads of the dragon, it may have something to do with Aegon, since when he was born Rhaegar says he that needed one more. Dany even thinks there are two others out there that will ride her dragons. I know people think it’s Tyrion as the third dragon rider, but in Moqurro’s vision, he saw him snarling in between the dragons. The Toland girl saw dragon(s) dancing and people dying.

Tyrion will go to the side that gives him the most power and a ruler he would be able to manipulate. He can manipulate Aegon pretty good but can he manipulate Dany? Can he manipulate Aegon with Varys, Illyrio and Jon Con present? Or is Tyrion going to play both sides (Moqurro’s vision).

Who’s left in Westeros? Stannis/Roose, Euron, LF, Mace, Doran, Varys, Illyrio, and Cersei. They might instigate the entire war to get rid of both Aegon and Dany…and they will probably succeed therefore destroying the Targaryen lineage. 

Maybe Jon was supposed to be the Lord Commander that Dany and Aegon meet to bring them all together against the Others…but since he’s incapacitated, it won’t work.

And this why we are getting THAT ending..

@sweetsunray

On 10/29/2022 at 6:51 PM, Winterfell is Burning said:

The men are the ones having the bastards, though. And even then, they are rarely acknowledged, specially if the man is already married. Rhaenyra having bastards and acknowledging them publicly would be enough to make the Velaryons dissolve the marriage if they wanted to, have her branded as a whore in the eyes of most people, and have her political situation be unsustainable.

Really, the whole issue is that Rhaenyra shouldn't have had children in the first place, it ends or at least reduces a lot the risk of a succession crisis, since Aegon is the heir anyway. Particularly in the show, where they age difference is pretty much mother and child.

Oh yes I agree that she shouldn’t have kids in the first place anyway especially if she has moon tea. But this is the plot point George made. Apparently, only the Hightowers had an issue with it, not half the realm. I mean Daeron was suspected as a bastard and there was a rebellion to put a more targ like king, Daemon on the throne. 

I find Corlys’ excuse for wanting Luc to inherit driftmark pretty unbelievable due to this. The show tried to make sense of it lol

We have to keep giving him positive energy folks it’s the only thing that will motivate to write more, whatever comes out from him just say it’s fantastic till the books are done.

I thought the show was fine and entertaining, not great but I enjoy the parts they adapt from the books. What can I say, I’m a huge fan of these books lol…Edit: I’m a big fan of how they are portraying the dragons. I feel like most people think of them as some kind of pets but no they are more than just animals.

Also, I found it amusing talking to people about this show. I had asked one of my friends if she thought Aemond stole Vhagar and she was like ‘“well he didn’t steal her, but Rhaena had first dibs on riding Vaghar and Vaghar liked Aemond because he had a good heart” lmao

I know this is going to be unpopular but my original issue with Rhaenyra is that kings and princes have bastards all the time and they are not legitimate. When Rhaenyra had her children, they should have been acknowledged as bastards instead of being in line of the throne. 

I really didn’t like the ending then realized it wasn’t that bad. I have to take my book reader glasses off. Criston getting away with this? Joffrey posed a danger to Rhaenyra and the Velaryons are ok with it because it covers Laenor. 

4 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

 

Isn’t this the same director for both episodes? It was very similar to this episode. 

I think this was the weakest episode so far.  Viserys getting the idea of marrying Laenor to Rhaenyra just now does not seem like an organic idea, he should have thought of this in the previous episode to appease Corlys. It feels like manufactured drama and angst.

Also the crab feeder was totally underwhelming which he should be, idk how Daemon was losing to him with two dragons. They said that he ran into tunnels, he barely went into the tunnels and stared out like Bran. He didn’t do anything at all. Daemon having a whole bunch of people around him and not attacking him just for a setup for a dragon…there are so many things that I just didn’t like. 

On a positive note though, really happy to see the Strongs, Lannisters, Hightowers, and Joffrey 

Edit: how could I forget the PUG! All is forgiven!

