Varysblackfyre321

Okay how off do you think they are and what measures would validate or repudiate it? Do you think they’re off by 1000? 2000?

There is no large voting block democrats rely on that’s particularly infatuated with Israel.

Of course not, that’s why I will vote for Biden when it comes to it in the general even if I think it’s a lost cause, I have to try something to help this country advert fascism I just hate Dems and him seem deadset on committing electoral suicide for Israel.

Let the UN condemn them, sanction them, refuse weapons sells to them, withhold aid from them. There’s a number of things Dems and Biden can threaten and should do. It’s not just them I’m worried it’s all the young particulars young people of color who are turned off by Biden’s fecklessness and his appeals to Israel. There isn’t a significantly sized hard lined base on the topic Democrats need worry about losing votes over by doing the right thing.

They won’t. My guess is that they’re hoping the devastation they’d wreck on the Gazan populace would be so great that a significant counter insurgency would be impossible because of the lack of warm bodies.

Yeah but maybe it’d even the odds just a little for old genocide Joe. Goddamn I hate him now too. He should have taken the initial blowback that would have come by just strongly condemning Israel when it cut off water to Gaza and stating bluntly they(Israel) had an actual red-line. In addition to being morally right outcry would be mostly from people who’d never vote for him anyway.

Goddamn that sounds depressing. We’d let Israel do more horrific stuff in the best case or join in on the worst case. Wouldn’t those people be the easiest to frame as merely loyal lap dogs for the occupiers and thus easiest to rally against?

Biden really has to hope trump gets convicted before the election otherwise right now he’s toast.

Better fit would Netanyahu’s government and Hamas. Or Israel and Gaza putting Hamas there makes the poll just the “do you condemn Hamas” meme Agreed. We agree that the majority of those who went with Hamas in the badly worded poll probably didn’t do so because they hate Jews and love terrorists. and anti-semitism has grown.

They’re natural contrast would be in Netanyahu’s far right government not Israel as a whole in a general. If you switched for Palestine you’d just have to ask if you side with Palestine or Israel. A faulty question but better. Also should note there are Israeli-Palestinian, not every Israeli is a Jew.

I think it’s because primarily they don’t like dead babies and kids which israel is seeming to produce in Gaza a lot. If a young whipper snapper had to take a test right after the invasion of Afghanistan or Iraq and asked to side with Saddam Hussain and/or the Taliban or America, that youngster going with the former options doesn’t automatically indicate they’re a jihadist ready to blow up an airport or I guess viciously attack a Kurd, or go try and enslave a woman. edit grammar I suck at it,

What is the nonesense? My interlocutor seems adamant to frame condemnation of war crimes that would see hundreds if not thousands of children dead as reprehensible if it theoretically increased the likelihood of an Israeli soldier seeing combat and being killed.

Yeahhh at a certain point you can’t referent October 7 to disqualify responsibility for Israel does in Gaza anymore. 9-11 was also bad. America’s reaction for a large part evil and/or stupid and worth condemning and going “what about Al qaeda” isn’t a power move. If cops blew up a bank to get bank robber whose killed people and taken hostages the cops still did something really bad and are at fault for the deaths caused by their explosion.

It’s not that unusual unfortunately . Washington post did a poll after Charlotsville and ten percent of the population identified as alt right. Suprsingly enough America is less anti semitic than a lot of Europe.

I’d be fine with him just saying don’t bomb refugee and ambulances camps just to get one Hamas and I think many others would as well. I like less dead babies and kiddies, that’s not an exotic position I know. Is a a wanna be dictator whose appointed a self admitted fascist to over see the west bank. Would it be productive to now label you as you pro-autocrat and self-described fascist? Yep sad unfortunately it’s better for the world and us security for Israel to not commit war crimes that kills thousands of children and will cause a mass refugee crisis that may mean more Israeli soldiers may occasionally get taken off by a homemade Hamas rocket when trying to do a special op or something. We can both agree at the very least Biden’s priority isn’t just letting Israel run rampant until it feels safe at the cost of everyone else right?

By siding with Hamas do you mean just not liking it when Israel bombs a refugee camp or ambulance or actually going “whoah dude Hamas is awesome!”

Who is saying send US soldiers to die in Gaza or Palestine? edit. Oh wait you meant Israeli soldiers to which every single one is presumably worth a thousand Palestinian children at least. I side against Israel’s disproportionate response(which include war crimes) and not Hamas. Is that position possible in your world? Do you side with Israel? If so you’re indirectly siding with Netanyahu who bombing ambulances and refugee camps. You see how reductive and unhelpful that is.

I should address these quotes. First; fair enough. Appeal isn’t the appropriate word—I feel it’s more dems (in part) have tried not to enrage them with this particular topic fearing tremendous backlash overestimating the strength of Israel’s popularity within the country and how representative their views actually are to even more moderate Christians. No, I would never wish anyone to move to Australia. Kidding Seriously I was a bit confused on the post I was responding to like you seem to agree that the building of more settlements were settlements was bad seemed to allude to something that would make it a bit morally complex topic. What do you disagree with me on? Please tell me so maybe I can better explain myself or recognize a fault in my logic.

Tougher being saying don’t bomb refugee camps and ambulance Or at least he recognizes the need to use frame people being mad hamas fighters dying instead of babies and kids getting bombed at a refugee camp or while along side an ambulance. @Altherion would it be productive to label people who think Biden should be more supportive or as supportive as he’s been to Israel as pro-child murder, pro-self described fascists?

True it’s part of why many Israeli leftists who are pro-Palestinian liberation weee so adamant against the overhaul—the courts are a thin lease on the government who’d cleanse the region if they could but a lease nonetheless. Unfortunate there wasn’t more international support for them—though it is hard to get progressive circles to get invested in the democratic welfare in general

Can’t Israeli Jews just not take the land? Is that not a possibility?

Yeah that’s some good old manifest destiny.

Gun fact Nelson Mandela also called it apartheid

Ah hamas the great world ending evil that’s once removed from Gaza will be referenced endlessly for fascistic policies are necessary to keep them out. The rage built over them will be in turn looked at as reason to keep the policies up as of course if they’re just let up a Hamas like group may rise. I do agree it wouldn’t be bad for hams to go. I just hope what’s replacing them is actually significantly better.

Probably self-admitted fascists like the guy they have governing the West Bank. I really don’t see Israel doing an American style reconstruction and reconciliation plan with Gaza.