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Arthur Peres

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Everything posted by Arthur Peres

  1. No one would be able to change Joffrey, the boy was rotten from the beggining, torturing animals, threatinig small folks, even when he tried to take some kind of recongition to robert he tried to murder a 8 years old boy. Fostering Joffrey is pointless and like others said if Robert tried it, he could be the next Jon Arryn. And it didn't work, if anything Sam ended up worse than he begun. Changing the sucession would lead to chaos, Viserys made every single lord swear to his daughter, but as soon as he died his court refused to follow he will, the realm broke apart and a civil war begun, his daughter had dragons and still couldn't make the lords follow her. Once Tommen becomes king, any ambition lord would side with Joffrey and use him to gain more influence. Tommen as king would also not change Stannis or Renly, they would still revolt against the Lannisters. True, but is the most safe way to pass this mess without causing a civil war. Sometimes acidents happens.
  2. Arthur Peres

    Does Asoiaf Have a True Protagonist? *SPOILERS*

    Theon feels real regreat. Jaime doesn't. Jaime is not making any good, like Lluewhyn said, he still perpetuating injustice on the Riverlands in the name of his family all throughout that book. If I were to belive for a second that he is saving lives, those are lives that he put on danger in the first place. This is him breaking someone legs and than giving them a crutch while pretending to be their savior. He blames the white cloak for his mistakes, but the hard truth is that he used the white cloak for his own gains from the moment he made his vows, vows that include celibate and from the beggining he intended to break and be with his sister.
  3. Arthur Peres

    Does Asoiaf Have a True Protagonist? *SPOILERS*

    Totally agree. There is also the mockery he makes of Robert, when he confess to Payne to have sleep with Cersei in front of the drunken pass out king, and that he would murder him if he waked up. He also go out of his way to confront Lancel about sleeping with Cersei. He still tried to kill Blackfish after taking Riverrun. He thinks about killing Tyrion. If Jaime is in a redemption arc he is not doing it right. "It was the white cloack that soiled me, not the other way around". This sums up his self reflection, he still refuses to take responsability for what he did, but now he blames Cersei. Compare this with Theon arc and we can see what true regret is.
  4. Arthur Peres

    Does Asoiaf Have a True Protagonist? *SPOILERS*

    I took notice of the series, by the show, I liked it a lot so instead of waiting to the 3 season, I went on to read the books. In the beggining I though that Bran was the main character, after all he is the first POV we see in the books, and by the time I already knew the fate of Eddard. Robb never got a POV, so he was cleary not the main character either. by the end of A Storm of Swords I was sure that the protagonist was Jon Snow, but today I think is Daenerys.
  5. Arthur Peres

    What is worse?

    It depends how it is written. Robb was always potrait as a honorable and just character, even his enemies like Kevan go out of their way to defend his honor. If House Stark did something morale disgusting as the Red Wedding Robb would need to be a totally diferent character. But sympaty for the characters does matter a lot. If was Cersei getting wrecked by Ramsey instead of Theon, I would probably not feel sorry for her at all.
  6. Rhaegar was more irresponsible than Robert, this in itself is a feat. In my country we have a saying: "the hell is full of good intentions".
  7. Robert cannot change the sucession in a whim, look what happened at the dance of dragons, when Viserys II did it. Even if he abdicated and left Tommem to be the new king, he cannot be sure of who will be his regent, and the most obvious candidate for the role is Cersei. Robert could not leave the IT. The best resolution for the kingdom would be Robert outliving Joffrey and Cersei.
  8. The rebelion only started after Aerys asked for Ned and Robert heads, so I can see your point about him being more acountable than Rhaegar. But a madman is in no condition to make judmental calls. As far as we know Rhaegar was mentally health, his actions are the ones that started the chains of events, and after all the shit show that he started he disapeared for close to a year. For those reason I blame Rhaegar more than Aerys.
  9. Not a villain but the most responsable for it. He is the one that in one stroke decided to piss of 3 of the great lords. I agree. In the early years you might be right, by the time Robert is regreting and moaning in self pity if he leaves the throne the one who grabs the throne is Joffrey. Stannis is also a self serving prick that pretend to not want to be king but that is his birth right, he also could let Renly get the throne, but he refused it. Not much would change.
  10. Robert never wanted to be king, he was wronged twice by Rhaegar, he only rebelled when Aeryrs asked for his head out of nowhere. Rickard had his matches south, he was finally integrating the North into the seven kingdoms, Rhaegar crushed and burned it, Aerys finished the job when he made a mockery of a trial and executed Brandon and Rickard. The wrong side in the rebellion is pretty clear and was the Targs.
  11. Rhaegar is the one to blame for the rebellion, he wronged 3 houses in one stroke. Aerys made things worst, but it was Rhaegar that started it all. Eddard Jon and Robert were defending themselfs. Do not need make things more complicated than they are.
  12. Arthur Peres

    How should Robb have gotten his sisters back?

