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  1. The thing I found odd about Joffrey's quote is that he's officially a Baratheon, and he tends to disparage the Lannister side of his family. We know he's 100% Lannister on both sides, but the characters there shouldn't. I know there's some speculation that Joffrey is only into sadism rather than sex. In that case he might not be willing to follow through on that threat.
  2. GRRM himself only came up with this twist recently, so I don't any random person to be able to guess it in advance. He's said there are approximately 25 characters dead on the show but alive in the books and the twist involves one of them. So iterate over all 25 of them and I'll assign 1/25 probability to a twist heavily involving them. Your theory doesn't count, because it's about Meera rather than Jojen and the show would not be prevented from doing it. I agree that the degree to which a twist is organic depends upon (among other things) timing. Many people expect Jaime to turn on Cersei as per her "valonqar" prophecy. This works best after Jaime goes through an arc of reconsidering his relationship with Cersei, and would not work in the first book. How would revealing that Meera is Jon's twin be "organic" in TWOW? Likewise, I'm not here to argue that the books won't go with R+L=J. Once you start distrusting what GRRM says, why believe any of that at all? Why would he be talking about this twist if he were so paranoid about people figuring it out based on such meager clues? D&D have gotten very loose with the source material. They are mostly just trying to reach the same destination, hitting the major plot points. Thematic foreshadowing has gotten a distinctly lower priority (many fans of the books were irritated that R+L=J clues were missing from the earlier seasons). I trust GRRM's public statements far more than your ability to guess what he's REALLY thinking, so claiming "foreshadowing" for something he claims he only thought up recently just indicates to me that you're seeing patterns that aren't really there. Talisa is a character invented for the show, and her fate is very different from the one her book analogue had. She's revealed to be pregnant so that she can later be stabbed in her lower torso, where such an infant would be developing. They refer to the idea of having twins as being "greedy", but any such child inside her is doomed. Doomed specifically at the Twins of House Frey. I try to pick on the weakest & most obviously wrong claims. In contrast, I try not to waste time arguing in the face of overwhelming evidence. I wasn't planning on being so explicit, figuring you could pick up on the analogy. I started using it at a Game of Thrones forum. People can get really worked up over some of these things, and I just like to remind everyone that it's all made up.
  3. The "couple" of characters don't have to be together as of the currently published novels. And you haven't explained why Jojen's death would prevent the books from going this route. In reality, siblings can have different eye colors. This series treats genetics unrealistically, but it's not like GRRM is bound to adhere to what he introduced for Joffrey elsewhere. Sudden reveals are not smooth/organic/natural, even if there's symbolic foreshadowing that one reader detects. Brienne is also those things you mention, but she's not Jon Snow's twin. I should put my cards on the table and say that I dislike R+L=J because I prefer Jon genuinely being a bastard & as lowborn as possible. So many POV characters are highborn, with Davos one of the few exceptions. Characters are important because of what they do, not who their parents are, and revealing that Jon is secretly the heir to the throne would be a bit like revealing that Tyrion was merely under a glamor that made him appear to be a dwarf. As I already said, GRRM said that the didn't up with the twist until recently, so it couldn't have been referenced then. Unless D&D are somehow incepting ideas into his brain that they can never use in their own series. I don't think you have to worry about spoiling anything because people are going to read the book GRRM actually writes and not the completely different one in your head. As The Wondering Wolf already pointed out, he's clearly referring to a mistake he already corrected without any of your complications that are supposed to be resulting in years between books (which GRRM explains by accurately noting how complex they've gotten). It's a common symptom of schizophrenia, which some fans put a lot of effort into mimicking.
  4. FictionIsntReal

    Audio book of ASoIaF (Not Roy Dotrice)

