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S. D

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  1. Again, all your points have convinced me we are at diametrically opposed worldviews. I see no use in prolonging the conversation. Ciao.
  2. I don't know why the author would bring up how young she is if he doesn't want us to make a judgement on it. And how do you know if she didn't have complications after? Rhaella had children at 13-14, but after that she had numerous miscarriages.
  3. 16 is the age of adulthood, and Ned calls her a child. No such thing as a 'teenager.'
  4. 1) Again, Cersei has no reason to lie about Robert raping her. If she was lying, her scene with Taena serves no purpose. You bringing up other instances where she is unreliable does not change anything. 2) We clearly have different ideas of abuse. Which means this part of the argument is at an impasse. Take this as a concession if you want. Yeah good example. A prostitute so young Ned didn't dare to ask her age. It's pretty simple. Robert is not violent with her because she's young and naive and awestruck by him. Unlike Cersei who disliked Robert from the time be called out Lyanna's name in bed.
  5. I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about him losing the joust to Rhaegar willingly.
  6. Cersei has no reason to be unreliable in this scene. I'll quote another person in the thread you showed me here: And yeah we have Renly saying Robert would take lord's daughters to his bed because he took the lord telling him "What is mine is yours" literally in the quote Hugorfonics brought up. We have an example of Robert taking a woman to his bed while drunk, a situation which very likely was not consensual. And I don't mean she said no but she didn't actually want to sleep with him but went along with it because he was the king. Just like Cersei.
  7. It's not a dodge, you saying he only groped her is. "Truth be told, I can scarcely bear for him to touch me, and I have not let him inside me for years. I know other ways to pleasure him, when he leaves his whores long enough to stagger up to my bedchamber. Whatever we do, the king is usually so drunk that he's forgotten it all by the next morning." ...the way Robert would use her when the drink was in him, and she was unable to bring him off with hand or mouth. Those had been the worst nights, lying helpless underneath him as he took his pleasure, stinking of wine and grunting like a boar. Usually he rolled off and went to sleep as soon as it was done, and was snoring before his seed could dry upon her thighs. She was always sore afterward, raw between the legs, her breasts painful from the mauling he would give them. The only time he’d ever made her wet was on their wedding night. Robert had been handsome enough when they first married, tall and strong and powerful, but his hair was black and heavy, thick on his chest and coarse around his sex. The wrong man came back from the Trident, the queen would sometimes think as he was plowing her. In the first few years, when he mounted her more often, she would close her eyes and pretend that he was Rhaegar. She could not pretend that he was Jaime; he was too different, too unfamiliar. Even the smell of him was wrong. For Robert, those nights never happened. Come morning he remembered nothing, or so he would have had her believe. Once, during the first year of their marriage, Cersei had voiced her displeasure the next day. “You hurt me,” she complained. He had the grace to look ashamed. “It was not me, my lady,” he said in a sulky sullen tone, like a child caught stealing apple cakes from the kitchen. “It was the wine. I drink too much wine.” To wash down his admission, he reached for his horn of ale. As he raised it to his mouth, she smashed her own horn in his face, so hard she chipped a tooth. Years later at a feast, she heard him telling a serving wench how he’d cracked the tooth in a mêlée. Well, our marriage was a mêlée, she reflected, so he did not lie. The rest had all been lies, though. He did remember what he did to her at night, she was convinced of that. She could see it in his eyes. He only pretended to forget; it was easier to do that than to face his shame. Deep down Robert Baratheon was a coward.
  8. But why would Barristan have such a high opinion of Rhaegar if he knew he was a cheater?
  9. 1) Rhaella had bite marks and scratches all over her body. Cersei was also being hurt, but she was only sore. 2) She said to Ned while she was putting up an appearance of strength. Could be it was more than that, considering how casually he hits her in front of Ned. It definitely matches up to his character. Like you said he shoved Jaime aside for standing up to him. He threw his helm at Barristan and told him to get put of his sight. He hit Joffrey when he was a child, so hard Stannis thought he killed him. He yelled at his squires. He yelled at Ned and told him to get out of his sight. As for a pattern...we do know he got drunk and had sex with a Florent on Stannis' wedding bed. I doubt she would be into that considering she was still maiden and the shame associated with such an act. Not saying he raped her but he just took her and she acquiesced because he was the king.
  10. I am being reasonable. Again, Cersei didn't scream or yell. Might be cause she's a very proud woman being a Lannister and all, might be cause she didn't want Jaime to kill Robert, the same reason why she hid her bruises from him.
  11. Aerys cause he was also biting and scratching Rhaella. EDIT: Not cool adding points after I've already answered. 2) You need to re-read it. They were well aware of Ramsay raping Lady Hornwood and later raping Jeyne/Arya. I don't think they actually called it rape tho, and even then it was because Ramsay kidnapped Lady Hornwood and made her swear her vows at sword point, as for fake Arya they can hear her sobbing all day along. 3) He said that she was “hungry for him”. Rape is a touchy subject, but I don’t think that makes him a rapist. Jaime was sexually aggressive, but that seems to be part of the reason that a Cersei was attracted to him. This isn’t like Ramsay, Gregor or even Roose Bolton, where it’s very clear that they were raping women. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/game-of-thrones/10779097/George-RR-Martin-I-never-discussed-the-rape-scene-with-Game-of-Thrones-producers.html GRRM was only talking about the Sept scene in that quote. Can't use it to cover all the other times. Here's another questionable passage: He wanted to rip her gown off and turn her blows to kisses. He'd done it before, back when he had two good hands. - Jaime's thoughts, A Feast for Crows, Jaime III
  12. 1) K. 2) They heard him raping her because Rhaella screamed that he was hurting her. 3) Probably that he's hurting her in ways not exclusive to rape. 4) Didn't he only say that about the Sept scene? "Let Robert do as he pleases. I'll go to war with him if I must. The War for Cersei's Cunt, the singers will call it." "Jaime, let go of me!" she raged, struggling to rise. Instead he had kissed her. For a moment she resisted, but then her mouth opened under his. Here's a scene where Cersei is violently resisting but Jaime forces himself on her anyway.
  13. Fine, other people have held the same opinion. It was still you though. As for why they didnt mention it, there might be a few reasons: 1) They simply didn't hear it because Cersei didn't scream or yell. They're not actually in the room with Robert. 2) They don't think marital rape is a crime. 3) As some other poster on the forums mentioned, Jaime himself acts pretty rapey towards Cersei. Cersei mentions that Jaime wouldn't take no for an answer when it came to sex to Taena.
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