    Let's agree to disagree then. I belive that if you have a strong card you should use it, depending of how much gold he can get from the ramson he can gatter another army like the 20k Stannis is getting now, and get his sisters back. Robb could use Jaime in several ways, but he never did, and lost him for free later on.
  13. Arthur Peres

    How should Robb have gotten his sisters back?

    Would probably complicate too much the plot. Rodrik's army for example, if they could reform like a real army they would take back Winterfell the next day, kill Ramsey, capture Theon and the whole north plot we have today would go down.
  14. Arthur Peres

    How should Robb have gotten his sisters back?

    Tyrion demands that Robb bend the knew are fine and expected, the one where he demands that Robb give Jaime his army and let himself become a hostage at KL with several other nobles after what happened to Eddard that is beyond provocative. How would you use Jaime in Robb's position then ? For what I'm taking from you Jaime can't get him peace, not his sisters, no victory. He is just a trophy that can't be used until the moment you're winnig so big that he is irrelevant, or that you're losing so bad that your cause is lost. Martyn is not very realistic when dealing with battles, the royal army under Rhaegar disapeared, Jaime's army ceased to exist,Stannis went from 20k+ to 1.500 after blackwater, Roose let 1/3 of his host be slaughter and is considered a good achivment. If we keep this as stardart the Lannister army is going to hell . The mercenaries already begun to switch sides, do you think a guy like Bronn wouldn't betray the Lannisters if Tywin is beaten and Robb is giving a castle and gold to the one the bring him the Queen's head?
  15. Arthur Peres

    How should Robb have gotten his sisters back?

    He was the one that returned with the party that broke faith, it killed at least 2 guards of Edmure, and was a mess not to say unethical. Robb was raised in a culture that execute hostages, and Cleos was implicated in the foil, this is not just a punishment to a action, this is also a mensage. I'm not saying to Robb dispose of Jaime, Cleos is the one of the chooping block, he would still keep his big hostage. “First, the queen must release my sisters and provide them with transport by sea from King’s Landing to White Harbor. It is to be understood that Sansa’s betrothal to Joffrey Baratheon is at an end. When I receive word from my castellan that my sisters have returned unharmed to Winterfell, I will release the queen’s cousins, the squire Willem Lannister and your brother Tion Frey, and give them safe escort to Casterly Rock or wheresoever she desires them delivered.” No provocations here, he is even retuning some hostages of his own. “Secondly, my lord father’s bones will be returned to us, so he may rest beside his brother and sister in the crypts beneath Winterfell, as he would have wished. The remains of the men of his household guard who died in his service at King’s Landing must also be returned.” “Third, my father’s greatsword Ice will be delivered to my hand, here at Riverrun.” No provocations here neither. “Fourth, the queen will command her father Lord Tywin to release those knights and lords bannermen of mine that he took captive in the battle on the Green Fork of the Trident. Once he does so, I shall release my own captives taken in the Whispering Wood and the Battle of the Camps, save Jaime Lannister alone, who will remain my hostage for his father’s good behavior.” Jaime remaining a hostage is a provocation, but not a big one. “Lastly, King Joffrey and the Queen Regent must renounce all claims to dominion over the north. Henceforth we are no part of their realm, but a free and independent kingdom, as of old. Our domain shall include all the Stark lands north of the Neck, and in addition the lands watered by the River Trident and its vassal streams, bounded by the Golden Tooth to the west and the Mountains of the Moon in the east.” Is the reason he is fighting for, independance, so again not a provocation. Now Tyrion terms “Here are our terms,” said Tyrion. “Robb Stark must lay down his sword, swear fealty, and return to Winterfell. He must free my brother unharmed, and place his host under Jaime’s command, to march against the rebels Renly and Stannis Baratheon. Each of Stark’s bannermen must send us a son as hostage. A daughter will suffice where there is no son. They shall be treated gently and given high places here at court, so long as their fathers commit no new treasons.” This is pure provocation, no one would let other house lead their own army, give the Lannisters even more hostages after they beheading Eddard. The golden cloack are not loyal to Lannisters, they fleed at first sign of problem when Stannis showed up. If Tywin is beat in battle Robb's reputation alone will make them turn the rest of the Lannisters in, if not, a promise of fortune and lands certanly will. You are using Sansa's life as value here, this just make my point stronger for why Robb should have rescued her early on. Robb getting their kin out and safe together with coin and his onw sister would give him enough room to keep control over the situation. He can give the Hornwood lands to Larence and please the glover, get Wyllis and Harrion for Karstark and Manderly and reward Bolton with coin and marry Sansa with Smalljon to please the Umbers. I think you overrate the value of Jaime here, he is more valuable than Sansa and Arya, but not by that much of a margin.
  16. Arthur Peres

    How should Robb have gotten his sisters back?

