Rose of Red Lake

I dont know but in the show she was corrupted by power and didn't care about those people. Sapochnik said something that made sense to explain it - "She feels empty, it wasn't what she thought it was, it's not enough." And yes, Dany is never satisfied in the books, "That should be enough for any woman . . . but not for the dragon." She also decided to go to war simply because she didn't like Meerenese food, clothing, or housing, which is nothing really (she doesn't mention slavery at all as a reason to choose "fire and blood"). So in the show it's probably that she didn't want a bloodless victory, she wanted to inflict pain and make people pay, just like she did on the Plaza of Punishment and with the wineseller's daughters in the books. Because teaching people the dragon's power feels good to her. And if "it wasn't what she thought it was," then she had decided Westeros wasn't home. They weren't "her" people or even innocents, it was just another place to smash, just like the Dothraki did in Essos. I dont know, it just lines up for me more so than accidents or blood magic.

Right. To make this more consistent with the theme of Sansa as a dangerous madwoman, Book!Sansa should have stared in fascination as Joff strangled to death and belittled him. "He was no true lion, strangling cannot kill a lion." And of course this couldn't just be an isolated incident. Sansa's default state would be to solve everything with violence, from here on out. No but for real, this was a D&D scene so the actors can "shine." It shouldn't stop your ability to see the book themes already in place. A Sansa vs. Dany juxtaposition exists in the books. True empathy is helping your captors/enemies, like Sansa helped Lancel when he was wounded. Or people who don't worship her as a new leader, like Dontos. Most of the time, when Dany helps someone, there is another component. She also gets power (a slave army), or she gets to assuage her own guilt (the price of the throne, staying in Meereen), or she expects them to be on her side (obligations). Dany's challenge is to have empathy for her enemies and help people without any other obligations. Sansa has shown she can do that. They are mainly foils, with a few similarities here in there. We'll see how Jon reacts to killing the assassins. My guess is that he'll feel a weight, and won't enjoy it. In the show, he tells Sansa he hanged a boy as young as Bran. He acted that scene like he was disgusted and said he was done killing. Later, he's questioning his actions even when he kills a mass murderer and is still unsure if it's the right thing. Also a juxtaposition to Dany. In the books, even when she was disturbed by the people she crucified, she whisks it away! If Dany had killed Jon she'd be like "he was no true dragon." And the bloodthirsty people would have cheered. Those people don't want fiction that challenges their base emotions, they just want blood.

Interested in Nymeria because I like her refugee story and I hope we get to see water magic vs. fire magic. Action scenes of Nymeria herself or her water witches drowning a few Valyrians to protect Ny Sar would be cool. Too bad they left that book scene out with Tyrion in the show, it could have connected. We'll also see Valyrians being absolute shit heads. Flea Bottom also sounds interesting. They could humanize the people of city Dany destroyed.

I will cackle if Cersei/Jaime are the only ship that gets romantic overtures at the very end. Rooting for them just because it's fun and their relationship is iconic to the series. I even recognize some fanfic overtones. Right now Jaime is in the part of the fic where he's seething with jealousy that his girl is with someone else. Refuses to rush to her aid out of angst. But no biggie, she ends up saving herself. ...only to rush to her aid when she really needs it and she thinks he'll never come for her. Here for it!

The promised hero was a dragon burning everyone. That was Tolkien's twist.

"If they are monsters, so am I."

I'm just disagreeing with you, I'm not looking for a fight. Chill.

That's funny, I see it completely the opposite. I think the "3 heads" riding dragons is too literal. Aegon being successful to gain people's support without dragons is an interesting contrast to Dany. But also, I think he is a piece. He is being used by Illyrio and Varys.

Or he himself is the "dragon" who moved out too soon and loses.

Not "fake" yet but he has suspicions about the whole plot. This post summarizes some of that, where Tyrion doesn't think Illyrio's story adds up. "Maybe he is a Targaryen after all" implies he has doubts which I think will continue to build. I don't think he will share those with Dany though.

