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Everything posted by Ghost+Nymeria4Eva

  1. Osha? No it's Summer, Bran's direwolf, who sees it. See the quote. It's one of Bran's wolf dreams.
  2. That's not what the other poster asked. It was a question about what if Rhaegar had managed to get his Great Council. Dany not being born would be near inevitable if Aerys was dethroned, which would mean he would be kept separate from his wife. Rhaella would also get the protection of the Kingsguard as the queen mother so she would no longer be hurt by the mad king. On the other hand, saying that there would be dragons without Dany because one of the dead Targs would have managed the same ritual Dany did is very much a fanfic scenario. That's like asking would another have found the direwolves if Jon had not existed? Would another Stark become a greenseer and a 3EC if Bran had not existed? Would another Night's Watch brother kill the wight if Jon had never been there? No. These things were done by specific people under unique circumstances. We can say that Robert would have found another Hand if Ned had said no, or that Cersei would have married someone else if the Rebellion had not happened. That's because those things were bound to happen regardless, unlike the earlier scenarios that happen only because of specific people. 1. She stole money or sold the dragon eggs to someone else. 2. If he bought the dragon eggs from Elissa, why in the world would he cut the debts to the Targs, considering he'd already paid for the eggs? He didn't make any transactions with Targs directly. Why would he deny making the purchase? Didn't Barth negotiate the reduction of the debts anyway? (Maybe GRRM intends to give Dany's eggs a Targ origin, or maybe he would make them to be from Asshai as originally intended. We would have to wait for the story to conclude. Until then, it's premature to assume that is the case considering GRRM backtracked on giving this official confirmation.) Egg at this point is a small child who's repeating a juicy piece of gossip he's heard. That doesn't make it a fact that actually happened. No, the "whispering stars" tell her the same riddle Quaithe did in Qarth. So she asks if it's Quaithe. The stars whisper in a woman's voice, which Dany doesn't recognize as Quaithe's at all. Otherwise, she would have thought that the stars whispered in Quaithe's voice. Dany sees the ghosts of old kings with different shades of blonde hair and different colored eyes (corresponding to the colors of Yi To emperors). None of the kings have mismatched eyes like Shiera does (Tyrion has mismatched eyes too). She doesn't see any stars. She hears the whispering of stars but they are just whispering noise, and doesn't say anything specific. Dany certainly doesn't remember any stars whispering when she's about the light the pyre. Maybe the whispering stars are important because it's a symbol that refers to a divine power that these masked people in Asshai also worship? Like fire to R'hllor or the sea to the Drowned God. Or perhaps it's the Essoi version of whispering weirwoods? That's a logic leap. If this sorcerer knew how to hatch dragons, why didn't she do it herself? Why would she need Dany? No. No clues whatsoever except to say that the "dragon has three heads." It may refer to three dragons with separate riders, the nature of dragons, or the Targ symbol. The whole thing is too vague to assume anything specific. Also, the Stallion prophesy most likely refers to Drogon (thunderous wings, huge shadow, etc). That is, unless, it did refer to Rhaego and is no longer valid because Rhaego is no more. We barely know who Sheira was, except that she was a popular socialite who was loved by Brynden Rivers. Nothing in the books indicate that she had knowledge of anything magic, much less she knew how to live for over a hundred years without being attached to a weirwood tree. The comet is interpreted to be many things in the books. The Undying even claim that they sent the comet to show Dany the way. Why would this not be true? Also, the prophesy says Azhor Ahai is "reborn"--not born--as the Red Star bleeds. Dany went into the fire and her not getting burned is seen as a sort of "rebirth." Rhaego was a stillbirth, meaning he's never born and dies in Dany's womb. If Jon goes through a similar ritual to become the PtwP, he'd have to go through with it before the comet disappears (unless it already has). Huh? What makes you so certain that the books make it "obvious"? In ACoK, Dany is shows three deaths as the "daughter of death" and a horse was not one of them. Absolutely not. Go read that scene again. Dany's already in the fire for some time and her top even burns off before the first dragon egg cracks. It also happens after she sees Drogo on his stallion rides off into the nightlands and she thinks "now, now." So GRRM is here writing unnecessary scenes because he just needs to make things look dramatic? Lol. Like, dragons being born after extinction wouldn't be dramatic enough? No, she's not fireproof, but she (and possibly other Targs) have a fire affinity. In F&B GRRM hints that Targs may actually be more resistant to heat compared to non-Targs. Dany can tolerate more heat than what's considered normal. Similarly, Ned Stark seems to be able to tolerate more cold than normal, as Catelyn observes. I'm all for fan theories, but you are not presenting convincing evidence for Shiera/Quaithe thing. Also, it's really not related to what I mentioned in the earlier post.