    Not when you have several other hostages, after the foil Tyrion tried he should be punished, since he is far away you take it on his kin, Robb at this point had Tion, Cleos, Willem and Jaime. In his place I would kill Cleos since he was involved, while keeping the other as hostages, and if he tried any of that again he would know that would cost the lifes of his kin. You do not broke faith in a negotiation and walks off unpunished. Robb's terms were harsh, but they weren't provocative, Northem and Riverlands independence, the freedom of his sisters and the rest of hostages, the bones of Eddard and Ice, in exchange for the hostages he had excluding Jaime and peace. Tyrion's terms were that Robb bend his knee, swear his sword for Joffrey and throw himself in a war he had no reason to fight and he would gain nothing out of it other than maybe be allowed to keep his head above his neck. agree. This makes no sense, if Robb has the only army left in the field he can impose any deal he want, he can demand his sisters, Ice, Northem independence, the head of Joffrey, Tywin, Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion, the lands of the Westerlands, as well as a payment for the damage caused, that Mycella marries Hodor and etc. What the Lannisters can do to negate him if they have no army? You are putting Robb bending the knee in the deal, this would never happen, my idea of negotiation was a trade of hostages, not a peace deal. Cersei would also never trade the life of Joffrey for Jaime. Robb's bannerman didn't jump on Catelyn when she freed Jaime in exchange of nothing. The Mormonts were even amicable to her at that moment, the only one angry and calling it treason was Karstark, and if he gets his son in the deal he might be more friendly towards it, Robb can even let him be the one beheading Willem when Arya doesn't show up.
  17. Arthur Peres

    How should Robb have gotten his sisters back?

    Agree, this is why I placed Harrion and Wyllis in the negotiation. Tyrion"terms" were more a provocation than a terms, Cleos even feared what would happen to him once he returned, and Tyrion only intention was to infiltrate some people to rescue Jaime. He promised what he didn't have (arya) and broke faith again... this is the kind of think that should have resulted in execution of hostages. Robb wasn't around in Riverrun at this point but if I was him and got news of it, Jaime would lose his thumbs and Cleos his head and send it to KL. I don't see a logic behind it. Tywin went to war when is least favorite son was captured, I don't see he hanging his sword once his other son is taken hostage. Jaime won't give Robb peace, but his return might give him his sisters.
  18. Arthur Peres

    How should Robb have gotten his sisters back?

    Robb destroyed 2 out 3 Lannisters army, he captured Jaime, Willem, Martyn, Cleos and Tion (all close kin to Tywin) he freely raided the Westerlands, and captured several castles and still we don't see the Lannisters trying to grasp any deal with him. Even if he somehow beat Tywin and march on KL I doubt Cersei would let Sansa live. I don't see Robb getting Sansa through pure force, he need to negotiate a deal and without leaving Jaime walk this is not viable. The way I see he losing less face with his bannerman is getting out they own kin, besides Wyllis and Harrion I don't remember any other notable hostage that was taken, but there were, he could also put them on the deal if you feel that is too little to gain, or get some coin out of it.
  19. Arthur Peres

    How should Robb have gotten his sisters back?

    You asked what if I was in the place of Robb, this is what I would do. And Robb did had the will to kill them, as long as he find morally correct. He also wanted to behead Joffrey, that is also a 12 years old boy . “In battle I might have slain Tion and Willem myself, but this was no battle"
  20. Arthur Peres

    How should Robb have gotten his sisters back?

    They can't kill the Nothern hostages, if they do Robb can kill 3x more hostages from the westerlands. One sword would not change the war. Robb won't get his sisters back through negotiation without giving Jaime back. Sansa and Arya can be used in alliances, Jaime as long as he stays in KG cannot. Willem losing his head is just consequence of the Lannisters falling to fulfil they part of the deal since they cannot give Arya.
  21. Arthur Peres

    What villains would you have wanted to see a POV from?

    Tywin when he learns that Jaime was taken hostage.
  22. Arthur Peres

    How should Robb have gotten his sisters back?

    Robb had 3 times more hostages than the Lannisters. He should have negotiate a trade of hostages much earlier. Trade his sisters plus Harrion and Wyllis For Jaime and Cleos Frey. This way he can at least gain favor with 2 of his bannerman. Once he finds out that Arya is not avaiable, still do the trade but then behead Willem Lannister.
  23. Arthur Peres

    Aegon's story is fake news and propaganda

    you forgot house Lannister.
  24. Arthur Peres

    Viserys does not go east

    Yes. I just think that Viserys or Aegon VI landing during the war of the 5 kings, would make things even more interesting.
  25. Arthur Peres

    Robb and the Hornwood crises

    Good points, but Eddard was the clear heir. Larence is not, and the Karstarks already have a claim on the Hornwood lands, without him. Wyman is a good example, there is also Smalljon or Galbart Glover. Whoresbane it's too old for Alys and far away from the sucession.
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