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Azarial

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  1. Azarial

    Aegon Targaryen and the IT

    Yes, exactly! Some of the stuff she does reminds me of James Bond, and how all women love him and he uses it to his advantage, and causes destruction everywhere he goes yet everyone loves him anyway. She's like that, and it's great. A dragonbone bow and arrow that she can fire from dragonback for precise hits, would be a great weapon for her and/or throwing spears. Or if they did they sped read them only, and didn't bother to read the books that came out after GRRM signed on the dotted line.
  2. Azarial

    Aegon Targaryen and the IT

    Yeah, just the links to her using it that way were so weak in comparison to the red herring that most people seem to believe it's their own creation. Makes speculating the end difficult when their foreshadowing is very inconsistent. Right now it looks like Jon for the win, on Sunday they could give us a curve ball and have it be Arya steals Dany's face and rules in her stead, since they said she'd kill the queen, never return, could be a lady and wear pretty dresses so long as she took a face, and would kill anyone who would harm Jon. It's possible, but the narrative logic that would make this satisfying instead of just shocking would be lacking. That's what I have issue with when it comes to the show.
  3. Azarial

    Aegon Targaryen and the IT

    I agree that the main beats will be the same. But, the difference will be that when the twists happen in the books there will have been enough hints that it will feel right. I had Arya as an option for killing the NK in the books as there are hints, but they are very subtle as this is still a long way off. But the show just skimped on the hints and went for shock, over story. At some point it needs to make narrative sense. It's not that twists are bad, or that there is a magic cut off, but they should be shocking in a way where you go, oh how'd I miss that. And to truly subvert and shock to the end would mean that there would be no ending. And that wouldn't be satisfying.
  4. Azarial

    Aegon Targaryen and the IT

    Yeah, I really thought it might go that way too until last episode. Now I worry that she may do something that results in innocents dying and that he won't be able to get past it But, maybe it's a red herring, and they just want to throw more false tension and unearned twists at us... I almost hope for that at this point. Edit: The other thing I considered is he take the Kingship, only until the people get to know her, and respect her then steps aside. I could live with that.
  5. Azarial

    Aegon Targaryen and the IT

    This, a million times this. No matter what it is still a story, and needs a satisfying ending of some sort. There is no way to do this and avoid all tropes as that would eliminate the elements of good story telling.
  6. Azarial