  3. No one knows that Tyrion had a wife back in the Westerlands a decade or so ago. People in Casterly Rock or the area may know (because gossip), but no reason to believe anyone at KL knew that Tyrion was ever married. Tywin makes sure that the marriage ends before anyone knows it happened (and also before Tysha gets pregnant). Legal marriage should technically give the each spouse some property rights, so it's not a just a social construct. But not sure what these are in Westeros. In Qarth, we know that there are unique gift exchanging customs between the spouses. GRRM never specifies these things for Westeros. Non-consummation is the only way to annul a marriage, rather than the easiest way. Irl, some jurisdictions allow a marriage to be annulled if the couple is close blood relatives. In Westeros, incest doesn't have a blanket ban. Setting aside a marriage is probably the Westerosi term for divorce. I think things like unfaithfulness, deception, criminal acts (treason) are grounds for a divorce. But Robert, as you said, has king's authority and could declare his own marriage dissolved. Pretty much all highborn marriages are decided for political reasons to make alliances. If these alliances are no longer of any use, I'm sure there's a way for the lords and kings to get rid of their unwanted spouses. As for the Ironborn, they have a rock wife (an ironborn) and many salt wives (kidnapped women). This is perfectly fine because the Ironborn follow the Drowned God, not the Seven. Only the Seven so far demands monogamous marriage. The Old Gods, maybe, considering Ned only has one wife (or because Catelyn follows the Seven). The Targs could enter polygamous or polyandrous marriages in accordance with their native customs. So in Westeros there's king's law, where the king can make up the law as they like, but also social customs based on religion. Marriage most likely falls under jurisdiction of the gods (social custom) rather than the law, which is why we don't see laws for divorce or separation. No one goes to jail for things like abandoning a spouse, which could be a crime if there were actual marriage laws.
  4. No. That's just a what-if fanfic. That still only a possibility. GRRM has been coy on this issue. As for the Sealord, he denies that Farman sold him dragon eggs. There are rumors she was in Asshai, so the eggs might have ended up there and sold to Illyrio. While some people tend to believe in the Farman eggs, it's yet to be confirmed. No one instructed Dany how to hatch dragon eggs. She meets Quaithe after she has hatched dragons. If anything, Dany gets the idea from Mirri Maz Durr's bloodmagic ritual. The Quaithe=Sheira is just a theory, not at all a fact. Sheira Seastar should be dead by now. Three heads of a dragon isn't a prophesy. It might not even truly refer to three people. The prophesy refers to one specific person, not any of the people descending from a certain line. It's not stated as an ability. It's stated as something this person does, Also, the wording of the prophesy might be jumbled anyway. Like how? There were attempts to make dragons return, like Summerhall, none of which succeeded. And if you go by the prophesy, how would the dragons return "years earlier" before the comet actually appears? If the Rebellion didn't happen, Rhaegar would most likely have had that Great Council. Aerys would have been sent for medical care on the account of him being mad. Rhaella would have been kept safe from him. Rhaegar would have protected his mother, but he dies. As explained earlier, the prophesy doesn't refer to "anyone" but "someone" from that line. In any case, Dany hatched the dragons, something no one else so far managed to do, period. Whether someone else might have managed to do the same if Dany never existed only leads to endless and meaningless speculation. Any other would need the bizarre fire affinity Dany has. Nothing in the books indicate that Rhaegar, his children, Aerys, Rahella, or Viserys had or have the same ability.