Tyrion could just tell her his suspicions as well but.... I think he's going to suppress that, to encourage an alliance. He's not going to want them to come to blows.

There are several scenes that suggest some kind of evaluation on Dany's part. She did respond with skepticism when Brown Ben said he had a drop of Valyrian blood. She was evaluating his looks. Later she thought he could be trusted because her dragons liked him, and that turned out to be false. She also "tested" Quentyn when he said he has Targaryen blood by taking him to see the dragons, and she emphasized the need for a rider, which planted the seed in his head that he needed to tame one. She apparently didn't see anything "special" in him, which was a mistake. Also I wonder if Quentyn and Brown Ben have about the same percentage of "dragon blood?" This could be about the same % as Aegon, if he is Serra's son. Their descendents seem pretty remote. I put "dragon blood" in quotes because I don't think it's blood that matters, I think it's a bond. Like horse riding as GRRM says, i.e. combination of how the dragon feels that day, confidence, and a psychic/mental link. It seems much more ambiguous than just "Chromosome-68" or whatever. And anyway, it's more fitting for the message of the series if blood doesn't matter. If the dragons like him, Dany could still mistrust him as she learned from Brown Ben. If he is Rhaegar's son but he fails to bond because they're irritated that day or he's not found the link yet, it would be ironic if she eliminated him from the board. I see a ton of ironies coming with this plot. Either way she will probably put way too much emphasis on the dragon reactions, which are ambiguous. Just because Quentyn got burned doesn't mean he was useless. He would have brought her the most stubborn of the kingdoms, and now she's not going to get it.

I think that anger and sourness shows how much depth is put into it. They have complexity but stand by each other. It's hard to find that with the female characters. Instead of Lysa and Cat, Brienne and Cat are more interesting but it's so short lived. Isn't that more mother/daughter in the books? For Arya who has never had women friends I guess this is good. They seem like a collection of side characters, that feel more like acquaintences.

I agree 100%. This is why have no problem if Jaime ends up dumping Brienne, Dany's journey is pointless, Jon's adopted family matters more than his birth parents, Jon doesn't get to play a big role in the final battle - I mean, all of this is real life. No grand destiny, no guarantee of a "satisfying ending," no dignified deaths, no meaning for someone's journey. GRRM point blank said that he doesn't write comfort fiction as a warning to readers looking for escapism, and yet theories continue to be nice, comfortable, and escapist.

Tolkien has strong women but they don't veer into dangerous moral territory. It's somewhat of a pedestal effect, but not annoyingly so. I like how GRRM doesnt portray women as morally good just because they are women. He doesn't handle women with kid gloves, and that's pretty feminist in my view. I liked how the risk of power corruption can be universal, and how some women in a fantasy medieval society who want to be on top will have to be just as violent, or in some cases, even more ruthless than men. But still, other women can rise only by their wits. I think GRRM implied one time, that he can get away with writing some women as awful, because he has so many diverse female characters, it will protect him from accusations of sexism. We have to get the ending first to see if that's true. I don't think it's D&D's fault if people only associate Dany's ending with a be-all, end-all statement on "feminism." It's not their fault if audiences fail to appreciate Brienne, Sansa, Cat, and Cersei's characters. Some criticism of the show ending seems to come from a shallow liberal white feminist lens, i.e. to only focus on gender at the expense of disability, or to only focus on "women at the top." Bran's achievement is just as important as a woman's. At the same time, just because a woman is in charge doesn't necessarily mean things are great. I guess I'm an intersectional feminist and maybe GRRM is too? The main thing GRRM needs to work on is female friendships. He loves writing about these for men, building scenes and plots around bro bonding and all that, but women have scaps. Sansa had Jeyne, and he separated them early on. Arianne and the Sand Snakes don't feel as fleshed out as say, Ned and Robert or Jon and Sam.