YeniAy_Ottoman

I wish Martin had been more specific about army numbers.

Hello, Selam! I wanted to discuss an idea that has been on my mind for a while. The topic is two-part. The First Part: Military Strength We do not know the full number of military might of kingdoms in Westeros. Although there are vague and semi-official statements about this, it is not easy to talk about exact numbers in general. We only know that Reach has around 100k soldiers(Frankly, this seems a bit exaggerated.). For this reason, the military power of other kingdoms has always been controversial. If there is one thing we can at least be sure of, it is that those who took part in the war must have been somewhat weakened militarily. The north is what I'm going to argue. (on the ASOIAF Wiki)According to semi-official sources, the north has 45k armies. The aforementioned source is; A Game of Thrones: d20-based Open Gaming RPG. The reliability of this source is of course questionable, but assuming at least 20,000 soldiers were destroyed, there are still at least 20-25 thousand soldiers in the north. Combined with the other advantages of geography, the north can easily defend and even win on its territory. It'll still need more soldiers if the northeren/Jon has to fight far away homeland. Or when the Others come, they'll need soldiers. Other than Wildings, where can the north find this soldier? This is where my idea comes into play. We have a prospective king who needs soldiers to fight for the throne; stannis. For this he had to borrow money from Braavos. We know that in one of the chapters in the 6th book published, Stannis sent one of his knights to Braavos. The knight's job is to take the gold and hire soldiers and buy ships for Stannis. Most importantly, Stannis said, Stannis is probably plotting his own fake death, one of the arguments used for the pink letter, but that's not the point. Stannis will indeed die at the end of the day. Yes, other readers have other ideas on this subject, but I am one of those who think that Stannis' role in book 6 is over. These 20,000 soldiers and ships won't be able to come to help Stannis in time. But still those ships and soldiers will come. That way, Jon will have at least 20,000 soldiers in preparation for war. These soldiers can even be used by Jon in the Battle of Winterfell, the final battle in the north. I actually found this somewhat ironic. It is highly likely that we owe it to Arya for Braavos' decision to support Stannis. Stannis plans to bring 20,000 troops north and orders those soldiers to be sent no matter what, even if word of his death is heard! Then when these soldiers arrive, it will benefit the north/Jon. So Arya appears to have done Stannis a favor on the surface—even though that was not her purpose—but she actually helped raise the military power her family would need in the future. My smart girl. The Second Part: The Origins of Sellswords Looking at the battle of Meereen, the masters seem to have gathered almost all the sellsword companies. Honestly I wonder how many companies there are in Essos, it seems quite a lot. Anyway. Another small detail about the soldiers Stannis wants is the choice of the reputable ones. So we don't expect the knight to assemble every company he finds at random and send them north. We don't know about every company in Essos, nor do we know the names of each, but we expect them to total 20,000 men. Two small details added in other books caught my attention, and I thought if it would be possible to see what is mentioned here in the main books. It is possible to talk about two companies belonging to the northerners. The book The World of Ice and Fire mentions a northern sellword unit called the Company of the Rose. I think there is no doubt that the rose mentioned here is the Winter Rose. It has different names as Winterfell Rose, Blue Rose, Snow Rose. Another is Wolf Pack. These are mentioned in both the World book and the Fire and Blood book. So far, we haven't read or seen any mention of these two companies. Of course, these may just be details added to enrich the universe, but it may not be. If Stannis wants sellswords and companies are to be hired for them, the existence of these two among the futures would not be an impossible thought. Will the children of the north finally return to their homes? I find the names of companies especially meaningful. In these books there are two characters represented by the blue rose; Lyanna and her son Jon Snow. In addition, the wolf pack is a perception and understanding of the Starks. In other words, the names of these two companies have a direct connection with Jon in particular and the Stark family in general. Thanks for read.

Bran ate Jojen. I don't think there is any reason to think that something like this happened because we don't see Jojen for a page or two and the boy is scared, but there are people who believe and say this for years.

Arya. Leaving aside Martin's statement about his wife, a few years ago someone whose name I forget said that Martin wanted to write a short novel about adult Arya. So Martin let it slip. Martin had said long ago that he wanted to write a short novel about Arya, but he had not said anything about her age. So it looks like the only character we're sure won't die is Arya Stark.

In the official phone application of ASOIAF, it was written that this woman was called "priestess", I watched it in a video years ago. I think the prisoner was an Andal prisoner. So this must be an image of the Andal period invasion. This Stark could be Theon the Hungry Wolf, the Andals were coming during his time. Blood sacrifice still existed in the north at that time. The fact that the sickle is bronze indicates the prevalence of bronze before steel at that time. The detail of the priestess is interesting because in the northern faith there is no clergy, there are forest witches. Maybe what the priestess means is that this woman is a forest witch.

Now I understand, it's true. There is an eastern and western market there and it is always active. As you said, we have not seen any information that any of these commercial routes were disrupted due to difficult winter/snow weather conditions.

