Stormy4400

I'm sure that this has been discussed somewhere in the thread, but it just hit me recently while re-reading the Sansa snow castle chapter that roadside is a perfect backwards anagram for side road. A side road is another path to to possibly the same destination. I say possibly because it can sometimes be a meandering by that takes you to a different destination or slows you down. If read backwards, roadside implies Sansa as a possible side road to the weirwoods. It made me look at the other occurrences in the text and while the word in full only appears 7 times in the text, the passages are very interesting. You can enter the city of the gods via the side road, but payment must be made, and it usually, means your death or sacrifice. Using the side road is also treasonous. I am curious about the implication of this passage of side roads once leading to villages where marriages and newborns were celebrated...especially the newborn aspect. It suggests that children are never born in those villages anymore. Could this be a hint about George's neverborn from his infamous outline. This passage is very interesting. Thoughts?

YW! I too have noticed that Martin uses almost anagrams in the text and I feel sure that it's a deliberate choice on his part. I discovered another couple of interesting wordplays/anagrams over the last few years that you might find interesting. The first is Nissa being an alternate spelling for Nyssa. As you know, *I* and *Y* are often used interchangeably in the spelling of words and I believe that George is using it in this manner in the spelling of Nissa. Nyssa is a genus of deciduous trees that grow in swamps and bogs and along *blackwater* rivers. The trees are natural weirs. More popularly known as Black Tupelo trees, they gave name to Tupelo Mississippi where many of the trees can be found in area swamps. They are also plentiful along the Florida panhandle, Mexico and Central America. They are many varieties of the trees including Nyssa sylvatica, Nyssa aquatica, and Nyssa ogeche to name just a few. The interesting thing is that in addition to being natural weirs that grow in swamps and blackwater rivers, the different variety of trees are all honey makers. The ones that grow along the Florida panhandle actually produces one of the most expensive variety of honeys. When you consider the symbolic importances of weirs, blackwater rivers, hives, bees and honey as the food of the gods in the text, I feel confident that this particular tree influenced George in the naming of the character at the heart of one of the books great mysteries. In regard to the text, Nissa or Nyssa can be interpreted as the honey tree and I think that is association with honey may also explain George’s use of repetition in the name. I think that he was potentially inspired by the Abba song Honey Honey from the 70s. He loves to drop those types of cultural references into his stories. Another interesting discovery I made is that Sansa is a full anagram for nassa, which means weir in Spanish. When I made this discovery a few years ago, I was told that it was just happenstance because nassa was Spanish and George was probably not aware of the word. This didn’t make any sense to me as George is on the record as saying that he can’t write a character until he knows their name and that he does a lot of research to determine his character’s names. George has also lived for decades in a state where Spanish is basically the second language and as he uses anagrams in his story, I think that he likely knows that Sansa is an anagram for nassa and its association with weir.

