Varysblackfyre321

Notice how quickly we moved from “we just care about the children!” to just blanket attempts at criminalization of all things queer.

That’s unfair having read your posts you may be further to the right or I guess more moderate to me and other posters here on some areas(not to say that’s an unreasonable thing in all cases) but that’s a far cry from being republican(who I acknowledge can still be someone decent and worked with as an individual.). It’s a important to keep things into perspective.

You’re characterization of my political placement isn’t unwarranted and a good reminder to keep things in perspective. Second I do think my labeling over what skimmed originally wasn’t fair and I apologize for that.

I’ve recently been watching the west wing thing a podcast going over the west wing(a political soap opera inspired by the Clinton White House) hosted by two anarchists. During an episode they go over one where a liberal White House aid has to defend the president gentle treatment of a cop who killed an old black homeless man to a progressive democratic congressman. The Congressmen argued the president was disrespecting the groups that got the president into power. The aid stated bluntly would never leave the democrats. The entitlement was nauseating to listen to.

I think you’re follow up solidified my initial understanding and rejection of your conclusion in this specific instance. I wondered if maybe your grievance(here at least) was more with an overzealous or counterproductive tactic/strategy towards a specific goal rather than lack of respect towards the goal itself but it appears more grievance with the goals themselves as being untenable to try and pursue. Pursing Optimization is significantly different maximization. It can mean accepting a degree of something as not only inevitable—but preferable. For example there’s an optimal weight a male miner of relatively decent health could carry without getting overwhelmed. I believe it’s around 20 pounds, anything more or less wouldn’t be optimal. I don’t think there’s an optimal level of acceptance to queer people and gender non-conforming folk that we need to stick to. One of my fantasy book series had a plot where angels came to a world and summarily looked at pronouncements of repentance and the genuineness of their mind at the time. This lead to a people taking extrajudicial matters in their own hands and killing and torturing and summarily being killed by the angels when they showed no repentance. I understand there’s nuance towards how we deal with prisoners. Yeah I know this gets trotted out to inspire empathy towards the right—empathy as in understanding not agreeing. It does in me. Hence annoyance towards much of the right and calls to casual dismiss them when they act like they’re not operating on a base level of disgust and have grander more sophisticated reasons for their bigotry. An example that springs to mind is the current outrage over Ted Cruz saying Uganda murdering gay people for being gay is bad with people pretending to worry about us imperialism and pedophilia as reason for their genocide apologia. It’d be really bad to greet these complaints seriously instead of virulent mockery. Too often liberals at the slightest show of anger by the culture right break down and treat their sycophancy as pragmatic politics. Yeah dude this is like the third time I asked now, but what exactly is the point of the coalition you’re trying to advocate for for? If it’s not maximizing harm-reduction I see little point with groups on the left with different specific goals and putting aside specific idealogical gripes to work together. I understand the benefit towards giving challenges to people where they can fail and grow I think you’d agree there’s no optimal level of bullying a boy should get for expressing a crush with another boy in the name of building his character. Like you’d clearly see there’s no optimal homophobia right? Or Optimal slut-shaming or optimal racism? Also if a degree of suffering should be seen as necessary would we do a disservice for not adequately reproving someone for an expressed bigoted sentiment when they’re younger as to not get so easily panicked when called out for it when they’re older? Ehh, I think it’s a bit more that now there’s a bit more expectation for people to think of their feelings, their possible good will intent in a situation. Like a white man in the 1940s probably would think nothing of it if he referred to a black man of older age as boy while thanking him or complimenting his vocabulary and cleanliness. Or they want to be able to point to this and say they screened people out in case you’re found to be a bigot. Like that’s kinda the main reason most businesses do these sorts of things. Eh depending on the initivies that can be fine or really bad I hope this response is seen as reasonable given Neither of us are free speech absolutists or think everyone needs to be given attention/a platform to be destroyed with facts and logic. I’d say more searing a imprint on what is acceptable and what isn’t unacceptable on someone’s brain in ways people have traditionally have done in formulating a culture since forever. I think it’s important for us to practice some humbleness and actually take some lessons on how to encode a society’s moral from past generations. I’m fine with both though neither are really distinct. Oooh of course not. A lot of villains in media are queer coded if not queer. Oh because they don’t have the whip of the state to keep populace in a moral line and their membership actively discourages the type of thinking that would land someone in a namby-pamby art school or college or any educational path that’s associated with towards making them gay atheist communists which tends to be the artsy ones. Jesus Christ remember we were talking about drag queens reading children’s books to little kids to help them get inoculated to certain modes of gender nonconformity not recreating Shakespeare. Eh at times sure A YouTuber Verilybitchy made a interesting take down of media with pro-trans messages being boring due to its attempts to be inoffensive. Good people or people with good politics. 300 is fascist propaganda—still thoroughly enjoy it. Yeah this sounds like catastrophizing fringe internet discourse. As a centrist on the issue I just thought hearing Pratt would play Mario is if they were going to do an accent go all the way or don’t. I’m not going to watch the movie so idc. I do wonder about that— Disney villains tend to be very popular in the lgbt community because they tended to be queer-coded(Ursula is literally based off a drag queen( and the the funnest part of the movie. Please can we not mystify and demonfy normal ways of inoculating people into certain beliefs that have been done since humans had the capacity to weave a story when progressives do it. I understand you’re not referring to all the left. Tactfully disagree. Sure. You still haven’t pointed to any specific policy being seriously proposed or implemented by those on the left.