@House Cambodia @SeanF Friends, I asked a very simple question. Is it snowing in the Dothark Sea? No. How can you claim that the coldness of a place where it does not snow is the same as the coldness of a region covered with snow almost every month of the year, or that it is similar to the difference between Ukraine and Russia? Also, Ukraine and Russia are in the same place in terms of geographically, I cannot understand how you accept this. Dany wandered the Dothraki sea for at least a year, have you ever seen her mention snow? They even passed south of Sarnor, and again she made no mention of the snow. She has seen many parts of Essos, have you ever seen her mention snow? If the Dothraki sea is almost as cold as the north, how can these people walk around with only a vest over their bare chests? Are you going to claim that they are used to this snow-cold and it doesn't affect them? So why have northerners been wearing furs for more than 5000 years, or Wildings? These are simple questions and the answers are very simple. I'm sorry, but the Dothraki are not used to the northern cold as you believe, they do not have a culture accustomed to living in a snowy environment. They are not from the north, there is no seasonal zone where there is snow etc. in parallel with them! The fact that the northernmost part of Sarnor is a city parallel to the North Sea and that this region is part of the Dothraki Sea does not indicate that the Dothraki lived there permanently and had a snow culture. I said that the people living in Saat city are not Dothraks anyway, and Dothraks do not live in cities. The southerners of Westeros are used to seeing snow, but even they have difficulty in the northern geography, they cannot move easily and are badly affected. They live in Essos, which it has a warm-temperate climate; You claim that people walking around with bare chests and vests can easily fight in the north. These are not realistic claims. The army Dany has is of no use to the north, they simply die. Even dragons cannot move freely in this region. Dorne and the North are a challenge to her, a war she cannot win, especially in the north. @Craving Peaches Sorry, I could not understand what you mean.

No, -40 degrees is valid for lands like Siberia. Today, we can talk about figures like -18-20 in Mongolia. Of course, there may be extreme situations(Some nights can be very cold...), for example, historical sources mention that it snows in summer sometimes... These are the reasons why Turks had problems due to famine, this is one of the reasons for our migration. More important thing is... It snows there, but it doesn't snow in the Dothraki sea. You cannot imagine that the Central Asian steppes are described in the books. For example, there are 3 seasonal zones in the Central Asian steppe; One of them is forested, the other is classically inefficient, the other is more productive. Is the Dothark sea like this? No. You shouldn't imagine it that way. Imagine a warmer climate. I think even -18 is too cold for the Dothraki sea because these people walk around with bare chests and a vest.

People can forget that Martin sometimes makes contradictory statements. Or that he chose to speak in a very roundabout way. For example, the statements he made after the show finale were truly confusing. The example he gave seemed to suggest that even if it wasn't the same finale, it would be very similar. I have argued for years that this finale will not be in the books, because when we examine the texts, there is no chance of progress in that direction... A friend of mine accused me of being Pollyanna, I was too optimistic for him. Three years later, Martin finally made it very clear that the show and book finales will be very different: some of the dead characters would live, some of the living characters would die, he said. So, I wasn't too optimistic, I was realistic because everything is clearly visible in the book, if you know how to see it. Back to our topic... There are multiple explanations about outline, but people stuck with the "I did a shit" explanation. In fact, you also read opposite statements in the same text. Nobody wants to see that part. So the "I made a shit" comment was not a very accurate statement. The author announced that he was moving towards the final, which he had been aiming for since the 90s. He said he knew the endings of the big five, Sansa and the great Lannisters, he knew who would sit on the iron throne, who would marry, who would die... he made it very clear that he was proceeding as planned from the very beginning. This is what I was trying to say to Kissing, her interpretation is not correct, such a situation is not the case in the outline. When we review the outline, we see very clearly that the storyline/arc continues to be processed exactly as written in the letter, but there are some changes in the plot. Tyrion was betrayed by his family in every way, Sansa married a Lannister in every way, etc. We cannot get stuck in the plot and think that the storyline/arc has changed. Although Martin accepted some changes, he said that he did not deviate from the story he had thought of from the beginning, but only expanded the story further. This love triangle can take place as Arya-Jon-Gendry.

