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Hammers1895

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  1. Hammers1895

    Hidden Houses of Westeros

    I misunderstood. Thought previous comments were confusing Parren and Perryn, not the location of Parren.
  2. Hammers1895

    Hidden Houses of Westeros

    But yea overall, I would say 90% of the sigils we encounter that we do not, as readers, recognize are probably small landed knights/freeriders who have made their own sigils. I am more intrigued by houses whose home region we do not know, or houses we've been introduced to in the past that do not factor into ASOIAF series and we do not know their current status. Those being: Belgrave, Sweet, Goode, Leek, Blackberry, Cupps, Farrow, Greenhill, Penny, Potter, Rankenfell, Ruskyn, Sawyer, Suggs, Waeatherwax, Mandrake, Strickland, etc., etc.
  3. Hammers1895

    Hidden Houses of Westeros

    Also not quite accurate I think? There is a Parren and a Perryn, both extinct, one from Riverlands, one from Westerlands.
  4. Hammers1895

    Targaryen fleet destroyed...

    One way to gauge the ascendancy and nadirs of powerful houses is their frequency of marrying into the royal family. Between the Targaryen's making Dragonstone their home and the Dance of Dragons, House Velaryon was probably the most frequently paired house to House Targaryen. Blood ties, common Valyrian ancestry, geography and the sheer wealth and power of the Velaryon's were the cause for this. It seems obviously they lost some "stature"points along the way as their wealth and influence diminished and they were no longer favored by the Targaryen's. From everything I have read, the "Royal Navy" had always been the Velaryons, or a combination of them and the other Narrow Sea houses, but never a directly administered fleet controlled only by the Iron Throne and not belong in whole or in part to any individual house (or borrowed from the ironborn depending on the relationship with them at the time). Stannis' building of the "new" royal fleet to assault Dragonstone was the first true "Iron Throne" fleet. This was the same fleet used to put down the first Greyjoy Rebellion. And when Stannis took his ships home after Robert's death in GoT, the Lannister/Baratheon royal family again had no fleet except those few ships Stannis did not take with him, which were presumably the ones he ended up fighting against on the Blackwater. Post-Blackwater, Cersei began building a new royal fleet, which Aurane Waters then absconded with. Iron Throne really has no luck with warships haha.
  5. Hammers1895

    The Fall of the Great Houses

    Interesting premise, but I think too many random/irrelevant ideas being brought into this thread as possible justifications for a future we cannot possibly predict. DON'T BRING THOUGHTS FROM THE SHOW INTO THINGS. Take the facts are we have them (or appear to have them) from what we've read so far. In that vein: 1. The Starks seem to be in trouble, but maybe not so bad. I don't know Rickon's chances of survival (if he is alive) or whether or not GRRM has ever intended to make him a prominent character at a later point, but he is one chance of their survival. Another would be the offspring of Arya and/or Sansa, who would have to take the Stark name to make it official. Jon as a bastard (if he is alive) would be unsuitable unless it's true he is the son of Lyanna (and how do you prove that?). Bran cannot father children. Benjen seems a long shot. I think the Starks will survive somehow, and they still command the sentimental loyalty of most Northern houses as opposed to the houses current predicament of having to live in fear/subservience to the Boltons or support southron Stannis. 2. The Baratheons and Tullys are toast. Brynden is too old. Lysa and Cat are dead. Edmure will remain a prisoner of the Lannisters, who will never allow his offspring to rule (if the child isn't aborted first anyways). The Spicer/Westerling complicity in the Red Wedding has been so downplayed compared with the more abrupt violence of the Frey/Bolton/Karstark actions, but they screwed Robb Stark pretty thoroughly as well. I think the Riverlands are going to end up being up for grabs and whomever sits the Iron Throne at the end of things will have to name a new house as Lords Paramount of the Trident. The true Baratheons are hanging on by a thread, we all know that. Robert dead, his "children" not his own, his ACTUAL children all bastards, some dead, one in exile, etc. etc. Renly is dead. Stannis is in a tough spot and has no sons. 3. The Arryns will continue, but most likely under Harry Hardyng (Arryn), not Robin. Even if he survives the chaos surrounding him (unlikely, as Baelish seems to be lining things up to eliminate him), he is not a respected future ruler of the Vale. He has no allies other than Vale lords who just don't want to be ruled by Baelish and will follow the Arryn name. If Harry HAD the Arryn name, they would follow him. 4. The Crownlands belong to the Iron Throne, so that will be settled by whomever prevails in that struggle. 5. The Tyrells and Lannisters seem to have plenty of potential successors. So unless a Targaryen ruler emerges and replaces them as punishment, I think they both make it. It would not be the first time in the history of any of these Great Houses that the line of succession had to follow a bit of a diagonal, rather than a nice straight line. 6. The Greyjoys I believe will be replaced internally, as the affairs of the plot line pick them off one-by-one. I could see the Harlaws, Botley's, Drumms, etc. be named as the new ruling house by the Iron Throne (unless they are granted their independence). Very apt considering that's exactly how the Greyjoys came to replace House Hoare anyways. 7. And the Martells seem well positioned to at least survive as rulers of Dorne, even if they don't get their way with the outcome of the battle for the Iron Throne. I think whomever wins that will want peace with Dorne, not continue to fight the Dornish when there is so little to gain. Attacking Dorne is like attacking Russia in the winter, only it's 110 degrees instead of -10. So overall IMO, Starks/Lannisters/Tyrells/Martells/Arryns survive (in one form or another)....Greyjoys/Tullys/Baratheons do not.
  6. Hammers1895

