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  1. @aryagonnakill#2 Thanks for your comment. I disagree. If Wex was in the tree, your saying he went through the acres of forest and saw men slaughtered and then went to the heart tree to hide? While there was a sweep happening? BC Manderly said Wex was in the one tree for a time, when did he have time to survey the wood? During the sweep? Certainly not after because he needed to chase Osha and as the text says he stayed there until he heard the voices so not before either. Also, the edge of the wood is burnt, suggesting a fire was started but not maintained...they tried to burn it or allow it to burn. The broken tower was unburnt as well---no fire reached there at all. If you look at a map of WF and trace Bran's circuit through the place it looks like they stopped sacking just short of the Godswood and just let the fires do their thing. I don't understand your point about them not leaving Luwin at the pool. That's where they left him, which would have been right under Wex if he was in the tree. Additionally, if I were Wex I would go back to the last place I saw IronBorn which would be the stoney shore as it is about 1.5 days ride from Winterfell and he knows where that is. He's not from the North, we have no proof he has ever been to Moat Cailin why would you head there? It's much farther away and you have no idea where it is, or how those men are doing. There are men using WF as a waystation between Asha and the Cleftjaw - that's in the text. I would go to the people I know that are closest to me and are presumably doing well which is what I surmise Wex did. Walking to Moat Caitlin alone at 12 seems less feasible.
  2. Hey guys, last post before class starts. Wanted to get this one out before I go copy and paste all that text needed for the Wex thread. (That'll be this afternoon :-)) Anywho. A while ago it came to my attention that Jaime spilt the beans. I mean all the damn beans lol. Wondering if anyone else caught this. As my new friends here have let me know I should tell you this is indeed a part of a much larger theory that I have dubbed the GNA (Grand Northern Ambitions) but I just thought this tidbit was so hilarious. We talk about Jamie being the "golden dummy" yea he most certainly is lol. Remember when Jamie was going around the Riverlands picking up hostages from houses that were loyal to the Tullys and the Starks? He picked up Hoster Blackwood. They talk about a few things but most notably Hoster asks Jamie about killing all of the Starks and during this exchange - he told Hoster that the real Arya was not in the North being married to Ramsey. Here's that exchange: Not all," said Jaime. "Lord Eddard's daughters live. One has just been wed. The other …" Brienne, where are you? Have you found her? "… if the gods are good, she'll forget she was a Stark. She'll wed some burly blacksmith or fat-faced innkeep, fill his house with children, and never need to fear that some knight might come along to smash their heads against a wall." Jamie 1 ADWD We’ll discuss Jaime’s quote further in the Riverlands portion of the GNA but for now, let's look at the timeline of that quote for this theory’s purposes 1/20/300 Jeyne leave KL - Jaime speaks to her ASOS 72 4/9/300 Jeyne arrives at Barrowton 4/12/300 A leal lords of the North Summoned to Barrowton ADWD 28 5/23/300 Jamie spills the beans to Hos Blackwood (Namesake of Hoster Tully second in line to his house) lol which is friggin hilarious when you think about it. 6/2/300 Manderly makes it to Barrowton 6/14/300 Jeyne Marries Ramsey 8/6/300 Theon and Jeyne Escape As you can see there is ample enough time for Jamie’s golden slip up to make it North to the Northern Resistance Army, and seeing how Jamie 1 ADWD was the last time we see Jamie Lannister from his point of view before he rides off with Brienne - I think its fair to say that the BHWOB has Jamie and the truth about Arya Stark. What do you guys think? The full GNA is ridiculously long so I figured taking smaller theories from it and talking about it here would be more fun than trying to get people to read/watch the entire thing.
  3. ladyD

    Mance Rayder violated guest rights!

