Ghost+Nymeria4Eva
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Posts posted by Ghost+Nymeria4Eva
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15 minutes ago, Megorova said:
There would have still been dragons, even without Dany, only instead of Dany, their mother would have been Rhaenys,
No. That's just a what-if fanfic.
19 minutes ago, Megorova said:Three dragon eggs, from which hatched Drogon, Rhaegal and Viserion were Targaryen dragon eggs, that were stolen by Elissa Farman,
That still only a possibility. GRRM has been coy on this issue. As for the Sealord, he denies that Farman sold him dragon eggs. There are rumors she was in Asshai, so the eggs might have ended up there and sold to Illyrio. While some people tend to believe in the Farman eggs, it's yet to be confirmed.
21 minutes ago, Megorova said:The one, who instructed Dany, what should be done, to hatch dragon eggs, was Shiera Seastar/Quaithe,
No one instructed Dany how to hatch dragon eggs. She meets Quaithe after she has hatched dragons. If anything, Dany gets the idea from Mirri Maz Durr's bloodmagic ritual.
The Quaithe=Sheira is just a theory, not at all a fact. Sheira Seastar should be dead by now.
25 minutes ago, Megorova said:Three heads of the dragon from the prophecy
Three heads of a dragon isn't a prophesy. It might not even truly refer to three people.
Quoteor Azor Ahai reborn, or the Promised Prince was/were supposed to be born from the line of Jaehaerys II, so any of his descendants could have hatched a dragon,
The prophesy refers to one specific person, not any of the people descending from a certain line.
27 minutes ago, Megorova said:according to the prophecy, to make dragons return, is one of TPTWP abilities (that - to wake dragons from stone, and to wield Lightbringer sword).
It's not stated as an ability. It's stated as something this person does, Also, the wording of the prophesy might be jumbled anyway.
29 minutes ago, Megorova said:If the Rebellion didn't happened, then the dragons would have returned years earlier.
Like how? There were attempts to make dragons return, like Summerhall, none of which succeeded. And if you go by the prophesy, how would the dragons return "years earlier" before the comet actually appears?
31 minutes ago, Megorova said:If there would have been no Dany (though she could have still been born, even if there was no Robert's Rebellion. Because Rhaella was still fertile), then those eggs would have been hatched by any other person from Jaehaerys' line.
If the Rebellion didn't happen, Rhaegar would most likely have had that Great Council. Aerys would have been sent for medical care on the account of him being mad. Rhaella would have been kept safe from him. Rhaegar would have protected his mother, but he dies. As explained earlier, the prophesy doesn't refer to "anyone" but "someone" from that line.
In any case, Dany hatched the dragons, something no one else so far managed to do, period. Whether someone else might have managed to do the same if Dany never existed only leads to endless and meaningless speculation. Any other would need the bizarre fire affinity Dany has. Nothing in the books indicate that Rhaegar, his children, Aerys, Rahella, or Viserys had or have the same ability.
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13 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:
Who really owns all lands in Westeros ?
Would it possible to buy land in Westeros?
After all in really feodal system king owns all land and everyone else has only weaker or stronger "claim" of land. Or in theory king could "nationalize" all land. Naturally any king who would try to do that would almost certainly have massive problems like rebellions and assassins send hunting him.
This is a feudal system where the modern concept of private ownership of land doesn't exist. The land comes under the protection of a lord, who in turn come under the protection of a bigger lord (like House Stark), and these lords in turn are subjects of a king. Does the king "own" the land? Only if he can militarily defend it.
People don't need to buy land because they don't need to. Unlike modern times, people can settle down in unclaimed or unused land, unless they are explicitly ordered to leave by someone with a big army. So if you need to build a house or farm, you don't need to buy land. You can settle down anywhere viable as long as you don't get in a lord's crosshairs.
Essentially, people don't own land, they claim it. If you have an army, you can lay claim to large swaths of land and make people there pay you tribute.
