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Azarial

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  1. Azarial

    Orphans of the Greenblood Conspiracy

    Oh, right, I forgot that she burned the godswood.
  2. Azarial

    Orphans of the Greenblood Conspiracy

    Makes sense. I always thought there was a link to the hammer of the waters and the wall. I think it was the same magic used, just that the wall is a water hammer frozen mid strike, so to speak. Not sure how, but the frozen river that Jon describes as a second wall but even taller in the frost fangs has had me thinking this for a while. But I never thought of the type of magic causing her greyscale to re-awaken. Jon Coninngton is at Storms end, and that is likely built with Children's magic as well. That could go very badly for him and fAegon. And they are set up to connect with some of the Greenblood through Arianne. So if the Greenblood are linked to this magic they could either help or hurt their invasion without most people ever knowing. Or if it really is the same magic, the cure may be the same. Meaning the stone men seem to mindlessly attack people, and there is mist involved and it's hard to see them in the mist. And that sounds like the Others, so maybe the others are a frozen version of the stone men? That could make any knowledge that the Greenblood have invaluable.
  3. Azarial

    Wow, I never noticed that v.17

    Could the link be that the Northerners worship trees, then later (near house Blackwood I believe) we are shown a penny tree. Then that could link to the tree soldier concept, as well as the corpse thing. As we get a corpse of trees that can be paired with the copper tree (since that is what a penny tree boils down to). And if you believe the wights are linked to the trees, or controlled by them in some way this may be a hint at that? Similar to the sentinel trees being winter soldiers cloaked in snow. (can't remember the exact wording, but that is the jist) or maybe it's that copper and blood taste the same, so it's like paying the blood price? Just throwing ideas out to see if anything clicks with someone. hmm... just wondering what coppers being linked to a blood price could mean if linked to Tyrion and the tax on prostitution, given the whole Tysha thing especially since that plot is tied in with his traveling with Penny...
  4. Azarial

    Orphans of the Greenblood Conspiracy

    Adding on to what @Widow's Watch and @Ylath's Snout have said about water magic, anti dragon magic etc. Could their knowledge be related to grey scale? That curse was linked to the Rhoynar and there is a possible epidemic of that disease heading to Westerose. They may know how to either stop it, or weaponize it depending on their goals.
  5. Azarial

    Meanwhile back at the Wall

    Okay, so Bran can be woken, but not easily? I am so rusty on the Bran stuff... Ah, so the Red wedding thing is just a couple of lines of recall. I can see how I missed it then. I was thinking something more detailed, and was wondering how I could forget that. But it makes sense now Umm, I just remember it was Ran and I think it was in the Jon Snow re-read thread, but could be learning to lead as it was drawing parallels with Jamie... I read it a long, long time ago. I keep wanting to piece all the dreams together fully, as he just mentioned it almost in passing and didn't fully type it all out. I only remember it was him because the stupid dragon thing had been bugging me forever and as soon as I read it, it just made so much sense. I would have never figured out that the wolf in Jon's crypt dream was Lyanna without that post.
  6. Azarial

