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Ghost+Nymeria4Eva

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Posts posted by Ghost+Nymeria4Eva


  1. At first I thought maybe it's tradition for a Stark to take the black. Now it looks more like Benjen had something to do with the rebellion. Maybe he was the one who spread the lie and this is his punishment? It's also possible that it's something he did in his grief after losing almost his entire family. 

    On 7/8/2019 at 9:23 AM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

    Maybe he knew about the prophecy too. Maybe his joining the Watch was to keep an eye on any unusual activity in the far north, and alert Ned if there was any sign of the Others returning. Ned clearly didn't believe there was any such danger but Rhaegar did, and Lyanna might have, so Benjen might have as well.

    Right. Perhaps Ned's "promise" to Lyanna included Jon ending up at the Wall. Maybe he sent Benjen there early so he would be an experienced officer able to look after Jon when he gets there. Or Ned might have always planned to send Jon to the Wall so that he could never claim a right to the throne just in case the secret came out. In GoT, he never protests Jon's desire to go to the Wall. Never talks about it or mentioned it even. 

    19 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

    Maybe Ned objected to Benjen going to the NW with the same energy he objected to Jon going to the NW. 

    :rofl:   Good one. I always found it weird that Ned never even talked to Jon about him going to the Wall. 


  2. On 6/17/2019 at 8:33 AM, Bowen 747 said:

    Dany is the Black Dragon.  The White Lions are the Lannisters. 

    What makes you say Dany is the "black dragon"? Do you mean that she's the secret Blackfyre? 

    I think someone else has already pointed out, Lannisters are associated with golden dragons, not white ones. 

    15 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

    White is purity.  White lambs are sacrificed in the bible.  We know about the three fires.  They are 3 executions but more than that.  They are also sacrifices.  Somebody gets thrown in the fire.  This white lion, whoever it may be, will end up in the coals.  

    I thought that maybe the lion Drogo killed was a sacrifice of some sorts unbeknownst to them. It was obviously a rare and possibly unique creature. Drogo might have killed an animal associated with the gods, like the direwolves. It was clearly important in the grand scheme of things. Like how Ned was executed after he killed Lady, maybe Drogo's fate was the gods' punishment for him killing the special lion. Either that or the significance comes from Dany wearing the lion pelt (and it later being associated with her).  

     

     

     


  3. 6 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

    Doesn't Bloodraven discuss the trees' perspective of time in Bran III, Dance? Could it be that a greenseer loses perspective of time since time for a tree is kinda fungible

    This occurs three books before Bran meets 3EC. 

    3 hours ago, Ibbison from Ibben said:

    Bloodraven doesn't understand the question. Conclusion - Bloodraven is not aware that he appears as a crow with three eyes to Bran and Jojen when he contacts then via dream.

    What makes you say that? It seems like he understood it well enough and confirms that he is the crow. 

    3 hours ago, Ibbison from Ibben said:

    Likewise, Bran shows no awareness that he appeared as a weirwood sapling to Ghost/Jon  when he contacted them. Apparently this is how weirwood dreams work.

    Except that it wasn't a weirwood dream. Bran was warging into Summer. In his Summer dream, he doesn't see Jon. Also, Summer sees that weird "winged snake" over Winterfell. Other than that, it seems the usual warg dream. If Summer met Ghost, it would be perfectly sensible. Unless if there are roots from the godswood growing into the crypts of Winterfell. 

    Also, how did Bran manage to communicate with Jon who is beyond the Wall at this point? Doesn't the Wall block magical powers like this? Bloodraven has the trees. 


  4. 15 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

    No

    Bran VIII, ACOK

    Quote

    He remembered who he was all too well; Bran the boy, Bran the broken. Better Bran the beastling. Was it any wonder he would sooner dream his Summer dreams, his wolf dreams? Here in the chill damp darkness of the tomb his third eye had finally opened. He could reach Summer whenever he wanted, and once he had even touched Ghost and talked to Jon. Though maybe he had only dreamed that. He could not understand why Jojen was always trying to pull him back now. Bran used the strength of his arms to squirm to a sitting position. "I have to tell Osha what I saw. Is she here? Where did she go?"

     

    But he didn't talk to Jon through Ghost. He was talking through a weir sapling that Ghost came across. Where did the weirwood come from otherwise? It wasn't one of those symbolic prophesy dreams. 


  5. 3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

    Ah, the post is archived. I noticed that you observed the tree line effect. The pass is all stone, but the sapling still grows. Perhaps there's a different reasons weirwoods don't grow in the Vale. 

    I think someone mentioned that Bran is in the crypts, hence the death and the darkness. But the Bran in the passage says he "likes" it there. We know he doesn't, which is why he likes to warg into Summer. And Summer doesn't like it either. And Ghost observes a "terrible" smell too. Could it just be decomposing bodies, considering nothing been buried there recently?