The fact that a region of the Dothraki Sea borders the northern sea does not mean that they live and get used to that snowy and ice-filled cold. There is no information that that part is snowed anyway. Think of it like the Braavos example. The canals are cold enough to freeze, but there is no snow. I remember the Kingdom of Sarnor as being quite fertile despite its location. There was a large inland sea and fertile water resources. In this way, a great kingdom was established there. As they lost their water supply, they slowly began to weaken and gone. The Dothraki did the rest. Currently, almost all cities are in ruins, only the city of Saath continues to exist. The Dothraki do not live here or in the ruined cities. Most of these cities are already in the inner parts of the region. The Dothraki Sea may possibly resemble the Arabian deserts. Deserts are very hot during the day and cold at night, but... The coldness I'm talking about is not normal coldness. Have they ever experienced the Siberian cold? Have they ever lived in a snow-covered area? No. You forget that the perception of coldness is relative. To a northerner, the cold experienced by the Dothraki is probably something like springtime. I would like to give an example. I live in the south of Türkiye, Antalya is very hot and the humidity is extremely high during the summer months. In autumn and winter, the average temperature is 19-20 degrees. You have no chance of getting a tan(at least for us). The most beautiful periods of the city. On the other hand, there is a small city called Bayburt in the north of Türkiye. The average temperature in the summer is 19-20 degrees. My friend who lives there was complaining that her brother's arms were red from the sun, and that they were sweltering in the heat. What does this warmth mean to me? Nothing. So what happens if I invite this friend to Antalya in the summer? She could probably die from the heat (joke). The human body has the perception of cold and heat depending on the season of the region in which it lives. For this reason, you cannot equate the winter experience of a Dothraki with the winter experience of northerners.

Turks are people of steppe origin, you may know. I'm a Turk. Central Asia is a truly harsh and challenging geography. Even living in cold places like Siberia, and we hate extreme heat. In this way we are similar to the northerners of Westeros. However, the Central Asian steppes and the Dothraki steppes do not have the same seasonal characteristics. This is the point you are missing. The regions of Essos, except the northern part, are regions where warm climates prevail, places where snow and snow cold do not prevail... You can even understand this from their clothes. This region is deadly for these people who are not used to the cold and snow of the north.

If Dorne were to wage war against Dany, that's right... Like their ancestors, they would be a great trouble to Dany. Dorne could only be occupied for a very short period of two weeks, and that too at the cost of huge losses. The people of Dorne cannot be invaded by Dany as long as it defends its own home, because they are waging guerrilla warfare and the geography is too harsh. Reach, Vale, West-Crown Lands and River lands can be occupied, as long as there are dragons, the resources and number of armies of these kingdoms do not matter. The Rock is actually hard to get because it is carved into the mountain and it seems unlikely that it will be burned by a dragon, but I think they will get it with help Tyrion's hand, Meereen style. The thing that will challenge Dany the most after Dorne is the North. Dorne and the North have harsh geography and are seasonally opposites. You can see Yin-Yang here, a very nice detail. Jon is the son of ice and fire... He was born in the hottest part of Westeros and raised in the coldest part. Anyway. The North has never been invaded in its history either, it has been tried but failed, not even the Andals could succeed. The Kneeling Stark King could probably have forced Aegon out if he had decided to fight on his own land instead of fighting on the riverlands. Although I don't remember now, was it winter then? The hardest part for Dany's dragon and her soldiers is the cold and snowy north. It's especially worse now that winter is here. Even the southerners of Westeros cannot move as fast as the northerners there, they are not used to it. Cold, snow, etc. are kryptonite for dragons. They even seem difficult to fly, especially when snowstorms begin. The situation is worse for the eunuchs and Dothraki, these people have never seen snow or cold. They cannot fight there, they freeze to death, their horses die. Of course, if they can get to land, this will happen to them, I don't think they can get in from land easly. Manderly's building of naval power will also make the north's job easier; there will probably be a war at sea before they can move to land. In the past, I remember, the Andals managed to land, but were killed on the shore. In short, Dorne and the North will not surrender to Dany and these lands will turn into a swamp for her, like Iraq and Afghanistan.

I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding. I pointed out there that JonArya theorized after the letter, but as I mentioned at the beginning of the video, even though the theorization was after the letter, the idea actually goes back to 1999. I would like to draw attention to the last part of the passage. "In this video we discuss the signs of JonArya.” Signs for a few sample in the books: Many in-text parts, such as the sentence marrying the king, or the blush the face, or the question "What do you know about my heart?" Of course, there are some parts in the second part of the video that are not directly within the text, in terms of story mathematics/irony, but our main arguments are the signs within the text. Actually, I said that I gave a link about the outline. I guess it wasn't very clear from the beginning. I wrote the sentence you quoted for your first comments about Outline. Then I gave a link about outline analysis.

No, these are your comments/speculations on the outline. However, I am talking about arguments based on the story written in books. We can also discuss about the outline, no problem, but this is a separate thread and I gave a link.

First of all, I'm wondering, you may believe that this theory will not come true, you may even dislike the idea... there can never be a problem with that. But in a forum meant for discussing theories/arguments etc., why, instead of discussing the arguments, do you directly draw a line in the sand like "I don't like it, the outline has been abandoned..." which closes the discussion in the first place? I have seen Jonerys and even sometimes Jonsa being discussed very easily in the forums with arguments, but when JonArya comes up, it is always the same meaningless reactions, you are very tiring in this way. One gets tired of going through the same thing for years. Be reasonable and argue against arguments with counter arguments, please. The video is there, you can listen to it with the subtitles on and write your own counter-arguments here. Please don't reject something before you listen the need to do so, reject it after you have done so. Thank you. I also have a detailed analysis of the outline, you can read it if you have time. There is never, ever a situation like the one you mentioned.