  5. This is a feudal system where the modern concept of private ownership of land doesn't exist. The land comes under the protection of a lord, who in turn come under the protection of a bigger lord (like House Stark), and these lords in turn are subjects of a king. Does the king "own" the land? Only if he can militarily defend it. People don't need to buy land because they don't need to. Unlike modern times, people can settle down in unclaimed or unused land, unless they are explicitly ordered to leave by someone with a big army. So if you need to build a house or farm, you don't need to buy land. You can settle down anywhere viable as long as you don't get in a lord's crosshairs. Essentially, people don't own land, they claim it. If you have an army, you can lay claim to large swaths of land and make people there pay you tribute. A king doesn't really need to nationalize land because it is free to use, unless explicitly designated otherwise.
  6. Had Rhaegar's Great Council plan gone through, Dany would never have been conceived. She's conceived during the Rebellion, around the time Rhaegar dies or a bit before, and she is born after both Rhaegar and Ares die. In hindsight, had the Rebellion not happened, the world would not have dragons.
  7. I was re-reading Clash and noticed this in the final Bran chapter: This is after Winterfell is sacked by the Boltons. Some structures are set on fire. Bran is hiding in the crypts and sees the fires through Summer's eyes. Summer notices people being scared and things burning, and also this "winged snake" breathing flame. Like, where did the dragon come from? Was it really there, did Summer "imagine" it? Was Bran seeing something from the future that somehow freakishly coincides with the sacking that just happened? Soon afterward, Osha in the crypts says “We made noise enough to wake a dragon" (!). Could there have actually been a dragon that no one notices because people don't look up? Could this possibly tie-into the shadow dragon Dany is told of by the Undying. Perhaps the Broken Tower in Winterfell is the site where the shadow dragon arises. That's just a theory though. Anyone have explanations/theories on this bizarre appearance of a "winged snake"? Update: There's a decade old thread on this here: Perhaps there are newer theories/suggestions?
  8. That's just the thing. Marriage rules for the royals are based on expedience. The septons seem to promote a traditional Christian-style monogamous marriage, but whether it's strictly followed really depends. As you said, Tywin brutally exiles Tysha from Casterly Rock, even if she was Tyrion's lawful wife. Doesn't he get the septon who conducted the ceremony to undo it or something? The rules are different for Targs altogether. It seems that what really keeps most non-Targ marriages going is how wealthy and powerful the wife's family is. Robert is only married to Cersei because of the power and wealth of Casterly Rock. He doesn't kick her out of the castle because he fears Tywin's wrath. Had the Lannisters lost their prestige, I'm sure Cersei would have been quickly replaced with a new bride. The point is, if the king really wanted to get rid of a wife or even take on a new one, there are plenty of ways to do that, mainly by getting the High Septon on his side. It would be fine as long as the first wife's family doesn't rebel. And the smallfolk don't seem to particularly care about it. When Rhaegar ran off with Lyanna, the smallfolk weren't outraged. In their version of the story, Rhaegar "loves" Lady Lyanna, unlike in Robert's version where he kidnaps her.
  9. Where did you read that? It was already in the show. He was one of the First Men who invaded Westeros, got captured, and was subjected to a magical curse. Why would it be surprising that he was scared when the enemy inserts some thing inside him? It's the same story as in dozens of werewolf, vampire, superhero, and Resident Evil movies. Considering it's called "Bloodmoon," the show is probably set in the North, probably near the Wall. It may involve direwolves and Starks. Not sure how they would make it a continent-spanning storyline. They reduced the role of direwolves in GoT so I don't see how they would play a prominent role in the prequel. Ghost was essentially reduced to a pet dog and the other direwolves went off screen fairly quickly.