    Meanwhile back at the Wall

    This is one of my favorites and she punched him in the stomach, just like Jon described being stabbed by Bowen feeling like a punch. Oh, and the reason I asked if he heard him as Summer, and you said he did. Is that he could have been woken because he heard him as a Wolf, and that triggered him to wake and doesn't really mean that they were able to wake him by interacting with his human body. If Summer was gone, and he woke that way, then we'd know it could be done. Been a long time since I read Bran though, as I did a character by character read and he was one of the first I read so as a result he's one of the most foggy detail wise for me. If I misunderstood and Summer was at a different location then we'll know that he can be woken. Like I said, I thought his ability seemed to work differently, but these details are what matter in figuring it out and there are way to many for one person to keep straight! I didn't remember the red wedding thing, still don't but I believe you. So Bran and Jon seem unique in this way, at least so far. It will be interesting to see if Arya begins to sense them in the next book. As for Mance, I saw it as Mance not treating him how I'd expect on the last read but every read I notice something new so maybe I'll think differently this time lol I'm constantly changing my mind on characters like him, as we know so little about them. ------------------ Okay, been busy so sorry for not replying sooner to everyone. The howling, that is something I noticed and I noticed two odd mentions that I think relate to this. I don't think it means Ghost makes a sound when Jon is in him, I think it is mentally calling out. We are also told in a Dany chapter (Poison berry chapter), and a Sansa chapter (On the mountain in the vale, don't remember if it was climbing or descending, sorry) that they hear a ghostly wolf howl (though the wording varies, but it's enough that I wondered if this was Ghost calling out to Jon's missing family members, the ones who don't have wolves. Or when he can't sense their wolves.) Okay, I just re-read up to the wolf dream for Jon. Two things I notice are that he seems to sense Ghosts moods, but doesn't realize that is what he is doing just prior to this, and Jon is so unaware of all of this it's hard to know for sure. Then after he tries to dismiss everything as just a dream when Halfhand questions him, so that does make me wonder how many of these dreams he's had but ignored. Then we see Ghost searches and calls out by howling, then Bran answers and his reply "Jon?" has a question mark. That is what initially made me think Jon initiated the contact. I knew there was something, but got the order all jumbled and thought there must have been a trigger for Jon, but it doesn't look like there is. It just seems sudden as Jon is unaware of all the wolf connections and seems to ignore it as dreams, and if emotions blend he doesn't seem aware, and thinks it's all his own emotions. But there are hints about him being uneasy and sensing/smelling cold at the fist that don't really make sense given what we know of him up until this point, but do fit with how Ghost is acting. He seems to attribute it to Ghosts actions making him uneasy, but I wonder. It can go either way though, as his lack of awareness and reflection make it impossible to know for sure. The other thing was, he was searching for the wolves and (as Ran pointed out way back on an old thread where he explains how these two wolf dreams fit together, along with how Jamie's dream and Jon's crypt dream, and Theons feast dream all fit together--as I would never have figured either of those out on my own) he first links with Summer, as he smells wolf, then tree, then boy, then earth, then stone, then death. And the order seems to indicate how the connection happened. (Well to me anyway haha) I think Ghost called out, and reached summer, who via Bran and the crypts (likely from roots) was linked to the tree, and the earth (like I said earlier, I think the roots are how the signal crossed the wall, and this is why Jon smells wolf , but sees a tree) Then he smells the stone of the crypts and death, since Bran is in the crypts. But the order seems to indicate that Jon reached Summer through Ghost, but this was only able to happen because Bran was linked to Summer and the heart tree simultaneously, likely because the roots run through the crypts. I hope that makes sense... If this is all linked through the roots, could that mean that the magic of the wall is fueled by the magic of Winterfell in some way? And maybe the crypts help fuel it? Or if the Wall is a hinge like Mel says, that Winterfell uses the roots and blood magic to draw power from the hinge for whatever magic the crypts possess? Blood being washed in the cold dark pond beneath the heart tree must mean something right? Okay, the next interesting thing I noticed and it links to the Ghost howl. Is that when they hear, or see this, in the same location they each have some symbolism surrounding ants. Dany has them crawl over a wall, searching for a nest on the other side and squashes some of them (Gods eye or Winterfell, the objective of the Others is all I can think of here), Sansa see's the Vale lords down below when they are discussing overthrowing them and thinks they look like ants and thinks about squashing them, and Jon sees the Free folk, "a swarming mass of riders charged a shield wall, astride horses no larger than ants. And links the sounds of the battle to the rustling of steel leaves. Leaves rustling is the Old gods talking, so I take this as a warning, or message of some sort? But, it matches up with what Dany and Sansa saw, so I don't think it's a warning of the Free folk, but a warning of the Others. The dirt enclosures and people being described as a pox on the earth seems relevant to me as well, but don't even have a guess as to what it means. Then the gust of cold from the ice white mountains and an attack from above that shuts out the sun. (I know it was the eagle, but the description was odd enough that it catches my attention every time.) I think this is all end game stuff, or at the least trying to show Jon what's coming, and maybe why. But have no solid theory on it yet. To bad Bran wasn't there for this part, since Jon almost never reflects on or interprets anything. I'm not up to the porridge or yellow eye stuff yet, so don't want to comment on it until I re-read it in context. I just remembered it and thought it might be before this, but since it's not I'll have to wait to see what I think, if anything.
  7. Azarial