Video Theory - with Eng sub - JonArya "Son of the Dragon and Daughter of the North" Greetings! With the revelation of the outline letter, it was revealed that Martin had envisioned a romance between Jon and Arya. Since then, it has been debated for years whether this idea continues. In this video we discuss the signs of JonArya.

Hello, I noticed something about AA and his sword story (4 yeras ago). You all know the story of AA's sword. Legends are half true half story. They are also generally open to symbolic interpretation. I want to do this today. Lightbringer is called a weapon and sword, both in the first and expected in the second AA. Of course, since we were looking for a real sword, the interpretations went over this and we expected a story of Nissa and sword making. There are many predictions about who AA might be, and the biggest candidate (who seems to meet the requirements) is Dany. The problem was that Dany is not a warrior, she does not carry a sword and does not know how to use it even if she does. This part did not fit at all. Also, if she has such a special sword, who should she fight and kill? Whom did the first AA fight and killed whom? The Others never died, and they always existed. We know that they wander around from time to time, even after the Long Night. (Night's King's queen) According to the Essos story, it is the first AA to end the Long Night, but AA does not even have a name in the Westeros story. First Men defeated the Others. It is obvious that there is something strange in these stories. In summary, whatever happened in the past, nobody has been successful. It was not fully successful. Winter is coming... There is no "dragon" in the AA legend, there is only in the prophecy, which is also very interesting in itself. Why? When we look at the legend of the first AA, nothing that mention about the dragon is visible, but for some reason, the prophecy is mentioned it. The prophecy emerges that "AA will to wake dragons out of stone". What kind of "common" point exists between the first AA and the second AA, which is about dragons, there is something about"stone dragon wake"? There is nothing in common in sight. Is it? What if LB was a dragon from the very beginning? What if the first AA's sword story is actually the story of hatching the dragon eggs? You know that there is a sword and dragon metaphor in the books. The first quote; "comet; looks like red sword, still red-hot from the forge. ” The second quote is "Dragons are coming ..." The third quote; "Your dragons are a flaming sword above the world ..." Very clear, i guess... still red-hot from the forge... Dany warmed her eggs in the stove, but it did not work, then three dragons were born (with fire and blood magic) under the red omen that looked like a red sword, which was considered a dragon sign. Drogo was a king, her son was carrying king blood and Mirri(before them a king and king blood, Viserys has dead). Let's look first AA. Is it possible to destroy the creatures of the Long Night with a single sword? No. A dragon? Oh, it's definitely more useful. If we interpret symbolically… Now, like Dany, he may have tried to hatch eggs in a temple with a sacred fire… Maybe we can accept this as an attempt to use fire magic directly? However, when it does not work in this way, he may have understood that he should use another additional force beside the fire. I'll will be a bit of a push, I agree, but it may have used "water" magic (Nymeria's people use magic of water). Using fire + water magic… but it cannot be successful, for obvious reasons. Later, he may have thought that this work would be more effective not with the magic of water, but with the magic of "blood," and he used the blood of a lion, but when it didn't work, he decided that a stronger blood would be needed ... like king blood ... we don't know who Nissa's family is, but a real lion or someone symbolized by the lion (Bloodstone's wife was a tiger-woman. In this case, there might also be a lion-woman / man) doesn't work.. We can imagine that she has king blood, Nissa; her blood has to be special so that the magic works. There is a fire + blood spell and eventually the egg hatchs and the dragon is born. In this way, we can explain what the belief of “there is power in the blood of the king…” and also learns the beginning of the “fire-blood spells”; We also learn why the spells in the east are (generally) on fire + blood (which Valyria is at the top of this. I believe that the people who founders here come from Dawn, you know, there is a possibility that there may be someone from the blood of AA-BloodStone.). AA has accomplished the sword issue in half a year. If the long night is true, it took a generation or something. More than enough time for the dragon to wait for it to grow. Educating him, trying to control etc. One possibility is that they have forged the first dragon steels with this dragon, or are being forged before. According to Aemon's book, the sword is a red sword that radiates heat when not in use, but it burns when it is used. I don't know how a flaming sword used it without hurting… Does AA have immunity to fire? I think he is the ancestor of Targ. https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/euovm0/danys_dream_fire_and_blood_spoiler_main/ This description actually reminded me of a dragon. The redness of the sword is probably a sign of the dragon's color, all of which are in different colors, even the flames in different colors. There is red dragons, you know(like Meleys). What do you think? Was the story we read about the sword actually an attempt to hatch the dragon egg?