A king doesn't really need to nationalize land because it is free to use, unless explicitly designated otherwise.
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On 6/13/2019 at 9:18 PM, LadyOfCastamere said:
If Rhaegar had been successful in dethroning Aerys due to his mental illness and become King himself, he would've later on most likely taken Dany as his second wife. Lyanna wouldve been married to Robert and no war would've taken place.
Had Rhaegar's Great Council plan gone through, Dany would never have been conceived. She's conceived during the Rebellion, around the time Rhaegar dies or a bit before, and she is born after both Rhaegar and Ares die. In hindsight, had the Rebellion not happened, the world would not have dragons.
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A lot of people keep saying that north will become independent. But I don't see how this could happen. When winter comes, the north would be the most affected considering lacking food supply. The Boltons have taken the castle and WW would start killing people. The North would be the land to be most in need. They really would need southern support to keep themselves fed. So clamoring for independence now would be just stupid.
The motto of the North is "the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives." I think rather than kingdoms breaking off, the WW threat would show them that they need to stick together. Aegon I conquered Westeros to unite the land, also based on a prophesy. This might be the reason.
When it is all done, I'm not sure if there would be separate kingdoms to rule. Also about Jon becoming king. He's the (dead) Lord Commander of the NW. When WW comes, LC would be the most important leader and kind of like the "king" of the realm of humans, rather than the king of a certain land.
Everyone now sees Dany becoming a tyrant too. I fail to see this yet in the books. She will probably deliver fire and blood to the slave masters and Mago. She also has her Euron storyline to complete. Besides, she's dying. She might go further east than anticipated, possibly exploring the Shadow by going underground through tunnels as Quaithe said. Now sure how GRRM plans to cram all the stuff in her threes prophesy storyline to two books. Also, she ends up the bride of fire, so that might mean she has to give herself to the fire as the last prophesied act. I'm not sure whether this "kills" her though. I feel like she might have an ending like the Wisdom in GRRM's short story "Glass Flower." That would actually be better than suddenly going mad and getting killed, making her entire arc really pointless.
4 hours ago, The Coconut God said:I think we have pretty good reasons to dismiss that Arya will be doing any of those things. So then the question becomes, what is Arya going to do? Clearly it is connected to something that was cut from the show.
I think so too. I think Arya has a major role to play in the WW/gods storyline given that she now serves the god of death. I thought she might be the one to tell us about the Doom of Valyria and how all of that plays into the WW storyline. She would probably be instrumental in defeating the WW, just not in the way it was portrayed on the show.
1 hour ago, Maia said:I don't see Dany's forces marching up north through the snows in the depth of winter - they are all unused to the cold and there would be very little fodder too
I know right! Dany and her dragons are not going to be very tolerant of the cold, about as much as the Starks are going to like the heat of Essos. Dragons I think really need the heat to survive. Dany and her army too would struggle a lot to get used to the climate if they ever end up there. Dany sees herself destroying an army of ice in her visions in the books. I always thought this meant the WW come farther south. Otherwise, how would the dragons--fire made flesh--fare in the wintry cold even native northerners can't bare? I thought the show really messed up this point.
Small Questions v. 10106
in General (ASoIaF)
Posted
That's not what the other poster asked. It was a question about what if Rhaegar had managed to get his Great Council. Dany not being born would be near inevitable if Aerys was dethroned, which would mean he would be kept separate from his wife. Rhaella would also get the protection of the Kingsguard as the queen mother so she would no longer be hurt by the mad king.
On the other hand, saying that there would be dragons without Dany because one of the dead Targs would have managed the same ritual Dany did is very much a fanfic scenario. That's like asking would another have found the direwolves if Jon had not existed? Would another Stark become a greenseer and a 3EC if Bran had not existed? Would another Night's Watch brother kill the wight if Jon had never been there? No. These things were done by specific people under unique circumstances. We can say that Robert would have found another Hand if Ned had said no, or that Cersei would have married someone else if the Rebellion had not happened. That's because those things were bound to happen regardless, unlike the earlier scenarios that happen only because of specific people.