    Ooohh Juicy! Nope that was Mel and most likely Stannis - I think he knows. Also, with Mance working with the Manderlys (he came as their singer even though WH is the largest city in the North and would have singers if any place did) And even if this were true - it doesn't violate guest right. Manderly bought all the food ever apparently so they didn't eat anything that belonged to the Boltons. To whom? Pretty sure Manderly bought all the food. And if Mance is working with Manderly - well Manderly knows Rickon is alive and Rickon would be the true Lord of Winterfell. The Boltons are occupiers that didn't even supply the grub! And Bolton men murdered WH men in the dining hall. I really think because of the food thing they don't have guest right. Manderly is deliciously sneaky that way. Nope. Mel isn't there and neither is Jon. Can't violate guest rights if you aren't a guest. And then there's that pesky bread and salt thing. I'm really happy I stopped lurking. Chatting with you all is fun! This was an interesting thought too even though I do not agree.
  4. ladyD

    What would you do in (F)Aegons shoes?

    LOL! According to Preston Jacobs it worked just fine. And Faegon may have more Targ blood than Quentyn. They liked Brown Ben well enough right?
  5. ladyD

    What would you do in (F)Aegons shoes?

    They like Brown Ben Plumm well enough and his Targ blood is WAAAAAYYYY down the line. I just can't see Westeros being like - yea silver hair sounds legit lol. Def our lost King.
  6. Because he is a significant member of the household just like Cassel. It's one more thing Wex would be able to say the Ironborn did not do. There was no sweep. If there was there would have been bodies in the godswood and it would have been burnt as Wex described. Manderly and Glover communicate to Davos that Ramsey's men killed whomever the found there - but from the eyewitness account we have from Bran and Co. there are NO OTHER BODIES than the one they leave - Luwin. If Wex was there he would have known there was no sweep. He would not have assumed Luwin got caught in one. Luwin dragging himself there is obvious - he got stabbed by the front gate - totally true. Has nothing to do with Wex saying there was a sweep when there was not one. There were only 5 technically talking, 6 pairs of tracks, but 7 people present. I didn't think the reason for the lie was important as the question was solely about the inconsistencies. The textual evidence is just a lot that's why I made the video but I will start a new thread after class probably and copy and paste what I can. If anyone knows of a faster way than a searchoficeandfire please let me know. My kindle app won't let me copy and paste and it's like pages of text y'all. Thanks for commenting.
  7. I see. Geez. It's just SOOOOO much text and it's hell copying from Search of Ice and Fire (I cant copy from the Kindle), which is why I made the video so I could just read it to everyone. Urgh. I'll start another thread today. In the meantime if you all want to listen to the video - its extra long because of all of the quotes and maps and that's here: Again thanks for commenting pros.
  8. Rickon was in such a state that Shaggy begins to growl from Rickon's sadness about Luwin dying. The kid and the wolf are unstable. The animal is psychically linked to a scared child and you are right they do range widely - why would he not have smelled Wex? Why wouldn;t he be as defensive of Rickon as he was in the crypts? How would they not consider him a threat? He was hunting them with Theon and for all they know Theon is a part of the decimation of Winterfell. Thanks for commenting.
  9. Here's the video link: And again thanks for commenting. But be warned the video is long because Wex lying is a part of a much larger theory - if you just want the Wex bits you will have to skip around. :-)
  10. 1. As Makk helped me out with, technically only 5 people were speaking - but there were 7 present and 6 pairs of tracks. If he were there he would know that. He doesn't because he was not there. Trauma is one thing but how do you explain the made up godswood sweep? Where Ramsey's men killed who they found there and burnt the godswood? When Bran and Co. walk through Winterfell the godswood is unburnt and there are NO BODIES in the godswood. Until Luwin dies by Osha's hand. Wex left, came back and tracked them. Its the only plausible explaination or he would know how Luwin died (not in a sweep) and if there was a sweep Ramseys men sure as hell would not leave someone alive to tell the tale. Bran and Co. came out of the crypts 3 days later --- they were watching winterfell burn from inside their wolves - that's in the text. Wex could have easily witnessed all they did several days after the burning of WF- which would explain his inconsistencies. He is tracking them and assumes Luwin was caught in a sweep. 