  10. Renly probably thought Robert might divorce Cersei for a new Lyanna. He couldn't annul that marriage, even if the children were not his own. Perhaps "setting aside" a marriage means a divorce in this world. Also, Robert is a distant Targ relative. So it might be possible for him to take more than one wife. In any case, he's king and can re-make the rules as he goes. A king taking more than one wife would not be without precedent and probably will not face much resistance. I mean, it's Robert and everyone knows he's not a faithful husband.
  11. This should be exciting news but considering they changed so much of the mythology in GoT, my reaction is just "meh." Before S7 began to air, I was excited that the prequel/"successor" shows would delve into things like where the Others came from or how dragons were made. But now we know that some hooman got magiked and dragons were never that important anyway (except for conquest).
  12. Because she doesn't know who they all are, obviously. She kills that baby in the brothel only after Ned exposed it. She may know about Edric Storm but he was in Storm's End and under protection. If she knows of a Baratheon bastard, she kills them. Yes, she does it out of malice. At this point it's not even about protecting her children's claims, it's just out of spite and hatred. She had no reason to order the baby in KL dead, considering it was a girl and didn't have a claim anyway. Yes, but he had no reason to lie about the incident at CR. Ned already knew about Robert's many bastards. Besides, he was suspicious of Cersei already for other reasons. LF has no reason to make it up. It was obviously Cersei, and Tywin may have been aware of the incident. He wouldn't care much anyway, considering he's even worse than Cersei.
  13. Lol. The Jon in the book isn't really like the one in the show. Pretty much all the characters have fundamental differences between the show and book versions. The Starks are a big part but they certainly aren't everything, so you can keep on reading. Also, Arya and Bran chapters are really fun and also dark and the story for them is not exactly as in the show. GRRM is not pushing a Northexit cause here, really. I'd say keep reading even if you hate the Starks. The Essos storyline in the books is quite expansive compared to the show. Unlikable characters isn't really not the issue with the books. Dance with Dragons, the fifth book, ends in a cliifhanger with no release date for the TWoW. So if you are okay with waiting forever for the story to end, then keep on reading. Otherwise, be warned.
  14. There is no way this could happen given that Jon is a sworn brother of the Night's Watch. He cannot become legitimized now, as Ned, his supposed father, is dead. Even if he were alive, Jon cannot legally hold lands or titles anymore. In the books, he's bleeding to death. If he is resurrected as in the show, he would have to convince people that he died and came back to life, so his oath was fulfilled in some manner. I highly doubt this would ever happen. As for the revelation that he is Rhaegar's son, people would definitely demand proof. Ned had the whole realm totally believing Jon is his son (even Tyrion buys it). I don't see how they could be convinced otherwise. Jon might be able to ride a dragon, but I don't know if the lords would take that as proof that he's Rhaegar's son. Even if he manages to convince everyone he's Rhaegar's son, that doesn't make him the "true heir" to the kingdom as in the show. The Targ seat was usurped. When Rhaegar died, Aerys made Viserys his heir, who died without issue. Viserys's heir is said to be Dany. We know fAegon is going to show up sometime, who would be Jon's older brother. If he ascends the throne, even for a short while, fAegon's sons would be heir to the throne, not Jon. Not to mention that fact that in the house of the dragons, Dany has the dragons, which probably makes her the head of the house, woman or not. In any case, Jon is a crow and cannot become king of anywhere (except on the Wall as the Lord Commander). I think Sansa would be lady of the Vale, just not as Harry's wife. Littlefinger might marry her and ascend to the seat. I think there are hints that she kills him. If that happens, she could be the lady of the Vale without husband problems. I think Sansa ceases to be a Stark (foreshadowed by her direwolf's death). I always thought when it all ends, Rickon might end up looking after Winterfell. But it's just a thought and I have nothing in the text to support it.