Hi, Selam! After Jorah Mormont's Endgame , I wanted to discuss Brienne's Endgame. Actually, I watched Elio and Linda's GoT Endgame video almost a year ago, this reason i asked some characters' endgame to myself. I thought about Jon, Arya, Dany and others but not characters like Brienne and Jorah. Yes, i had some ideas about roles like Jorah but i did not think their ends. Whatever. Today let's talk Brienne. In the Show, Brienne is knighted and her story as the Kingsguard is over. If I'm not mistaken, Elio and Linda doubt that Brienne will have the same ending, but the possibility of being knighted isn't fundamentally impossible because there's no law against women being knighted (though traditions differ). Being the Kingsguard is still thought-provoking because Westeros is not a romantic place, and they find it dubious to expect them to suddenly accept such a change. (I may not have understood the conversations correctly because my English is not perfect. People who have watched it before can correct me if I am wrong.) But is it really doubtful that she has the same or similar ending? So of course Martin may think differently and may not even have decided yet, but is it impossible for the books to have the same ending? Or even if there is a possibility, is that possibility far away? Not for me. Why? Parallelism Elio and Linda, like many asoiaf readers, consider Brienne a descendant of Dunk. It is obvious that a similar ending would create parallelism between the two. Maybe D&D believed in the same theory and therefore wanted to create the same parallelism. As grandfather and grandchild, they are both quite tall. Although they both wanted to be knights, they didn't actually start their story as knights (Dunk lies that he was). Dunk is tasked with training the future king, Prince Aegon "Egg", and later as his Kingsguard, protecting his king. Chances are, Dunk may have actually been knighted at some point in his life. I'm assuming he will want to clear this roughness before he becomes KG, because he is sensitive and honorable about it, I believe he doesn't want to taint KG. Anyway. Since we know that Martin likes to write parallel stories/characters (probably because this is more meaningful among blood relatives), Brienne could have a fate like her grandfather. In fact, we may have read the trailer of it. Character introduction as possible foreshadowing We first met Brienne in Cat's POV. When we first met Brienne, we read of her as someone who fought for Renly and joined his Rainbow Guard. They were also referred to as the Rainbow Knights, but our maiden was not a knight, moreover, this fraternity was also formed to be equivalent to the Kingsguard. So basically Brienne joined a throne pretender's (Renly's) kingsguards, even though it was already considered an unofficial formation, and protected the king for a short time, even without being a knight. Of course, those around Renly didn't like it, but in the end, they didn't raise flag of rebellion for it either. As you can see, we've already read Brienne as an unofficial knight and kingsguard, this is the first time we've known her that way. Loras was similarly Renly's KG, and then he really became KG. That's why Brienne can also be the guardian of the king/queen of the Iron Throne at the end of the story. Are there any open-minded characters for this in Westeros? Jon, Arya and Dany are the three main characters who are open-minded and will not mind Brienne's gender. NOTE: Of course, I didn't try to tell Arya will sit on the Iron Throne and become Queen of Westeros, but given the influence Arya had on Jon , she's a strong influence character that could have had a big influence on Jon's decision, so I included her. This is true even in a normal relationship, but if the JonArya theory is true, it could be more effective. Arya might even want to set herself up with queen's guards. Even by himself, Jon actually broke this rule. Only men are allowed into the NW, but already one castle is all-female. You know that Jon has unofficially recruited the Wildings into the Night's Watch, and that includes the women. If we consider Jon to be the descendant of Aegon, the parallelism of two grandfathers and two grandchildren arises (same goes for Dany's equation). Arya and Jon are rule breakers. Dany isn't the type to turn anyone down because of her gender anyway, especially as she's an aspirant to sit on the Iron Throne for the first time as a woman. Thank you for reading.

I'm not just talking about betrayals, anything prophetic has to be for the future because the nature/definition of prophecy is already about "the future". If it talks about the past, it is not called prophecy, it is called history. Think of it this way; what is the point of writing something that is already known to the reader as prophecy a book later? There is no point. Writing technique; if there is a detail/text that has no positive/negative impact on the story when you remove it, then you don't need it.

Forum? As you may notice I signed up here years ago but I can't claim to spend much time here, I'm more on reddit. ASOIAF? I have been reading, reviewing and theorizing books for many years, I also started a youtube channel a few years ago. So no, I am not new. I am aware that there is no such thing as Tully madness like Targ in the books, I actually identified and developed this idea myself years ago, independently of this place. Seems someone else noticed it and brought it up for discussion. This has nothing to do with Stark hatred. The Tully family are not Starks and I am a Stark fan. You may have had some experiences in the past, I have too... but in the end it would be healthier to try not to generalize them to everything. To repeat myself, what I call Tully madness is not a Targ-like prevalence; it's a fate that the author prefers to portray the last generation of Tully women in the text rather than a family transmission. The example of Lysa and Cat leads us to this inference, and from Sansa's strange memory mistakes etc. starting with Mycah in the first book, to GRRM's explanations... it leads us to infer that she may have touched it. It may not be true, after all we are here to discuss ideas, but please don't accuse people with so-called arguments like "you think this because you hate this family and person" or "because you love them". This is a wrong way of reasoning. It also kills all the fun of the discussion.

