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Thomaerys Velaryon

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  1. @Lord Varys The family tree already takes into account Alyssa's brothers. As for her cousins, like you mentioned we don't know to which degree they are related, so we can't say for sure if Aethan and Corlys had other brother(s). Though I agree first cousins are more likely given that they were forced to come to the wedding and pay homage to Maegor. Until we know more, I wouldn't change the family tree. We lack other information concerning the relations of the Velaryons of this era: Valaena: Was she the sister of the first Daemon ? Lianna and Larissa: Both of them are said to be Rhaena Targaryen's cousins but only Lianna is said to be the niece of the second Daemon. Therefore Lianna was the daughter of one of Alyssa and second Daemon's unknown brother(s). Was Larissa a niece to the second Daemon too ? We know the second Daemon had at least four daughters, maybe Larissa was one of them ? Corwyn: Was he Corlys's father ?
  2. @Lord Varys I'm a bit bummed if the Targaryen lineage presented in TWOIAF turns out to be incomplete but then again it already is given the Fire & Blood retcon about Jaehaerys I's children. Adding new Targaryen children/marriages to the canon to better fit the story would make sense. The candidates for a new marriages I agree with: Daenaera Velaryon is too beautiful and young to not have suitors after Aegon III's death. Deana the Defiant could marry an important lord in the 180s AC and slowly gaining power behind the scenes for her son prior to the First Blackfyre Rebellion. Aegon IV was a widower for the last 5 years of his life. Obviously he had his mistresses, but I think someone like Aegon would like to have a wife of his choosing in the end. Plus given how corrupt the court was during his reign, I doubt the execution of Lord Bracken was enough to prevent ambitious lords to try to have Aegon marry their daughters after Naerys' death. Aelinor Penrose's marriage to Aerys I was rumored to not have been consummated. I think people would be interested in marrying the "untouched" King's widow, especially since she had some Targaryen blood herself. Maekar I outlived Dyanna Dayne for more than 20 years. It would make sense for him to remarry but I can see GRRM deciding not to and thus creating a parallel with Tywin Lannister (who should have remarry after Joanna's death).
  3. @Hug-hammer If you want to go meta about that ship, then I would rather argue it was called "Gay Abandon" because Aegon was never the same after that day and didn't felt joy anymore. No joy = gay abandon.
  4. @Hug-hammer I disagree completely. Hints of Aegon III being gay in Fire and Blood ? Where ? If you are refering to him being close to Gaemon Palehair, may I remind you we are talking about a severly traumatized 10 year old boy who just lost pretty much his entire family. Then a boy who remind him of his lost younger brother shows up, of course Aegon would play with him and like his company, that doesn’t make him gay. Also, Daenaera was 6 when they married it seems normal to me Aegon waited before having sex with her. About Aegon’s daughters not contesting Viserys II’s ascension to the throne, well Daena the Defiant did! She simply did not have enough political power after her time in the Maidenvault to succeed.
  5. The way I understand it, GRRM did not have a complete Targaryen family tree until he worked on The World of Ice and Fire (published in 2014). Until then we had disjoint information about the Targaryens of the past but nothing concret to link them all. I stumbled on two sentences in the books published before TWOIAF and I was wondering how/if we can reconcile them with the current canon established in TWOIAF (the retcon for Jaehaerys I's children from Fire & Blood does not matter here). First, this line from A Clash of Kings, Catelyn II (published in 1999): In the current canon the blood ties between Baratheon and Targaryen includes: Lord Orys Baratheon was half-brother to the Conqueror trio. Lord Rogar Baratheon married Alyssa Velaryon, the widow of King Aenys I Targaryen. Jocelyn Baratheon married her half-nephew Prince Aemon Targaryen. One of the Four Storms, the daughters of Lord Borros Baratheon, was briefly betrothed to Prince Aemond Targaryen. Unnamed daughter of Lord Lyonel Baratheon was briefly betrothed to Prince Duncan Targaryen. Lord Ormund Baratheon married Princess Rhaelle Targaryen. I know Renly was probably not the best when it comes to historical accuracy but when it comes to his own House and the royal House one would assume he knows what he is talking about. Could GRRM produce other Baratheon-Targaryen weddings in the future ? Vaella, Maegor, Daella, and Rhae are available. Or one of Elaena Targaryen's Penrose children marrying their Baratheon overlord perhaps ? Second, this line from The Hedge Knight (published in 1998): When we realize Daeron's father was King Aegon IV Targaryen, the most prolific progenitor in the entire Targaryen family tree (bastards included), this line makes absolutely no sense. Sure in the end Aegon IV only had Daeron and Daenerys as trueborn children but I wouldn't call that a line that "almost died out". Also even if Viserys II/Aegon IV's legitimate line were to be completely gone, Elaena and her multiple children were around as well as the Velaryon and Hightower children of Baela and Rhaena Targaryen. Do you guys have an idea how to reconcile the existing canon and those quotes ? @Lord Varys @Rhaenys_Targaryen @The Wondering Wolf @Nittanian @Potsk @Ran @The Dragon Demands @The Grey Wolf
  6. Basically you want to do the same as it has already been done for the Houses of Westeros but for names and locations instead ?