    Which minor houses do you want to see more of?

    Skagosi houses, Northern mountain clans, Vale mountain tribes. I think the Shield Island and Three Sisters houses are interesting. In addition, the marcher lords sworn to Storm's End seem like an interesting bunch (Swann, Errol, Selmy, Dondarrion, Caron (Foote)). Also, I would love to know more about the smaller Northern houses. Especially those from the Telltale game series (Forrester, Whitehill, Branfield, Glenmore). Also Waterman, Wells, Slate, Holt, etc.
  7. Given that the former Seven Kingdoms were really always 8 (II not counted usually, for whatever reason, amongst the Seven (North, Vale, Riverlands, Westerlands, Stormlands, Reach, Dorne), and the Crownlands were created administratively, there are nine constituent regions of Westeros south of the Wall. GRMM makes it clear at the outset (and canonically) who the Great Houses are. The Starks in the North, the Arryns in the Vale, the Tullys in the Riverlands, the Greyjoys on the Iron Islands, the Tyrells in the Reach, Lannisters in the Westerlands, Baratheons in the Stormlands, and the Martells in Dorne with Baratheon of KL's as the Royal house/simultaneously being the default Great House of the Crownlands. And GRRM gives ample evidence, in addition to outright writing it in places, that other houses outside the "Great" houses are very powerful, to varying degrees. Some of these may be considered "overmighty" bannermen. I love lists and rankings and things of that sort, so I thought it would be fun and a conversation-starter to list the houses of each region, picking the 5 most powerful per region. I would stipulate too a slight difference between most powerful vs. most influential/important. Here's my take on matters: The North: 1. Stark- the Great House, ancient family with deep loyalty from bannermen of region, very strong castle 2. Manderly- controls White Harbor and thus most of the North's commerce, has a small fleet of warships, heavy mounted Calvary. Most knights of any Northern house, and the wealthiest. 3. Bolton- Once Red Kings, ancient house, very strong castle, control large land area, have large amount of soldiers (judging from Roose's actions in the War of 5 Kings and retaking the North post-Red Wedding) 4. Umber- Another ancient line, seems like good number of soldiers available considering sparse population to draw from, known genetically for physical strength and size . 5. Karstark- Good troop numbers and large land area under their control. Power in the North definitely favors those houses on the Eastern side of the continent. The Riverlands: 1. Frey- control busiest crossing route on the Green Fork, wealthy and numerous, strong castle. Can field 4,000 men easily, 1,000 of which are knights. Have vassals of their own (Haigh, Erenford, Charlton) 2. Tully- the Great House, control all water traffic at junction of Tumblestone and Red Fork. Good relations seemingly with most houses in region. 3. Mallister- Seagard is a strong castle, and a town grows around it. Formidable warriors historically, usually first defense of Riverlands from ironborn. 4. Blackwood- Putting these two houses in together and by default, as I believe from inference they are stronger than Vance/Whent/Darry/Mooton/Piper/Ryger/Roote, etc. 5. Bracken- see above The Vale of Arryn: 1. Royce- another surprise here, not a Great House at number one. More by default as Arryn's have very weak leadership right now, house about to pass to some amalgamation of Baelish/Sansa/Harry Hardyng 2. Arryn- the name still carries weight, nearly impregnable fortress in the Eyrie. 