Jump to content


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Lluewhyn

  1. Lluewhyn

    George Martin and idea of kingship

    Martin is saying that the purpose of a good King/Queen is to protect and serve their people. Anything else, and there is no easy answer or guarantee of success, no way for a potential ruler to point to the example of a previously successful monarch, emulate them, and still expect to get the same results. There are too many different dynamics each time, and understanding and making the right decisions will always be hard.
  2. Lluewhyn

    "characters who are perfectly nice"

    It's looking like virtually ALL of the main characters will be reasonably dark by the end of TWOW. Arya is obvious, Sansa will have negligently contributed to the death of a small child, Bran is mind-raping a loyal servant (possibly to the point of his death), Jon will probably come back from the dead with a lot less sympathy for many people's issues, Daenerys is embracing "Fire and Blood", Tyrion is on a streak of vengeance, etc. It remains to be seen how many will turn back towards the light in ADOS. I think Catelyn does get some hate (beyond the Jon issue) because she seems to be set up to be the go-to character for GRRM to kick-start the plot in certain points. She's one of the smartest Starks who always seems to have faulty information and trusts the wrong people, to her misfortune. And her misfortune seems to drive her plotline, because if you view LSH as a destination point for her character arc, then a requirement is for her to feel helpless rage and anguish due to failure after failure and loss after loss due to writer fiat.
  3. Yep. We have seen the feudal nature of Westeros leads to inevitable conflict, and it's stated multiple times that lords have to constantly reinforce their positions of strength to keep unruly bannermen in line. The Targaryens tended to fall into hubris assuming they were in charge because manifest destiny or something, not remembering that they were in power to begin with only because they had dragons. Add in the fact that the Targaryens were known for a lot of internal family civil wars (Maegor, Dance of the Dragons, Blackfyres), and it's no surprise that inevitably vassals are going to ask "Why are these guys in charge again?".
  4. Lluewhyn

    Sansa's betrayal consequences partly overestimated?

    This might be getting into Death of the Author a little bit, but I definitely think that it was GRRM's intention that Sansa was complicit in Ned's death, which is why he wrote that she went to Cersei in the first place, and why Cersei flat-out tells Tyrion "Yep, couldn't have stopped Ned Stark without his daughter's bungling". So, perhaps the details about whether it logistically made a difference might matter, or it might not. Wouldn't be the first time that GRRM's intention in a story event didn't match the reader's understanding of the matter from what was on the page.
  5. Lluewhyn

    Sansa's betrayal consequences partly overestimated?

    Pate, Chett, and Varamyr are all POVs that seem to be pretty selfish, petty, bratty, and entitled.
  6. Lluewhyn

    Sansa's betrayal consequences partly overestimated?

    I believe Sweetsunray was specifically discussing Sansa's lack of empathy in AGOT, and says she gets better after she has her moment of truth realization.
  7. Lluewhyn

    Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

    Something I noticed on a thematic level, is why Martin chose to have Brienne disfigured by Biter (part of her cheek eaten off, to evoke visceral horror). It's fairly well-known that Brienne defending the orphans at the inn is her response to the moral dilemma posed earlier about the knight at Saltpans who stays holed up in his keep instead of defending his smallfolk (similar to the dilemma that Will faces in the AGOT Prologue). Should someone sworn to service carry out that service if it's only likely to result in their death? What could he have done, one man against so many?" He could have tried, Brienne thought. He could have died. Old or young, a true knight is sworn to protect those who are weaker than himself, or die in the attempt. She then later elects to defend the orphans at the Inn against the remnants of the Bloody Mummers, knowing that she most likely can't defeat seven of them and could just slip away. So, if the story is saying that she is doing the right thing regardless of the consequences, there has to be a consequence. Otherwise, it cheapens her effort to have the story save her from this moral dilemma.
  8. The obvious one you're probably thinking of is the Unkiss. I would argue that the she's somewhat suppressing Petyr's nature and the meaning of Lysa's confession, because fully acknowledging it means that she acknowledges what kind of monster she's reliant upon for her own survival. Presumably, she will eventually address this issue and manage to turn the tables on Littlefinger.
  9. I agree with this somewhat, but I think that this was a writing issue that Martin didn't fully contemplate the consequences of this action. Even Joffrey bullying Micah could be explained away by Sansa's romanticism, her memory/rationalization issues, Joffrey being drunk, Joffrey just acting out a more aggressive form of similar behavior we've seen from nobles regarding the smallfolk, etc. In retrospect, it may have been better had Sansa taken up a distrust of Cersei from this incident (which would be more realistic), but still making up excuses for Joffrey as being better than his parents. Later on, she then goes to Joffrey to ask for intervention from being shipped away instead of Cersei, which might scan better to readers as asking your romantic hero to stop the two of you being separated instead of going to your Father's "Boss" to ask her to make your father do what you want.
  10. Lluewhyn

    Sansa's betrayal consequences partly overestimated?