  15. Daenerys, hands down. The show never managed to do justice to her character. I think she is the only main character whose story underwent major changes from early on. They changed hers and Drogo's love story in S1 (he rapes her on the wedding night). While they did get the part about her being scared and terrified as a girl right, they never managed to show her spirited-ness in any of the seasons. Her story in S2 was so completely different from the books. Her arc in Meereen was devoid of the moral complexity/ambiguity shown in the books. Instead the show directly went to her burning people randomly (in the books, she does feel guilty about the 163, even though they were horrible slavers). The mental brilliance of book Dany is missing in the show, which just wants her to be Mad Queen. (It's also the same with Arya, who is not just a "badass" but a prodigiously smart little girl in the books.) In contrast, Jon's temperament in the show is predictably tepid. Book Jon can become furious and violent (it's justified but he still gets crazy mad, especially in book 1). Part of the changes made to Dany's arc could be because the showrunners decided to cut out the magical elements in the fantasy story. The same stuff about fire magic and prophesies that is important to Dany's arc in the books. Or it could just be that they never really knew how to write a female character with powers that usually male heroes in fantasy have. Or maybe they liked Jon way to much and wanted to give him a super moral reason to kill Dany.
  16. How come no one mentions the Red Messenger, as that's what the common people call it? Also, in the House of the Undying, the Undying tell her that they sent it as a message to her, to show her the way to Qarth. But this could very well be a lie. Different characters do interpret it in different ways. Some uncertainly (when they say s/he "told himself or herself"). I found it interesting that some of these interpretations come close to the truth (those saying messages, dragons, fire and blood are coming), while others are comically off base (Joffery, mainly). But if what the Undying say is true, then none of it is right. But I think the general knowledge of it is probably true. The red comet is a messenger of things to come, of wars, dragons, and also the Others. The wars in Westeros intensify as the comet streaks across the sky. In Clash, there's fire and blood scenarios even without dragons. And there are of course dragons, who have now returned (but no one would be aware of it for a while, only after the red comet is gone to make the connection).
  17. A lot of people keep saying that north will become independent. But I don't see how this could happen. When winter comes, the north would be the most affected considering lacking food supply. The Boltons have taken the castle and WW would start killing people. The North would be the land to be most in need. They really would need southern support to keep themselves fed. So clamoring for independence now would be just stupid. The motto of the North is "the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives." I think rather than kingdoms breaking off, the WW threat would show them that they need to stick together. Aegon I conquered Westeros to unite the land, also based on a prophesy. This might be the reason. When it is all done, I'm not sure if there would be separate kingdoms to rule. Also about Jon becoming king. He's the (dead) Lord Commander of the NW. When WW comes, LC would be the most important leader and kind of like the "king" of the realm of humans, rather than the king of a certain land. Everyone now sees Dany becoming a tyrant too. I fail to see this yet in the books. She will probably deliver fire and blood to the slave masters and Mago. She also has her Euron storyline to complete. Besides, she's dying. She might go further east than anticipated, possibly exploring the Shadow by going underground through tunnels as Quaithe said. Now sure how GRRM plans to cram all the stuff in her threes prophesy storyline to two books. Also, she ends up the bride of fire, so that might mean she has to give herself to the fire as the last prophesied act. I'm not sure whether this "kills" her though. I feel like she might have an ending like the Wisdom in GRRM's short story "Glass Flower." That would actually be better than suddenly going mad and getting killed, making her entire arc really pointless. I think so too. I think Arya has a major role to play in the WW/gods storyline given that she now serves the god of death. I thought she might be the one to tell us about the Doom of Valyria and how all of that plays into the WW storyline. She would probably be instrumental in defeating the WW, just not in the way it was portrayed on the show. I know right! Dany and her dragons are not going to be very tolerant of the cold, about as much as the Starks are going to like the heat of Essos. Dragons I think really need the heat to survive. Dany and her army too would struggle a lot to get used to the climate if they ever end up there. Dany sees herself destroying an army of ice in her visions in the books. I always thought this meant the WW come farther south. Otherwise, how would the dragons--fire made flesh--fare in the wintry cold even native northerners can't bare? I thought the show really messed up this point.