    Aegon Targaryen and the IT

    I agree. I think seems happy for fans, as he's alive and got the crown, but it's really bitter for him as all he ever wanted was to be a Stark. I also think GRRM has already subverted Jon and Dany, just not in the way people thought. I always thought Dany was playing the typical male fantasy lead, and Jon the female fantasy lead. So that is a subversion. The show muddied this by changing some key things that make this more clear in the books, like having Jon go do all sorts of flashy sword fights that he doesn't do in the books, but if you think of the nights watch as being sent off to be a septa, and him being hidden for his safety, and others protecting him all the time he is Snow White, even being kissed back to life. Heck he even has an aggressive person trying to steal his virginity repeatedly. Dany is the Prince in exile who fights against all odds to get home and kill the evil King that stole his throne. She uses men sexually, and enjoys conquest, but not the slow every day stuff (just like Robert) How is that not a form of subversion? The other trope I think GRRM is subverting, but that the show butchered and is going to get all sorts of flack for from their handling of the subject matter, is the benevolent female ruler comes in and cleans up the mess left by the war mongering men, and the realm is at peace under her gentle reign because shes a girl. GRRM making a male character that has all the female trope character traits that people believes makes them better rulers, and making some female aggressive war monger types to fight gender stereotypes is something GRRM would do no? Except GRRM has all sorts of gender bending, and has males and females doing typical things as well, making the whole thing more balanced. The show didn't seem to catch this theme and made a mess of it. Where as GRRM will have Jon ruling lead naturally from his anti war stance, to tie in with the other big theme of the novels. But, since the books are supposed to end the same, I think Jon will get the throne as part of this subversion, but that it won't feel like a subversion because D&D messed up, and decided to do dick jokes and give Kit flashy sword fights instead of hinting at a deeper theme.
  7. I have felt this exact way about the shows portrayal of Sansa, Arya and half the time Dany (Who they almost portray as two separate people depending on what the scene requires) You could take the three of them, swap the costumes and wigs and have them play each others characters and nothing about the portrayals would change. There is no way a realistically portrayed woman lead should be interchangeable with a different female lead. And I despise how they portray femininity as being bad, or weak. Both Dany and Sansa use femininity as a source of power in the books, and their arcs and characters were stronger for it.
  8. I agree that the issue is season 7-8 having such accelerated pacing resulting in the proper development of her arc being lost. No, there are some hints but they are to subtle. D&D doing that interview about how in the original pilot no one knew Jamie and Cersei were related has me thinking they've made that same mistake again. But, I think people in world, and thus the fandom have misunderstood the prophecies. But, that links to a different post, so I'll explain more when I get there. I agree, he is writing around the characters, and the issue this season is that D&D are rushing so much that all sense of character has been lost, so the plot is in the driver seat and that can make it feel like a character like Dany is being vilified. Some well used character beats would have helped a lot, but they were either absent or not impactful enough to make this feel believable. For starters care enough about the men to let them re-group. Send riders or ravens to all the other Lords explaining the situation, and denouncing the Iron throne, and Kings Landing. Declare Winterfell the new capital, defend and reinforce the Neck and wait. Why would this result in less death? Cersei wouldn't have a million hostages. Cersei's claims of them just wanting to usurp her and kill the people would be proven false. If she wants to do anything she would have to come to them, have to face their dug in rested troops, not the other way around. If the other houses back them and not her, she has no food, no supplies, no taxes for income and her army is sellswords. It wouldn't be quick, but it would be more effective and cost less lives. They don't need to go in and kill her, they just need to take her power, you know choke her off at the neck... We don't know how she would be remembered in world. It's fans that have labeled her as mad, and Cersei no doubt. But if Jon wins he writes the history. He wouldn't vilify her. He'd explain the tragic nature of it all, her good intention, he's not the type to allow her name to dragged though the mud. I agree with you on GRRM's intent, but I think D&D did a poor job of conveying this message. I think we are supposed to feel for her, and understand her actions despite knowing that they are wrong, but they seem to be forcing her to the brink to quickly for viewers to fully empathize. I think GRRM using the Dark ages and Age of enlightenment is what the prophecies are really about, I think we with our real world knowledge are supposed to make the leap that light bringer means bringing enlightenment, and red sword is the ruler that brings this. Red Dragon Ruler. Mel didn't die before the literal dawn after all. So if the Prince that was promised still hasn't brought the Dawn, Bran worrying about who Jon is, since it impacts the fate of the people in Westeros makes sense. The Arya thing was supposed to be our clue that we all got it wrong. I just wish D&D handled it better so that GRRM's intended anti war themes weren't lost. That his showing painstakingly what he thinks makes a good ruler wasn't lost (FYI it's not a man that is stupid, that is a show only construct that boggles my mind). I also wish they wrote the female characters better since this loss of depth, and indelicate handling of their arcs that are supposed to show us that the system is faulty and drove these women to such great length being lost is what leads to many fans thinking that the story is sexist. But, what Varys said, should have hinted at the fact that the Lords will only follow a man until someone forces them to change, by changing the rules. (remember that Tywin quote about Aegon changing the rules) Jon will change the rules, place women in roles of power like wardeness of the North. But, the show mishandled it, so fans will hate it all the same...
  9. Azarial

    Orphans of the Greenblood Conspiracy

    Oh, right, I forgot that she burned the godswood.
  10. Azarial

    Orphans of the Greenblood Conspiracy

    Makes sense. I always thought there was a link to the hammer of the waters and the wall. I think it was the same magic used, just that the wall is a water hammer frozen mid strike, so to speak. Not sure how, but the frozen river that Jon describes as a second wall but even taller in the frost fangs has had me thinking this for a while. But I never thought of the type of magic causing her greyscale to re-awaken. Jon Coninngton is at Storms end, and that is likely built with Children's magic as well. That could go very badly for him and fAegon. And they are set up to connect with some of the Greenblood through Arianne. So if the Greenblood are linked to this magic they could either help or hurt their invasion without most people ever knowing. Or if it really is the same magic, the cure may be the same. Meaning the stone men seem to mindlessly attack people, and there is mist involved and it's hard to see them in the mist. And that sounds like the Others, so maybe the others are a frozen version of the stone men? That could make any knowledge that the Greenblood have invaluable.
  11. Azarial