    Without Sansa's life at risk, it's much less likely that Ned folds to Varys's pressure to confess and join the Black. That is explicitly the reason Ned eventually acquiesces, and it's uncertain about whether Varys could/would successfully lie to Ned about Sansa being captured (he's essentially lying to Ned about Sansa's risk of death, but he doesn't lie about Arya for whatever reason, maybe to avoid showing his true colors to the reader). It's only a short while later that Jaime is captured, and Ned goes from a "Hostage too valuable to execute" to "Holy crap, we need to keep this hostage alive for an exchange". Without Ned up there on stage confessing, there's less of an opportunity for Joffrey to play to the crowd (or be manipulated into it by Littlefinger, if you believe that theory), and significantly more ability for Cersei, Varys, etc. to circumvent a Joffrey order for his death. If Sansa and Arya escape on a ship, they are returning to Winterfell. Whether they are there or not for Theon's capture (or have any ability to change events there) depends upon a lot of factors, especially whether they are then further betrothed to solidify war alliances.
  11. Hard to say, because so much of their personalities were shaped by their experiences. If Dany was the older one, she might not have the same drive to "reclaim her birthright" that Viserys did, especially since that means she'll be subservient in status to her baby brother. In OTL, Dany was pretty apathetic towards returning to Westeros until a specific chain of events pushes her that way. If Dany is 20-something, why is she going to go along with a plan to marry Khal Drogo without an older brother forcing her? If not, would Illyrio really give her the dragon eggs?
  12. Lluewhyn

    Did Ramsay actually geld Theon?

    That could just be Ramsay toying with Theon, but there's also the part where Theon is with one of the washer-women: " He wanted to hit her, to smash that mocking smile off her face. He wanted to kiss her, to fuck her right there on the table and make her cry his name. But he knew he dare not touch her, in anger or in lust. Reek, Reek, my name is Reek. I must not forget my name. He jerked to his feet and made his way wordlessly to the doors, limping on his maimed feet." That's an odd thought to have. He won't touch her because he's afraid of the consequences, but doesn't say anything about the obvious "I don't have the equipment".
  13. Lluewhyn

    Euron will commit Dany's treason for blood.

    The treason for blood is fairly well-established and understood by Dany as Mirri Maz Duur. To have a new treason for blood, it would have to be something so heinous that Mirri killing Dany's child in her womb along with using loophole abuse to revive her husband as a vegetable would have to be considered "not that bad in comparison". I don't see that happening. To rephrase that, while there may be multiple technical treasons of each type (probably several for gold), there's going to be one over-riding one that's going to stand out and make the others seem inconsequential. I don't think that's possible with Mirri's "treason". (and regardless of whether the reader thinks Mirri was committing treason, Daenerys does, which is what's important).
  14. The eternal question. Some were supporting Rhaegar rather than Aerys, some were jockeying for favors (the best way to get new lands and titles is to be on the winning side of a war), and who knows about the rest.
  15. I'll agree to this. Plus Robb sending Theon to Pyke and Edmure leading his forces against Tywin at the fords, since they were both strongly advised to NOT do these things (by the same person), and these acts had strong repercussions for many people down the line. Of course, the series is rife with examples of people making mistakes that were completely in-character that seemed like good ideas to them at the time, such as virtually everything Cersei does in AFFC.
  16. Lluewhyn

    Did Ramsay actually geld Theon?

    After reading F&B and seeing how often a situation has multiple explanations for what may have happened (see Why did Criston Cole turn on Rhaenyra?), I've decided that GRRM likes to use a device called "Schrodinger's Storytelling", where all outcomes are possible until he definitively picks one to go with. Sometimes he just leaves it unanswered, such as "Who told on Arianne?" or "Did Raynald Westerling die at the Red Wedding?" might turn out to be. I guess we'll find out in the next book or two. Or we won't, if Theon dies before such a revelation. I do agree with you that it seems strange that GRRM goes out of his way to include all of these hints that Theon was castrated, and then deliberately throws in a line or two that flat-out contradict that.
  17. Lluewhyn

    Civilians as combatants

    Aren't most of the (non-Knight/Freerider/etc.) soldiers in the armies conscripted smallfolk? Wasn't that part of the discussion of the Broken Man?
  18. Lluewhyn

    Why couldn't Robb send a team to retrieve Sansa?