I feel like they made a mistake with Alicent and Viserys marriage, I don’t understand what the rush was to remarry. They could have done it where it’s been 6 months since Alicent visits him and the entire kingdom knows and started making rumors making Corlys, Daemon, Otto and Rhaenyra angry. They could have also focused on the Hightowers being powerful too and had other houses offer their daughter’s for marriage. Idk it was just weird they were only focusing on Laena being viable.

Omg I hate what they have done with mysaria, I’m hoping somehow it would change. It’s really bad, I felt like she was more a Varys/tyanna type in the books.

everything else was fine. I felt like I was watching a weird medieval Jurassic park scene with Otto on the bridge. 

Rhaenyra was absolutely amazing, crab scenes looked cool. I have no idea what to think of the villain coming, looks cringe. I also like the portrayal of daemon and rhaenyra

14 hours ago, biosnake20 said:

George RR Martin in Conversation: HOW Interviews GRRM

This was a fantastic interview. I highly recommend for people to listen to it, I wish there was a transcript because he said some interesting stuff. One of them being besides dragon riders, there was also blood magic practitioners in Valyria that held a lot of power. He does not have a magic system but if you use magic in his world there are devastating effects. He says something very interesting about the “Faegon” term. 

He also talked about how the show is their own canon and the books are their own (which I’ve always thought anyway). He takes history as an inspiration but it’s not accurate and he is more concerned with the story. Either way, fans shouldn’t be concerned about the historical/book canon accuracy since it’s fantasy. 

2 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Eh, I think there's probably hundreds of participants. This is a massive-massive affair.

The ones we see are just the most important and violent ones.

That’s what I thought of, they were showing the violent altercations to contrast the birthing scene. Perhaps they should have wrote this somewhere in big giant letters before the scene so the audience would know.

31 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

That still doesn't make much sense in-universe, though.

 I think it does, Maekar killed Baelor during a tourney and I believe a few others died brutally in that tourney. 

 They did the violence on purpose to contrast the violence of birthing (battle in the birthing bed). And they allowed  Daemon getting away with cheating because he’s spoiled and nobody can call him out. This story has more symbolism and magical feeling elements than GOT. 

I think they did a pretty good job, Alicent and Rhaenyra’s friendship is a welcome change. Some parts definitely felt cringey like when Viserys talked about White Walkers.  Some of the CGI dragons looked goofy. I like the rivalry between Daemon and Otto, although Daemon is pretty unlikeable. So far I’m liking it and seeing where it goes. The show has a long way to go since they starting from Aemma’s death. 

4 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

 

I don't think it's commented on and we assume they are not purple, but Tyrion does look at Lemore's eyes, first thing.

An older couple with a Rhoynish cast to their features stood close beside the tiller, whilst a handsome septa in a soft white robe stepped through the cabin door and pushed a lock of dark brown hair from her eyes.

Could it just be an intentional omission by the author? It could be, but on a boat of mystery persons where having remarkable purple eyes is absolutely noteworthy it's a big stretch in my mind when we aren't even given an implausible excuse for it.

She does wear a crystal around her neck, there are other characters that use rubies and moonstones for glamor. Ashara fits for me to be Lemore, because it says Lemore needs to hide her identity in Westeros, and the only character I could think of that is missing and would be part of the Aegon cause would be Ashara. (A character that even a casual reader would know about) I believe George had written himself in a corner and didn’t want to give away the identity yet, we technically don’t know what eye color she has. From my own past experience, some people focus too much on a physical characteristic that is actually author error, rather than paying attention to the overall story to dismiss legitimate theories.

Came here for this news and was not disappointed by the threads. I think Kit is overestimating his acting abilities here and I think a few others (including George) are just seeing money signs. I dun want it, but this is going to be a trash fire and I’m here for it.

On 6/27/2022 at 1:37 AM, corbon said:

 

And how did Varys get him to Illyrio, and how did llyrio handle a one year old child and raise him til 6-7+?