    Meanwhile back at the Wall

    I haven't gotten there yet. But I will let you guys know of anything I notice that might be relevant. I haven't even read the last few days though, darn mandatory school meetings and concerts eating up my free time, but it's the weekend so I'll have some time now
  8. Azarial

    Sam in basic training

    Ah the Laziness issue. 'cause playing nurse maid to a dying man, a sick baby, and a grieving mother while going to the docks every day to search for passage and news reports for Aemon, hauling water since Gilly is to afraid to leave the room is so easy compared to Dareon saying I want the biggest bed you have, blowing a bunch of money then saying I can't stand to be here with the baby I'll go sing (something he loves to do, and is his official job for watch, as his specific talents were considered too) and see if I can make some money for food, then blowing it on a prostitute is so much harder... somehow? And fear of someone attacking him with a weapon, like we see with the bravo's that Arya chased away when he stuttered and froze the same night as the fight, and extreme anger overriding his fear resulting in a tussling match with no weapons, with a guy that he has trained with for months in order to not fear him as much as he would someone else is somehow proof of his fears of fighting with weapons being fake and thus laziness? apparently... Not doing archery while rowing, working in the rigging, mopping decks, and all the other things we hear of him doing is lazy, somehow. But, this is coming form the same person who thinks bathing a child in blood, declaring him useless, and threatening to kill him if he doesn't join an organization that would likely result in his death isn't abuse so... I've enjoyed talking to you, if you start an Arya thread I'll be there as she's a great character with a complicated arc. But I've had all I can stomach of this thread and won't be coming back to it.
  9. Azarial

    Sam in basic training

    To be fair, I knew exactly what @Katerine459 meant. Because the greater conversation at that point was focused on Sams empathy, and sensitivity. Thus those qualities being the focus of the post was implied. As a result I didn't understand your point until it was explained, since I saw it differently. So, I'm sure it truly was just a misunderstanding. @Bernie Mac I didn't bother explaining as you have twisted much of what I've said, and ignored major points I make, so I gave a short answer, as that is all I could be bothered to do given that you don't seem to be reading what I write and looking up quotes and making reasoned statements takes time that I'd rather spend with someone who is actually interested in having a discussion and not an argument for the sake of arguing. I said in a previous post that beheading a deserter is a punishment set by the nights watch and the crown and is the same everywhere and therefore doesn't count as an example of how one lords justice compared to another. Yet you keep using Garred as your example of Ned's justice. It is irrelevant. Jorah was a Lord, Ned punishing him would be done as warden of the North. Gregor, was a small Lord, and acting on behalf of his Lord, the Lord of the Westerlands who also happened to be a Warden, and the punishment was done in Ned's role of Hand of King. They are not examples of him acting as a Lord. Lords do not punish other Lords. Wardens punish Regional Lords, Regional Lords punish Lords, Kings punish wardens. House Karstark can't just decide to punish the Lord of house Umber for example. That isn't how it works. House Tarly is a vassal of house Tyrell. A Lord deals with small holdfasts, landed knights, and small folk. House Tyrell punishes the Lords. If the concern was the spread of disease, and not a sign of him treating her differently because she is a prostitute then the men would have been washed and imprisoned until they were proven clean too. They can go and sleep with another prostitute who will then pass it on to more men as he left them running free. I'm simply saying that if the reason he punished her is what you stated, and if the treatment of soldiers and small folk is equal it would need to apply to all of them. It would work to get the king to declare Dickon as heir. Here is how we know. We see the king strip all lands and titles from people and families and give them to someone else. We have the example in story of Connington being removed and remaining lands and titles given to his cousin, but staying in the family. Him going into exile and coming back wouldn't happen with Sam, so don't argue that. He could be given a new name and a holdfast of his own like a landed night, as Samwell Tarlyk. Not unlike what we see with the Karstarks, younger brothers that were given a new name to differentiate them. New name, new house, no claim, problem solved. The King would grant this as it would be best for everyone, and takes minimal effort from him and Sam would want it. The only reason not to do this is Tarly's pride. He wanted Sam to die hunting or in the watch so that he could say he died doing something manly.
  10. Azarial