    Wow, I never noticed that v.17

    Could the link be that the Northerners worship trees, then later (near house Blackwood I believe) we are shown a penny tree. Then that could link to the tree soldier concept, as well as the corpse thing. As we get a corpse of trees that can be paired with the copper tree (since that is what a penny tree boils down to). And if you believe the wights are linked to the trees, or controlled by them in some way this may be a hint at that? Similar to the sentinel trees being winter soldiers cloaked in snow. (can't remember the exact wording, but that is the jist) or maybe it's that copper and blood taste the same, so it's like paying the blood price? Just throwing ideas out to see if anything clicks with someone. hmm... just wondering what coppers being linked to a blood price could mean if linked to Tyrion and the tax on prostitution, given the whole Tysha thing especially since that plot is tied in with his traveling with Penny...
  12. Azarial

    Orphans of the Greenblood Conspiracy

    Adding on to what @Widow's Watch and @Ylath's Snout have said about water magic, anti dragon magic etc. Could their knowledge be related to grey scale? That curse was linked to the Rhoynar and there is a possible epidemic of that disease heading to Westerose. They may know how to either stop it, or weaponize it depending on their goals.
  13. Azarial

    Meanwhile back at the Wall

    Okay, so Bran can be woken, but not easily? I am so rusty on the Bran stuff... Ah, so the Red wedding thing is just a couple of lines of recall. I can see how I missed it then. I was thinking something more detailed, and was wondering how I could forget that. But it makes sense now Umm, I just remember it was Ran and I think it was in the Jon Snow re-read thread, but could be learning to lead as it was drawing parallels with Jamie... I read it a long, long time ago. I keep wanting to piece all the dreams together fully, as he just mentioned it almost in passing and didn't fully type it all out. I only remember it was him because the stupid dragon thing had been bugging me forever and as soon as I read it, it just made so much sense. I would have never figured out that the wolf in Jon's crypt dream was Lyanna without that post.
  14. Azarial