1. She stole money or sold the dragon eggs to someone else. 2. If he bought the dragon eggs from Elissa, why in the world would he cut the debts to the Targs, considering he'd already paid for the eggs? He didn't make any transactions with Targs directly. Why would he deny making the purchase? Didn't Barth negotiate the reduction of the debts anyway?
(Maybe GRRM intends to give Dany's eggs a Targ origin, or maybe he would make them to be from Asshai as originally intended. We would have to wait for the story to conclude. Until then, it's premature to assume that is the case considering GRRM backtracked on giving this official confirmation.)
Egg at this point is a small child who's repeating a juicy piece of gossip he's heard. That doesn't make it a fact that actually happened.
No, the "whispering stars" tell her the same riddle Quaithe did in Qarth. So she asks if it's Quaithe. The stars whisper in a woman's voice, which Dany doesn't recognize as Quaithe's at all. Otherwise, she would have thought that the stars whispered in Quaithe's voice.
Dany sees the ghosts of old kings with different shades of blonde hair and different colored eyes (corresponding to the colors of Yi To emperors). None of the kings have mismatched eyes like Shiera does (Tyrion has mismatched eyes too). She doesn't see any stars. She hears the whispering of stars but they are just whispering noise, and doesn't say anything specific. Dany certainly doesn't remember any stars whispering when she's about the light the pyre.
Maybe the whispering stars are important because it's a symbol that refers to a divine power that these masked people in Asshai also worship? Like fire to R'hllor or the sea to the Drowned God. Or perhaps it's the Essoi version of whispering weirwoods?
That's a logic leap. If this sorcerer knew how to hatch dragons, why didn't she do it herself? Why would she need Dany?
No. No clues whatsoever except to say that the "dragon has three heads." It may refer to three dragons with separate riders, the nature of dragons, or the Targ symbol. The whole thing is too vague to assume anything specific. Also, the Stallion prophesy most likely refers to Drogon (thunderous wings, huge shadow, etc). That is, unless, it did refer to Rhaego and is no longer valid because Rhaego is no more.
We barely know who Sheira was, except that she was a popular socialite who was loved by Brynden Rivers. Nothing in the books indicate that she had knowledge of anything magic, much less she knew how to live for over a hundred years without being attached to a weirwood tree.
The comet is interpreted to be many things in the books. The Undying even claim that they sent the comet to show Dany the way. Why would this not be true?
Also, the prophesy says Azhor Ahai is "reborn"--not born--as the Red Star bleeds. Dany went into the fire and her not getting burned is seen as a sort of "rebirth." Rhaego was a stillbirth, meaning he's never born and dies in Dany's womb. If Jon goes through a similar ritual to become the PtwP, he'd have to go through with it before the comet disappears (unless it already has).
Huh?
What makes you so certain that the books make it "obvious"? In ACoK, Dany is shows three deaths as the "daughter of death" and a horse was not one of them.
Absolutely not. Go read that scene again. Dany's already in the fire for some time and her top even burns off before the first dragon egg cracks. It also happens after she sees Drogo on his stallion rides off into the nightlands and she thinks "now, now."
So GRRM is here writing unnecessary scenes because he just needs to make things look dramatic? Lol. Like, dragons being born after extinction wouldn't be dramatic enough?
No, she's not fireproof, but she (and possibly other Targs) have a fire affinity. In F&B GRRM hints that Targs may actually be more resistant to heat compared to non-Targs. Dany can tolerate more heat than what's considered normal. Similarly, Ned Stark seems to be able to tolerate more cold than normal, as Catelyn observes.
I'm all for fan theories, but you are not presenting convincing evidence for Shiera/Quaithe thing. Also, it's really not related to what I mentioned in the earlier post.