I like the inferences you make here especially about morning star being a stand-in for the Dawn sword. I like the theory about Brienne but I'm especially intrigued by your comment about Sansa. Arya has her sword Needle but Sansa was always better at needlework than her little sister. Keeping in mind the double meaning, I wonder whether that could mean something...especially in regard to how she will kill Petyr, which I think will happen by her hands and not someone else. The popular fandom theory is that Darkstar will steal Dawn and bring it out of Dorne. He will then join Faegon's Kings guard and when Dany kills the latter, she will come into the possession of Dawn and then present it to Jon at some point in the future. I only agree with the first part of the theory. I think that Darkstar will indeed *steal* the famous sword but I don't think that he will go to Kings Landing. I think that he is another of Petyr's Catspaw and the thief will make his way to the Vale. It was on Petyr's order that he attempted to kill Myrcella. In fact, my theory is that Darkstar's arrival in Gulltown might have been the news Oswell rushed to bring to Petyr. I find your reference to Sansa being a potential symbolic morning star interesting because I have theorized that Dawn will make its way back into the hands of House Stark not via Dany as many have proposed but via Sansa. One passage that suggests such a possibility is this one from the chapter where Sansa builds her Winterfell snow castle. The wording of that line is so specific and hints not just at the fact that Dawn will be stolen but also that it will somehow make its way to Sansa's sphere. There is also a lot of sexual innuendo in the phrase but that's a different topic. Assuming that Dawn is the original House sword of the Starks from which its later great sword got its name, this dream of Sansa is also very interesting...especially as she has been known to misremember or misunderstand things in her dream. I don't think that it's really Illyn Payne in the dream nor do I think that it's her the Ice sword that she is familiar with from when it was owned by her father. Rather, I think that Dawn is the sword in her dreams and she is simply interpreting it as the Ice from her memory. I also think that she will kill Petyr with it. You mention Arya and her sword Needle. She is the one who wanted to learn to use a sword and her training has made her pretty proficient at is usage. However, least we forget, Sansa was always better at needlework. And no, I'm not saying that Sansa is going to become a master swords woman. That's not her role. I'm just talking about the symbolism that might come into play if Dawn, the symbolic morning star makes it into her hands as I proposed. It will then be through her that Jon gets his hands on the sword. She will be the maid that presents it to him. The wordplay on Septa Mordane's name never occurred to me but I love it. if she was a Dayne whether literally or symbolically, she would have been the one who taught Sansa needlework. Nice symbolism there. ETA to add a final thought. More than any other of the Starklings, Ice has played a role in Sansa's arc. From her first chapter when she reacted to Illyn Payne, it has been present in her arc. Her father would use Ice to kill Lady, with Sansa possibly being present in her direwolf at the time; Payne would later behead her father using Ice right in front of her; she would see him with the sword around the castle on multiple occasions; Ilyn and the sword invaded her dreams; and later, Jaime sent Brienne with one of the swords reforged from Ice to find Sansa. The sword has been a lodestone in Sansa's arc and so it makes sense that the original Ice would make its way back to her house via her.

This has probably been discovered by others and discussed somewhere in this very long thread but a wordplay I find to be interesting is Merling vs Merlin and how it plays into Petyr's arc and the Vale. When he steals Sansa away from Kings Landing, he travels to the Vale on a galley name the Merling King as in the sea creature. When he reaches the Vale, he marries Lysa, later kills her and usurp her rulership of the Vale. What's interesting is that the sigil of House Aryn is a blue falcon and merlin without the "g" is the name of a blue falcon. So the ship that Petyr sailed to the Vale was basically announcing his intention to become the Merlin King or Lord of the Vale. It also implies that Ursula Upcliff who claimed to have been married to the Merling King might have been talking about the King of the Vale. Another interesting wordplay I discovered recently, which also likely has been discussed is Oldstones being almost a full anagram for Lodestone. It's only off by one letter but if you consider that the archaic spelling of old is olde, is can be considered a full anagram. Jenny of Oldstones was certainly a magnet for Duncan Targaryen but what does it mean. Is it simply telling us that it's not just certain locations that are hinges of the world, and that they are certain characters who serve the same purpose? If so, what was it about Jenny and the castle on the hill that made the lodestones?

When he goes south, he will pass the Crossroads. I'm sure that there will be news about the tourney melee at the inn and all he has to do is take the eastern road and head to the Eyrie to participate. Jon having recently returned from the dead and with Ghost’s direwolf aspect now a part of him will be in a killing mood (JMO). In TWOIAF, they tell us that the northern men don’t like jousting and that the melee was more their sport. Hearing of one in the area…especially in the mood he probably will be in would be of interest to Jon. I don't know specifically how it will happen but I'm pretty confident that Jon will end up in the Eyrie. Also although D&D have changed a lot in the story the last couple of years to the detriment of the show, I think what they got right is the fact that Jon and Sansa will be the first of the Stark kids to reunite and that the Knights of the Vale. I also think that it will happen in the Eyrie because in my opinion, the Knights of the Vale and the Mountains of the Morn are very important to the story. And I still say the timing lines up. Think of Alayne's last chapter in AFFC when Myranda told her that Ned Stark's bastard son was now Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Sansa thinks about how it would be sweet to see Jon again and then as she's continues down the mountain, a strong wind hits them. She thinks of this wind as a "howling ghost wind as big as a mountain." I think that's the moment when Jon died over at the Wall. For us the reader, it didn't happen until ADWD but because we know from Martin that this book ran concurrently with the story in AFFC, we can extrapolate if the two books were combined into one as originally intended, Sansa Eyrie chapter and Jon death chapter would align. Also, the Alayne preview chapter would have to take place at least 2-3 weeks after her descent from the Eyrie as they would have to give the contestants time to arrive for the tourney. Plus, her and Myranda seem to have become comfortable in each other’s presence and that couldn’t have happened overnight. As such, there would have to be a slight passage of time from Alayne’s last chapter in AFFC. And if we assume that the “howling ghost wind” reference was a tip to Jon’s murder, then time has passed for him and his leaving the Wall and arriving at the Crossroads around the time of the tourney would match up. Every important event of the past that plays into the current story is happening again in some manner and so, it only makes sense that the Tourney of Harrenhal would repeat as well. In fact, GRRM maybe giving us two tourneys for the price of one as it could be argued that it’s the Tourney of Ashford Meadows playing out again as well. I wouldn’t be at all surprise if there is a puppet show about Florian and Jonquil and we finally get to heart that song that Sansa knows about them.