    Out of Context Quotes

    Now that's funny.
  11. Azarial

    Sam in basic training

    Pretty sure an official letter from the King, or even the Warden would be enough to deal with the inheritance issue. The King is the law, so that should be all it would take.
  12. Azarial

    Sam in basic training

    Great, you showed Ned doing justice as Warden of the North, and hand of the king, where he deals with punishing Lords and two of those were showing him punishing lords for their mistreatment of the small folk. So Ned punishes Lords who mistreat the small folk. If Randyll is the same and if the punishment of the prostitute was to prevent the spread of disease as you claim, you won't mind quoting the part where the men were given the same treatment as her right? And your examples are not for Ned being a Lord, they are for hand of the king and warden of the north. Sam wasn't training to be either of those last I checked. You do realize I said Lords in general and that the starving people were poachers right? You did notice that I was talking generally and not about Randyll? That I didn't say anything about the guy who stole from the Sept? Hard for me to take you saying I miss the point seriously when you didn't even read my post well enough to know that I wasn't talking about Randyll. Rast isn't everyone. Most he talked to, some he argued with or threatened. But it's the ones that he only talked to that become Sams friends and base of support, so they are the ones that are relevant. Sam was never supported by Rast, he just wasn't beaten by him. I said the wall is better than being under Lannister or Bolton, as we are shown through Arya how they treat the small folk. I also said Sam wasn't a good fit for the wall as it's an organization built around fighting and would have done better as a Septon or a Maester. I fail to see how that has any bearing on it being better than being under those two houses. But apparently you think torture and being hunted with a pack of dogs is better than the wall. To each their own I guess. I mean Theon is clearly being treated well, right? But, hey, Sam didn't need to go to the wall he can just choose to be a peasant and his dad will have no worries, because that kills his claim more than the other two option we discussed...
  13. Azarial