  18. I thought when time comes to fight WW, everyone would just look at the IT and think 'why did we ever even want that thing'? GRRM hints famine for Westeros and plague for Essos in the coming books. When the Others come, this would probably lead to near total devastation. I thought the show would show all the 7 kingdoms completely destroyed. But here pretty much everything is intact after the Great War, including the stupid feudal infighting. My take was that when the WW are defeated, the world wouldn't look the same. It's possible the seasons themselves might change. And there will be a lot of rebuilding to do afterwards, and building things is always harder than destroying things. I thought the sort of bitter feeling at the end of the show, where the heroes win but really lose, is where we are at at the start of ASOIAF. I mean, Rhaegar (possible true hero) is dead, the throne has been usurped, dragons are gone, people are fighting--everything is essentially going wrong. I thought Dany getting her dragons was hope returning that the warmbloods would have a fighting chance. And there's also Jon becoming the Lord Commander, which should have been the most important post in the world when the WW came, not some throne anywhere. The Lord Commander of the NW should have been the most important man on the planet. There's also Bran's warg powers, where he can see into the heart of winter and all that. But if what we saw in the show is where GRRM is really going, then I'm not sure if the books would be worth the wait. It looks like the mystical stuff and the gods would play a side role, kind of like sprinkles on top, but without adding much substance. And Dany and her dragons are bad after all. Jon is just the everyman hero. I was most excited for Arya, but it all seems to kinda fall flat. I used to be upset that GRRM might never finish the books. But now I'm kinda glad that he probably won't. It was really the show that kept the enthusiasm for the books alive. It aired like every year so no one could forget about the books. Now that the show has ended really bitterly, I can't be really excited for the remaining books. I mean, we want to be blown away by the new revelations, not be left confused and bitter about all of it.
  19. I know right! Even if what we saw was the "broad strokes" of the ending GRRM has planned, I felt like what was really the point of it all? I mean, we can get the same drama just reading the news. And I feel that GRRM is going to give a vague ending to the gods/magic stuff in the books that have intrigued a lot of readers. I kinda feel like a gambling addict, waiting for a major payoff in the end, when all I've been doing is giving myself a mental illness. :'(
  20. Oh wow, I guess people who are victimized don't have a choice but to end up with a "flawed personality"? Inbreeding really? So my point is right? Viserys doesn't sexually abuse her. And there's no point in books or the show that Dany is told that Targs are gods. She was literally in exile because she is a Targ.
  21. No. That would mean Gendry is fated to become a drunken whoremonger, Tormund will revert to being a mindless violent thug, Yara a merciless reaver. But isn't that already happening? Gendry is rejected by Arya and ends up with a lordship he doesn't want, much like his daddy. Tormund is back in the north by himself. And there's nothing to say that the ironborne wouldn't just go back to the way they were when all this war business is done.
  22. Could the theme be that you are your DNA? Your genetics is your destiny. I mean modern fantasy has kind of been about rising above your circumstances. Like, the hero may have bad parents or something like that, but (mostly) he is not his parents or birth. But one way to subvert expectations is to say that, nah, you have always been what you inherited. I mean, Dany knows her dad went mad. She learns about the extent of his madness and cruelty from Jorah. But in the end, despite her good intentions, she can't overcome her bloodline. She succumbs like it's how she's programmed. And contrast that to the Starks, who are always good. All Targs are violent or mad, but some were good. But all Starks are good, except for some bad apples. Other houses have these traits too. Lannisters have always been greedy and conniving, starting with Lann the clever. I mean, Dany and Jon have similar goals, both personal and political. They both want to feel accepted, loved, and fit in. They both want to save the world. But it's Dany who somehow goes mad like her father before her.