    The reason I thought it was a time travel trip is because Bran specifically says "before the crow." At this point, he hasn't met the crow yet and doesn't know anything about weirwood magic. And he sounds confident and even helps Jon see, unlike the Bran in Winterfell who's just learning about his warging abilities. Also, the weirwood. It's present and is growing, like it's between its adult and young stage, kind of like a time lapse video. 


  6. Referring to a scene in one of Jon's chapters towards the end of ACoK. Jon, Qhorin, and three other black brothers are going through the Skirling Pass when Jon has another wolf dream in his sleep. He becomes Ghost as he goes hunting. And then this happens:

    Quote

    Jon?
    The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. Can a shout be silent? He turned his head, searching for his brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the trees, but there was nothing, only . . .
    A weirwood.
    It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother’s face. Had his brother always had three eyes?
    Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.
    He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.
    Don’t be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him.
    And suddenly he was back in the mountains, his paws sunk deep in a drift of snow as he stood upon the edge of a great precipice. Before him the Skirling Pass opened up into airy emptiness, and a long vee-shaped valley lay spread beneath him like a quilt, awash in all the colors of an autumn afternoon.

    Bran during this time is still hiding in the crypts of Winterfell, so it's obviously can't be the  same Bran that reaches out to Ghost. It looks like he has just become the three-eyed crow, symbolized by the young weirwood tree with his face on it. (So are the faces on weirwoods faces of the 3EC, rather than carved ones as believed? There would not be anyone to carve a face on a weir sapling growing on a rock in an inhospitable region.)

    Anyway, does this mean Bran as the 3EC has gone back in time to help Jon? Or did the 3EC imitate Bran? Did Bran open Jon's warg eye as the previous 3EC did to him? At the end of Dance, Bran is still sort of an apprentice 3EC. So this must come from even further in the future.

    How did he teleport Ghost to the top of the pass for the view of the valley? And how did to "talk" to Jon? Is it that Ghost's direwolf ears can "hear" the tree, whereas humans don't hear anything or perhaps just peculiar whispers?

    (There's also the part about Bran being in the dark. Ghost smells death from the tree.That's a lot of sinister undertones to the weir magic hinted here.)

     


  7. On 6/24/2019 at 9:09 AM, namesarehard said:

    Could be Osha just doesn't know what a dragon looks like or it could be a wyvern. There's really not enough to guess. 

    Osha? No it's Summer, Bran's direwolf, who sees it. See the quote. It's one of Bran's wolf dreams. 


  8. On 6/24/2019 at 10:18 AM, Lady Barbrey said:

    Re the budget: I would try to find it but since I'm finding you confrontational, or maybe so pissed off about the show you can't help spreading the joy,  go look it up yourself.  I've only read a few articles so a Google should get  results.  

    No, back up your own facts. 


  9. Did Catelyn get a vision from the Seven in Clash when she visits the sept near Renly's camp?

    Did Summer see a dragon above Winterfell after Ramsay sacked it?

    Who were the people from the Shadow that disappears into the "annals of history"? Was there a long night before the Long Night that results in the Wall?

    Are there really animal-human hybrids in the far east?

    What is the cup of ice and cup of fire?

    Why didn't Drogon recognize Dany in Daznak's Pit? 

    Did the Undying really send the comet as a messenger to Dany as they claim?

    What was the blue heart throbbing indigo light in the House of the Undying?

    What's the voice from the fire that spoke to the sorcerer who mutilated Varys? 

    Is there someone or something really looking through the dragon skulls in KL like Arya, Tyrion, Ned, Robert, and Jaime feel?

     

     


  10.  

    14 hours ago, Megorova said:

    An idea, that without Robert's Rebellion, there would have been no dragons, is also a what-if fanfic.

    That's not what the other poster asked. It was a question about what if Rhaegar had managed to get his Great Council. Dany not being born would be near inevitable if Aerys was dethroned, which would mean he would be kept separate from his wife. Rhaella would also get the protection of the Kingsguard as the queen mother so she would no longer be hurt by the mad king. 

    On the other hand, saying that there would be dragons without Dany because one of the dead Targs would have managed the same ritual Dany did is very much a fanfic scenario. That's like asking would another have found the direwolves if Jon had not existed? Would another Stark become a greenseer and a 3EC if Bran had not existed? Would another Night's Watch brother kill the wight if Jon had never been there? No. These things were done by specific people under unique circumstances. We can say that Robert would have found another Hand if Ned had said no, or that Cersei would have married someone else if the Rebellion had not happened. That's because those things were bound to happen regardless, unlike the earlier scenarios that happen only because of specific people. 

    14 hours ago, Megorova said:

    If he didn't had those eggs, then - 1. how did Elissa was able to pay for the Sun Chaser? 2. why did the Sealord reduced Targaryens' debts to the Iron Bank of Braavos?

