Alexis-something-Rose

46 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

Wait what? 

Waymar Royce died fighting, so I would definitely say he died in battle.

I thought this had potential to come back and bite me because I wasn't sure I had expressed properly what I was trying to say. So take two.

"The reason I didn't post the rest of the quote is because Waymar Royce wasn't in battle in that moment. So even if he was wielding Lightbringer, the sword wasn't gonna be burning fiery hot because he wasn't fighting."

Lightbringer allegedly burns fiery hot in battle, which Waymar wasn't doing at that point. 

I did notice the ice to fire, fire to ice transitions with the prologues. But for me it was more about where the chapters are taking place.

AGoT -- north of the Wall (ice), ACoK -- Dragonstone (fire), ASoS -- Fist of the First Men (ice), AFfC -- Oldtown (fire, because of the Hightower that's literally compared to a flaming sword), ADwD -- North of the Wall (ice)

Quote

It is certainly interesting! As is your nicely written piece there. I don't know that I agree with all of it, but I enjoyed it.

Thank you! I definitely appreciate that. 

2 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

After all, the next line is:

In battle the blade burned fiery hot. Once Azor Ahai fought a monster. When he thrust the sword through the belly of the beast, its blood began to boil. Smoke and steam poured from its mouth, its eyes melted and dribbled down its cheeks, and its body burst into flame.

The reason I didn't post the rest of the quote is because Waymar Royce wasn't in battle. So even if he was wielding Lightbringer, the sword wasn't gonna be burning fiery hot. I'm assuming that the Other knew exactly what sort of sign he was looking for before he engaged, backed off, got his brothers to join him in the fight.

2 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

And that, the Red Sword of Heroes is one and the same blade as the original Ice.

I think the sword has gone by several names. I think there's a really interesting passage in the text that associates the Red Sword with sacrifice and Ice.

That night she lay upon her thin blanket on the hard ground, staring up at the great red comet. The comet was splendid and scary all at once. "The Red Sword," the Bull named it; he claimed it looked like a sword, the blade still red-hot from the forge. When Arya squinted the right way she could see the sword too, only it wasn't a new sword, it was Ice, her father's greatsword, all ripply Valyrian steel, and the red was Lord Eddard's blood on the blade after Ser Ilyn the King's Justice had cut off his head. (Arya I, ACoK)

The concept of the Red Sword is introduced nine chapters before we find out the story about the Red Sword of Heroes, or Lightbringer. 

Gendry called the comet the Red Sword and compared it to the blade still red-hot from the forge. What happened after Azor Ahai finished making his blade for the third time? He sacrificed Nissa Nissa. When Arya looks up, what she sees Ice, covered with her father's blood. 

I have more on this here, if you are interested.

The way GRRM wrote this is really interesting.

On 3/2/2022 at 5:20 PM, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Cant help but wonder if they were looking for something specific in the sword, didn't find it and then cut up the kid because he wasn't who they were looking for.

This comes from hindsight and five books.

The description of Waymar's sword gives away what the Other is looking for. 

The Other halted. Will saw its eyes; blue, deeper and bluer than any human eyes, a blue that burned like ice. They fixed on the longsword trembling on high, watched the moonlight running cold along the metal. (Prologue, AGoT)

The moonlight is running cold along the metal.

Description of Lightbringer from the Jade Compendium;

"I looked at that book Maester Aemon left me. The Jade Compendium. The pages that told of Azor Ahai. Lightbringer was his sword. Tempered with his wife's blood if Votar can be believed. Thereafter Lighbringer was never cold to the touch, but warm as Nissa Nissa had been warm." (Jon III, ADwD 10)

This is what the Other is looking for. Waymar's sword is cold. Just like Stannis's Lightbringer is. The real Lightbringer should be a warm sword. The Others cannot stand against against Lightbringer/dragonsteel.

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

The idea of Cold Hands being Night's King has been brought forward before, but while posting my Brandon Stark and Last Hero theory, something occured to me about him.

I think there's one thing about Coldhands that we can take to the bank and that's that he speaks or at the very least understands the true tongue because the ravens are able to communicate with him. 