    Meanwhile back at the Wall

    I haven't read the first three books in about 1 1/2 years as I was going through the last two, since they hadn't been picked over as much by other people. So I admit I'm fuzzy on the early details. But, you reminded me of a few things, and I am wondering about something a bit different. Bran and Jon can talk, but we haven't seen either of them do this with the other Starks. We've seen Bran maybe talk through a tree, but never mind to mind. Jon can sense the other wolves, but not the Starks. So what if both of them have a slightly unique ability to the rest and that is what allowed them to connect to each other, but not the rest? Could also be timing as we don't see them do it again either. The other thing we know, that you mentioned is that skin changer magic is blocked by the wall, but we know from Bloodraven that green seer magic isn't, likely from the roots running beneath the wall, through the ground. So maybe Jon was asleep, so in ghost and because of his special ability his mind is more receptive, and he was reaching out as he couldn't sense anyone making his mind very open. Bran can get his mind past the wall, and when he sensed Jon in Ghost he reached out, but not in the same way he does when he takes over Hodor, as he would be in the weirnet, and that may be why Jon saw him as a tree and not a wolf? Then he touches Jon and we see Jon's mind fly free for a bit when he goes from their right to looking at the Wildling encampment. And this mind flying free I've always felt was triggered by Bran. The part that messed me up is Jon talks to him then thinks of Bran touching him, and Bran thinks of it in reverse. No, I did explain it badly. I made it sound like Brans abilities were weak lol and that was never my intention. Where was Summer when he woke up hearing Hodor? And did he hear it in Summer, or started to wake then heard it, or is it to hard to know for sure? I know with Jon, the ravens words are in his dream. I don't remember seeing this with Bran, but that could just be my memory. I interpreted the fact that he could reach Summer whenever he wanted to mean, he didn't have to be asleep to initiate contact anymore, he could just reach out and his body would then appear asleep as his mind had left, and enter Summer with ease, but that he was still out. He also thought about connecting to Hodor being easier, but we see first hand that his body becomes lifeless. I just figured since Brans connection was full mind, where Jon shared senses, and things only that his connection was easier to make. It could be that Bran opened his third eye to far and that caused him to go to deep, and he is now learning to not send his full mind. I could see an argument for that. I know, and I can't make my mind up on what I think he's doing. If they are Northern Lords daughters that would help earn her trust in theory. Plus, if you're a young girl in the wilderness and some strange man tries to grab you that won't go well. But, a group of woman and a singer seem much less threatening (even if this particular group is more dangerous as a group lol). So I can see him being honest about that. If they went to long lake, and didn't see anyone (say they missed Alys, by a few days) then knowing the location of the Wedding decided to just keep heading that direction. It could happen. He could also be up to something crazy. But he went to the original wedding location, then went with Manderly to Winterfell. So this is where I go hmm... If the plan was Winterfell from the start, why go to Barrowton as it's farther south than Winterfell, why not go right there and poke around while it was empty. So, yeah, for that reason alone I don't think Winterfell was the original plan, or part of the ploy. The wedding was moved last minute to try and force Stannis into a trap, so there was no way for Mance to plan for that. I never got the meaning of that song, so maybe that's why I didn't think of it that way. Then again I see Mance as disciplined and he seems to value obedience in those around him. He couldn't get that many people to follow him otherwise. But, maybe he likes the structure, but not the restrictions? I also find it odd how he told this story about the cloak, and the first thing he does is tell Jon what type of cloak to wear, or at least to get a new one. Yeah, there is a bit of both to be sure. But, given all their kneeler comments, and you earn your place, who your father was doesn't matter. There should be almost no one who cares about the Stark name. They also do make note of who descended from past kings beyond the wall. So there is something we're missing, or that they aren't being honest about. He doesn't overtly protect him, but he accepted him pretty easily. Then put him with Tormund, who he knew liked him and would look out for him. I don't think he anticipated Orell's eagle attacking him, Varamyr said in the prologue that Orell had an intense hatred of Jon, that even started to taint how he felt about him. I also don't think he anticipated there being any people in the gift, as it's normally deserted, and Moles town is under ground, and they attacked at night. So his threats weren't all that serious in context. And if he made it to castle black with them he'd be seen as a deserter and would have to fight with them or risk turning on them at the lats minute, but the castle would be unprepared and under manned so the risk was minimal as him turning at that point would be suicide. He was mad about the fist and threatened to take his eye, but didn't. If any other nights watch guy had turned cloak and been caught in a lie that big I don't see them walking away with nothing but a couple scratches and a stern talking to, no matter how many women they were bedding. Jon believed they were walking into a trap and never told anyone, and Mance did nothing other then send him over the wall with Jarl and the Magnar, and given that his lie would have gotten many free folk killed if it weren't for the Other attack, that was the safest place for him and both Jarl and Magnar were with Mance before Jon arrived, so the threat could have been for show, we have no idea what they discussed before Jon arrived. So, he didn't baby him, but... Now, it could be that he hoped seeing all the corpses from the horses and the fact that the host was gone would be enough to get Jon to fully join them, so let him off easy? And maybe he was nice in the beginning because he wanted to give him a fair shot? It's possible, I can see that. Maybe, he kept him alive just because he didn't want to try and go south after killing a member of house Stark, or wanted a member of house Stark as a hostage. I can see that too, although as a hostage he would have been better kept close, especially after the fist. Everything about Mance is a bit of a mystery.
  14. Azarial