Goddamnit I’ve let my own biases get me to readily accept misinformation and spread it around. Thanks for the correction.

I disagree but I think I can see why someone could arrive ar the opposite conclusion, I think that’s fair.

I too don’t want the worst people in society to have the only legitimate means of state violence

Or thoroughly assimilated because they’d want friends and their potential friend group will be full of scum. 40% of cops freely admit to beating their spouse. I imagine at least another 10-15% are ashamed enough or at least smart enough to keep quiet.’

Yeah I’ll dig into it deeper but this reads like a far right rant.

Yeah I don’t know who the fuck I was trying to appeal to what this neutral crap generally yeah. If Neil Patrick killed his family in a drunk rage that’d be taken as verifiable proof that gay people for the sake of the children shouldn’t be raising them if a conservative Christian thought leader did the same, it’d be discounted as a one off.

Ellen Denegrass helped normalize gay people too. Terrible boss as I hear. Kevin Spacey is a sexual predator Yeah that’s the problem with just waiting for celebrities to come out as something, or in support of something to help move the dial for a movement. The celebrity can turn out to be a terrible person and the terribleness rightly or wrongly will be attached to a faucet of their identity or activism and for some people that’ll be the main frame of reference they think of when thinking of gay rights. Or people can just see it as poor affliction on a talented individual like alcoholism Generally speaking maybe, In this specific case I have to say based on what I’m getting from your words(and I may be misunderstanding so please correct me) I’m inclined to say I don’t think so. There can never actually be too much acceptance of Gender-nonconformity, trans people and gay people which I think was the original point of contention with the or at least a goal of Drag queen story hour and I refuse to pretend the left is acting irresponsibly by virtue of trying to get young people especially children to realize this fact or help cement this in their minds. I acknowledge you’ve given the qualifier in your op on how the right is worse than the left and how offering internal criticism is necessary etc etc. I do feel you may catastrophizing cringe ‘Twitter’ lefties as the main faucet of the left when you frame the reaction to the right’s moral panics as reckless(would that be better word for what you trying to describe) . Least broadly. Like instead of hyperfixating internet horror stories of even big name progressive YouTubers getting canceled for innocuous takes maybe let’s look what policies are being implemented and seriously suggested and pushed in halls of power by the “left” And it’s usually the most milktoast shit that no one on the left who doesn’t have their reactionary baggage would get angry about.

Yes and you immediately rushed to to talk about how it’s not wrong for parents to not want their kids to become gay or more accepting of gay people then moved than morphed the conversation about talking about trans people. Incredibly infantilizing. And more importantly from my viewing tans politicians generally untrue. My point wasn’t to attack him as a person or his contribution to the acceptance of the acceptance of the lgbt community. No movement can sustain itself or progress towards its goals if they waited around for everyone with a significant degree of celebrity to come out as a member of that group. You have to boots on the ground trying to create an environment amenable to your groups goals. Also Its not divine mandate that any population doesn’t get worse on a social issue and republicans have made clear if in control they’ll take their culture hysteria nationally, they rely on this lie of respecting states rights to get people complacent.

Okay, do you think trans political actors are being manipulated or pressured into doing things to satisfy the whims of liberal white people in their 30s and 40s?