    1 + 2 = he did had those eggs.

    1. She stole money or sold the dragon eggs to someone else. 2. If he bought the dragon eggs from Elissa, why in the world would he cut the debts to the Targs, considering he'd already paid for the eggs? He didn't make any transactions with Targs directly. Why would he deny making the purchase? Didn't Barth negotiate the reduction of the debts anyway?

    (Maybe GRRM intends to give Dany's eggs a Targ origin, or maybe he would make them to be from Asshai as originally intended. We would have to wait for the story to conclude. Until then, it's premature to assume that is the case considering GRRM backtracked on giving this official confirmation.) 

    14 hours ago, Megorova said:

    Shiera was a user of blood magic, according to Aegon V, she was bathing in blood, and that way stayed young and beautiful.

    Egg at this point is a small child who's repeating a juicy piece of gossip he's heard. That doesn't make it a fact that actually happened. 

    14 hours ago, Megorova said:

    In Dany's last chapter in ADWD, she had a vision, in which she first heard whispering stars, and recognized that voice as Quaithe,

    No, the "whispering stars" tell her the same riddle Quaithe did in Qarth. So she asks if it's Quaithe. The stars whisper in a woman's voice, which Dany doesn't recognize as Quaithe's at all. Otherwise, she would have thought that the stars whispered in Quaithe's voice. 

    14 hours ago, Megorova said:

    In her fevered dream in chapter AGOT Dany IX, she heard/saw whispering and smiling stars, ghosts that were shouting as one (because it was one person, not many), and they had blue and green-colored eyes

    Dany sees the ghosts of old kings with different shades of blonde hair and different colored eyes (corresponding to the colors of Yi To emperors). None of the kings have mismatched eyes like Shiera does (Tyrion has mismatched eyes too). She doesn't see any stars. She hears the whispering of stars but they are just whispering noise, and doesn't say anything specific. Dany certainly doesn't remember any stars whispering when she's about the light the pyre. 

    Maybe the whispering stars are important because it's a symbol that refers to a divine power that these masked people in Asshai also worship? Like fire to R'hllor or the sea to the Drowned God. Or perhaps it's the Essoi version of whispering weirwoods?

    14 hours ago, Megorova said:

    After Rhaego was born, for many hours afterwards the stars were whispering secrets to Dany. Quaithe/Shiera gave to Dany instructions about what should be done, to hatch dragon eggs.

    That's a logic leap. If this sorcerer knew how to hatch dragons, why didn't she do it herself? Why would she need Dany?

    14 hours ago, Megorova said:

    And yet GRRM gave to readers clues about identity of the three future dragonriders:

    No. No clues whatsoever except to say that the "dragon has three heads." It may refer to three dragons with separate riders, the nature of dragons, or the Targ symbol. The whole thing is too vague to assume anything specific. Also, the Stallion prophesy most likely refers to Drogon (thunderous wings, huge shadow, etc). That is, unless, it did refer to Rhaego and is no longer valid because Rhaego is no more.

    14 hours ago, Megorova said:

    With usage of Shiera's knowledge.

    We barely know who Sheira was, except that she was a popular socialite who was loved by Brynden Rivers. Nothing in the books indicate that she had knowledge of anything magic, much less she knew how to live for over a hundred years without being attached to a weirwood tree. 

    14 hours ago, Megorova said:

    And the comet is an omen of the Second Long Night,

    The comet is interpreted to be many things in the books. The Undying even claim that they sent the comet to show Dany the way. Why would this not be true?

    Also, the prophesy says Azhor Ahai is "reborn"--not born--as the Red Star bleeds. Dany went into the fire and her not getting burned is seen as a sort of "rebirth." Rhaego was a stillbirth, meaning he's never born and dies in Dany's womb. If Jon goes through a similar ritual to become the PtwP, he'd have to go through with it before the comet disappears (unless it already has). 

    14 hours ago, Megorova said:

    and the birth of the last out of three dragon heads - Rhaego. So, someone else, from Jaehaerys' line could have hatched dragon eggs many years prior the birth of the third Messiah, and his or her dragon would have remained without a rider, until he or she was born, though the birth of the third dragon head, is not necessary for the ritual of hatching dragon eggs.

    Huh?

    14 hours ago, Megorova said:

    But in the books it is obvious, that the lives of dragons were bought with three sacrifices, that were burned on Drogo's funeral pyre, and Rhaego wasn't among them

    What makes you so certain that the books make it "obvious"? In ACoK, Dany is shows three deaths as the "daughter of death" and a horse was not one of them. 

    14 hours ago, Megorova said:

    The eggs had hatched prior Dany went into fire, she started to go into fire, only after the first egg had already hatched.