Selam, Hi! I would like to discuss Jorah's endgame in the books and the influence of his father's will on it. Two theories will be mentioned here; Jorah joining the wall or (to me) he will die in the end of books(but how?). Let's start. After End of Game Of Thrones, David Hill announced to Jorah's original end. Elio and Linda were of the opinion that Jorah's end in the books would be same(the wall thing). Of course, we don't know if the possible endgame in the show was within Martin's plan, apparently Martin didn't say anything about Jorah, but the writers may have predicted such an ending based on the books, or wanted to use it because it is a fan-loved theory (fan service). As a result, we don't know for sure whether Jorah will end up at the wall or he will die in the books. It is natural that they could not find a way to implement the wall scenario they desired, since no conflict was committed in the show that would send Jorah and Dany to separate paths, and the infrastructure for this was never established. So as a theme, Jorah's separation from Dany was probably intended to be used as one of the cornerstones for Dany to become lonely and crazy, but when they couldn't figure out how to do it, they said let's kill him, let Dany suffer like this and get lonely. I'm pretty sure Jorah will be used for that purpose in the book actually. Jorah's The Wall Theory Correct me if I'm wrong, but really the dominant theory is that Jorah will go to the wall and spend the rest of his life there, right? The argument used to support this is obvious; The will that Jeor told Sam. Logically, not everything will happen the characters want to do or what they said, we can look this that way, but it doesn't feel that way to me, so this Jeor's last words will have an impact in the future of the series, the last word/will is a serious thing. So yes, Jorah's endgame could be the wall, Night's Watch. I would never completely rule out this possibility. After his betraying Dany(yes, i believe he will), he may choose to go to the wall, under the influence of his father's will. On The Show - reluctantly - Jon chose this path. Of course, his father's will can have an impact on Jorah's heart, as things like Jorah's longing for "home" are covered in the books. But frankly, I don't think there will be such a thing as a wall at the end of the story. In the show, they somehow made a hole in the wall with a dead dragon, spewing fire, but in the book, this obstacle will probably be overcome with the winter horn, and in such a case, I think it is unthinkable that the wall will remain standing. If the others die at the end of the series, the purpose of the night watch's existence is already lost, and the wildlings have already joined the realm. Are the others completely will be destroys? I doubt it, then would the Watch survive without the wall? It is possible, but if the war does not end in the form of a peace treaty, what happened 5,000 years ago is repeated and they are only temporarily removed. Well, we're back to the beginning, what did I understand in this case? We must put an end to the war between ice and fire completely so that the seasons can improve. Therefore, at the end of the story, I think it is healthy to continue with a scenario presupposition that the others are no longer a threat and that we do not need the Wall and the Watch. So What Is Jorah's Possible Endgame For Me? A few years ago I theorized about Jorah's 2nd betrayal of Dany. According to here; Jorah will betray Dany over time - for the reasons I mentioned in the thread - and will be part of the triple betrayal in the vision. The general reason for this is Dany's choice of the dark path and possibly Dany's counterattack to the north, threatening Jorah's family/house(Please read the thread for possible signs and story background). HOME is still seen as one of the main motivations for Jorah for me. However, I realized that I left the story background missing. His father's will is likely to be more effective than I thought. Realistically, Jorah spied on for a pardon, but did he really believe that when he returned home, his family and the north would welcome him? They will never accept him, until he deserves it. Although the will is generally used for the wall theory, as I said, I do not think that the wall will continue to exist. However, I believe the will will have an impact on the story, but how? Because in the will, Jeor wanted his son to join the Watch. Actually, I think the part that is overlooked here is Jeor's intention. By selling poachers into slavery, Jorah brought great disgrace to the north and his family. The people of Westeros care about honor and are very proud, but I think northerners are a little bit more about it. A deceased father will naturally think of the love he has for his son and the shame on his family, so as his death wish he wishes his son to clean this shame. For Jeor, the only way he knows to do it is to "join the Watch." But it's not the only way. Jorah betrayed the north and his house; abandoned them. When he comes to Westeros with Dany, he will continue to choose Dany over his family. Probably the Mormonts will be very angry about this. But at some point, after learning of his father's will and under the influence of Dany's bad transformation and other things, he will torn between his family and Dany... you know, Martin likes to write stories where the heart breaks in two. Presumably at the end of the day, Jorah will decide to take a stand against Dany and of course the Others, by granting his father's wish and siding with the north/family to cleanse his own embarrassment. Jorah will die fighting for his people and family (possibly against the others). You have read that an arc is committed in the story on the way to cleanse the past sins of the characters. Jaime, Theon... Martin wants the characters to face the consequences of what they've done in the past, and to fall into the same situation and pay the price. It's no different for Jorah. In the final book, Jorah is enslaved, branded as an animal, and beaten. An ironic fate for a man who once sold slaves. This was only the first phase, when he comes to Westeros he will face his real test. I hope I didn't write it too confusing. Thank you for reading.