    Sam in basic training

    So they are 5-7 years apart. That just makes it worse, as Sam was young enough to become a Maester, or a Septon. Given that he liked reading and singing, and has high empathy Septon may have been the best fit for him, and the removal of the claim would have been instant by him being given to the faith wouldn't it? I know that is the case with the high Septon, and silent sisters but honestly don't remember for normal septons. I was giving hypothetical examples based off something we were already discussing to illustrate a point based on what we know of a character. I didn't mean in world or how lords would view it. Simply, if you say you hate____ and I make you train to do something related to that, with the reward being you get the thing you hate, that there is no reward as you would view that reward as a negative. So Sam becoming Lord of Hornhill isn't a reward, as he doesn't want to be a Lord, and knows he'd make a bad one. I never said Randyll raped anybody, or would. But we are told by him that Brienne deserves it. We clearly interpret his form of justice and things he says in regards to Brienne differently and I don't see us agreeing and I don't see the point in going in circles. But I also said that what I was saying was based on Sam and how he is, not based on how things normally work in the south. And since this is a thread about Sam how about we agree to disagree on Brienne and get back to the topic of thread? As for how Sam would see Ned as apposed to Randyll? For the crimes we see Ned would offer a choice. We are told that, and his preference is for them to go to the wall. We also never hear of him maiming people. Would Sam like the beheading part, especially the expectation that you do it yourself? No, but I said he'd do better with that system not that he'd fully like it. Randyll prefers to wash prostitutes with lye and toss them in a cell if a client gives them an STD, can you really see Ned doing something like that? How they handle justice is different, it would be seen by Sam as different. One form of justice he has to have peoples fingers cut off, or castrate people, the other isn't actually any worse than our modern day prisons as they get to be social, and be active, and go out into the woods etc. They actually have freedoms prisoners today don't have. But they have to work very hard for that, although the small folk have to work very hard regardless, so there's that. (And yes, I know that some are wrongly accused. That 'stealing' a deer hunted in the woods because your family was starving doesn't deserve a life sentence.) But compared to having a hand chopped off, hung, castrated or thrown in a dungeon, where three of those are also for 'life' (admittedly a short one for those being hung) the wall doesn't seem so bad. Again, not a value call on one way is better, just more likely for someone like Sam to be able to view it as more positive. As cutting the hand off of someone who is starving isn't really helping now is it? And we've seen how the Lannisters and the Boltons treat the small folk for example. I'd take the wall over being a small folk under either of them. So while the lords are supposed to protect and care for them, we've been shown that many of them don't really do that and Sam is smart enough that he would see that and it would bother him. But, he's not strong enough to fight for change. He would make a bad Lord for that reason, but a good adviser. Barbery never says what wrath would equal and we are given no examples from Randyll on this either so can't compare. But not responding to a military summons from your liege would be viewed by both as treason. But, when I said ruled with fear I meant the small folk, not the lesser lords. It's like Robert vs Stannis, Robert earned peoples love and respect. Stannis demanded it. In times of war you need the Randylls and the Stannis's I never said otherwise. But, Sam is gentle, and wouldn't be able to act like either of those two. I have two kids, and I used to work in an elementary school and you can tell a kids basic nature from the time they are infants. By the time they are 5-7 you know exactly what kind of kid you have. Taking a kid that is very sensitive, and gentle and expecting them to be a warrior just isn't going to work. It is a fault with the feudal system. Randyll, failed to notice who Sam was, and attributed it to him spending to much time with his mother and sisters. Then he tried to toughen him up, but because Sam is a very gentle and sensitive person it backfired. Then Randyll tried harder, and Sam eventually broke. By today's standards it was abuse and I do think he really damaged Sam. But, I also think he believed he was doing what was right. The thing is though, it was abuse even if he didn't intend it to be, and it damaged Sam and his self esteem to the point where he fears men in power. We see this by his stuttering, and shaking when asked simple questions in book one. But, that doesn't make Sam lazy. That makes him a very damaged boy that needed time to recover, and someone to believe in him. And yes, Randyll hired all sorts of people to train him, but he hired them to make him tough. So he would have hired hard men and likely told them not to coddle him. We see enough of Randyll to know he wasn't going have his son trained gently, there is nothing gentle about that man. So Sam never would have known a supportive man other than, perhaps, his Maester. This may be why he asked to become a Maester, and why Maester Aemon is the one male authority figure he seems fully comfortable with. He becomes stronger and attached to Jon, because when they met Jon sat and talked with him, and showed emotional vulnerability by telling him of the dream that scared him. Then the other boys started to accept him, without expecting him to be something he's not. He still trained every day. He picked up a sword and had to swing it, he didn't get a free pass as is implied by some people. He just wasn't being beaten anymore. That is when he started to become stronger. We see less stuttering, less hesitation, and strength in him long before he goes ranging. Was he a great fighter? Heck no. But leaving him alone with Alliser wouldn't have changed that and that was Jon's point. I'd have been fine with him being sent to Eastwatch to man the oars for a while to not have him be seen as getting a free pass, and I've no doubt Jon would be fine with it to as his concern was Sam being beaten to death, as he'd never be a warrior. His thoughts don't indicate that he thought Sam should be coddled. We see Sam do this later and it did him a lot of good. But, it was up to Aemon and Mormont where to put him. Jon almost ran him over with his horse when he tried to join Robb, but Sam stood his ground till the last second, then went and got other people and rode after him. Then argued with him when he found him. So no, it wasn't facing the Other. Sam from day one wouldn't have been able to stand up to Jon and go to other boys for help. The actions he took here aren't the actions of someone who is lazy either. He took action, on his own, for the good of someone else when it could have gotten him hurt or executed. He was motivated to take that risk because he knows that Jon stuck his neck out for him in the past and his actions would get him killed. He also does everything that is asked of him in his duties as Aemon's Steward. We never hear him complain. Not having high stamina, not being as physically strong as someone else doesn't make someone lazy. Being afraid and cowering isn't the same as being lazy. If their is a spider, and one person is deathly afraid of spiders and someone else has to squash the spider for them, that doesn't mean they were to lazy to squash the spider. Sam being afraid to fight doesn't mean he's to lazy to fight. Fear doesn't = lazy.
  15. Azarial