I think that Sandor will probably show up in the story again but not in Vale. I think that part of Sandor's role in the story is to represent what Jon will be like when he returns. GRRM even gave him a name that ties into Jon. Wolf Hound anyone! As the Hound told Sansa, he enjoys killing. Jon before he is killed does not. However, there is a scene in ADWD where he thinks to himself, "food even taste better in Ghost," or words to that affect. I think that when he returns with the wolf now literally a part of him, killing will taste better as well. Just like Sandor.

But per Martin, the events in AFFC and ADWD are concurrent. Even if Jon's body is put into the icy cells as Bran's vision seems to indicate, there won't be a long period of time between when he dies and when he returns for a couple of reason. First, the Night Watch would never keep his body for a long period of time as their practice is to burn bodies right away...generally the next morning. Second, if Jon is left in Ghost for too long a period of time, he will take on too much of the traits of the direwolf and Jon still has to be the controlling personality to lead the fight for the dawn. At the most, I would think that his body remains in the crypts about two days. This means that if he leaves the wall and heads south after he returns as I suspect will be the case, he will be passing the Eyrie right about the time of the Tourney.

Hi everyone, Well, this is my first post on the forums. Like most everyone, I come to Westeros.org when I need to do some research on a subject or character from ASOIAF. I've been lurking on the forums but as it had been years since I first read the books, beginning with the publication of the first 20 years ago, I never felt comfortable posting. However, during the last year, I've been re-reading the books and have felt comfortable enough to start posting my comments online. As I mentioned, I've been lurking and reading the various threads and decided to make my first post in this one because as I was reading it, I thought that I would run across a particular analysis and as I didn't, I started to wonder if I was crazy...and maybe I am and it led to me deciding to de-lurk and ask a question. There were also a lot of pages to the thread and as I skip a few, it's possible that I missed what I expected to see, and in that case, apologies. The question I wanted to ask is does anyone else see the probability that GRRM is using the search for SR's Winged Knight Kingsguard as a reenactment of The Tourney of Harrenhal? Everything seems to be in place for it. You have Lyanna, the lady wolf in the form of Sansa; her betroth, Robert in the form of Harry (even down to him replicating Robert in the fathering of bastard children); the event is taking place in the Vale of Arryn where Robert was fostered and where he had his first bastard, Mya; you have a short in stature hedge knight in Ser Shadrich (although he is of a different moral character than Howland); And, I suspect that eventually, Brienne will end up in the Vale and will be representative of the "non" laughing knight. The only person missing is the Rheghar stand-in, which I believe will be Jon as it was hinted at in Sansa's last chapter in AFFC as she descended from the Eyrie and the wind was described as howling fiercely. "It sounds like a wolf, thought Sansa. A ghost wolf as big as mountains." To me, this hints at one of two things. The first option is that Ghost would be in the Eyrie and where there's Ghost, Jon is not far behind. Or the second possibility is that Ghost dies when Jon is brought back and it's symbolic Jon the ghost that Sansa is sensing in the mountains. Either way, I think that it's a safe bet that when Jon leaves the Wall as he no doubt will, he will head south passing the Eyrie and will probably participate in the Tourney after he recognizes Sansa. At some point both Jon and Sansa will have to go back to Winterfell but as the story left off, Stannis will be the one to take back Winterfell or at least attempt to do so. Since Winterfell is not currently an option for him, it makes sense that he would head south and end up at the Eyrie...especially as it's obvious that the Knights of the Vale and House Arryn have a major role to play in the endgame. So what does everyone think? Do you think this scenario as I outline could play out.