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Many characters in the book, including Arya, are actually traumatized, and Arya's first trauma starts with Mycah. But not everyone who is traumatized will turn into Lysa and Cat. There is no doubt that every child takes something from their parents. There's nothing more natural than that, but it's clear that Sansa is more like her mother. I'm not going to claim that Arya is more like her father, yes, she took something from him, but she doesn't resemble him much in terms of personality, it's not for nothing that she's compared to her aunt Lyanna. It might be more accurate to say that Arya is more like her Stark ancestors... but it's obvious to me that Sansa is starting to have "psychological" problems, I haven't seen any signs of Arya's Tully madness, her situation is similar to the stories of traumatized child soldiers (Martin said something like that). In today's parlance, she suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder. The situation for Sansa is a bit complicated, in addition to PTSD, her false memories and the fact that she started to remember the lies she told as truth, and GRRM's implicit insinuation that her false memory is "what does it mean for her psychology?" indicate that she is facing a problem similar to the problem of the Tully women. Of course, I don't think she will be subjected to a madness in the form of her aunt and mother, I think she will have more of an identity crisis and start to integrate with Aleyna.

Hello, Selam! I realized something when I was thinking about the Dance of Dragons 2. It is not wrong to expect some similarities between the first war and the second war. So we can expect some characters to resemble the roles of other characters. In this topic, I will tell you which (in the first Dance) character will coincide with Jorah in the second Dance. Of course I can't claim that it is 100%. Let's start. Introduction That was Dany's first encounter with Jorah. He then stood close to the girl and sent everything that had happened to Varys in exchange for a pardon. Over time, Jorah continued to report to Varys, even in the city of Qarth, although he tried to protect her because he loved her. He had stopped after that, but it was a painful betrayal for Dany. She banished Jorah and decided that he was one of the three betrayals (love) she was supposed to see at the house of the Undying. You decide if Jorah's betrayal is one of love, gold, or blood betrayal, but I will approach it in a different way. The prophecy foretells the future, does not tell the past. It is important that this action began to take place before the warnings, even though Dany had heard after about the spying activities of Jorah. So, just as we cannot accept Mirri's action as being carried out in three betrayals, we cannot accept Jorah's betrayal either. Mirri's and Jorah's actions took place in parallel with each other, and Dany became aware of one's action long after the other's action, that's all. We cannot see it as a betrayal of love. Do not forget that the Immortals said what will happens, not the ones that what happened. So it is necessary to look at what is in the future, not the past. Jorah being a spy is not one of those betrayals, but Jorah will still commit a betrayal. A betrayal from him may indeed be a betrayal of “love.. We usually expected to see a betrayal from the person Dany would fall in love with, or that is still could be true; This betrayal may come from someone she is in love with (Daario) or someone who loves her. When Jorah said, "I love you," Dany thought it was "love betrayal." As a matter of fact, the possibility of betrayal not only that Dany is in love with someone, also someone who is in love with her should be taken into consideration. Let's leave this part for now and step by step. Jorah, is he capable of betraying Dany? After reading Jorah's hopes of returning to Dany after falling in love and after exile, we assumed that this man would stay with her until the end. Because it displayed an image of unshakable loyalty. Of course I still think so, but when I read the book Fire and Blood, I noticed a serious threat along with what I noticed. Well, I questioned him. Therefore, I think that the probability of betrayal is almost close to each other if it remains true to the end. At least for me - for now - 50% / 50% A move from the most unexpected person already matches the GRRM's style of writing. Remember that Jorah kept spying on her when she was in love. Knowing this is a betrayal. Why? For home. Jorah is someone who can betray Dany for "home". We saw this. He already did that. In the future, Jorah's heart can be split into two for both home and Dany. Why do I think Jorah can betray? Green Jinx We know green color is a sign of bad luck(and enemy or something like that) for Dany. In the first dance, the two sides were divided as black and greens. The second dance could be the same. (Black Drogon and Green Rhaegal) The floor of Xaro's private apartment was made of green marble, which wanted one of Dany's dragons, and moreover, he clearly showed hostility. Kraznys's dress was green. Cleon send her green slipper. After what happened in Qarth, they sent an insect to assassinate Dany; There was a green stone in the box and the insect was green. They wanted to poison her with locus in Meereen. (Locus are usually green.) Galazza Galare , Green Grace(I believe she is Hyperia, also she has green eyes and wears green dress). Rhaegal dragon in green color. He killed Quentyn and possibly brought the end of the Dorne alliance (Quhuru Mo seem to have no a bad influence for now despite wearing a green cloak, but looking at the last two books we should comment. He appeared twice; I say we will see more). Now let's come to another character that is described with green color; Jorah Mormont. His family sigil is a black bear on top of green background. He walks around in a green cloak or clothes that has family colors. That's why it's quite possible for him to bring a jinx to Dany (Of course he did something bad to Dany in the first place. But we expect much greater betrayal. Something so important that Undying have to warn Dany). 