    Absolutely not. Go read that scene again. Dany's already in the fire for some time and her top even burns off before the first dragon egg cracks. It also happens after she sees Drogo on his stallion rides off into the nightlands and she thinks "now, now." 

    15 hours ago, Megorova said:

    Her going into the funeral pyre was done by GRRM to make it all look more dramatic.

    So GRRM is here writing unnecessary scenes because he just needs to make things look dramatic? Lol. Like, dragons being born after extinction wouldn't be dramatic enough?

    15 hours ago, Megorova said:

    Also GRRM did said, that Dany is not actually resistant to fire,

    No, she's not fireproof, but she (and possibly other Targs) have a fire affinity. In F&B GRRM hints that Targs may actually be more resistant to heat compared to non-Targs. Dany can tolerate more heat than what's considered normal. Similarly, Ned Stark seems to be able to tolerate more cold than normal, as Catelyn observes. 

    I'm all for fan theories, but you are not presenting convincing evidence for Shiera/Quaithe thing. Also, it's really not related to what I mentioned in the earlier post. 

     


  11. 10 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

    This underlines the fact that marriage as a social construct is only as a strong as society and the individuals in it make it - i.e. if nobody cares that Tyrion is allegedly already married when he marries Sansa, the fact that he already has a wife becomes a non-issue.

    No one knows that Tyrion had a wife back in the Westerlands a decade or so ago. People in Casterly Rock or the area may know (because gossip), but no reason to believe anyone at KL knew that Tyrion was ever married. Tywin makes sure that the marriage ends before anyone knows it happened (and also before Tysha gets pregnant). 

    Legal marriage should technically give the each spouse some property rights, so it's not a just a social construct. But not sure what these are in Westeros. In Qarth, we know that there are unique gift exchanging customs between the spouses. GRRM never specifies these things for Westeros. 

    10 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

    It seems that the easiest way is annulment because of non-consummation (and possibly some other grounds for annulment). But the setting aside thing apparently is possible just by the king's own decision, without subjecting himself (or the prince in question) to a proper investigation of the case by the Faith or High Septon. That implies that this is an altogether different procedure, something that goes back to the king's own authority.

    Non-consummation is the only way to annul a marriage, rather than the easiest way. Irl, some jurisdictions allow a marriage to be annulled if the couple is close blood relatives. In Westeros, incest doesn't have a blanket ban. 

    Setting aside a marriage is probably the Westerosi term for divorce. I think things like unfaithfulness, deception, criminal acts (treason) are grounds for a divorce. But Robert, as you said, has king's authority and could declare his own marriage dissolved. Pretty much all highborn marriages are decided for political reasons to make alliances. If these alliances are no longer of any use, I'm sure there's a way for the lords and kings to get rid of their unwanted spouses. 

    As for the Ironborn, they have a rock wife (an ironborn) and many salt wives (kidnapped women). This is perfectly fine because the Ironborn follow the Drowned God, not the Seven. Only the Seven so far demands monogamous marriage. The Old Gods, maybe, considering Ned only has one wife (or because Catelyn follows the Seven). The Targs could enter polygamous or polyandrous marriages in accordance with their native customs. 

    So in Westeros there's king's law, where the king can make up the law as they like, but also social customs based on religion. Marriage most likely falls under jurisdiction of the gods (social custom) rather than the law, which is why we don't see laws for divorce or separation. No one goes to jail for things like abandoning a spouse, which could be a crime if there were actual marriage laws. 


  12. 15 minutes ago, Megorova said:

    There would have still been dragons, even without Dany, only instead of Dany, their mother would have been Rhaenys,

    No. That's just a what-if fanfic. 

    19 minutes ago, Megorova said:

    Three dragon eggs, from which hatched Drogon, Rhaegal and Viserion were Targaryen dragon eggs, that were stolen by Elissa Farman,

    That still only a possibility. GRRM has been coy on this issue. As for the Sealord, he denies that Farman sold him dragon eggs. There are rumors she was in Asshai, so the eggs might have ended up there and sold to Illyrio. While some people tend to believe in the Farman eggs, it's yet to be confirmed. 

    21 minutes ago, Megorova said:

    The one, who instructed Dany, what should be done, to hatch dragon eggs, was Shiera Seastar/Quaithe,

    No one instructed Dany how to hatch dragon eggs. She meets Quaithe after she has hatched dragons. If anything, Dany gets the idea from Mirri Maz Durr's bloodmagic ritual. 

    The Quaithe=Sheira is just a theory, not at all a fact. Sheira Seastar should be dead by now. 

    25 minutes ago, Megorova said:

    Three heads of the dragon from the prophecy

    Three heads of a dragon isn't a prophesy. It might not even truly refer to three people. 