This takes place at Craster's Keep. Ghost is sniffing at Gilly who is terrified. And there's this exchange that follows.

"I'm no lord.

But others had come crowding round, drawn by the woman's scream and the crash of the rabbit hutch. "Don't you believe him, girl," called out Lark the Sisterman, a ranger mean as a cur. "That's Lord Snow himself."

"Bastard of Winterfell and brother to kingS," mocked Chett, who'd left his hounds to see what the commotion was about. 

I thought this was a fun exchange. Chett says that Jon is brother to kings. And it's mocking, but it's actually very meaningful, imo, because Jon is brother to more than one king. He is brother to kings.

I know most people take it as canon that Young Griff is a Blackfyre. But there's more stuff that indicates that he's exactly the opposite of that. Jon's half-brother was the king in the north. And if RLJ is confirmed, then the alleged Aegon is also Jon's half-brother, which would make Jon brother to kings. 

I think the truth of Jon's parentage will either be out or Jon will already know about it. So if Bran becomes king (which I have very serious doubts about), then he and Jon will be cousins by then, not half-brothers.

On 2/12/2022 at 3:52 PM, Corvo the Crow said:

Others don't attack Ser Waymar until he challenges them. They could've easily charged him with their higher number and superior weapons or even taken him unawares but they make their presence known and only attack after Waymar challenges them.

The Other attacks Waymar only after he has a good look at the sword Waymar is using.

Going through quote collecting for an essay that I'm looking to write on the Long Night when I remembered this quote from the Mystery Knight;

"I'm not stupid, ser." Egg lowered his voice. "Someday the dragons will return. My brother Daeron's dreamed of it, and King Aerys read it in a prophecy. Maybe it will be my egg that hatches. That would be splendid."

So I never even connected that the prophecy alluded to in this tiny line is actually about the waking dragons from stone part of the Azor Ahai prophecy. 

Then everything goes to hell at Summerhall, with the GoHH telling Jaehaerys that the prince that was promised was going to come from Rhaella/Aerys's line, Egg trying to hatch the dragon eggs, probably including his own and Rhaegar's birth. 

GRRM is planting those seeds for Summerhall.

It's about the places that Brandon the Builder is rumored to have build, had a hand in building, made recommendations for. North to south:

• The Wall -- A place of ice, woven with old magic that dotsn't allow the monsters to pass.
• Winterfell -- A place of both ice and fire because of the hot springs.
• Storm's End -- A place of salt with walls woven with old spells that ward magic. Melisandre had to be rowed past the walls to birth her monstrosity. 
• The Hightower -- A place of fire. Even described as a flaming sword in the prologue of AFfC.

It seems like Storm's End and the Hightower could be a lot more strategic to the endgame than we might think. We have one POV in Oldtown and we'll have two at Storm's End. I'd even go as far as to say that because of the battle that will take outside its walls, Storm's End will become a place of both smoke and salt.

On 1/29/2022 at 1:48 PM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I think it goes further than Rhaegar. 

"The dragon must have three heads," he wailed, "but I am too old and grail to be one of them. I should be with her, showing her the way, but my body has betrayed me."

This is from Maester Aemon in AFfC. Given Maester Aemon's age when he died, I think that this is something that goes way way back and something that was passed down to Rhaegar.

I think it's got to do with heroes as opposed to actual dragons, since Rhaegar mentions the whole "there must be one more" in the HotU, it seems to indicate that he's talking about a person, not an actual dragon since there were none at all when Aegon was born.

About this, btw, when Dany is in the HotU, after she's done going through the doors and right before she gets those triads (daughter of death, slayer of lies, bride of fire) the disembodied voices start with "Three heads has the dragon."

5 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Perhaps Aemon filled his head with all that nonsense. He has more crazy stuff in his head than some little green geezer living in a bog.

I would have loved to see what was in Aemon's head. Now we have to wait for Sam to trickle it down. He'll start telling us something, then he'll inevitably get interrupted or yawn and go to bed. 

About the whole nonsense thing. Most magical things in the story can be treated as nonsense. If we hadn't seen Dany walk into the pyre and come out alive, unburnt with three baby dragons, we'd probaby dismiss it as nonsense. Ditto the Others and the wights, what happened at the Fist of the First Men, Beric Dondarrion and Lady Stoneheart's resurrections, Melisandre birthing shadow assassin babies and so on.

