Lady_Qohor

That's an interesting theory. What would be the reason for faking her own death though? While some may have found it strange, there doesn't seem to be any reason to hide a marriage between Howland and Ashara, let alone go to the extremes of faking her own suicide.

I thought Catelyn considered Littlefinger a friend of Game of Thrones. Certainly she trusts him enough to convince Ned to trust him. That friendship would probably only strengthen if she was married to Jon. They would both spend time in the Vale and Catelyn would probably be lonely, given that she's possibly childless and her husband is much older than her. Littlefinger's proven himself clever and competent. Why wouldn't Catelyn advise her husband to take a seemingly clever, competent and trustworthy friend into his service.

Tinfoil theory that I don't actually believe but was fun to come up with: Glass candles are lightbulbs powered by electricity. The electricity is generated by the burning of a particular type of gas. The generator is small and at the base of the candle. Because it is extremely old, it has one or two cracks. As such when the glass candle is 'on' the gas leaks and causes people in the room to hallucinate. Because of confirmation bias and the brain's tendency to look for patterns and meaning in meaningless stuff, these hallucinations are interpreted as visions. The glass candles have suddenly turned on now because someone has worked out how to turn them on. Maybe it's part of a conspiracy, maybe it's a coincidence. Actual theory: I think the mechanics and origin of glass candles will probably never be revealed in order to contribute to the story's sense of mystery. I doubt the author has even decided what they are or where they came from.

Something is definitely up with House Dayne. I would however say that there are plenty of reasons for Ashara to want to kill herself that don't rely on her being in love with a Stark. Her brother has just been killed. Her friend Elia Martell has just been savagely murdered along with her children, whom Ashara likely spent some time with. Given the lack of Daynes in the current story, its possible Ashara lost other family members during Robert's Rebellion e.g. Her father. She probably also lost other friends in the Sack of Kings Landing and RR. Finally, if you believe Barristan, she might have also been through the traumatic experience of a stillbirth and possibly a rape as well.

Phew, glad we finally got it clarified that Robb's not a good brother. I absolutely understand the reasons Robb never traded Jaime for Sansa and his decision is completely reaslistic and in keeping with the themes and world of the series. I would have been disappointed in GRRM if he had made another decision. But...that doesn't mean I can't disagree with the decision on a moral level or that I can't judge the character for choosing to place a higher value on waging a bloody war, marrying Jeyne Westerling and killing Lord Karstark over the lives of his own sisters.

Exactly she has a history of not being able to deliver a healthy baby. That could mean abortions or it could mean fertility issues.

Because that's what a good brother would do when those his little sisters are in considerable danger at the hands of a family that has a history of killing highly valuable hostages (including his own father). The question of this thread is not whether Robb is a good war leader, its whether or not he is a good brother. Being a good war leader and a good brother are not always compatible and on this occasion he chose the former not the latter.

That's a good analysis and its a good argument for why Robb is a good king. However the question is whether Robb is a good brother. (Although I would question how to what extent Robb knows that the Ned thing won't happen again. He wasn't at the Sept of Baelor and he barely knows the Lannisters. He has no idea if Cersei, Tyrion or Tywin can control Joffrey, and he has very little idea how important Jaime is to Tywin - the guy can't be Tywin's heir after all) Robb leaves one (or potentially two) little sisters at considerable risk of danger because he doesn't want to upset his bannermen. Yet he is willing to upset his bannermen for the sake of marrying Jeyne and killing Lord Karstark. It seems that Sansa and Arya are way down on his list of priorities.

I don't know if this has been said before but I'd like it if the Faceless Men were removed or at least depowered to the skill of an ordinary assassin. There are too many instances in the series where a rich person has a problem that could be easily and quickly solved with a Faceless man but they are not used. And if the exorbitant cost of going to war is still cheaper than hiring a Faceless man, then who exactly in Planetos is rich enough to hire them? Whatever their pricing model is, it doesn't seem very plausible.

I think Jon Arryn dies a lot sooner, I doubt Littlefinger would be able to show as much restraint if Catelyn was right under his nose in Kings Landing for years. It's also likely that you would end up with relatively few Stark or Arryn kids. Lysa likely has fertility issues from what sounds like a poorly carried out abortion so there won't be many kids at Winterfell. Meanwhile if you believe the theory that Robert Arryn is Littlefinger's son (not saying I do) then it's likely Jon Arryn is infertile. As such a Catelyn-Jon marriage would result in no kids and Harry Hardyng as heir to the Vale.

I think I could believe all that if it were not for the fact that at several points Robb knowingly upsets some of his most powerful bannermen. Namely that he executes Lord Karstark and breaks the Frey betrothal to marry Jeyne Westerling. And to the medieval mind, both these actions are far more grevious than swapping Jaime for Sansa. Robb was willing to upset his bannermen to bring justice for the Lannister boys and save Jeyne's honour but not to save the lives of his little sisters (who were in the hands of a family known for randomly killing highly valuable hostages). You can argue about whether that makes him a good king or not, but it certainly makes him a very poor brother.

Again we know all of this but Robb does not. He barely knows any of them but what he does know is that they've let two highly valuable hostages (Ned Stark and Elia Martell) get killed on their watch, despite the fact that both killings were against their own self interest. Why would you risk a third stupid execution, especially when the victim would be your little sister? This isn't a democracy, Robb doesn't have to convince his bannermen to let him do anything. He chooses to put Sansa (and potentially Arya) at incredible risk because he's worried about looking weak. And how bad would looking weak be? Doran Martell is seen as weak and he's still got his head and the compliance of his bannermen. Roose Bolton is a very clever man, he didn't go against Robb because Robb looked weak, he betrayed Robb because Robb was losing the war. Meanwhile when Robb was winning the war when he held Jaime and was able to trade him for Sansa.

We know that but Robb doesn't. He barely knows Tyrion and Cersei and he's never even met Tywin. If Joffrey's mother can't stop him from killing Starks then who's to say that his uncle or grandfather will be able to? Yes, you could argue that Robb knows Tywin's reputation but are you really a good brother if you trust your little sister's life to an enemy whom you have never even met?

I think this is a very good analysis of what is going on in Robb's head and how he is justifying his actions...but I struggle to believe that deep down it is what is really motivating him. The main reason for this is that I absolutely believe Robb would risk his life for Sansa (or any of his siblings) under certain circumstances. For example if, in another universe, she had been kidnapped by a dragon or Gregor Clegane, I have no doubt that Robb would take that adversary on in single combat if it was the only way of getting her back. Even if it meant risking his own life and by extension the future of House Stark. I think the dreams of glory, of being the Young Wolf, play a large part in Robb's decision making, along with a desire for revenge against those who kill his father. Your post above shows what he believes his goals are, however I think that subconsciously his goals are actually, in order of priority: 1. His desire for revenge 2. His reputation/image/how he is seen by his bannermen 3. His family and the survival of House Stark 4. The North 5. His own life Not that he ever admit this to himself, or is even aware of it. He's only 15 and I don't think a son of Ned Stark would ever knowingly be motivated by self-interest.

I think I could buy that if anyone other than Joffrey was holding Sansa. Any other enemy would never have killed Ned as it made no tactical sense but Joffrey is not like other enemies and he has already shown that he is capable of acting against his own self-interest just for the sake of being cruel. There is nothing to suggest that Joffrey won't just get bored one day and kill Sansa. The Lannisters didn't stop him killing Ned, there's no guarantee they can stop him from killing Sansa. Indeed he was already having her beaten which in of itself is a good enough reason for the trade.