    Quote

    or Azor Ahai reborn, or the Promised Prince was/were supposed to be born from the line of Jaehaerys II, so any of his descendants could have hatched a dragon,

    The prophesy refers to one specific person, not any of the people descending from a certain line. 

    27 minutes ago, Megorova said:

    according to the prophecy, to make dragons return, is one of TPTWP abilities (that - to wake dragons from stone, and to wield Lightbringer sword).

    It's not stated as an ability. It's stated as something this person does, Also, the wording of the prophesy might be jumbled anyway. 

    29 minutes ago, Megorova said:

    If the Rebellion didn't happened, then the dragons would have returned years earlier.

    Like how? There were attempts to make dragons return, like Summerhall, none of which succeeded. And if you go by the prophesy, how would the dragons return "years earlier" before the comet actually appears?

    31 minutes ago, Megorova said:

    If there would have been no Dany (though she could have still been born, even if there was no Robert's Rebellion. Because Rhaella was still fertile), then those eggs would have been hatched by any other person from Jaehaerys' line.

    If the Rebellion didn't happen, Rhaegar would most likely have had that Great Council. Aerys would have been sent for medical care on the account of him being mad. Rhaella would have been kept safe from him. Rhaegar would have protected his mother, but he dies. As explained earlier, the prophesy doesn't refer to "anyone" but "someone" from that line.

    In any case, Dany hatched the dragons, something no one else so far managed to do, period. Whether someone else might have managed to do the same if Dany never existed only leads to endless and meaningless speculation. Any other would need the bizarre fire affinity Dany has. Nothing in the books indicate that Rhaegar, his children, Aerys, Rahella, or Viserys had or have the same ability. 


  13. 13 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

    Who really owns all lands in Westeros ?

    Would it possible to buy land in Westeros?

    After all in really feodal system king owns all land and everyone else has only weaker or stronger "claim" of land. Or in theory king could "nationalize" all land. Naturally any king who would try to do that would almost certainly have massive problems like rebellions and assassins send hunting him.

    This is a feudal system where the modern concept of private ownership of land doesn't exist. The land comes under the protection of a lord, who in turn come under the protection of a bigger lord (like House Stark), and these lords in turn are subjects of a king. Does the king "own" the land? Only if he can militarily defend it. 

    People don't need to buy land because they don't need to. Unlike modern times, people can settle down in unclaimed or unused land, unless they are explicitly ordered to leave by someone with a big army. So if you need to build a house or farm, you don't need to buy land. You can settle down anywhere viable as long as you don't get in a lord's crosshairs. 

    Essentially, people don't own land, they claim it. If you have an army, you can lay claim to large swaths of land and make people there pay you tribute. 

    A king doesn't really need to nationalize land because it is free to use, unless explicitly designated otherwise. 


  14. On 6/13/2019 at 9:18 PM, LadyOfCastamere said:

    If Rhaegar had been successful in dethroning Aerys due to his mental illness and become King himself, he would've later on most likely taken Dany as his second wife. Lyanna wouldve been married to Robert and no war would've taken place.

    Had Rhaegar's Great Council plan gone through, Dany would never have been conceived. She's conceived during the Rebellion, around the time Rhaegar dies or a bit before, and she is born after both Rhaegar and Ares die. In hindsight, had the Rebellion not happened, the world would not have dragons. 


  15. I was re-reading Clash and noticed this in the final Bran chapter:

    Quote

    Yet as one smell drew them onward, others warned them back. He sniffed at the drifting smoke. Men, many men, many horses, and fire, fire, fire. No smell was more dangerous, not even the hard cold smell of iron, the stuff of man-claws and hardskin. The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth, but then the snake was gone. Behind the cliffs tall fires were eating up the stars.

    This is after Winterfell is sacked by the Boltons. Some structures are set on fire. Bran is hiding in the crypts and sees the fires through Summer's eyes. Summer notices people being scared and things burning, and also this "winged snake" breathing flame. Like, where did the dragon come from? Was it really there, did Summer "imagine" it? Was Bran seeing something from the future that somehow freakishly coincides with the sacking that just happened? 

    Soon afterward, Osha in the crypts says “We made noise enough to wake a dragon" (!). Could there have actually been a dragon that no one notices because people don't look up?

    Could this possibly tie-into the shadow dragon Dany is told of by the Undying. Perhaps the Broken Tower in Winterfell is the site where the shadow dragon arises. That's just a theory though. 

    Anyone have explanations/theories on this bizarre appearance of a "winged snake"?

    Update:

    There's a decade old thread on this here: 

    Perhaps there are newer theories/suggestions? 


  16. 1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

    Royal bigamy or polygamy seems to be a larger problem/scandal than replacing a queen with another. That we see by the examples of both Prince Daemon - who asks Viserys I to set aside Rhea so he can marry Rhaenyra - and King Aerys I - who is urged by his Small Council to set aside his marriage to Aelinor Penrose in favor of a wife who is more to his liking.