  23. @asimetrikal Right, I think you are making the mistake of applying real-world genetics to GRRM's magical fantasy series. Of course, if the dragon-riding ability was genuinely genetic, then there would be a lot of people around the world who can ride dragons, especially given the fact that Valyria was an empire. You do make an interesting point a about circular logic. But I'd say you might be able to ride a dragon if you have Valyrian blood, but if you can ride a dragon, then you do have Valyrian blood. The ability to have dragons is also affected by certain actions like kinslaying. In Dance, Targs kill other Targs, and the dragons that are born afterwards are weaker. Eventually, all the dragons die out as Targ infighting intensifies and they increasingly marry outside their family. (There's also a conspiracy theory that people who hate magic--maesters-- might be cursing them). Rather than genes, this whole thing is probably governed by sacrificial blood magic. The dragonlords marry their kin, but they also sacrifice their kin (not killing them, but offering them to the fire). Dany's dragons are born after she sacrifices her son to that magic spell. The miscarriages show signs of blood sacrifices like the one Dany experiences with Rhaego. Now if a Targ marry a Baratheon, a beloved relative from the latter's family doesn't go into the fire as a sacrifice. That may play a role in how the magic ability "gets diluted." I wouldn't worry too much about how genetics carry the blood magic gene. GRRM might have intended genes to play a role, but some thirty years ago he might have gotten the science wrong. After all, he came up with the idea that Cersei's children couldn't possibly be Baratheons simply because they don't have black hair, and that all Baratheon bastards absolutely must have black hair. Some ADwD quotes: This one is from the scene where Dany has had it with the fighting pits and wants to go away and close the pits: Some quotes. It may seem like I'm cherry picking but during re-reads I thought Dany's connection to Drogon was more of a will thing. At first, it seems like Drogon shows up at the fighting pit to feast on the flesh, drawn by the blood (apparently the noises don't deter him?). And then at the Dothraki sea, Dany seemingly has a hard time commanding Drogon to go where she wants to go because he is a dragon and not a horse. But on re-reads I thought, it could have been Dany's desperation that drives Drogon to the pit, considering that on the Dothraki sea, there's plenty of food. He isn't drawn to the city because of meat any time before. Also, Dany keeps telling herself she has to go back to Meereen, though she really hates it. What if it's her uncertainty that prevents getting Drogon there? And her true desire keeps her in the Dothraki sea, a place that's she's always loved to be at (on dragonback she loves it even more so). Read the last two chapters for Dany and see if you can discern a connection of this sort. Of course, I might be completely wrong. it's just a hunch that I got during re-reads. In AWOIAF, The Rise of Valyria chapter I think has a bunch of stuff about dragons. The info is scattered all over the place so that's the problem. If you can search your ebook for Nettles, it would take you to the description about dragonseeds. I don't have Fire&Blood. Try to search for Septon Barth, he offers dragon tidbits here and there. Most people get their info about sacrificial magic reading the AWOIAF chapters on places like Asshai, Qohor, etc. There's info about how blood sacrifices are done and how sorcerers try to make hybrid creatures in Bones and Beyond and Beyond the Free Cities chapters. The info is sparse and all over the place, so it's more of a connect the dots game. Links to old threads about the magical origins/creation of dragons: Off topic, are you using a mobile device or something to reply? because I can't quote your posts and it's got this weird formatting.