House Targaryen is driven by visions and prophecy. The conquest was more than likely driven by that as well, so it's entirely possible that the choice of heraldry has to do with that as well. And twenty out of six-seven years that Aemon spent on the Wall were spent with Bloodraven and he was his counsellor for thirteen of those. If Bloodraven told Aemon things that he later passed on to Rhaegar, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as nonsense. 

I know the answer is more serious than it should be. Sorry about that.

18 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I agree that it might be a red herring as in there won't be three dragons but three heros perhaps. but don't you think it's really weird that Rhaegar based his three heads necessity on their relatively new symbol? when Aegon  and his sisters put up the three headed dragon as their sigil everybody thought it's because there's three of them.. but maybe three was actually a unique number for the Targaryens.. perhaps something related to the prophecy that Rhaegar had found? I mean.. he can't be that stupid

I think it goes further than Rhaegar. 

"The dragon must have three heads," he wailed, "but I am too old and grail to be one of them. I should be with her, showing her the way, but my body has betrayed me."

This is from Maester Aemon in AFfC. Given Maester Aemon's age when he died, I think that this is something that goes way way back and something that was passed down to Rhaegar.

I think it's got to do with heroes as opposed to actual dragons, since Rhaegar mentions the whole "there must be one more" in the HotU, it seems to indicate that he's talking about a person, not an actual dragon since there were none at all when Aegon was born.

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

There’s another queen who never was aside from Rhaenys and Daena: Daenora, Rhaegal’s daughter and Maekar’s niece. She gave birth to Aerion’s son, Maegor, during Maekar’s reign, so she would have still been alive when Aerys I died. But she was passed over, and the crown went to her father’s younger brother instead.

The super interesting thing about Daenora is that she is Arryn down her mother's side, making her son Arryn by blood. So him getting passed over at the Great Council might not have sat all that well with House Arryn. 

This doesn't feel like a coincidence. Maybe Jon Arryn wasn't just trying to protect Ned and Robert when Aerys called for their heads but was also acting on an old grievance.

"He came to save the realm, my lord, Davos insisted. "To defend your lands against the ironborn and the wildlings."

Next to the high seat, Ser Marlon Manderly gave a snort of disdain. "It has been centuries since White Harbor has seen any wildlings, and the ironmen have never troubled this coast. Does Lord Stannis propose to defend us from snarks and dragons too?" (Davos III, ADwD)

This passage is so interesting. The wildlings hadn't come south of the Wall yet when this chapter happened. So it seems like wildlings will be seen in White Harbor.

The ironborn never came up the eastern coast of Westeros, but that may be changing with Euron as their king. Euron wants all of Westeros. This chapter takes place before the kingsmoot.

The snarks are still north of the Wall, but not for long.

And the dragons. Ser Marlon doesn't spend enough time at the Lazy Eel to listen to the stories of the sailors coming ashore. Ser Marlon doesn't know that there are in fact dragons in the world once again. Davos found out about them in his previous chapter.

1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Oh, I have a question btw for anybody who wants to answer it. Why is Jaehaerys I's granddaughter Rhaenys called Rhaenys Targaryen instead of Rhaenys Velaryon? It seems that since the marriage was consummated, they had two children (Laenor and Laena) and how Catelyn Tully, for example, became Catelyn Stark, Rhaenys should've be called Princess Rhaenys Velaryon.

Cersei became Cersei Baratheon when she married Robert, but she is never once called that. She is always Cersei Lannister. I think it's just a choice on our author's part. 

The Long Night wiki entry is a mess. The first two paragraphs under Westeros are speculation. I didn't look at the rest.

Rescue.

@Ran I was wondering if this is a question you can answer.

Is the eight-pointed star on the Dayne sigil canon or semi-canon?

2 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Almost, I think. When he wears the doublet, you notice the same blue in his eyes.  If he wore a different colour, you might not notice it. It's like the plum-coloured dress that Viserys gives to Dany. He says: "The color will bring out the violet in your eyes...." Her eye colour does not really change, but the purple shade is more noticeable.