    Not to mention Jaehaerys I's reaction to the prospect of Princess Saera taking more than one husband...

    That's just the thing. Marriage rules for the royals are based on expedience. The septons seem to promote a traditional Christian-style monogamous marriage, but whether it's strictly followed really depends. As you said, Tywin brutally exiles Tysha from Casterly Rock, even if she was Tyrion's lawful wife. Doesn't he get the septon who conducted the ceremony to undo it or something? The rules are different for Targs altogether.

    It seems that what really keeps most non-Targ marriages going is how wealthy and powerful the wife's family is. Robert is only married to Cersei because of the power and wealth of Casterly Rock. He doesn't kick her out of the castle because he fears Tywin's wrath. Had the Lannisters lost their prestige, I'm sure Cersei would have been quickly replaced with a new bride.

    The point is, if the king really wanted to get rid of a wife or even take on a new one, there are plenty of ways to do that, mainly by getting the High Septon on his side. It would be fine as long as the first wife's family doesn't rebel. And the smallfolk don't seem to particularly care about it. When Rhaegar ran off with Lyanna, the smallfolk weren't outraged. In their version of the story, Rhaegar "loves" Lady Lyanna, unlike in Robert's version where he kidnaps her. 


  17. 7 hours ago, Lady Barbrey said:

    The budget is supposed to be a lot more per episode than GOT

    Where did you read that?

    7 hours ago, Lady Barbrey said:

    I was intrigued by the fact the human was so obviously unwilling to be changed into an Other.  What was his story?

    It was already in the show. He was one of the First Men who invaded Westeros, got captured, and was subjected to a magical curse. Why would it be surprising that he was scared when the enemy inserts some thing inside him? It's the same story as in dozens of werewolf, vampire, superhero, and Resident Evil movies. 

    Considering it's called "Bloodmoon," the show is probably set in the North, probably near the Wall. It may involve direwolves and Starks. Not sure how they would make it a continent-spanning storyline. They reduced the role of direwolves in GoT so I don't see how they would play a prominent role in the prequel. Ghost was essentially reduced to a pet dog and the other direwolves went off screen fairly quickly. 


  18. I always thought that in the end, Rickon would be the one to lead House Stark. Robb is dead, Sansa ends up in the Vale, Bran is the three-eyed crow, and Arya is a faceless man. Like with Egg, the unlikeliest candidate could end up at Winterfell. 

    Alternatively, Rickon's relationship with Shaggydog might reveal something interesting about wargs. As someone else mentioned earlier, Rickon is probably going to be a fierce wolf, full of rage because of what happened. Shaggy, too, has always been angry and impatient. Rickon could even end up being the new warg king. 


  19. Renly probably thought Robert might divorce Cersei for a new Lyanna. He couldn't annul that marriage, even if the children were not his own. Perhaps "setting aside" a marriage means a divorce in this world. 

    Also, Robert is a distant Targ relative. So it might be possible for him to take more than one wife. In any case, he's king and can re-make the rules as he goes. A king taking more than one wife would not be without precedent and probably will not face much resistance. I mean, it's Robert and everyone knows he's not a faithful husband. 


  20. Nymeria "helping" Arya pack in GoT. 

    The direwolves playing with Rickon in GoT. 

    All the Dany and baby dragons scenes. 

    Jaquen H'agar trying to get Arya to unsay his name (I think he was just trying to scare her). 


  21. This should be exciting news but considering they changed so much of the mythology in GoT, my reaction is just "meh." Before S7 began to air, I was excited that the prequel/"successor" shows would delve into things like where the Others came from or how dragons were made. But now we know that some hooman got magiked and dragons were never that important anyway (except for conquest).  


  22. 7 hours ago, Br16 said:

    I feel it is manifest that they were the cruelest since other Empires didn't toss their slaves into ovens. The quote mentioned that most mines were merely dank and chilly, but the Valyrian ones basically roasted people. Also, I never said they killed their own, just that they  sacrificed conquered highborns to get VS.

    Other Empires didn't have volcanoes to dig into. But that doesn't mean they were any less cruel. Valyrians get real greedy, according to the maesters anyway, and make slaves dig even deeper until they come across the firewyrms. 

    Nothing in the books so far explicitly says Valyrians sacrificed people to the fire. The dragons burned armies in war and rebellions. They either killed or enslaved people they conquered. If they did burn conquered people as sacrifices, it would be in the Westerosi maester history books. In fact, blood magic and sacrifices are not mentioned with relation to Valyria at all compared to some of the contemporary places like Qohor. We only know blood magic went into creating dragons from Dany's ritual. Valyrians are only associated with the "arcane arts."