2. Warning of the Undying The Undying Ones said Dany would see betrayals . They warned her because these betrayals will be as have been too heavy, too jarring, touchstone in the future. Otherwise, minor betrayals will only annoy you. but great betrays means great losses. The betrayals of highly trusted people will undoubtedly be overwhelming. When she found out that Jorah was a spy, Dany was hurt and of course left a mark on her. However, his appearance as a spy was not a devastating betrayal of Dany's life. Otherwise, Dany wouldn't be willing to forgive him. If Jorah had spoken more humbly, Dany would have wanted to forgive him, but he didn't do it, and only made her more angry. "No . . . no." He shook his head. "I never meant . . . forgive me. You have to forgive me." "Have to?" It was too late. He should have begun by begging forgiveness. She could not pardon him as she'd intended. If Jorah makes a betrayal in the future. More than a simple spyin thing betrayal ... This is something that Dany will never forgive, and moreover, that brings great destruction to her. Because the most destructive betrayal, the most unexpected; is the closest one. Jorah suits such betrayal. 3. Dance Of Dragons 1th. - Criston Cole Here's the real reason for me to believe that Jorah will change his sides... Criston Cole. In the first place Cole was on the side of the blacks party. I believe the rumor that he is in love with the princess is true. Nobody has any doubts about that, I guess? Whatever happened between them, Cole became hostile to the princess. Cole switched his sides and passed to the greens party. In fact, there were signs. Let's look his physical appearance. I think his black hair is some sort of FS that would be on his first Rae(blacks) side and his green eyes on his greens. Colors are important in Dance. So, What about Jorah Mormont? We know Lynesse look like Dany. Jorah and his wife did not have a happy marriage, and she betrayed him. Since then, Jorah hates as much as he loves his wife. Like Cole. Guess it looks like Jorah's love for Dany comes from his love to his own wife. Things like Jorah and Cole falling in love with the Targaryen girls and being rejected, both being champions in a tournament, have been similar to now. In addition, Jorah was Dany's sworn shield at first, and then the first of the queen guards, even the Lord Commander(when he was first-and only- queensguard, it made him also lord commander, i guess), like Cole. Dany had named him the first of her Queensguard . . . and when Mormont's gruff counsel and the omens agreed, her course was clear. Cole's eye and hair color was a sign that he would be on both sides. Remember, Jorah's family sigil is a black bear on top of green background and he wears green clothes. (The Asoiaf wiki says he has a black beard, but I've never seen it write in books.) So, Jorah will be side the first blacks in this battle. He's in love with Dany and wants to stand by her. But then something will happen, and Jorah will be hostile to Dany and will be side the greens. Causes of Betrayal Many scenarios can be produced for this. Like Cole, Dany didn't answer Jorah's love, but I don't give that much chance because I think he already knows Dany never lover him like that, he is not stupid. Even though he was exiled, he still strives to be with her. The possibility in my mind is "home" and "family". Jorah has a home wound as much as a love wound. He told her this much. Even Dany wondered. We know Dany will be corrupt by power. We also know that her actions will be a bit extreme (at least there are many readers waiting for this). Dany's revenge list also includes the north. I believe she could turn into a Maegor-Viserys mix. I believe it is a FS. Dany became Aegon the Conqueror, she was Aegon the Conqueror with teats. Later she will became Maegor the Cruel with teats. Rae was even called by that name when she took KL. So, her actions may become unacceptable to Jorah after some point. Especially if Dany starts posing a threat to his family ...his home... Jorah can change sides for this reason. After all, everyone has a limit. Even if Jorah is in love with her, he's not going to trade his family's life and home for her. I hate to refer to the show as a reference, but for example ... Jon was in love with her but he killed her anyway because to save his family and home. Why shouldn't Jorah change sides? In short, the “love” of the three betrayals seems to be very suitable for Jorah. What do you say? Thank you for read and sorry my bad English.

I wrote about it years ago (not here, but in my country's asoiaf forum). The last generation of Tully women are like iron like Stannis (Jon already used the iron analogy for Cat); they break before they bend. The traumas they've been through are hard psychologically destroying them. However, among Cat's children, I saw only Sansa in this danger, because she resembles Cat not only in appearance but also in behavior and temperament. For years it has been commented that Sansa is more like her mother's side than her father's. Sansa's psychology is also not in a good state, and GRRM has made a statement in the past pointing out her psychology.