    The only way Tyrion was able to attempt a rescue was through the decoy of an Envoy, a trick that appalled Robb's army and was a violation of the rules of war. Without it, he would have had no luck trying to get men close to Jaime. Robb doesn't have the men who have sufficient experience with King's Landing, either the physical layout or the people involved to be sneaking around. Littlefinger was successful because he was intimately familiar with both aspects of KL. It's possible Robb could have sent several skilled men to pretend to be peasants, sneak past Harrenhal without being captured by Tywin's outriders, and make their way to KL. Then what? How are they going to sneak around the Red Keep without being noticed, especially not knowing their way around? Even if they got to Sansa (and they have every reason to believe she's being guarded well), how will they get her back out?
  19. Lluewhyn

    Gender relations in Westeros

    That's a major theme of Cersei's story. Look at what an awful person she is, and yet, look at all of the horrible things that have been done to her simply because of her gender. They aren't the cause of her villainy, or a response to it, they're just independent injustices occurring to her because she's a woman. This is a woman who murdered her friend over a petty jealousy, plotted to murder her husband, is responsible for thousands of deaths through her own vanity and desire for power, and yet she is tortured and publicly shamed for the crime of having had sex outside of marriage after her husband died.
  20. Lluewhyn

    George Martin and scale

    Interesting topic. When reading the Wildling Battle at the Wall sections I always roll my eyes at the crude Wildling bows sending arrows 700' up. Bows don't typically fire arrows 700' horizontally, and that's with the advantage of an arc. Firing them straight up kind of has gravity working against you. I can imagine you could probably easily catch any arrows out of the air that made it up that far. The Eyrie was also another interesting case. Yeah, it's pretty impenetrable, but what good are any units stationed there if they have to spend several days trying to get out of the castle structure, through precarious mountain passes? I can just imagine the Vale being invaded while their leaders are too busy holed up to protect their territory.
  21. Lluewhyn

    The Tyrion of Fevre Dream (spoiler)

    Never read Fevre Dream, but I read Dying of the Light. There's a fairly clear proto-Littlefinger in the story named Arkin Ruark, who is manipulating several groups against each other so he can try to get the woman he's in love with. The main protagonist Dirk t'Larien doesn't really have an ASOIAF equivalent, but he reminds me of Pate (not the Pig Boy), mostly because he's so pathetic. Maybe a much less violent Theon from ACOK who drives the narrative by screwing things up for those who were nice to him.
  22. Lluewhyn

    Who killed Jon Arryn?

    Yep. Persuading Lysa to 1. Kill her husband. 2. Pin it on the Lannisters, is pretty much responsible for the war. In fact, there's little benefit to Littlefinger killing Jon Arryn OTHER than the fact that he can blame it on the Lannisters to start conflict between them and the Starks.
  23. Lluewhyn

    Who killed Jon Arryn?

    " It is still possible that Gregor killed Hugh without being prompted to do so, but there could be much more to this whole thing. " I think this is one of the less "smooth" contrivances done in the series. It's meant to come across as deliberate in AGOT, but later events don't indicate that Cersei ordered Gregor to do this (it never comes up in conversation or her thoughts), and Sandor gives sufficient justification that Gregor saw an opportunity to kill the guy and win the match, and so that's what he did.
  24. Lluewhyn

    Tyrek Lannister's personality?

    Is the goal of this question to ponder whether Tyrek fled on his own rather than being kidnapped?
  25. Lluewhyn

    Could this be Tyrek? Or do you have another idea?

    Tyrek is one of those plotlines that makes me curious where GRRM was going. It would be easier to think he had an idea in ACOK but changed his mind later, but Tyrek gets brought up several times over the next few books. There's the theory that Varys will "use" Tyrek somehow to discredit the Lannisters, but I'm not sure how it's going to work in practice, especially since there's no need to additionally discredit the Lannisters in the event of a Targaryen restoration. GRRM killing Tyrek off this way to close the plotline seems very anti-climactic and unsatisfying though. I think it would be better to leave the disappearance unexplained in this case.