2. This is true but Manderly had forces there at the battle of winterfell/the wintertown. Martin specifically said in a "So Spake Martin" that there were indeed survivors of the battle and that these survivors would have returned home, though with confused tales. By now they should be on to something. Also, how likely is it that Manderly would just take wex's word for it without sending someone to investigate? Wex was an enemy before he became a Manderly ward. 3. I never said Rickon was not on Skagos. Why does everyone keep using this point? LOL - guys the thread is really only about Wex and Manderly lying to Davos about WF. IMO Manderly is working with the IBorn - that has to be a separate thread as there are a lot of quotes from the text that support this. Thanks for commenting!
  11. Wex specifically said that he heard their voices from up in that tree and again, If he was not lying about being there he would know how Luwin died instead of making up a story about Ramsey sweeping the godswood twice and killing who they found there. That did not happen. If it did Luwin would not have been alive to speak to Bran and Co. Also, the godswood is unburnt which conflicts Wex's story. However if he was not there and came back he could have found all the things that Bran and Co found 3 days after the burning of Winterfell as evidenced by the text and outlined in the very first post. He found their tracks. Tracks he is familiar with bc he tracked them before with Theon. Staying downwind from a direwolf yet being close enough to hear Osha say "we are going to Skagos" is, I feel, implausible. A mute enemy child showing up at Manderly's doorstep after what everyone believes Theon did would not have gotten the time of day IMO. There is more going on here. A lot more.
  12. 1. Luwin was ALIVE he was a maester - his death would have been relevant and if Wex was not lying and there was a godwoods sweep where Ramseys men killed anyone they found there (as pointed out in the text) then we would have seen a burnt godwood, bodies in the godswood, and they would not have left Luwin alive to spread the tale. However if wex wasn't there it would have appeared that Luwin was slain by a Bolton bc Osha took him out. Wex can count, very well - he's an excellent dicer and he's also a great tracker. The text is clear on this- he counted all 5 fingers then tapped one again. He was clearly saying 6. No miscommunication is there. 2. There is a reason Manderly would have made up the lie, however because that was not the reason for this thread- and because the textual evidence is very long I chose not to post that here. If you are all interested, I'll post the textual evidence I have for that as well. 3. Why does Manderly send Davos to Skagos? Because Rickon is there. No where in the thread did I say he wasn't.
  13. Jojen did not speak either and Wex specifically communicated in the chapter that he heard them from the tree. Also the other points I made in the first post, how do you justify that? No bodies in the Godswood, Luwin alive to speak to Bran, and the Godswood was not burnt? He came back and reported on what he saw- for me is the only plausible explanation. Or else he would have known how Luwin died, the godwood would be burnt, and we would have seen the bodies that were caught in the sweep that Manderly describes.
  14. ladyD

    Lyanna's condition.

    U know. I don't think anyone could have predicted the stupidity that was Brandon Stark going to KL to tell the Prince to come out and die. That has got to be the most arrogant stupid thing ever and it makes no sense lol. What was he thinking?!? Perhaps she felt that she should have the freedom to marry who she wished like Arya felt she should have the right not to marry some Lord and have his children. As a woman I can definitely understand the resentment one must feel literally being raised to be chattel. With ownership passing from your father to your husband. We simply do not know enough but I think the evidence points to a planned rendezvous with Lyanna not being abducted until what a year after the Tourney?
  15. ladyD

    Lyanna's condition.

    It seems like Lyanna begin to develop some type of affinity for Rheagar at Harrenhal. When she wept as he played. I'm inclined to believe that she genuinely found him to be a more palatable option than Robert B. Also, if she is as cunning as it is hinted she was, I am willing to bet life as a queen looked far more appealing than being Robert's Lady of Storm's End. Robert already had bastards by this time. Rheagar, on the other hand, had a wife who could not have children anymore. Lyanna could have lived as a queen and had relative freedom and happiness compared to being Robert's wife.