  7. There is a growing number of Houses we know hardly anything (heraldry, the region they are from, ...). If given the occassion, it would be nice to clarify those information because in the wiki we have tendance to create a minor House everytime some random Westerosi knight has a surname. The recent casting of Criston Cole for House of the Dragon has shed some light on the situation as George himself presents the character as being common-born and not a minor noble as we previously thought. I know book canon and show canon are two different things but if the information comes from George, it adds some considerable weight for it to be true in the books as well.
  8. @Ran I was wondering if Lyonel Bentley's name might not have a typo and he was actually a member of House Bettley instead.
  9. It seems like the events following Aemma's death were rather quick. I think Viserys' decision to name his daughter Rhaenyra as the Princess of Dragonstone and the all swearing oath situation on top of that was made by Viserys on a whim to fuck with Daemon after Viserys heard of Daemon's mocking joke (Baelon "Heir for a Day") while Viserys was morning his wife and child. Queen Aemma had problem giving Viserys an heir (one healthy daughter, several miscarriages, and Baelon who died quickly) and her own mother (Princess Daella Targaryen) died during childbirth, it would not be difficult for a learned men like Otto to foresee that Aemma would probably die in childbed. So him putting his daughter close to Viserys in advance in order to propose a marriage quickly after the end of the mourning period is not out of the question. When it comes to Rhaenyra, I think Otto probably saw the Great Council of 101 AC as a precedent against a daughter inheriting any way so he wasn't too worried and didn't see Rhaenyra as an big obstacle in his plans. He could use her to make sure his biggest ennemi at court at the time (Daemon Targaryen) would not become king after Viserys' death. Otto's plan worked well until Viserys made his rash decision and the oaths were probably a blindside for Otto, who in turn had to work harder to assure Alicent would be Viserys' next queen.
  10. I remembered there was also something along those lines but I wasn't sure. So yeah the series starting in ... * 103 AC: Jaehaerys' death/Viserys' coronation. * 104 AC: "status" quo as you put it. * or 105 AC: Aemma Arryn's death, Ryam Redwyne's death/Harrold Westerling becomes Lord Commander, the Strongs arrive at court/Lyonel Strong is made Master of laws, 8-year-old Rhaenyra is appointed Princess of Dragonstone and Viserys makes the great lords swear to defend her right of succession. ... is likely in my opinion.
  11. Should the wiki have an article for the Great Code of Septon Barth and the Books of Law ? Or should it rather be mentioned in the "Laws and justice of the Seven Kingdoms" article ? Also how do you interpret this passage ? I interpret it as the "Books of Law" is a collection of books made by Jaehaerys and his "smaller council". Each book concerns a topic of law different and the "Great Code" is one of/the biggest book of the collection (possibly the most important one). Do you guys agree ?
  12. According to the casting information we have, Criston Cole is not in the Kingsguard yet and they are casting for Ser Harrold Westerling (the Kingsguard who died in 112 AC and was replaced by Criston). So at the very least the series will start in 112 AC.
  13. @Diogo Targaryen I fixed Aenys and Perianne's birth calculations.
  14. @Lord Varys I don't know how much they want to develop/show us of the political intrigue at court and Daemon's War in the Stepstones, but they can easily add Rhaenys in either one of those storyline. I'd prefer to see Rhaenys at King's Landing/Dragonstone/Driftmark as a mentor of sort for Rhaenyra while her husband and Daemon are away "playing at war". Maybe having Rhaenys/Meleys participate in one battle alongside Daemon/Caraxes could be a good way to show us her abilities, so we are more invest in her character when she dies during the Battle of Rook's Rest.
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