That's what I thought, but I wanted to make sure my understanding was correct. Thanks for the reply. There's also a line in the Mystery Knight where Daemon wears a purple doublet to bring out the purple in his eyes. 

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

I think so too... Having said that Johns blue eyes are the same color as his second cousin sixth removed (is that right? The unworthy was Johns grandfather and Danys great great great great great grandfather, I think) so its a weird description.

You don't even have to go all that far back in the story to encounter two other characters with eyes that take on the color of the color they dye their hair in.

About this;

"There you are, Gormy," called the rider on the black, a young man lean and lithe, with a comely, clean-shaven face and fine features. Black hair fell shining to his collar. His doublet was made of black blue silk edged in gold satin. Across his chest an engrailed cross had been embroidered in gold thread, with a golden fiddle in the first and third quarters, a golden sword in the second and the fourth. His eyes caught the deep blue of his doublet and sparkled with amusement. 

About the highlighted bit, does it mean that his eyes are the same deep blue as the doublet?

54 minutes ago, corbon said:

If its not a mistake, its because when Ser Allister used it he used it as a (mocking) formal title.
Pyp used it for himself shortly after, echoing Ser Allister, and it was back to lower case, even with 'the' in front. I'd guess Pyp wasn't using it as a 'title' for himself, even mockingly, but mocking Ser Alister's use of it in effect. Hence the lower case.

Lancel was 'a', not 'the', so always lower case. 

Formal (even mocking) titles get upper case, descriptions and less 'formal' uses of titles get lower case.

Excellent point. Now that I've paid a little more attention, I see that all the nicknames that Ser Alliser gave the recruits are all capitalized. Lover, Stone Head, Lady Piggy, Aurochs . . .

I was wondering if anyone can explain the difference between these two. I am looking at the spelling difference.

"A dead man in the prow of a ship, a blue rose, a banquet of blood . . . what does any of it mean, Khaleesi? A mummer's dragon, you said. What is a mummer's dragon, pray?" (Daenerys V, ACoK 63)

Mummer's dragon is always spelled with a small m and a small d. But then we have this about Pyp.

"They will call you men of the Night's Watch now, but you are bigger fools than the Mummer's Monkey here if you believe that."

In this one case, it's mummer's monkey, capital M and capital M. The two other instances that a mummer's monkey is mentioned in relation to Pyp and Lancel, we are looking at a small m.

The difference between the two is lost on me. So I was wondering if someone knows if there is an actual difference. 

20 hours ago, Brandon Snow was right said:

Since Edmure allowed his smallfolk to take shelter in Riverrun, do you think the Brotherhood Without Banners consider him a man of the people?

I don't think it matters since Edmure's sister is now the leader of the BwB.

54 minutes ago, The_Watcher_On_The_Walls said:

If I ever disagree with Rhaenys_Targaryen, someone be sure to tap me on the shoulder. 
 

Small question: Who’s the fattest out of Yezzan zo Qaggaz, Lord Manderly and Illyrio Mopatis?

"Four," called a monstrously fat Yunkishman from the litter where he sprawled like a leviathan. Covered all in yellow silk fringed with gold, he looked as large four Illyrios. (Tyrion X, ADwD 47)

5 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

Why house Grafton fought for Aerys II during the rebellion?

They fought for Aerys at Gulltown at the very beginning of Robert's Rebellion. Lyn Corbray also fought there with House Grafton and was pardoned after the fall of Gulltown. I think the odds are good that they joined House Arryn like a good little vassal after Marq Grafton's death and fought on his side at the Trident.

1 hour ago, TheLastWolf said:

The Realm had not had a Lord Confessor since the reign of the second Daeron 

(Jaime calling Ilyn Payne to ride with him to Harrenhal and Riverrun) 

Why? 

And Rennifer Longwaters claims to have a drop or two of dragon blood in him. From who? Any consequences? 

Elaena Targaryen and Alyn Velaryon. I don't think it will have any sort of consequence. I think it's just part of the worldbuilding.

Questions about the BwB, it's probably members of no consequence. 

We don't know whose son Strong Sam Stone is. All we know is that he is the master-at-arms at Runestone.