    Sam in basic training

    Dickon is 7-8 in feast according to Brienne and Sam is 18-19 I'm just replying in general, so this isn't all directed at Varys. Yours just happened to be the last post. Yes, he saw but that doesn't mean he perceived it as helping. We saw his form of justice at Maidenpool, and it can be perceived as cruel. I don't care if it's normal in their society, or if people need to be harsher in times of war. Just that seeing justice in that form won't appeal to Sam. Randyll rules with fear, Sam would have had more desire to be Lord if he'd been taught Ned's methods, as an example. And if you say I hate violence and your father goes you will go into the military and become a soldier and you'll love it because of all the fighting and killing, there is no reward. Sam didn't want to be Lord of Horn Hill because he had no desire to be like his father. That doesn't make him lazy. If you don't want to be a Lord like him, being a Lord like him in the end isn't a reward. It's really not a difficult concept. He would have worked hard at something he was suited for, we see this at the wall. He puts will do research for days without even leaving the vault. But as a Lords son he had no option other than Maester, or Lord and since he was the only son at the time when he would have been young enough to become a Maester, thus not have a claim, and Randyll views Maesters as little more than slaves he was forced to train for something he wasn't suited to do. Be a soldier, and rule by fear. Then he was punished when he didn't succeed. The whole system is crap. That's the point. Why are people defending it? Just because that's how it's done doesn't mean it's right. Randyll felt that way about Brienne from the start. There is no way all these men, officers and men from his own household guard included, were doing this without him knowing. He reacted because Dickon heard about it and said something. And he likely didn't want his son to see him not doing justice. So he stopped it before anything happened as he didn't want to risk being stuck having castrate his men and send them to wall, as he didn't view it as wrong in Briennes specific case. And that is the punishment Hale says he gives for rape. But he doesn't consider raping her to be rape because she chose to go to war instead of getting married and having kids. He thinks her being raped will teach her her place. I find it really interesting how people will rant about how Tyrion forced the prostitute he paid to have sex with him, but because it's a war zone see nothing wrong with this and are even defending it. War is brutal, but rape is rape even in war. Her saying that she know's how he punishes rapers doesn't mean he considers what would have happened to her to warrant that punishment. His own words say that he doesn't. As to the guy who said, why did you say this. Because I can agree with you on some points even if I disagree with other points. I don't need to be a jerk and argue over every sentence. But, if you can't grasp that I have zero desire to talk to you.
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