    As far as I know the only other audiobook is the original one done for A Feast for Crows, read by John Lee.
  5. GRRM typically declines to say anything rather than lie when he wants to conceal information about upcoming books. If you are accusing him of lying, I don't see how you can cite this interview one way or another. No, the word "group" isn't used at all at the link. Instead he said "it is something that involves a couple of characters, one of whom is dead on the show, but not dead in the books. So the show can’t do it, because they have killed a character I have not killed". Meera is alive on the show, so the show could do this. Actually, even if she had died they could reveal it anyway via Bran's visions or Howland Reed. This indicates to me that the twist involves the characters doing something. And the terms "natural" and "organic" are pretty standard terms used in plotting to describe the opposite of a deus ex machina, which comes out of nowhere. Again, you are assuming the conclusion that the story was headed for J+M prior to ADWD. Someone who doesn't embrace that theory doesn't have to explain why GRRM hasn't revealed it. If you read his pitch letter/outline, he says that he's writing a trilogy in which AGOT will depict a Westerosi civil war, ADWD depicts a Dothraki invasion and TWOW depicts war with the Others. That first book expanded into three books, which he wrote in relatively quick succession (1996, 1998, 2000). The political story just kept getting more complicated (to the point that the actual ADWD only re-introduces the Dothraki at the end, with no invasion imminent). In that same letter, he says that he loses interest when he knows how things are going to turn out, and that may be what happened. It was 5 years between ASOS and AFFC, then 6 between AFFC and ADWD, and even in the extremely unlike event that TWOW was published this year, it would be 7 years since ADWD. It sounds like his writing process has slowed down and he's gotten more interested in things like Targaryen history. Even the impact of a reveal regarding Meera seems unimportant, not enough to cause multiple years long delays. This just indicates to me that you see clues where they don't exist. D&D have a lot on their plates, and instructing their editors to place clues for a twist that (per GRRM) they can't use would be a waste of their time. Furthermore, as noted GRRM didn't come up with his new twist until 2015, so he certainly wouldn't have already told D&D when they were making season 3. Could you link to that interview? Do you know what kind of person believes mass media contains hidden messages only they can detect?
  6. Meera wasn't introduced in AGOT. In that very link it says "Last April, Martin told EW he came up with a twist on a long-time character that he never previously considered". So he came up with this around 2015, and hadn't considered it when writing any of the currently published books in the series. He also describes it as emerging organically from the character, not something that has been embedded via symbolism from the beginning. Furthermore, he indicates that this is a character killed off by the show, where Meera is still alive. Meera is a crannogman, she prefers spears to swords. Meera is a supporting character in Bran's story. His number of chapters peaked in A Game of Thrones & A Clash of Kings. There was less material once he left Winterfell and had fewer people to interact with. GRRM's original plan was for a five-year gap in which Bran would grow older under the tutelage of the Three Eyed Raven, removing that gap (because GRRM didn't want to skip over events in King's Landing) meant he was stuck in a spot that was supposed to be skipped over. Remember when I accused you of assuming your conclusion? It's considered a logical fallacy for a reason. GRRM was a screenwriter, which is admittedly not that high on the totem pole. But he's been relatively hands-off in recent years of the show because he doesn't have time to deal with that and continue with his books. Jackson is a director rather than writer, different from GRRM. Tolkien, again, was already dead even before Ralph Bakshi's film, much less Jackson's. That's a pretty dumb secret message, since Essos is obviously in the east and seems inspired by the slaveowning civilizations of the Meditteranean (while Braavos is Renaissance Venice). GRRM didn't write that episode, he wrote "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" (although the bear material was moved back from a later episode he didn't write). Not "may", but "definitely" I don't think there are enough adherents of this theory for him to waste much time trolling them. Tyrion plays a prominent role in the original pitch letter/outline. The Reeds do not. The childbirth killing the mother is the bit I was referring to, since GRRM has used it repeatedly and that's the big change you point to in Lucas' prequel trilogy.
  7. Aerys suspected that Tywin was behind Steffon's death. This is insane because the ship was destroyed by a hurricane. As for why Steffon failed, here is some speculation.
  8. In the original Star Wars, Luke & Leia were split up so Vader could not find them. Leia was even the princess of Alderaan, with the name Organa, so that when Vader confronted her he had no idea who she was. In comparison, it's kind of silly that Luke was still named "Skywalker" and was raised by Kenobi's brother, but I guess it's assumed that Tatooine was such a backwater (despite being Vader's home planet) that this wasn't a risk. Leia thinking she remembers her mother doesn't change the "CORE PLOT". There's a pretty big difference between Jon & Meera. Jon is a POV character (the one with the most ADWD chapters) who serves as our eyes at the Wall & Lord Commander of the Nights Watch. Meera is a supporting character in Bran's POV chapters. She appears together with Jojen Reed, and given the mystical nature of Bran's plot Jojen was arguably the more important of the two. Leia is the only notable female character in A New Hope, but GRRM gave us 4 such POVs in AGOT and didn't even introduce Meera until the next book. If GRRM is "just books", then I wouldn't say his competition includes films. I wouldn't even include authors who've been dead for decades among his competitors. George had already been in Hollywood. He made money writing scripts that never got produced, as well as some that were. He started writing ASOIAF specifically with disregard for the practicalities of production. Hollywood is obviously on the west coast. New York is the financial center in the east, which began as a trading port. You think GRRM has deliberately not advanced a plot in his books in order to ensure it was more than a decade away from a very minor plot point in Lucas' poorly received prequel trilogy? He teamed up with HBO because he had received multiple offers to adapt the books over the years, but always as feature films (thus competing with the Tolkien & Rowling adaptations) which would compress too much of the story. A long running tv series was the only possibility for him, although that wouldn't be feasible until HBO started spending enough money to put his deliberately impractical material onscreen (or an approximation of it). He already receives flak from his own fans about how many mothers die from childbirth in his stories. It's a writing cliche that removes the mother from the story and gives the kid a sad backstory. Tyrion was another POV character with that backstory who appears earlier than Meera. Using that plotline again wouldn't seem like ripping off Lucas but instead repeating his own tropes.
  9. I never claimed the "debacle" was for Lucas. I'm saying the extremely minor Star Wars change cannot be significant enough to constitute a "debacle" for GRRM. Just about everything you're saying still applies to the original trilogy. Retconning whether Leia has any memories of her mother doesn't matter.
  10. The Star Wars change is way too minor to constitute a "debacle".
  11. FictionIsntReal

    Why did Jorah push Dany to go to Asshai?

    I don't think Asshai is considered a comfortable city by anyone who isn't a shadowbinder.
  12. You are assuming your conclusion (often known as the fallacy of "begging the question"). The change seems minor enough that I doubt GRRM changed anything in response to that specific change.
  13. FictionIsntReal

    The Illyrio/Aegon thing

    Bloodraven & Aerion Brightflame argued for executing Bittersteel. Bloodraven merely locked up Daemon II because he knew that executing him would result in Bittersteel crowning the next Blackfyre, and that one might be pragmatic enough for Bittersteel himself to support.
  14. FictionIsntReal

    The Illyrio/Aegon thing

    Interesting. One of the reasons I'm skeptical of the theory that Aegon is a Blackfyre is that it seems unlikely that a branch of the Blackfyre family that anyone cared about wound wind up with its heir as a Lysene brothel slave. Illyrio is claiming that this marriage was notorious enough to bar him from the palace of Pentos, indicating that Tyrion could easily discover whether it's a lie, but leaving Pentos makes that less likely.
  15. Leia having a few memories of her mother vs none because her mom died in childbirth doesn't actually change things all that much.