    Going back to the mining, it's possible they mined dragonglass or obsidian, or a different precious metal that Valyrian steel is made out of. The frozen fire or the substance wildfire is made out of. It would make sense that a unique metal went into VS, which is why no one else can make it. Valyrians would have also used dragonfire and certain spells to forge the weapons. 

    (Also, the Ghis empire seemed to have been way, way worse than Valyria when we regard the existing customs in the contemporary harpy cities). 

    7 hours ago, Br16 said:

    It's simply a smart move to arm their elite bodyguards, Praetorian Guards, Garrison officers etc.  with VS. Historically, the servants of the rich were dressed in livery and finer clothes so that when they went out, they would be recognized as the extension of their master's wealth and power. Likewise, Valyrian troops wielding VS items serves the same purpose inworld.

    That's Westerosi custom mainly. That doesn't mean we can apply the same to Valyria. And the books only mention Valyrian armor as something the dragonlords wore. There are no mentions of Valyrian ground troops clad in VS armor and using VS blades going into battle. The children of Valyria, though under the Freehold, have their own armies. If they had VS gear for the common soldier, they should exist to this day and those don't really seem to. 

    Again. Valyria didn't depend on ground troops to win battles. They had dragons, and that's all they really needed. 

    7 hours ago, Br16 said:

    Also, there were only 40 Houses with Dragons, thus, the Dragonlords (who were all aristocrats needing leisure time and senate attendance time) needed to have other people do most of the day to day grunt work, and those forces would need better weaponry to maintain their prestige and edge. 

    This is really just speculation. You can't assume that Valyrians ran their Freehold the same way the Meereenese or the Pentoshi run their cities. 

    7 hours ago, Br16 said:

    If the Dragonlords patrolled so hard, why were 99% of the dragons in one location to all die in the doom? By logic, they would have been spread out all over the empire, on tightly scheduled shifts,  putting out rebellions and patrolling. 

    Because the Doom happened when the dragonlords were gathered in Valyria. AWOIAF says this:

    Quote

    The dragonlords had been gathered in Valyria as was their wont

    So its custom for the dragonlords to be in Valyria. They probably didn't need to go patrolling except on occasions. Valyria was never plagued by rebellions. They won against their main enemies--the Ghiscari and the Rhoynar--and everyone else realized they couldn't match the power of dragons. The Andals fled rather than rebel and die. 

    7 hours ago, Br16 said:

    An awful possibility for an awful world. Planetos is filled with Lords, Kings, Old Blood, Wise Masters and Merchant Princes. Each is arrogant and it is only reasonable that they have deities to match.

    Um, no. People everywhere live by a hierarchy of some sort. Just because social customs dictate nobles are important, that doesn't mean divine tradition assumes the same. None of the religions actually claim some lives are above others either. 

    7 hours ago, Br16 said:

    After all, the Black Goat of Qohor demands animal sacrifice on regular days, but gets noble sacrifice in times of crisis. And their sorcery obviously has power since the only people left who could rework (but not make) VS are from Qohor.

    This is obviously something the evil sorcerers of Qohor believe; not that a "god" actually came down and demanded dead nobles. Lol. We know from Mel's actions that some priests tend to believe they know their religion truly despite gaps in knowledge. The sacrificial magic in Qohor most likely comes from a misunderstanding of Valyrian magic. Either that or they are making these offerings to the Great Other that hates all living things. In any case, we don't really know much about the bloodmagic in the East to claim anything beyond speculation. 

    The books say that some Qohori smiths CLAIM to know how to create VS. If they really could do it, then we would see a big VS trade coming out of the city, but we don't. 

    7 hours ago, Br16 said:

    Because perhaps not all life force was equal.

    I very highly doubt that. 

    Why would you actually assume that some lives are worthier than others anyway? Nissa Nissa was important because of her husband (who only becomes a hero after killing her)? Why isn't it more likely that the ritual worked because Nissa Nissa was important to Azor Ahai, who loved her truly? He makes a great personal sacrifice to get a magic weapon in return. This is pretty easy to understand in context. Why would the gods value people based on where they are in highly arbitrary social hierarchies? If they did that, they would not be gods at all. 

    7 hours ago, Br16 said:

     If only dragon fire and spells were needed, and no supply limit based on rare sacrifice, then the Targaryens should have been able to evacuate to Dragonstone with more VS.

    Or they didn't have the mined raw material needed to make the steel. They left Valyria some dozen years before the Doom, so plenty of time to stock up on everything they needed. 

    7 hours ago, Br16 said:

    And I replied that many dragon eggs have hatched on their own without sacrificing kin.

    Because the sacrifices were already made. The souls of the dragons and their potential riders are already intertwined. 

    Anyway the point is, some sort of magic did go into making VS. It's possible that the unique properties of the blade come from using a precious metal found only in the Peninsula (which is no more). VS is highly valuable, but we see all sorts of things made from it other than blades. Therefore, I highly doubt people were actually sacrificed to make it. We can probably say that some type of fire property went into the blade, which is why it's so effective against the Others. 