3. Grafton- not much info on them militarily, but they control Gulltown and therefore have money. 4. Hunter- these two go in by default, not much is known about their military strength but flip a coin between Hunter/Redfort/Belmore/Melcolm/Templteton/Waynwood/Coldwater/Waxley/Lynderly, etc. 5. Redfort- see above The Westerlands: 1. Lannister- Rich, access to gold, Casterly Rock nearly impregenable. Jaime great warrior, Tywin feared leader, Tyrion clever as all get out and Cersei master schemer/evil bitch capable of anything. 2. Lannister- Yup, these guys again. Control, nominally, city and port of Lannisport, can use population to raise troops, theoretically would have the backing of Casterly Rock and vise versa due to blood ties 3. Marbrand- Similar to previous sections, these two houses seem to be close to House Lannister and provide a lot of military support 4. Crakehall- see above 5. Lefford- The castle controls the main entrance to the Westerlands from the east The Stormlands: 1. Baratheon of Storm's End- Sort of goes without saying...very powerful house, very strong castle. 2. Swann- Marcher Lords seem the strongest of Baratheon bannermen, and Swann's are an ancient house with a strong castle 3. Dondarrion- Same criteria as above (Caron would make the list aside from them no longer existing as a House, and we can't get confirmation one way or another whether the Selmy's are knights or nobles) 4. Penrose- Putting them here simply because they haven't been overrun by the Golden Company (unlike the Wylde's, Morrigen's, Mertyn's, Estermont's) 5. Staedmon- ditto The Iron Islands: 1. Greyjoy- Have powerful navy at their disposal, and have essentially been the Kings on the II, as they remain aloof from rest of Westerosi society for the most part 2. Harlaw- Have their own islands/vassals, multiple branches and castles/keeps 3. Goodbrother- Have multiple branches and castles/keeps 4. Botley- Prominent family 5. Drumm- ditto The Crownlands: 1. Baratheon/Lannister- Royal family, have the loyalty of Crownlands Houses minus Narrow Sea lords, plus Gold Cloaks and position in Westeros' largest city 2. Baratheon of Dragonstone- Strong island fortress, commands loyalty of Narrow Sea houses (Sunglass, Bar Emmon, Velaryon, Celtigar), seemingly over their loyalty to Iron Throne; naval power 3. Massey- Seem like one of the few legit strong Crownsland houses 4. Staunton- ditto 5. Brune- preeminent house of Crackclaw Point, can fairly safely assume has vassal houses (Cave, Crabb, Hardy, Pyne), multiple branches (Dyre Den and Brownhollow) The Reach: 1. Hightower- Rulers of Oldtown, ancient and large family 2. Tyrell- Great House, rule large area and population 3. Redwyne- Wealthy and well-protected by island location, strongest private navy in Westeros 4. Tarly- Strong military leadership 5. Toss up between Rowan/Oakheart/Florent/Fossoway's/Costayne/Cuy/Crane/etc. Dorne: 1. Martell- Great House, two castles (Sunspear, Water Gardens), very loyal bannermen 2. Yronwood- Powerful, ancient, guard the Boneway 3. Fowler- Guards Prince's Pass 4. Wyl- Dornish Marcher Lords 5. Blackmont- Dornish Marcher Lords What would your list/reasons be?
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