    Meanwhile back at the Wall

    This is one of my favorites and she punched him in the stomach, just like Jon described being stabbed by Bowen feeling like a punch. Oh, and the reason I asked if he heard him as Summer, and you said he did. Is that he could have been woken because he heard him as a Wolf, and that triggered him to wake and doesn't really mean that they were able to wake him by interacting with his human body. If Summer was gone, and he woke that way, then we'd know it could be done. Been a long time since I read Bran though, as I did a character by character read and he was one of the first I read so as a result he's one of the most foggy detail wise for me. If I misunderstood and Summer was at a different location then we'll know that he can be woken. Like I said, I thought his ability seemed to work differently, but these details are what matter in figuring it out and there are way to many for one person to keep straight! I didn't remember the red wedding thing, still don't but I believe you. So Bran and Jon seem unique in this way, at least so far. It will be interesting to see if Arya begins to sense them in the next book. As for Mance, I saw it as Mance not treating him how I'd expect on the last read but every read I notice something new so maybe I'll think differently this time lol I'm constantly changing my mind on characters like him, as we know so little about them. ------------------ Okay, been busy so sorry for not replying sooner to everyone. The howling, that is something I noticed and I noticed two odd mentions that I think relate to this. I don't think it means Ghost makes a sound when Jon is in him, I think it is mentally calling out. We are also told in a Dany chapter (Poison berry chapter), and a Sansa chapter (On the mountain in the vale, don't remember if it was climbing or descending, sorry) that they hear a ghostly wolf howl (though the wording varies, but it's enough that I wondered if this was Ghost calling out to Jon's missing family members, the ones who don't have wolves. Or when he can't sense their wolves.) Okay, I just re-read up to the wolf dream for Jon. Two things I notice are that he seems to sense Ghosts moods, but doesn't realize that is what he is doing just prior to this, and Jon is so unaware of all of this it's hard to know for sure. Then after he tries to dismiss everything as just a dream when Halfhand questions him, so that does make me wonder how many of these dreams he's had but ignored. Then we see Ghost searches and calls out by howling, then Bran answers and his reply "Jon?" has a question mark. That is what initially made me think Jon initiated the contact. I knew there was something, but got the order all jumbled and thought there must have been a trigger for Jon, but it doesn't look like there is. It just seems sudden as Jon is unaware of all the wolf connections and seems to ignore it as dreams, and if emotions blend he doesn't seem aware, and thinks it's all his own emotions. But there are hints about him being uneasy and sensing/smelling cold at the fist that don't really make sense given what we know of him up until this point, but do fit with how Ghost is acting. He seems to attribute it to Ghosts actions making him uneasy, but I wonder. It can go either way though, as his lack of awareness and reflection make it impossible to know for sure. The other thing was, he was searching for the wolves and (as Ran pointed out way back on an old thread where he explains how these two wolf dreams fit together, along with how Jamie's dream and Jon's crypt dream, and Theons feast dream all fit together--as I would never have figured either of those out on my own) he first links with Summer, as he smells wolf, then tree, then boy, then earth, then stone, then death. And the order seems to indicate how the connection happened. (Well to me anyway haha) I think Ghost called out, and reached summer, who via Bran and the crypts (likely from roots) was linked to the tree, and the earth (like I said earlier, I think the roots are how the signal crossed the wall, and this is why Jon smells wolf , but sees a tree) Then he smells the stone of the crypts and death, since Bran is in the crypts. But the order seems to indicate that Jon reached Summer through Ghost, but this was only able to happen because Bran was linked to Summer and the heart tree simultaneously, likely because the roots run through the crypts. I hope that makes sense... If this is all linked through the roots, could that mean that the magic of the wall is fueled by the magic of Winterfell in some way? And maybe the crypts help fuel it? Or if the Wall is a hinge like Mel says, that Winterfell uses the roots and blood magic to draw power from the hinge for whatever magic the crypts possess? Blood being washed in the cold dark pond beneath the heart tree must mean something right? Okay, the next interesting thing I noticed and it links to the Ghost howl. Is that when they hear, or see this, in the same location they each have some symbolism surrounding ants. Dany has them crawl over a wall, searching for a nest on the other side and squashes some of them (Gods eye or Winterfell, the objective of the Others is all I can think of here), Sansa see's the Vale lords down below when they are discussing overthrowing them and thinks they look like ants and thinks about squashing them, and Jon sees the Free folk, "a swarming mass of riders charged a shield wall, astride horses no larger than ants. And links the sounds of the battle to the rustling of steel leaves. Leaves rustling is the Old gods talking, so I take this as a warning, or message of some sort? But, it matches up with what Dany and Sansa saw, so I don't think it's a warning of the Free folk, but a warning of the Others. The dirt enclosures and people being described as a pox on the earth seems relevant to me as well, but don't even have a guess as to what it means. Then the gust of cold from the ice white mountains and an attack from above that shuts out the sun. (I know it was the eagle, but the description was odd enough that it catches my attention every time.) I think this is all end game stuff, or at the least trying to show Jon what's coming, and maybe why. But have no solid theory on it yet. To bad Bran wasn't there for this part, since Jon almost never reflects on or interprets anything. I'm not up to the porridge or yellow eye stuff yet, so don't want to comment on it until I re-read it in context. I just remembered it and thought it might be before this, but since it's not I'll have to wait to see what I think, if anything.
  15. Azarial

    Meanwhile back at the Wall

    I haven't gotten there yet. But I will let you guys know of anything I notice that might be relevant. I haven't even read the last few days though, darn mandatory school meetings and concerts eating up my free time, but it's the weekend so I'll have some time now
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