  24. I think this was something that was discussed at length on this forum--whether non-Targs could ride dragons. So blood of Old Valyria means those who descend from the old dragonlords of Valyria. After the Doom happened, only one dragonlord family is left: the Targs on Dragonstone. There is no cultural taboo or anything regarding who could ride dragons. In AWOIAF, it's shown that there were wild (non claimed) dragons on Dragonstone. No one tries to claim them. There's some type of contest that a Targ prince commissions to find riders for these dragons during the Dance. At the time, both dragons and Targs were dying. Only one baseborn rider manages to tame one of the dragons. Some people have taken this as proof non Targs could ride dragons. But GRRM pointedly mentions that on Dragonstone there's all these "dragonseed"-- essentially illegitimate children fathered by Targ princes. It's mentioned that many of them can rightfully claim Targ heritage. Nettles, the dragonseed, doesn't have the telltale Valyrian looks either. She kind of looks like Arya. This is probably a big hint regarding Jon's heritage, before it was officially outed, that Jon is a half Targ who just looks a lot like his mother. When dragons did exist, we never see anyone without Valyrian heritage riding one. Valyrians get into all these wars with other powerful groups. No one ever captures or rides these dragons. Back in Westeros, when dragons are in the pit, you don't have anyone like handlers riding or training the dragons. You know, like horses. Only the Valyrians can do so. I've seen early theories as you say that Targs imposed cultural taboos that prevented others from riding a dragon. But it's hard to maintain considering how desirable dragons are. It doesn't explain how rich Essosi merchants didn't pay people to steal baby dragons so they could ride them. I mean some literally grew in the wild, unguarded, on Dragonstone, so grabbing one wouldn't have been that difficult. When Dany goes to Qarth, Xaro really wants one of her dragons. But he doesn't steal one, and only asks Dany to willingly give him one. First, he tries to marry Dany and get a dragon as a wedding gift. Then there's poor Quentyn Martell, who dies trying to tame Viserion or Rhaegal. He thinks he does everything right but the dragons only listen to Dany. GRRM strongly hints a magical reason for this. Targs say dragons are their kin. So there are lots of fan theories out there about how dragons and humans could have "magically melded." Valyrian sphinxes are another hint. Regular sphinxes are normal showing features of three creatures. But Valyrian ones show head of a human and a body of a dragon. And it goes further in Fire&Blood. There's this story about a Targ princess who takes off on Balerion. No one knows where she went, but she returns incredibly sickly. Septon Barth tends to her, but he is horrified by her weird illness. Her body temperature gets so hot as to cook her skin. And the septon sees these creatures in her belly: worm-like things with human faces. And remember Dany's baby, who has lizard skin and bat wings. There are similar miscarriages down the Targ line, where babies are born with wyrm-human features and never survive. Anyway, all this points to blood magic that makes it possible to ride dragons. They are not normal, rideable creatures like horses. They are significantly magical, much like direwolves who can warg with Starks and greenseers. So these two families have some type of magical blood that makes these fantastic skills possible. It's a personal theory from Dany's ADwD chapters. When Dany rides Drogon, she realizes that usual tricks used with horses, like whips and nudging, don't work with Drogon. Dany is an expert horserider so she knows her stuff here. She doesn't really know how to control him. However, Drogon manages to get her where she wants to go. He comes to her when she needs him, like in Daznak's pit, where Dany really doesn't want to stay and actually says take me away. I don't have the quotes right now, I'd have to re-read and attach. I thought it indicated that the dragon follows the rider's will. That's why we don't really see dragonriders use equipment like horse riders do. Fun fact: Dany remembers dragon horns out of nowhere in ADwD, which supposedly controlled dragons. The book introduces the Dragonbinder, a magic horn Euron says can bind a dragon to him. However, dragon horns are not mentioned anywhere else in the series or the supplement books. It's never mentioned that dragonlords of old Valyria used horns or whips to control dragons. The Targs never do either (otherwise their family would have possessed several of these). Technically, non-Targs can ride dragons as long as they have the blood of Old Valyria. Of course, as these bloodlines get diluted, not everyone gets the ability to ride a dragon. The rule so far as we can discern goes like this: being a Targ doesn't guarantee that you can be a dragonrider, but you can never be a dragonrider without the blood of Old Valyria. I tried to find the old threads, but don't know how to search the forums. They were here before the site got a revamp. Here's the link to the princess with human wyrms in her: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Aerea_Targaryen This is a theory video about the origin of dragons, which may explain how only the blood of Old Valyria can ride them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5Ae4yvEHrE
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