I suspect another party is connected. A Targaryen loyalist, closely connected to Rhaegar and Elia, who 'committed suicide' (but no body found) at just about the right time to secretly (by Varys' design probably) take young Aegon from Westeros to Essos. Who was about the right age and the right look to pass as his mother, and the right upbringing and background to later act as a tutor and prepare him to be a competent ruler of a 'foreign' (even if it is home) land. 
Also, remarkably attractive to men, rumoured to have had a child, dark haired and raised literally beside the sea (more likely than is common to be a swimmer.

Oh, and fAegon's 'tutor' is referred to by Jon Connington as a "Lady" and senior enough in the conspiracy to argue with Jon Con about their plans and actions - more than once, with no comeback. She also explicitly has her own secrets (and may be recognisable without some sort of disguise) which Tyrion deliberately ignores once, then gets lost from the party almost immediately after deciding that there was more to her than he thought.
 

 

I do believe Ashara = Lemore too, and I think it was her baby that was swapped with Aegon. She got pregnant around the same time Elia was pregnant with Aegon. She committed “suicide” (like Jon Con) after the sack of KL. There is also an emphasis on Lemore’s pregnancy marks and there is mention of Ashara’s stillborn daughter in the later books. This would also serve as a good motivation to put Aegon on the throne, besides being a loyalist, if Aegon is not on the throne then her child’s death would be meaningless. I also think she would be able to convince Jon Con of Aegon’s legitimacy. 

Great write up and I agree that YG=Aegon. The chapter of Kevan’s death imo, is the biggest evidence for it. I wrote up a thread regarding that chapter and Aegon being real. (I linked it below) It’s nice to see other members re-examining the text  Also, check out how Pycelle and Kevan die, it matches Pisswater Prince’s and Rhaenys’ deaths. Pycelle’s head was smashed and Kevan was stabbed to death.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/160168-the-children-theory/ 

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

There is nothing attractive about "Myrish swamp" 

Well, your mom certainly likes it

Edit: please don’t take it personally; your avatar and username are what I was referring to lol

Just my 2 cents. I don't think Dinklage meant the other character endings - I think he is referring to Jon and Dany getting together and King & Queen. While, I don't necessarily agree with his words (the show was bad for a while) there are a large amount of people that were upset the ending didn't have Jon/Dany on the throne. 

“No, but the show subverts what you think, and that’s what I love about it. Yeah, it was called Game of Thrones, but at the end, the whole dialogue when people would approach me on the street was, ‘Who’s going to be on the throne?’ I don’t know why that was their takeaway because the show really was more than that.”

14 minutes ago, Yaya said:

this observation is another reason why R & L never ever even happened. neither of them cheated. 

yes, i have no proof.

 

Actually this observation makes me more inclined to think Elia was not in love with Rhaegar and had knowledge of the situation. This would explain their complex relationship, harrenhal and Aegon being removed as heir after Rhaegar dying.

For this quote by GRRM:

Q: Dany remembers a lemon tree outside the house with the red door in  Braavos but citrus trees shouldn’t really grow in Braavos’ cold, foggy, climate.  Is this discrepancy significant?  Does it point to a future revelation about Dany’s past?  Thank you so much.

A:  Very perceptive of you.

Yes it does point to ... well, that would be telling.

the screenshot of the message doesn’t show the date, does anyone know the date of this quote?

7 hours ago, Megorova said:

I think it was 6 months after Rhaenys' birth, because it seems that Aegon was conceived at King's Landing in early 281. Rhaegar and Elia married in early 280, Rhaenys was born in late 280. If her parents went to King's Landing 6 months after her birth, to present her to the King, then that's also when they conceived Aegon, while they were at KL. Aegon was born either in very late 281 or very early 282, thus he was conceived in early 281 (Elia was heavily pregnant during Harrenhal's tournament, that took place close to the end of 281).

My estimates is that Aegon was conceived in April 281 (born in December 281 or January 282), Rhaenys was born in October 280, and the Wedding was in January 280.

I agree that it seems Rhaenys was presented after 6 months with both parents in KL to conceive Aegon. However I do find it odd that it says Rhaegar presented Rhaenys and not the both of them. Doesn’t seem like Rhaegar was present in the Kingswood brotherhood incident either.  It’s actually kinda hard to pinpoint Elia’s location during the time of Aegon’s conception.