  23. Rhaegar was known as a great harpist and a good prince, not necessarily a great warrior. This is just what Dany thinks and asks Barristan about it. As a seasoned warrior, he corrects her misconception that skill alone can result in battle victories. 

    I think people knew Rhaegar to be a honorable person above all. I don't think his popularity came from him winning battles (considering before the Rebellion, there weren't any battles during his lifetime for Rhaegar to fight. Even Arthur Dayne is known as the best "swordsman" in the realm, rather than as the best warrior). 

     


  24. 7 hours ago, Br16 said:

    They were certainly the most cruel: 

    Again, you can't compare which empire is the most cruel, especially considering GRRM actively avoids the evil empire trope. Obviously, the slaves toiling away in the mines was evil, and it resulted in the destruction of Valyria. But I fail to see your logic that says Valyrians were so cruel and that's why they went around killing their own for a magic metal. 

    7 hours ago, Br16 said:

    Dragons were the power behind Valyria, but an Empire this large would certainly need elite troops, Praetorian Guards and local garrisons to keep the peace and act in tandem with the dragons. It's like how the British Empire relied on the naval guns of its fleet, but still had garrisons everywhere. 

    Valyrians did have elite troops: the DRAGONLORDS. Then they absorbed conquered armies or made their own to act as ground troops. But nothing so far indicates Valyrians needed ground troops so bad that they would need to make blood sacrifices for Valyrian steel. The conquered the Ghis Empire with dragons for example. 

    Also, what evidence do we have that Valyrians equipped their ground troops with Valyrian steel? Wasn't it the dragonlords who wore VS armor and wielded VS swords? 

    7 hours ago, Br16 said:

    Possibly, I always though Summerhall was such an attempt. However, Many Targaryen dragons had hatched on their own.

    You are mixing up creation of dragons with owning dragons. Blood magic went into creating dragons, and also to make dragons return from extinction, from everything we've seen in the books. The dragons that hatch from eggs still are not natural creatures. Their lives are bizarrely connected to the Targs that own them. In Summerhall, a bunch of dragon eggs are destroyed, and that is followed by a number of miscarriages. 

    7 hours ago, Br16 said:

    I think its like this: sacrifice of slaves, gladiators and animals is like copper coins, sacrifice of nobles is like silver coins, sacrifice of your own noble kin is like gold coins. Depending on what they were trying to achieve, they needed to get the value right. The regular sacrifices are just to keep the peace, but if they wanted something extraordinary, it would cost progressively more.

    You can't put a value on life based on social station! That's ridiculous and just awful. GRRM certainly is not writing about a world where a royal, noble life has more value than the life of someone enslaved.

    The sacrifice is like a transaction, where the person doing the sacrifice has to pay a "price" to get what they want in return. So it's a personal price, nothing to do with the people ending up as the sacrifices. The only such successful ritual we see so far is what Dany does at the end of GoT. None of the other rituals where things are killed left and right work. That shows that priests and sorcerers don't really understand what paying the price means and that they think just killing things should work (it doesn't).  

    7 hours ago, Br16 said:

    Moreover, a great theory on Reddit ( its called Hell is for real; The Fourteen Flames) goes that Valyrian sorcerers raised the dead slaves as fire wights to suffer again and again until the body is too damaged. So basically the first Faceless Man offered quick permanent painless death to the slaves. 

    That sounds like a tin foil theory. If they could raise fire wights, Valyrians wouldn't need to enslave new ones as frequently as they did. Also, corpses can be mended if damaged. Why would the FM kill the slaves considering they can just be raised as wights? Wouldn't they also need ice somehow to destroy a fire wight?

    7 hours ago, Br16 said:

    Maybe it's not one soul per item, it could be one per each large ingot, which is later reworked into various items. 

    That doesn't make any sense. If there was a soul in there, why doesn't the metal glow or look reddish? We know that Lightbringer had that glow-y type of property that made the steel look sort of alive. I think it's more sensible that they used dragon fire and spells to make Varyian steel. So it would only indirectly be made using blood magic. GRRM has confirmed that magic goes into making VS:

    Quote

    The closest real life analog is Damascus steel, but Valyrian steel is a fantasy metal. Which means it has magical characteristics, and magic plays a role in its forging.

     


  25. 4 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

    Tobho Mott knows how to reforge Valyrian steel, not create it

    Isn't it the same thing? I mean, wouldn't he have to fold the melted steel the same when reforging to get the same properties? Doesn't it mean he knows how Valyrian steel is made? Maybe he can't create it as he doesn't have dragons, but he does have the knowledge. This is, of course, what he claims. But I think it's him who melts Ice and created two new Valyrian steel blades from it. 

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